Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › MAGA Support For Israel is Dead
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June 19, 2025 2:41 am at 2:41 am #2414423crazykanoiyParticipant
Any astute observer saw this coming. The people who turned on Ukraine would turn on Israel as well. Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, Joe Rogan, Steve Banon and all are now some of the loudest anti-Israel voices. The GOP that has sacrificed its belief in free trade, limited government, fealty to the Constitution. robust support of NATO is now sacrificing its support for Israel under the sway of the MAGA isolationists. The voices of Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham and Mike Pence are being shouted down. We live in scary times the progressive left and the isolationist right leave Israel in a position that would have seemed nightmarish just a few years ago. America no longer had a truly Conservative party only progressive and populist ones. We are all worse off for it. It is sad that so many of us cheered on the likes of Banon, Tucker, Kirk, Owens, and Jones and their America First ideology drawn straight from Charles Lindbergh and his Nazi appeasers.
June 19, 2025 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #2414630akupermaParticipantMAGA has always been isolationist, which means unwilling to go to war for any. There is still a large chunk of Republicans who are pre-MAGA (e.g. neocons, Reaganites, globalists in the Eisenhower mold), It should also be noted that the “Christian Right” supported Trump, but is also pro-immigration (in part since many if not most of the immigrant wannabees are religious Christians) and they also tend to support Israel. Also remember that a large amount of the Democrats are now pro-Hamas, and they appear to be on the verge of taking over the party, but for culture war reasons are unable to ally with the MAGA populists. Given the impossibility of a MAGA-WOKE alliance, the DINOs (e.g. Chuck Schumer) and RINOs (e.g. Ted Cruz, Mike Pence, etc.) could either take over one or the other party, or form a third party alliance.
Trump’s base is unlikely to give up on MAGA over a muscular foreign policy, and by making an “example” out of Iran, Trump will seriously improve his, and America’s, position vis a vis Iran’s allies (Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc.). The Zionists have never trusted a goyish state, and probably know how to act in their own interests (e.g. make their large bombs that can destroy Iran even if they would prefer the Americans do their work for them). Right now we appear a lot better off than in the 1930s and early 1940s, so everyone should relax and stop checking YWN every five minutes to see if the world is still there.
June 19, 2025 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #2414717☕️coffee addictParticipant“Any astute observer saw this coming. The people who turned on Ukraine would turn on Israel as well. Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, Joe Rogan, Steve Banon and all are now some of the loudest anti-Israel voices.“
Louder voices come from Bernie sanders (even made a resolution to not go into war) Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, AOC, and I wouldn’t be surprised at the countless democrat “pundits” just because it’s under trump instead of Biden
Give it up, your party is the anti Israel party (not including pro illegal murder party, the party of abortion, anti police, pro reckless government spending
No wonder it’s hemorrhaging voters
June 19, 2025 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #2414751LerntminTayrahParticipantYup. Horseshoe theory. Halacha Eisav sonei leYaakov and no Eisav is immune from its siren song. Har Sinai is called Sinai because it created sinah, and we have no choice but to rely on Hashem instead of politicians. It is time to let go of tumas MAGA.
June 19, 2025 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #2414810ezra101ParticipantThe only MAGA support that matters any iota is DJT.
Charlie kirk, tucker carlson, candace owens, wtver. they have no say in anything that happens. and donald trump is unwaveringly in Israels camp right now. it looks more and more likely he is going to bomb fordowJune 19, 2025 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #2414910smerelParticipant>>>Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, Joe Rogan, Steve Banon and all are now some of the loudest anti-Israel voices.
Opposing the US getting involved in a war does not equal being the loudest anti-Israel voices. You would be hard pressed to find a person of influence in the US today who is more pro Israel than Charlie Kirk. Including strong support for Israel attacking Iran. There is nothing inherently anti-Israel about his view that the war does not involve the US so it should not get involved . Some of the other names are anti semites in any case. Their opposition to the US involvement in the war is not necessarily a symptom of that. The long term Israeli view has also been not to involve US foot soldiers in their wars and not to allow US peacekeepers on its borders. Reason being that all it would take is a few American solders killed for the entire US to turn anti Israel
June 19, 2025 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #2414912crazykanoiyParticipantIt sure looks like Carlson, Rogan and the MAGA folk hold a lot of sway. It does NOT look like Trump will bomb anything. Now he says he needs two weeks while Witkoff deals with the Mullahs. Let that sink in two weeks. Trump is all talk no action. In two weeks he will delay again. Ul
June 19, 2025 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #2414967keithParticipantUmmmm this person or that person is not what is important. And Candace Owens is like a Nation of Islam person now. What’s important is not individuals but polls showing support. Recent polls show the vast vast majority of both republicans and maga support Israel attacking Iran. I think over 80 percent. And clear majorities – I think almost 60 percent support America bombing I Iran. In contrast it’s a small minority of the left including democrats that support Israel.
You really need to pay attention. Support for Israel in America is broad and includes the center and the right but the left is the party of AOC and ilhan Omar. They hate Israel and hate traditional America.
June 19, 2025 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #2414969keithParticipantI didn’t see who posted it. Of course it’s crazy kanoy. I am by no means certain he is Jewish and doubt he is an obersvant Jew. He clearly is a leftist from all of his previous posts and clearly hates conservatives and conservative values which is why I doubt he is an observant Jew.
June 19, 2025 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #2415040Baruch DParticipantNow that is a new one. Questioning someone’s Judaism and calling them a leftist because they don’t support Trump. I know I’m Jewish and I’m not a leftist. Trump has forever changed the Republican party. The right, like the left, now has a developing strong current of anti-semites. This is indeed Trump’s doing as he takes support from anyone who supports him and crazy people often like him a lot. At the end of the day, it appears he’s listening to the right people right now. We know his decisions are not the basis of his own free will from Chazal. Issues of this level of importance on a macro level by a world leader are determined by HKBH. Whatever goes right or wrong at this point it’s not his doing. I would point out that one of the scariest people who likes these Fringe isolationist and anti-semites is none other than Vance. As someone who doesn’t like trump, I am praying for his health.
June 19, 2025 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #2415052crazykanoiyParticipantKeith – Crazyjanoiy proudly servs Hashern not the false Gods of MAGAism and Trunpism. It is truly amazing to see how so many react with name calling and vitriol when there false ideology is exposed with facts
June 19, 2025 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #2415064ParticipantParticipantIsolationism is one thing. Obviously, as Israel supporters, it’s not our preference, but if DJT/MAGA prefer isolationism, it’s a legitimate MO.
The bigger problem is his “negotiations” and “peace-making” which besides for bringing out the buffoon’s best, also puts meek Israel (and everywhere else) in a sticky situation. He could just as easily keep the hatch shut or tell Israel “Go for it!” without assisting.June 19, 2025 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #2415096none2.0ParticipantThat’s ok relax. This is just exposing people. you take tucker Carlson seriously? I don’t. Relax
June 19, 2025 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #2415191mdd1ParticipantCoffee addict, he is not saying the Democrats are good. Are you capable of admitting that Trump is wrong about anything?
June 20, 2025 12:01 am at 12:01 am #2415237mdd1ParticipantKeith, the crazy kanoy just does not like Trump. About him hating conservative values — I have not seen that at all.
June 20, 2025 12:01 am at 12:01 am #2415240Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantI don’t think you guys appreciate how Trump’s suggestion of further negotiations worked to the benefit of the Israeli attack.
June 22, 2025 12:57 am at 12:57 am #2415450smerelParticipant>>>I would point out that one of the scariest people who likes these Fringe isolationist and anti-semites is none other than Vance.
JD Vance does have isolationist views. They include things like criticizing Biden and co a June 2024 speech for not allowing Israel to fight Hamas without U.S. micromanagement. He opposes the US spending enormous amounts of money on foreign aid . He still co-signed a letter urging replenishment of Israel’s Iron Dome funding.
During the vice-presidential debate, he sid that Israel’s decision to launch a preemptive strike on Iran is “up to Israel” to ensure its safety, and the U.S. should support its allies “when they’re fighting the bad guys.”
It is important not to attack these type of people as being “anti-Israel” or “dangerous” for an across the board leaning towards isolationist views because such talk can create a self fulfilling prophecy.
For more perspective compare JD Vance = to his opponent, Tim Waltz, who said that the U.S. lacks neutrality to mediate peace between Israel and Iran, and that China might have the “moral authority” to broker an agreement.
June 22, 2025 12:57 am at 12:57 am #2415500amomParticipantOne thing people forget, whether Trump has US join the war or not, Israel would not be doing what it’s doing during Biden.
Under Trump Israel can be strong- is that not important?June 22, 2025 12:59 am at 12:59 am #2415511Baruch DParticipantIf it did benefit, it is not to Trump’s credit. He meant what he said and wanted to stall action. This was not some well thought out ploy to mislead. I thank Hashem for putting the wrong idea in Trump’s head to benefit us, if that is what occurred.
June 22, 2025 12:59 am at 12:59 am #2415759☕️coffee addictParticipant“Coffee addict, he is not saying the Democrats are good. Are you capable of admitting that Trump is wrong about anything?“
I have said countless times how i didnt agree with Trump, do you read my comments or just one comment that you nitpicked
This thread is about MAGA not about trump (because they have to find something wrong somewhere) it’s like a thread about the squad which has nothing to do with Biden (when he was president
But anyway you see how crazy and his ilk dont know trump and he isnt beholden to anybody
June 22, 2025 1:00 am at 1:00 am #2415818ardParticipantwell this aged well
June 22, 2025 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #2415958ujmParticipantWell, well, well, looks like, again, that MAGA is the most pro-Israel and pro-Jewish political movement in US history.
And President Trump has, once again, proven to be the most pro-Israel president since the State of Israel has existed. Not to mention, the most pro-Jewish president in US history.
June 22, 2025 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #2415964keithParticipantYeah this aged well. My point about kanoiy is either he hates Israel’s supporters or he loves our enemies and it appears both. When he supports those who tell Israel they can’t attack Hamas, they can’t go in and rescue hostages. He supports those who give billions to Iran and look away as they build a nuclear bomb. This is who he loves. The enemies of the Jewish people. And who he hates is the guy who just took out irans nuclear program.
June 22, 2025 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2416153smerelParticipant>>>If it did benefit, it is not to Trump’s credit. etc.
Wow. This takes being anti-Trump to a whole new level .Even when you think Trump did the right thig you still can not give him credit and say “I thank Hashem for putting the wrong idea in Trump’s head to benefit us,” Next time you wonder why people so blindly follow Trump realize that you have the same mindset. Only you are on the other side. Trump supporters can also brush off anything he did wrong by saying “Hashem put the wrong idea in his head” too
June 22, 2025 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2416189Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantBaruch > If it did benefit, it is not to Trump’s credit.
Important to note the logic behind such statements. Go a day back – and anti-T people were saying: we know he is only bluffing, this is his problem, etc. I am not speaking about this poster and this room, but across the board in the country. Now, after he did the opposite of their expectation – same people changing the tune to something else – not to his credit; maybe bombs were moved to another; this is a big risk, etc. Taken by themselves, each of these statement might make sense, but the overall logic is very simple – we do not care about the facts, we just care about finding some other argument to support our position. This is, sadly, pure propaganda, and has absolutely zero information to the readers. In Jewish terms, genevas daas and also zman and emotions of the readers. Similar un-kosher logic is used by many posters towards multiple events. Try to recognize it before you post, please. Midvar shker tirhok.
June 22, 2025 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2416191Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantSome of the isolationists are really against anyone who is not like them. America has this strong tradition from the time of country founding, when US tried to not get involved into endless wars between European powers. It served the country well and helped it develop while others were busy destroying each other. Until the time US became so strong that it became a moral issue where US is capable of changing the world to the better. This struggle happened in both WW1 and WW2, where US was not prepared militarily (Army was almost non-existent) but very capable due to industrial strength. (Btw, those who criticize FDR for not intervening enough on behalf of Jews, should also give him credit for pushing USA into the war despite strong opposition).
Republican party in 20th century had a sizeable isolationist minority (see Pat Buchanan, for example), and now Trump brought more of amei haaretz who used to be democrats (“uneducated” that he loves). Without this realignment, same amei haaretz would be joint with anti-Israeli left with way more damage. So, we need to recognize that democratic reality and try to work with or around them. Bibi did this brilliantly – by cleaning the path for B-2s from air defense and letting Trump take front stage with a spectacular makeh b’patish, allowing T to take credit but also claim that involvement is one-time only. As Chofetz Chaim sid – in uor times, one need to be klug, klug, and then frum.
June 22, 2025 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #2416368GadolhadorahParticipantLets wait and see how “MAGA” reacts to any Iranian retaliation for the bombing of the nuclear facilities. If limited, as we hope, than it will squash the the Tucker Carlson/Steve Bannon/MTG MAGA wing. If there are serious consequences to U.S. troops stationed in the middle East or terrorist attacks on American installations in the U.S. or elsewhere thar require follow-up attacks and sucking us in to a wider conflict, be prepared for massive repudiation of Trump’s decision to bomb.
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416415☕️coffee addictParticipantTACO stands for GH likes to talk but doesnt know squat
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416440☕️coffee addictParticipant🚨 Trump Will Decide On ‘Direct Involvement’ In Iran Within 2 Weeks [VIDEOS]
How does it feel to be wrong so many times
I just heard a great line it’s not right vs left, it’s right vs WRONG!
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416461Baruch DParticipantI meant what I said. Hashem controls the minds of leaders. If we have a question, it is on Hashem. Of course Trump deserves a lot of credit for what he did.
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416462Baruch DParticipantVance recently gave a speech in which he lauded the isolationist approach that he claimed was part of his administration. As an example he spoke about how the US fought against the houthis when it was an issue of US interests. When those were resolved, they left. Left unstated was that the US didn’t negotiate to protect israel. To Vance, this was a good thing. Look up the video and you can hear it for yourself. I think we should be praying for Trump’s health, as much as he is ruining the country do, Vance is surely worse.
Zchus Al yedei zackay. No matter how repulsive someone may be in many ways, you never know their merit. Never write anyone off so quickly. It’s truly a great merit that Trump has today. He finished his speech by thinking God and did so very authentically. He tied his actions to protecting Israel which certainly was not necessary for political purposes. He must have really felt it.
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416463Baruch DParticipantSmerel you misinterpreted my statement. People were saying that Trump misled Iran on purpose by pretending to prefer negotiation as a stalling practice. My point was that really was Trump’s preference. But it turned out well for us.
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416476ardParticipantcrazy suspiciously hasnt posted since motzaei shabbos
June 23, 2025 11:31 am at 11:31 am #2416666akupermaParticipantPolling seems to suggest that the MAGA rank and file has suddenly rejected isolationism and redefined “America First” back to the Cold War bi-partisan agreement that America should be first in leading the Free World against tyrants. As the same time, as indicated by the New York Democratic primary, it appears that the Democrats are becoming the party of isolationism and open anti-Semitism. There are big shifts.
June 23, 2025 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #2416798ujmParticipantakuperma: Excellent points and analysis.
June 25, 2025 11:00 am at 11:00 am #2417766fandango443ParticipantEnjoy your Nazi scum allies in the party of “Judeo-Christian” values. Republicans have been taking you for a ride 50 years now.
June 25, 2025 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #2418173Baruch DParticipantNo akup, isolationists have never been more strong in the Republican party than today and it’s largely because of maga. Fand I totally agree with your sentiment. We are placing too much faith in the far right Christians. . However, the tone of your comment is so harsh.
June 26, 2025 10:04 am at 10:04 am #2418332Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantBaruch > isolationists have never been more strong in the Republican party than today
maybe “in a hundred years” – US closed borders to immigrants in 1924, I recall. But Trump’s “fault” is mostly in moving this crowd from D- or none to R-, resulting in his winning of two elections. We just saw that he is capable of acting internationally, even while within maga boundaries of not engaging in a long conflict. Yes, there is danger that a true maga leader will come after. But the alternative is/was – a smooth talking dems who promise something to every voter in order to win; and we saw how they govern – not good for the country and for the world. As I mentioned before, Bibi clearly showed his preference – he could have pushed the operation into January if he hoped for more support for the previous administration, especially after elections.
June 26, 2025 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #2418711smerelParticipantSimple Question: Can anyone make an intelligent argument that Israel would have been better off during the Iran war had it been during the Iran had Harris and Waltz been in the white house? What is it?
Even from the Republican side, say McCain, or Romney would have won the presidency and it would be their types leading the Republican party. Does anyone think they would have bombed Iran’s Fordow nuclear facility?
June 26, 2025 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #2418810Baruch DParticipantAaq. All good points. The problem is that the energy and direction of the Republican party is now pointing in that direction including his very vice president. Also, if the Republican party is split into two, the normals and the fanatics, it could potentially ruin the party and or lose elections in the future. I suppose you could say the same is true to what’s happening in the Democratic party now as well, witness the mayoral election in New York. It’s a shikul hadaas and mine comes out different than yours.
June 26, 2025 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #2418925Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantBaruch, the nature of US politics is that there are two strong parties that each, by necessity, unite everyone on one side into a party. An alternative model is in Israel and many European countries where there are multiple parties representing different shades, combination, and divisions among multiple dimensions – so we have a part of anti-religious socialists, national religious socialists, charedi socialists – and then they fight it out in knesset as groups, maneuvering for each particular issue.
So, in American system, as long as you have a strong center, you have to incorporate all extremists on your side – while also not losing the “center” aka “undecided”. So, I am not denying that there is a certain danger in the extreme wing of Rs. And I see the danger not in Trump himself – who repeatedly showed that he is willing to change his positions to more moderate the moment he sees problems, but in people who will talk same language as T but then are not capable of coming with innovative solutions and of responding to reality as well as he is. We seem to agree with this latter part. Note that all the hysterics around T’s words and actions increase the chance that someone unworthy will come after – because the public is desensitized to the criticism, seeing how meaningless it is. So, for the good of the country, limit your criticism.
June 27, 2025 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #2418992Baruch DParticipantParticipant. I appreciate your respectful tone. I don’t believe that Trump has any true morals beyond supporting those who support him. It is because of this trait that he has brought in some many outright anti-semites into the party like no time in recent history. I care about Republican ideals. I think he’s ruining the party. I think it’s important to speak out against him.
Smerel: simple question. Would we have been better off with Nikki Haley?
June 27, 2025 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #2419025fandango443ParticipantBiden/Harris helped Israel crush the Axis of Resistance just like Obama did during his time in office. Israel’s idiotic rightist government held themselves back because they exist to do Trump and Putin’s bidding. Try doing some research not filtered through Republican lenses.
June 27, 2025 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #2419119Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantI take back my suggestion that Bibi chose to do the operation under Trump. Latest reporting says that Bibi was trying to start this operation for some unspecified time period, clearly during Biden but maybe even during Obama times, but he was not supported by others in the security cabinet and haeds of agencies because of (1) fear of Iranian retaliation (2) concerns that US was not supportive. So, my main point that Israel preferred to do the op under Trump still stands, but it was not Bibi but others who were not sure of support under Ds. Bibi seemingly considered the attack itself more important.
June 29, 2025 9:38 am at 9:38 am #2419197Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantAnother WSJ article says specifically when Bibi wanted to bomb Iran – 2010,11,12 – Obama times.
June 29, 2025 9:38 am at 9:38 am #2419198Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantBaruch > simple question. Would we have been better off with Nikki Haley
Not sure. Republicans had a pro-business anti-commie candidate Mitt Romney – and he was accused of all kind of silly things, including being laughed at for saying that Russia is a threat. He was such a gentleman that he did not fight back, hoping voters will figure it out. Well, they did not. Haley might have done better, but still similar. Trump is trying a lot of things (that others would not try) and reverses when things do not go right – as any good businessman does. As long as he does teshuva based on this feedback, I am fine with him trying his ideas. Many of the things are hard to evaluate before some time passes. But some are clear – his policy on China from first term was not reversed by Biden; his pro-oil/gas and increased NATO spending is working and accepted, at least on paper so far, by Europeans. On June 11, he did not want Israel to bomb; on June 12, he agreed; on June 13 he planned his own attack. This is fast enough.
June 29, 2025 9:43 am at 9:43 am #2419409Baruch DParticipantAlways ask questions. My last comment was for you but I accidentally wrote participant. I appreciate your broad knowledge and your attempt to get to the truth. That doesn’t mean I agree with you all the time though. In my mind, Israel is better off perhaps with someone that yields no power on decision making. Everybody knew Biden was irrelevant. Trump through his compliments and assistance demands allegiance in a way Biden did not. Fandango’s point is probably what I’m making. I agree with his points but I still don’t like the tone.
June 30, 2025 9:22 am at 9:22 am #2419542Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantBaruch > Israel is better off perhaps with someone that yields no power on decision making.
What do you mean? There are situations where indeed having a deadlock helps. For example, when either US or Israeli government is trying to do something wrong … most often happens when the government is trying to do “too much” as it is “natural” for politicians to pay off their voters with our money. But in foreign policy, US president has a lot of power and of he himself does not yield it, then people around him do. So, we get government by unelected officials, see Kafka’s Castle. Most of Obama/Biden policies were driven by people who did not have experience beyond being government officials and their policies were driven by the textbooks they were taught. During 202 elections, Biden tried to separate himself, putting articles in Jewish papers that he was the only one in O- administration who viewed Israel historically – not as an “occupier” – but remembering what environment Israel is in – from 1973 etc. I think this had some truth to it, as was he is supportive reaction towards Israel (and towards Ukraine) early on. But he clearly was not able to break through his helpers in a long term and he would not support, forget about initiate, any bold actions.
June 30, 2025 9:23 am at 9:23 am #2419715none2.0ParticipantFirst of all Israel isn’t going to be exempt from scrutiny and always perfect. balance is required in your thinking nobody is perfect and if someone scrutinizes something it doesn’t always automatically mean lack of support. Actually support sometimes means telling you off.
June 30, 2025 9:23 am at 9:23 am #2419716none2.0ParticipantSo relax it’s not all black and white and you see he defended netanyahu recently.
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