August 30, 2015 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #1099300
1. who do you trust? besdies “literally thousands of parents” At any rate I’m missing something So the CDC spends money researching then fakes the data to make it seem like they work then spends money administering them all the while knowing that they dont work and are secretly spreading autism. Why?
2. There are increasing autism cases. I dont know why though there is more of a chance that the increase in blogs are to blame. IT makes as much biological sense as vaccines and there is no data proving otherwise.
3. Without any doubt! As has been explained autism generally turns out around age 2 this is the same age as when MR is given. I have a cousins cousin who wants to ban ice cream cones since the day her cousins friend drowned they all had gotten ice cream. coincidence?
“How does that jive with all your statistics? “
It jives quite well both are expected to occur at the same age.
Though I would absolutely love to hear how in a matter of hours vaccines affect “cellular health” and change the child forever, and they notice it that same day! Quite striking. Could you wal me through the mechanism please?
3. “as much as possible until child immunity strengthens, “
what age is that?
” and then space out as much as possible”
Also been studied, not that you care
“nd then go through some type of detoxication program afterwards to lessen the harm from all the foreign substances “
“and then daven their brains out that no harm comes to them.”
always a good idea
5. The first paragraph is absolute mumbo jumbo. Some diseases you can sort of argue your case but not most. At any rate why cant the kidneys filter these “toxins”? and what are they? Why cant we find them?
“(which admittedly i still don’t understand and haven’t researched properly….)”
A fairly easy to read book is “how the immune system works” by Lauren somparayec its less than 150 pages you cna get a slightly older edition on amazon for less than $10. Though I should warn you it is based on real science not “toxins”
“(btw, you can thank quacks like me for getting the mercury out of vaccines”
No thanks! It has been proven safe, and in spite of being removed dishonest quacks like you are still putting lives at risk!
“All the money is in alleopathy which resorts to chemical medicines to solve all issues”
Wrong as usual! Guess what the first line therapy is for (mild) hypertension or prediabetes?
The money is where the research leads us. If exercise cures cancer then exercise if chemo does then chemo.
5. Again, i speak as a person directly related to a family of doctors and nurses
Maybe they arent very good doctors? Like the quack in the previous thread who you quoted saying he “doesnt know anything about health” or something to that extent.August 30, 2015 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #1099301
stam: Many perfectly healthy people get AIDS. That’s certainly a virus. Ebola is still very lethal to healthy people (though more lethal to less healthy people). Your theory doesn’t line up.August 30, 2015 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #1099302
The govt. recently banned transfat. According to reports you would think they had our best interests in mind….right ? What people didn’t read is that they were sued to prove that it is safe by a certain doctor. And they ignored the suit for five years until they couldn’t push off anymore and they made it as if all of a sudden they discovered that is not safe. Obviously, all the food companies were not too happy about this decision. You cannot trust the govt. for anything except to raise your taxes. They only have their own interests in mind. Google the graphs yourself and you will see the sites that show the graphs falling even before 1940 etc…..August 30, 2015 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #1099303
“That’s certainly a virus. “
actually Sam2 Theres a whole school of “thought” that denies that AIDS is caused by a virus, theres a wikipedia page on them. So AIDS may in fact be caused by magical toxinsAugust 30, 2015 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #1099304
…lolwut?August 30, 2015 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #1099305squeakParticipant
I believe the stat about babies not vaccinated developing faster than vaccinated babies, but it doesn’t prove that vaccines slow development. It is simply because the parents who do not vaccinate are so much smarter and superior in every way to other parents, and that superiority naturally manifests in their offspring.August 30, 2015 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #1099306
Wow. I checked the wikipedia page. Lots of people blame AIDS on… vaccines. Sometimes you just can’t make this stuff up…August 30, 2015 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #1099307
Lol squeakAugust 30, 2015 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #1099308
Stam, as far as those graphs, there was a huge outbreak in the early fifties, so the downward trend toward the typical 20,000 cases per year would be expected, but it very quickly approached zero, which didn’t happen with other diseases until those vaccines were distributed.August 30, 2015 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1099309
Stam -“Perhaps i’m wrong but i remember reading that there is no vaccine for scarlet fever but somehow that was eradicated”
Funny, I once came down with Scarlet Fever. So how come you claim it was eradicated? B’H nowadays we have antibiotics to treat it.
It’s unfortunate that people can post anonymously on the internet, because anyone can post anything and the gullible people will believe there is some validity to it!August 30, 2015 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1099310
stam a deya,
Do you believe that it would be best if everyone in society stopped vaccinating healthy children? Why?
[The] question is very penetrating and I cannot honestly answer.
Why can you not honestly answer, stam a daya? Based on your arguments, isn’t it very obvious to you that it should be recommended that all healthy children in the world should not be vaccinated?
Why is this not obvious – and why do you say you cannot answer?August 30, 2015 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #1099311
1. Google Dr. Terry Wahls tedex video. I literally changed my entire lifestyle after watching this short video (which went viral even though not very professional). My journey into health started from her….I don’t even know what she holds of vaccines but she is a medical doctor who had MS and cured herself. It’s breathtaking.
2. The govt. are a bunch of crooks. Period. They are simply puppets of big pharma and the food companies etc…How can you trust them for anything. Do you trust Nadler the rasha that he really has the best interest of Israel at heart or his political carreer? You can’t be so naive.
3. The autism theory (i think) is because of the mercury that was originally in them. Now that i think most is banned, it will be interesting to see if autism rates goes down…..not all kids can excrete the heavy metals….
4. If someone squirts a couple of ounces of mercury in their vein, you better believe that you will be suffocating the cells. In fact, it would be a perfect time to say viduy….when the mercury gets lodged in the brain cells, who knows what could happen…..
5. When i said “how does that jive with statistics” i wasn’t talking about the same age, but rather THE SAME DAY !
6. can’t answer what age etc….would probably follow Dr. Eilenberg’s recommendation. he is a yid who understands both sides with loads of experience….
7. The kidneys cannot filter everything nor can the liver. The vilna gaon writes about how all disease comes from over eating (that was before the 75,000 chemicals introduced into food chain) and he said you have to sweat it out to take out all toxins. The kidneys cannot do everything…..
8. You mention hypertension….I put a friend on my “diet” and whollaa, he is off medication. I have another friend who suffered from migraines for 10 years…..Not one doctor NOT ONE discussed his diet and exercise. I sat down with him for an hour and he feels so much better…..the list goes on and on….you can stick with your doctors and when you hit 60 look forward to a life of drugs and surgery, hospitals and nursing homes or research natural health and live on average 16 years longer and live to a ripe old age.August 30, 2015 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1099312
I wrote “perhaps i am wrong” ….you know why? because i was not sure if it was scarlet fever or something else….and guess what? I was obviously wrong.August 30, 2015 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #1099313
You obviously didn’t read my other posts to ubiquiten.August 30, 2015 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1099314
stam a deya,
It’s unclear from your responses. Please briefly explain why you think that, maybe, perhaps, it is better to recommend that healthy children get vaccinated. You said you were unsure. So you were debating in your mind which is better –
1. Recommend all healthy children in the world to get vaccinated
2. Recommend all healthy children in the world not to get vaccinated
Obviously you see valid points to both sides, but you cannot decide which side is stronger.
Just to make it simple, please explain to us what points came to your mind that it would not be a good idea to tell all the hundreds of millions of healthy children in the world to not vaccinate and rather what points came to your mind in favor of recommending that the hundreds of millions of healthy children in the world should vaccinate.August 31, 2015 12:03 am at 12:03 am #1099315
On the one end there is a possibility of all the diseases to come back but on the other hand your are opening them up to a host of other diseases….don’t understand enough to pasken. I wonder what Dr. Eilenberg would say to such a question….August 31, 2015 12:30 am at 12:30 am #1099316zahavasdadParticipant
Who really cares what one lone doctor in Lakewood says, You dont ask a normal doctor about these things, you ask the “Gedolim” of the medical worldAugust 31, 2015 12:53 am at 12:53 am #1099317Matan1Participant
stam, can you name one peer reviewed article that supports your “cellular health” hypothesis?August 31, 2015 1:03 am at 1:03 am #1099318
I cannot attest as wether what is being ascribed to Dr. Eilenberg is what he says. However, he is not “stam” a doctor in Lakewood, he is one of the formost pediatricians around. This was told to me by a highly regarded, well known medical referral organization.
We had a question with one of our children and we were told that he is the first person to see, he is better and more experienced and knowledgeable than even the specialists in the specific issue we needed information about.
He has a tremendous amount of experience, he keeps up on current research and talks to and listens to his patients so he knows what’s going on with his patients.
Not to knock Dr Schanik, who is also a special person, but he spends very little time with his patients. A very different approach from Dr Eilenberg.
Bottom line, Dr Eilinberg is not just a doctor, he is one of the gedolim of pediatrics.August 31, 2015 1:08 am at 1:08 am #1099319
On the one end there is a possibility of all the diseases to come back
This would be diseases like smallpox, polio, whooping cough, tuberculosis, measles, etc., that used to kill millions, that universal vaccinations have saved millions and millions of lives.
You agree about that, correct?
but on the other hand your are opening them up to a host of other diseases.
Do the vaccinations kill millions? If not, isn’t it better to save millions of lives with universal vaccinations than to save much less lives without universal vaccinations?August 31, 2015 1:31 am at 1:31 am #1099320
i feel like these conversations will go in circles forever regardless of how much sound evidence is presented. i think that there is a good chance that all the studies are fake, there is a good chance that the government lies and steals your money, and there is a good chance that there are people who get very sick from vaccines. I think the rest of it is just nuts. Here are a few points that I need to spit out:
my kids were vaccinated and almost all of them walked before 12 months. 2 walked before 9 months. three got sick all the time as infants and never again for the next 15-20 years, two are always sick. I work with children with developmental delays and i can assure you there is no such pattern in my daled amos. I myself had shingles as an infant so I was not vaccinated with the MMR until i gave birth.
regarding autism: you are mixing apples and rubiks cubes. Whether or not a vaccine is healthy or not healthy is completely separate from whether or not it is the cause of autism. Pick your fight and stick to it. 30 years ago symptoms of autism would appear shortly after the child turned 18 months old. this was also the time that the child received certain shots. I think that made the vaccines an easy target. But you know what? It ain’t the case anymore. These kids now show signs of autism (and I have seen it myself) within the first months of birth. BEFORE they would even get immunized. But i will tell you that there is a HUGE number of parents who are in denial about their children’s development, especially in regards to autism, so maybe vaccines cause denial. Or vaccines allow a parent to find a place to rest their denial.
The funny thing (tho it is hardly funny) is that of the 100’s of parents of autistic children I have worked with, almost all laugh in the face of this vaccine idea. They think it is a joke. Many believe that autism is caused by Gd! of all crazy things, right? and many see it correlate to food allergies. I have to say that food allergies is the strongest option i have seen as a possible contributor.
If you don’t want to vaccinate your children, that’s fine. but be sure to keep them away from the elderly and people on immunosupressants and chemo AT ALL TIMES. your child is a loaded gun. And you mentioned before that it isn’t valid to compromise your child’s health for the greater society (forgot how you worded it)well good for you. But don’t you dare compromise the health of the greater society for your child.August 31, 2015 1:33 am at 1:33 am #1099321
and thank you zdad for bringin up my last pet peeve. How in the world is the opinion of ONE doctor in ONE city (tho a very remarkable one at that)supposed to be an indicator for the entire world?! (and I am trying not to make any east coast is not the center of the universe comments)August 31, 2015 1:54 am at 1:54 am #1099322
What Dr. Eilenberg says is pretty relevant considering the issue is a letter sent to Lakewood chadarim.
(Not as relevant in the greater scheme of things.)
NDG, would you like to compare how many patients Dr. Shanik has seen in his life with how many seen by Dr. Eilenberg?
The bottom line, though, is what Syag said, that who gets autism (as well as all conditions and diseases l”a) is decided by the RBS”O. We need to do our normal hishtadlus, but bucking the widely conventional medical wisdom based on anecdotes and conspiracy theories is not normal hishtadlus.August 31, 2015 1:59 am at 1:59 am #1099323
stam a deya,
So what it all boils down to is that the anti-vaxxers admit that they do want universal immunizations to continue. Even you admit you won’t call for an end to universal immunizations because it will bring back diseases that have killed many many millions of people, and was stopped by vaccinations.
That much is obvious.
What the anti-vaxxers want is that almost everyone else should get vaccinated, so that they are protected from these killer diseases, but that they shouldn’t get vaccinated.August 31, 2015 2:01 am at 2:01 am #1099324
nisht – just saw your post now. I appreciate the qualification, I was aware that Dr. Eilenberg was chashuv but was not aware of his credentials. I still wonder, and I don’t profess to know, if his knowledge as a doctor is enough when we are specifically talking about population and numbers. Meaning, stam is quoting Dr. E’s remarks about the patients he serves, regardless of his stature, it is still a very specific and small population in relation to the entire world. Unless the Dr. was implying research he had done on this subject, and not just who he sees personally. But honestly, especially with all you have said about him, i don’t believe for a minute he said any of those statements above.August 31, 2015 2:02 am at 2:02 am #1099325
Nisht -“Not to knock Dr Schanik, who is also a special person, but he spends very little time with his patients. A very different approach from Dr Eilenberg.”
Btw, I used a different pediatrician than Shanik. He ain’t the only one!
“Bottom line, Dr Eilinberg is not just a doctor, he is one of the gedolim of pediatrics”
Prove it! Look he just came here from Flatbush. Idk whether he’s good or not. So tell me how many peer-reviewed articles did he publish?!?August 31, 2015 2:03 am at 2:03 am #1099326
Joseph, have you checked your blood to see if your vaccines are still effective? I would venture to say that most adults would require boosters etc but the overwhelming do not get. So why are we not all dying from all the dreaded diseases? With all the millions of illegals in America, why are they not all dying from polio etc.? My 20 year old daughter was checked and although she was vaccinated, NOTHING showed up in her blood…..except ofcourse the one vaccine we were smart not to give….chickenpox. For that she had 100% immunity!
Listen, i stated my case. All are free to do what’s right. I would suggest to others that if you are in the parsha of your kids getting vaccinated (b”h, i am not….) go on amazon and buy six books (three pro and three anti). atleast that way you will make an informed decision. It is not a simple one and anyone who says it is, does not begin to understand what’s at stake…..May Hashem protect us all.August 31, 2015 2:17 am at 2:17 am #1099327👑RebYidd23Participant
Gamanit posted that she is immune to all the diseases she was vaccinated against. Did she magically become immune?August 31, 2015 2:26 am at 2:26 am #1099328
after i gave birth to my first kid they checked my blood and noticed i did not show immunity to MMR. I was 28. they didn’t know i hadnt been vaccinated, they just noticed that i was showing immunity when they expected i should have. that was why they recommended it at that time. If nobody shows immunity, why were they expecting to see it?August 31, 2015 2:36 am at 2:36 am #1099329
Stam, what on earth are you talking about? That has nothing to do with my point. Nothing. All I said is that you and the other anti vaxxers effectively admitted that you want almost everyone else to vaccinate, so that you guys could avoid vaccinating. See above.August 31, 2015 3:16 am at 3:16 am #1099330
Joseph. I wrote i do not know enough to pasken. See above. All are free to do what they want. I understand if you do and understand if you don’t. What i don’t understand are those that do not educate themselves.August 31, 2015 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #1099331
He has not Just come to Lakewood, he is there for a number of years. And he practiced for many years in Flatbush. Children there are also children. I never asked what papers he has written, frankly that is irrelevant. How good he is was told to me by an organization that researches doctors. And I have trusted the lives of myself and family, literally, to both the advice of this organization and to Dr. Eilenberg.
Further to the point, I have never heard say not to vaccinate, he certainly never gave that advice to me for my family. Not does it sound like something he would say, based on on my experiences with him. I might believe that he would say that it is not insane for a parent to make such a decision.
Further, the reason I contrasted him to Dr Shanik is because he is mentioned earlier in this post about the matter.
One poster above referred to him as one Elderly doctor. Dr. Eilenberg is not elderly, in fact I would say he is a good number of years younger than Dr Shanik. He has been practicing for probably more than 30 years at this point.August 31, 2015 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1099332
stam Sorry for the delay
1. I’m not saying there is no role for eating healthy. In fact I said the exact opposite. I am saying that scientific evidence trumps anything including anecdotal stories and your theorois on “cellular health”
2. Whats Nadler got to do with anythin? And how did he further his career, he probably lost it! But this is waaaay off topic.
bottom line is what does the Government gain by spending money developing and adminstering vaccines? You have not answered this question.
3. The autism theory started that way. When evidence showed it was flawed and mercury was removed do you think the “theroy” went away? ITs like doomsday cults who predict the end of the world on a given day say 12/31/15. When the day passes do you think they admit they were wrong? Almost never, they double down and creativly reinterpret things. Make no mistake the anti-vaccine cult is no different. You blame mercury, it is removed do you change your mind? No you come up with new garbage.
Oh and with removal of mercury, autism rates are going up…
4. “If someone squirts a couple of ounces of mercury in their vein, you better believe that you will be suffocating the cells”
Doubtful, though i imagine it would cause a PE first.
Nobody is injecting ounces we are talkign about ppm. And that was in the past, now it is zero! (in most vacines)
5. YOu havent explained how the vaccines affect “cellular health” so quickly this is striking stuff
7. I dont know where th vilan gaon says that, but if it was true then it sint true now.
8. Thank you for proving my point. The first line treatment for mild htn is diet and excercise!August 31, 2015 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1099333
nishtdayngesheft – “And I have trusted the lives of myself and family, literally, to both the advice of this organization and to Dr. Eilenberg.
Further to the point, I have never heard say not to vaccinate, he certainly never gave that advice to me for my family. Not does it sound like something he would say, based on on my experiences with him. I might believe that he would say that it is not insane for a parent to make such a decision.”
So that’s Very Nice! What does this have to do with the topic of accepting kids who aren’t Vaxxed? There are people, including me, that believe to accept these kids will promote passing diseases on other kids, even ones that are Vaxxed!August 31, 2015 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #1099334frumnotyeshivishParticipant
What I don’t understand is this: when it comes to something like internet in the house, which at worst, may indirectly affect other children negatively, and the negative ramifications have not been objectively proven by any stretch, there it is okay to not accept a child, Indeed, to many, this is ideal. But when it comes to vaccines, which HAVE been objectively proven to everyone capable of objectivity, and does DIRECTLY affect other children, and unlike internet, there is no upside to anti-vaxers viewpoint, there all of a sudden we’re “denying children the right to attend Yeshiva”.
More like we’re denying Yeshiva children the right to have idiotic parents. Sounds good to me.August 31, 2015 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #1099335
Don’t worry about delay, i kept you waiting 6 months…. :))
1. Please watch Dr. Wahls video….she has advanced much since that video but it will give you an idea about cellular health. this is not a “theory”. This is basic medical facts about nutrition and how it effects the body. (The Rambam himself says that the expert doctor will change the diet of his patient before he administers drugs. Go tell that your doctor and you will draw a blank look on his face…..)
2. Nadler sold out the truth to further his career. No doubt he will be rewarded by his democratic bosses. But the dumbell didn’t realize that he will not have a job next time around. What the govt. gains is the following. I will put in steps:
a. Politician needs money to get reelected.
b. Big Pharm companies Merck etc.. make trillions of vaccines.
c. Big Pharm makes studies to prove safety of vaccines.
d. Big Pharm pays politician to push vaccine laws based on these studies.
Now, if you read the history, vaccine companies were getting sued for damages and were going out of business. Congress to the rescue! They set up a vaccine court independant of regular courts that doles out money for all damages thereby absolving the Big Pharm of ALL RESPONSIBILITY ! And who pays for this? There is a 75 cent surcharge on every vaccine shot to pay for the damage. Last i saw, I think there was $25,000,000,000 paid out (not including autism because of Wakefield).So basically, Big Pharm makes trillions on vaccines, causes damage to others, AND YOU PAY FOR IT WITH THIS SURCHARGE. I am definitely in the wrong business…..
3. I think I wrote in another post it will be interesting to see if autism goes away now that mercury was removed. But, I have heard that it was not removed totally. Not sure on that point.
4. Go read up on nutrition and how it effects the cells.
5. I wrote briefly, the philosophy of naturalist is not to ingest any type of chemical or anything foreign in our bodies since the body was not designed to recognize these substances. Therefore, for ex., i do not eat preservatives of any type, or any other 75,000 chemicals that are in the food chain which the holy govt. themselves admit that they were not tested and rely on the food companies themselves to test their safety (still feeling safe??). No doubt, all the cancers etc…is in big part due to our food. This includes all the different shampoos and creams etc…we shmear on our bodies all of this overburdens the kidneys and liver to detox. This includes mercury fillings in teeth. Think for a second. Mercury is the most toxic substance on earth and these brilliant Dentists are stuffing them literally inches away from our brains when there are much more safer alternatives (think money….) Everything we do is with this philosophy…That’s in a nutshell. Now comes along vaccines. Before we even entertain the benefits, you have to understand when there are dozens of chemicals and persevatives in these shots, we naturally shy away from them because we are loathe to put this stuff into our blood. Couple that with thousands upon thousands of testimonies from people who saw the effect first hand on their children and wholla ! The antivaccine people are born…..(Please keep in mind, that very few people think along these terms….i.e. Many children have died which were attributed to sids etc…and no one thinks about vaccines because they don’t understand dangers….not saying only because of vaccine but as a contributing factor….Therefore, there are probably much more incidences but they are simply not reported by doctors who say coincidence to everything.)
6. The Vilna Gaon says this on the possuk of ???? ???? ???? ??? which verifies the whole philosophy of naturalist vis a vis detoxification which doctors are clueless about. i would think twice about discounting the ???? of the Gaon as is known he knew every ???? in the world (An eye is called ??? because it has 70 layers etc….)btw, the rambam says very similar if that means anything to you…..(I don’t know your hashkofos…..)
7. On your point in #8 – did i say not like that?
P.S. At some point, i will have to stop because these post take up alot of time although i enjoy them. but i don’t want you to think i am running away…..I LOVE A GOOD FIGHT !!!!: )))August 31, 2015 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1099336
stam: Of course vaccines have side-effects. And in our lawsuit culture, companies are forced to protect themselves. So vaccine-makers, which are literally saving billions of lives, are forced to charge extra to protect themselves. Do you know what the Halachah would be Al Pi Torah? If someone is an expert in a field that people need (e.g. doctors), you can’t sue for damages if they make a mistake because the greater good dictates that they need to be able to do their jobs and not be scared of being sued.August 31, 2015 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #1099337
1. You are right it isnt a theory it is nothing.
“expert doctor will change the diet of his patient before he administers drugs. Go tell that your doctor and you will draw a blank look on his face…..)”
youve said that a few times it simply isnt true. Check any guideline on HTN or Diabetes first line treatment is diet and excercise. Ive said this 3 or four times already.
I’m curious do you beleive an infection can be cured with diet? cancer( though several can be somewhat prevented with diet)? an inherited enzyme defficincy like tay sachs?
2. He wont. He gave up his carreer for what eh beleives is thr truth. He may be wrong but this is a side topic.
OK So let me see if I have this right. Big Pharma develops vaccines they then pay the governemnt to push them. The governemnt pays to research them and adminster them, so how is the governemtn gaining?
Granted big pharma is gaining that I got, but the governemnt losses moeny on vaccines
3. There is absolutly no mercury in most vaccines (flu is an exception). Autism rates or going up, maybe we need more mercury…
4. Sure, though I dont have a lot of fake journals, can you reccomend any?
5. a lot of mumbo jumbo about philosphy. I care about real world data ie facts. Not philosophical pinings
6. Hashkafa is irrelevant. Can tay sachs be cured by diet? any enzyme defficncy?
7. “On your point in #8 – did i say not like that?”
Um yes many times!!!! eg your very last post expert doctor will change the diet of his patient before he administers drugs. Go tell that your doctor and you will draw a blank look on his face…..) http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/letter-from-rabbonim-that-schools-must-accept-non-vaccinated-children/page/3#post-580941
Do you even read what you write
“but i don’t want you to think i am running away…..”
you are, and whats upsetting is you are too dishonest to admit it. You said youd reconsdier if a study was done. I provided a study and now you say you will never change your mind. Man up and admit that you (and most of your ilk) are not interested in facts. Your mind is made up and nothing will change it (this last part you actually did admit to, so kudos for that).August 31, 2015 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1099338apushatayidParticipant
So, this letter from the 3 roshei yeshiva that started this thread. is it real? did ANYONE see it? did any of the roshei yeshiva corroborate the letter? did they acknowledge reading and or signing such a letter? is there a vaccination against gullibility?August 31, 2015 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #1099339
stam a deya – Let me tell you something – this topic isn’t about pro or con Vaccines, just about accepting kids who aren’t Vaxxed into schools. I don’t think you mentioned your opinion!August 31, 2015 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #1099340
“when it comes to something like internet in the house, which at worst, may indirectly affect other children negatively, and the negative ramifications have not been objectively proven by any stretch”
Thus has got to be one of the stupidest things written here.August 31, 2015 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1099341
APY, I’ve seen it, but didn’t speak to any of the signatories to verify. Two of them are known to be skeptical about vaccines, so their saying not go hold a kid out of yeshiva is poshut.
The question is what do pro-vaccine poskim hold about yeshiva admission.August 31, 2015 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #1099343
Who am i to pasken about kids getting let into school if all the gedolim and roshei yeshivos paskened that they should. If you are not worried about the janitors and teachers and cooks etc… who are not immunized, why should you be worried about the kids?August 31, 2015 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1099344
stam – i am not geting involved in the up and back of statistics and studies but I will say two things –
you may have a good point, i never looked into it, but there are, unfortunately, so many holes and fallacies in your proofs and reasons that it makes me doubt the validity of the rest of the info.
also, i have had two parents with cancer, one sister with an auto immune disease, a father on dialysis for years and my husband (yblch”t) has cholesterol and blood pressure numbers that are close to the limits. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR DOCTORS discussed the importance of diet and intake. EVERY ONE. that’s almost two or three doctors for each person (counting up all the specialists). My husband is actually in an exercise regimen that is controlling his blood pressure when he follows it so he can be off medicine. Not one of those doctors had blank stares and every one made the recommendation BEFORE/WITHOUT being asked. This view of medical doctors is highly inaccurate. and if your search for answers outside the medical field came from those poor interactions then you may be interested to know that your experiences are very unusual and not a good indicator for what people are experiencing out there.August 31, 2015 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1099345
To my dearest ubiquiten,
1. have you seen the video? If you are not open to learn about it, i really can’t continue and there is nothing for me to say. They do draw a blank face like the person who called me last night and said he has an autoimmune disorder and all the doctors told him nothing he eats will make a difference. They obviously did not see the video either or the thousands that follow her protocol with astounding success (they are in the middle of proving her theories in laboratory, but she is living testimony to it’s truth….)Infection cannot to the best of my knowledge but cancer can definitely be cured through nutrition. Tay Sachs not familiar.
2. How is the govt. gaining? you just wrote yourself: “they pay the govt. to push them” i.e. campaign contributions. So naive?
3. deleted web address…..mercury was replaced by aluminum which is more dangerous. google it.
4. Try buying some books on amazon (used is always cheaper).
5. i.e. you didn’t read what i wrote. No problem.
6. answered above.
7. not following what you are saying. you wrote: “Thank you for proving my point. The first line treatment for mild htn is diet and excercise!” and i wrote: “did i not say like that?” I.E. WE BOTH AGREE THAT DIET AND EXCERCISE HELPS. I think we are not communicating….
I am not running away. In lieu of statistic info, i retracted what i said and asked for a study of 10,000 people that scans for ALL DISEASES with the knowledge that vaxes will compromise immunity thereby making them susceptible to multiple diseases….i don’t recall you answering that (but maybe you did). I am very much interested in facts – but the facts that i see and not the ones manufactured by people that profit trillions of dollars off those facts, or the people who profit politically from those facts (the govt.)’ or the suckers that are too naive to understand what’s going on under their noses….I take offense that you say that my mind is made up when i specifically said that as of now i would lean towards vaxes spreading them out until i research further. Who is the dishonest one here????
August 31, 2015 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #1099346Matan1Participant
Stam, the plural of anecdote is not evidence. Name me ONE, just one, peer reviewed article that supports your claims.August 31, 2015 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1099347
stam a deya -“Health, Who am i to pasken about kids getting let into school if all the gedolim and roshei yeshivos paskened that they should.”
I asked your opinion, not your P’sak. This is an opinion site, which you constantly post on!
“If you are not worried about the janitors and teachers and cooks etc… who are not immunized, why should you be worried about the kids”
How do you know that they’re Not immunized? Don’t make statements unless you bring proof!August 31, 2015 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1099348
My heart goes out to you and your family, I wish all a refua shleima. My question is simple. The average doctor has about 20- 30 hours of nutrition education in medical school. How exactly are they suppose to instruct their patients on what to eat for their condition. My doctor told me that I know more than he does about nutrition “I only know how to write prescriptions….” his quote. As for the holes and fallacies, you are welcome to research my info if you please. I don’t profess to be an authority on anything. I am simply having a discussion about the vaccines and my concerns like everyone else. I have nothing to gain or lose from promoting what i have learned and seen. (Regarding your sister with auto-immune, i humbly suggest you look into Dr. Wahls how she overcame MS (and her work applies to all autoimmune). Google Wahls tedex video. Again, Refua Shleima to all.August 31, 2015 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1099349
Stam-thank you, but did you miss the point or deliberately ignore it?
You said doctors give you blank stare when you ask about diet.
I told you that that is not true at all and gave personal experiences from several relatives.
Your answer was that it couldn’t have happened because they never learned about it.
Are you able to hear the denial in your words? Your experience with one set of ignorant doctors is isolated. Several posters have said that doctors will recommend diet and exercise as aFIRST option. You should be thrilled but instead you seem to be unable to absorb it.
It it’s this type of unhealthy thinking that makes the rest of it lose validity.August 31, 2015 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #1099350
I didn’t miss the point. Let me explain. It is impossible for 40 hours of education to instruct others on their condition. Nutritionist (not dieteticians) spend years on learning about the intricacies of nutrition. Do the oncologists give any advice on eating? When my friends father in law was dying in a hospital of cancer, they fed him fried chicken ! He asked the doctor “if you are trying to cure cancer, why are you feeding them fried foods which are carcinogens”? The whole culture of modern medicine is that drugs and surgeries can cure without any respect for nutrition as medicine. This same friend had an aunt who doctors gave up hope on. She went to the Hippocretes Health Ctr. in Florida. They took her off all medicine and cured her with food. Her husband had a blocked artery in his neck and went down there for two weeks and his artery was cleared after following regiman. Doctors can only give the same (wrong) advice dictated by the govt. pyramid which should be turned on it’s head. In addition, Doctors told two ladies that i know personally that they had thyroid problems and have to take meds for rest of life but they were cured by local nutritionists. Two others that i know personally were told they had such bad asthma they had months to live and they cured themselves with a macrobiotic diet. The list goes on and on. But Doctors are clueless in what to do or suggest. Again, refua shleima to all. I believe there are natural cures for almost everything including cancers. May Hashem guide you on right path to find the cure.
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