Losing the battle against technology? ⚔️ 📵

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  • #1282693

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    I proudly admit that I do not have a smartphone. Do not have a facebook account. Have no idea how to twitter and when I see # I expect to see a number following it. Use a combination of physical maps and google map print-outs to get from point A to point B. Cannot use my card to withdraw money from the ATM since the password is sent by SMS, and my dumb phone does not do SMSing.
    Basically, I don’t feel that I am missing out on anything and am happy that I have not fallen a victim to too much technology. Until today.
    Anyway, at work, to access our network when off premises, we have to insert a passcode that is generated by this little token. Today I was informed that they are phasing out these tokens, and instead everyone will be able to get these passcodes via an application on their smartphones. Great. For the rest of the world who have smartphones. Seems I will not be able to work from home or anywhere else, unless I get a smartphone.
    Is it inevitable? Is the battle lost? Will I too have to get a smartphone just to be able to do the basics?

    #1282703

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    know what u mean. the battle, war actually, isnt over until we win. filters and whatnot are still somewhat of an option… i know what u mean. RESPECT!

    #1282702

    Meno
    Participant

    Just wait till they convince you to get whatsapp.

    From there on it’s a slippery slope…

    #1282712

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Filters are also technology. If you fight technology with technology, the whole world will be technologofied.

    #1282732

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    rebyidd23 we’ve gotta fight fire with fire sometimes bruv

    #1282734

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Yeah, I didn’t know a meeting was changed from the third floor to the second because I am not on the group’s whatsapp. But I got some good stair climbing exercise tracking it down.

    #1282768

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    It’s way more than inappropriate content – my laptop would pose the same problem then, but that is not an issue for me. It’s that I don’t want to be tied to it, don’t want it accompanying me everywhere I go. i want technology to serve me and not vice versa, and I see that with smartphones, that is hard to do.

    #1282773

    Meno
    Participant

    Maybe you should move to a third world country

    #1282788

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Fire is different. Fire burns and then is over. Technology techs forever.

    #1282809

    Joseph
    Participant

    Israel is third world.

    #1282832

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Maybe you can get a smart phone for work and leave it at that.

    I know a lot of people who have a separate work phone. It doesn’t stop the issue of it being a compromise on something that you otherwise promised you would never do but the circumstances seem to be that it is the best thing because you need it to continue working and being there for your family. So maybe with emuna here, Hashem needs you to have a smartphone and this is the only way it was possible.

    You are a fighting for Hashem. I don’t think you’re losing.

    And just because you get a smartphone for work does not mean that you have disgraced yourself otherwise.

    Yes you may become more familiar with it and realize that in itself it is not an evil object. The power comes from its door.

    But that is just my opinion and I say that after having resisted a smartphone for nearly 5 years or so, assuming that I was getting around just fine, only to realize later how much it helped me become more independent and organized, and navigationally coordinated once I had one in my life.

    B’Hatzlacha! You’re a warrior 🙂

    #1282838

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    WTP: I understand your feelings but sometimes you have no choice but to accept and use the technology. In the 1930’s and 1940’s not everyone had a telephone and eventually it became standard that every home had a telephone. Today it is smartphones. I use WhatsApp for one purpose…to set up my morning learning session.

    #1282859

    flatbushaskan
    Participant

    @winniethepooh why do I feel that your lying?
    Now on to the topic, technology is here to stay, avoiding it is pushing off the inevitable, if you really need a smartphone, ios (in case you don’t know, that is Apples operating system for their devices) has pretty strong parental controls that you can use, or a Blackberry not running android (obviously someone else, not a family member or close friend, should set it up for you).
    I’m assuming your laptop/computer at home uses a whitelist for the internet. Instead of fighting technology try to learn how to use it in a kosher manner.
    Btw which bank requires you to get an SMS of your pin for the ATM? The only one I know of is Wells Fargo, and that is to make a withdrawal WITHOUT your bank card.

    #1282860

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    ah i hear what u saying about bout taken over by it. bh i dont have a smart phone now but even from reg txting i get that problem. actually about to give a report on the negative effects of socia media in lil bit. sry cant help u but i can tel u to daven, works wonders. again RESPECT!

    #1282875

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    The worst technological innovation is the coffee room. I can’t believe there are so called “frum yidden” willing to post in it. Have they no shame?

    #1282912

    Based on things I’ve had to delete, no, if say they don’t.

    #1282920

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    There have been many movements since the industrial revolution in the past 200-250 years to push back against technology and its social, cultural and economic consequences. In other words, and to coin a phrase, ba’chol dor v’dor there are Luddites who have tried to put their finger in the dike to fend off sometimes intimidating changes in the way technology changes our day to day lives. In virtually all cases, these efforts have not succeeded. Perhaps the only exception are those religious groups, including some of our own, who have the discipline to refuse change and find ways to continue life as it was in the Alte Heim in our case. When the motivation is deeply held emunah (as in your case) rather than a vague political philosophy, there are always ways to manage. Over time, its possible that a younger generation of rabbonim may “move the goalposts” as to what is acceptable based on having a better understanding of how technology works rather than redefining Halacha. Much hatzlacha to you in wherever you come out in resolving your own individual conflicts.

    #1282924

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    You can’t battle against technology because you don’t have any weapons.

    #1282952

    bmyer
    Participant

    “You can’t battle against technology because you don’t have any weapons.”

    RY: You have the torah, davening, siyata d’shmaya and yiras shomayim those are as powerful weapons as you can get…

    The war is not over! The war will never be over!! As long as there are yidden that care about hashem and his torah the war will not be over!!!!!

    #1282956

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    There are plenty of people who use it to their own benefit. Just make sure to remember your current sentiment.

    Being mature with an advanced device constantly in your reach takes practice, like any other Mida. When you see the way other people use that nauseates you, take note and make a mental note not to look like that.

    Our parents didn’t have these things early on so we aren’t disciplined on its etiquette. We’ll have to make it up on our own, and well enough to be able to help the next generation.

    Get used to ignoring notifications, or mute them. For emergencies people will call (an added on capability of smartphones).

    But the good news is, that if you didn’t get it in order to have fun but rather out of an actual necessity, and if you actually care more about your biological life, you will most likely succeed in not having it take over your life. But make a note to stop and reevaluate your position in half a year.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Chalkboard II.

    #1282967

    kitov
    Participant

    The only people I know that are winning the battle against technology are the Amish people.
    Furthermore the Amish people are modest and humble people .
    IMHO they are the best of the gentiles.

    #1283018

    Joseph
    Participant

    Many of the Heimish are doing very good too.

    #1283016

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    They are losing.

    #1282995

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Even at least part of the Amish community is using more technology now, marketing online with its Dutch store and partnering with banks for cash back deals.

    #1283048

    Joseph
    Participant

    Those are the off- the – derech Amish.

    #1283049

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    WTP – before you assume the battle is lost, maybe you should ask a sheilah about what to do? Do you have a Rav whom you can ask these kinds of questions to? If not, can you find one? (just don’t choose him only based on his location :))

    #1283052

    gilda
    Participant

    All the awareness campaigns are worthwhile – I’m sure there are always people getting the message and doing Kosher phones. We can’t give up it has made too many chorbonus.

    #1283070

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Sorry, but the Torah relies on technology. Without the technology of parchment and ink, where do you get your Sifrei Torah?

    #1283071

    Avi K
    Participant

    Maybe we should just go back into caves a make fires by rubbing two sticks with a flint in between. The problem isn’t the technology it is how some people use it. In some ways it improves things. Before cell phones (including “kosher phones”) became common people talked in shul. Now at least they go outside. Some even put theirs on silent ringtone. Of course, a shull board can block reception (legally) with devices like Faraday cages. Fighting technology vs. technology.

    #1283072

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Lying about what? Not having a smart phone? I live in Israel. In frum neighborhoods, the default is a kosher dumb phone without SMS capability. and only for adults.
    Again, I am not worried about content- that is B”H not my taayva. It would not be for the kids to use, and anyway, a filter is easy enough to install. I am fine with using technoogy in a kosher manner, but I am worried about technology taking over. I will use it for work. And then take it with me when I travel so I can have waze, and then use it to take and send pictures, etc etc. Basically, I don’t see what is so smart about a smart phone, and I rather not have one.

    You are obviously not familiar with my bank in Israel. I got a new credit card. The code for the ATM came separately in the mail, but got misplaced. When I asked for a new one, they said they can send it by SMS, or send it to the bank. My branch is not local, and by the time I was able to get there physically, they did not have it and their response was, we will send it by SMS. Back to square one, have no code since I can’t get SMS. Also for my online banking, they keep asking me to update my personal information, but to do so, they need to send a password for verification to the cell phone by SMS. Can’t do that, so have not updated the info. Just praying I don’t get locked out from the online access as a result of not having updated the info.
    By the way, my american bank would not let me make a wire transfer without verifying the deal by sending an SMS to my cell phone….I had to settle it the old fashioned way by writing a check.

    #1283073

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Naturally, but I am afraid that the rav might say it is ok to get one…

    #1283098

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    As for sms, if you want to keep it off and still use those services, there is another way. Set yourself up a Google number and give that to the bank.

    #1283178

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Can you explain? What is a google number? Do you mean that google will get the SMS, and then it will come to email or something?

    #1283210

    Meno
    Participant

    It’s called Google Voice.

    You sign up online, get a regular number that you can set to ring either on your phone or on the Google Voice website.

    You can also get sms messages either on your phone (not applicable in your case), an/or on the website, and/or forwarded to your email.

    It sounds like it would work in your situation as long as you have a computer with internet access (it might work for your ATM card too)

    #1283245

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Unless you are willing to ride a horse and buggy, store food in a pit in the backyard, do your business in an outhouse and use candlight for light, technology is here to stay

    #1283259

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Serious people are also here to stay.

    #1283257

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Go to voice.google.com and choose a number. Then you can set this number to forward all calls to a phone of your choice. Separately, you can forward text messages sent to that number to any phone. Regardless of these settings, all voice mail and text messages are sent to your email. If you respond to that email the person sees that as a response by text.

    #1283298

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    A side note Amish DO use Cell Phones. they are just against the wires so they dont use land lines (Dont ask me why its that way I dont understand it either)

    #1283303

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    As long as we sacrifice children every year to our school system, we really can’t complain about technology, which saves lives.

    #1283304

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    How do they charge them?

    #1283305

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Horse and buggy is also technology.

    #1283317

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Technology is a big part of the difference between humans and animals.

    #1283316

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Does Google Voice work in Eretz Yisroel?

    #1283322

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    WTP – I cannot tell you how your post spoke for me. I am with you 100%. I felt the same way when I had to get a smart phone and really agree with all your fears coming true. I can tell you what measures I took but it is still so very difficult.
    RY,Avi – I don’t get why you are throwing around those comments? Her feelings are very personal and deep, if you don’t think they are founded, why make jokes about them? Posters throwing in comments about horse and buggy and parchment is just disrespectful to her question and feelings on this. Nobody doesn’t know what type of technology she is referring to and nobody thinks she is talking about ink and parchment.

    I went through this the other day. It was my sister’s yahrtzeit and I was in a lot of pain. I thought about all the times I would post when I had those thoughts, talking about the emunah involved in getting past the pain and struggle, and sharing any chizuk or need for chizuk. And I realized I wouldn’t even consider it these days. The way people respond at times to pain or struggle, to personal struggles with life is not always conducive to sharing these things. It’s not quite so ‘safe’ here anymore and seeing these responses to WTP’s OP just reconfirmed it and made me feel really sad.

    #1283332

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    +1 Syag.

    Also, I frankly think it’s ridiculous that people nitpick the word “technology” when there’s a very real issue here, that some of today’s technology posts a real threat to people’s ruchniyus. I think playing what is essentially semantics belittles a very real concern.

    Nobody here is saying that any of today’s devices are problematic because they’re new. They’re problematic because they can and do give the yetzer hora a tremendous opening to tempt people, and many people have succumbed.

    #1283335

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If you want accurate responses, don’t use the wrong word. When you say technology, I hear technology.

    #1283339

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If you want accurate responses, don’t use the wrong word. When you say technology, I hear technology.

    Very poor excuse. You’re smarter than that.

    #1283349

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s not an excuse. There is no need to excuse proper word usage. Anyone who uses the word “technology” when they mean smartphones is a rasha.

    #1283347

    Meno
    Participant

    I think at some point you had to have an existing U.S. number in order to sign up, but I don’t think that’s the case anymore.

    I found a few articles online which discuss using Google Voice to send and receive calls internationally.

    #1283343

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    First people here appropriate my neurology, now you insult it?

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