MAGA Support For Israel is Dead

MAGA has always been isolationist, which means unwilling to go to war for any. There is still a large chunk of Republicans who are pre-MAGA (e.g. neocons, Reaganites, globalists in the Eisenhower mold), It should also be noted that the “Christian Right” supported Trump, but is also pro-immigration (in part since many if not most of the immigrant wannabees are religious Christians) and they also tend to support Israel. Also remember that a large amount of the Democrats are now pro-Hamas, and they appear to be on the verge of taking over the party, but for culture war reasons are unable to ally with the MAGA populists. Given the impossibility of a MAGA-WOKE alliance, the DINOs (e.g. Chuck Schumer) and RINOs (e.g. Ted Cruz, Mike Pence, etc.) could either take over one or the other party, or form a third party alliance.

Trump’s base is unlikely to give up on MAGA over a muscular foreign policy, and by making an “example” out of Iran, Trump will seriously improve his, and America’s, position vis a vis Iran’s allies (Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc.). The Zionists have never trusted a goyish state, and probably know how to act in their own interests (e.g. make their large bombs that can destroy Iran even if they would prefer the Americans do their work for them). Right now we appear a lot better off than in the 1930s and early 1940s, so everyone should relax and stop checking YWN every five minutes to see if the world is still there.

Yup. Horseshoe theory. Halacha Eisav sonei leYaakov and no Eisav is immune from its siren song. Har Sinai is called Sinai because it created sinah, and we have no choice but to rely on Hashem instead of politicians. It is time to let go of tumas MAGA.

>>>Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, Joe Rogan, Steve Banon and all are now some of the loudest anti-Israel voices.

Opposing the US getting involved in a war does not equal being the loudest anti-Israel voices. You would be hard pressed to find a person of influence in the US today who is more pro Israel than Charlie Kirk. Including strong support for Israel attacking Iran. There is nothing inherently anti-Israel about his view that the war does not involve the US so it should not get involved . Some of the other names are anti semites in any case. Their opposition to the US involvement in the war is not necessarily a symptom of that. The long term Israeli view has also been not to involve US foot soldiers in their wars and not to allow US peacekeepers on its borders. Reason being that all it would take is a few American solders killed for the entire US to turn anti Israel

Ummmm this person or that person is not what is important. And Candace Owens is like a Nation of Islam person now. What’s important is not individuals but polls showing support. Recent polls show the vast vast majority of both republicans and maga support Israel attacking Iran. I think over 80 percent. And clear majorities – I think almost 60 percent support America bombing I Iran. In contrast it’s a small minority of the left including democrats that support Israel.

You really need to pay attention. Support for Israel in America is broad and includes the center and the right but the left is the party of AOC and ilhan Omar. They hate Israel and hate traditional America.

Now that is a new one. Questioning someone’s Judaism and calling them a leftist because they don’t support Trump. I know I’m Jewish and I’m not a leftist. Trump has forever changed the Republican party. The right, like the left, now has a developing strong current of anti-semites. This is indeed Trump’s doing as he takes support from anyone who supports him and crazy people often like him a lot. At the end of the day, it appears he’s listening to the right people right now. We know his decisions are not the basis of his own free will from Chazal. Issues of this level of importance on a macro level by a world leader are determined by HKBH. Whatever goes right or wrong at this point it’s not his doing. I would point out that one of the scariest people who likes these Fringe isolationist and anti-semites is none other than Vance. As someone who doesn’t like trump, I am praying for his health.

Isolationism is one thing. Obviously, as Israel supporters, it’s not our preference, but if DJT/MAGA prefer isolationism, it’s a legitimate MO.
The bigger problem is his “negotiations” and “peace-making” which besides for bringing out the buffoon’s best, also puts meek Israel (and everywhere else) in a sticky situation. He could just as easily keep the hatch shut or tell Israel “Go for it!” without assisting.

Coffee addict, he is not saying the Democrats are good. Are you capable of admitting that Trump is wrong about anything?

I don’t think you guys appreciate how Trump’s suggestion of further negotiations worked to the benefit of the Israeli attack.

One thing people forget, whether Trump has US join the war or not, Israel would not be doing what it’s doing during Biden.
Under Trump Israel can be strong- is that not important?

“Coffee addict, he is not saying the Democrats are good. Are you capable of admitting that Trump is wrong about anything?“

I have said countless times how i didnt agree with Trump, do you read my comments or just one comment that you nitpicked

This thread is about MAGA not about trump (because they have to find something wrong somewhere) it’s like a thread about the squad which has nothing to do with Biden (when he was president

But anyway you see how crazy and his ilk dont know trump and he isnt beholden to anybody

Well, well, well, looks like, again, that MAGA is the most pro-Israel and pro-Jewish political movement in US history.

And President Trump has, once again, proven to be the most pro-Israel president since the State of Israel has existed. Not to mention, the most pro-Jewish president in US history.

>>>If it did benefit, it is not to Trump’s credit. etc.

Wow. This takes being anti-Trump to a whole new level .Even when you think Trump did the right thig you still can not give him credit and say “I thank Hashem for putting the wrong idea in Trump’s head to benefit us,” Next time you wonder why people so blindly follow Trump realize that you have the same mindset. Only you are on the other side. Trump supporters can also brush off anything he did wrong by saying “Hashem put the wrong idea in his head” too

Some of the isolationists are really against anyone who is not like them. America has this strong tradition from the time of country founding, when US tried to not get involved into endless wars between European powers. It served the country well and helped it develop while others were busy destroying each other. Until the time US became so strong that it became a moral issue where US is capable of changing the world to the better. This struggle happened in both WW1 and WW2, where US was not prepared militarily (Army was almost non-existent) but very capable due to industrial strength. (Btw, those who criticize FDR for not intervening enough on behalf of Jews, should also give him credit for pushing USA into the war despite strong opposition).

Republican party in 20th century had a sizeable isolationist minority (see Pat Buchanan, for example), and now Trump brought more of amei haaretz who used to be democrats (“uneducated” that he loves). Without this realignment, same amei haaretz would be joint with anti-Israeli left with way more damage. So, we need to recognize that democratic reality and try to work with or around them. Bibi did this brilliantly – by cleaning the path for B-2s from air defense and letting Trump take front stage with a spectacular makeh b’patish, allowing T to take credit but also claim that involvement is one-time only. As Chofetz Chaim sid – in uor times, one need to be klug, klug, and then frum.

TACO stands for GH likes to talk but doesnt know squat

I meant what I said. Hashem controls the minds of leaders. If we have a question, it is on Hashem. Of course Trump deserves a lot of credit for what he did.

Smerel you misinterpreted my statement. People were saying that Trump misled Iran on purpose by pretending to prefer negotiation as a stalling practice. My point was that really was Trump’s preference. But it turned out well for us.

Polling seems to suggest that the MAGA rank and file has suddenly rejected isolationism and redefined “America First” back to the Cold War bi-partisan agreement that America should be first in leading the Free World against tyrants. As the same time, as indicated by the New York Democratic primary, it appears that the Democrats are becoming the party of isolationism and open anti-Semitism. There are big shifts.

Enjoy your Nazi scum allies in the party of “Judeo-Christian” values. Republicans have been taking you for a ride 50 years now.

Baruch > isolationists have never been more strong in the Republican party than today

maybe “in a hundred years” – US closed borders to immigrants in 1924, I recall. But Trump’s “fault” is mostly in moving this crowd from D- or none to R-, resulting in his winning of two elections. We just saw that he is capable of acting internationally, even while within maga boundaries of not engaging in a long conflict. Yes, there is danger that a true maga leader will come after. But the alternative is/was – a smooth talking dems who promise something to every voter in order to win; and we saw how they govern – not good for the country and for the world. As I mentioned before, Bibi clearly showed his preference – he could have pushed the operation into January if he hoped for more support for the previous administration, especially after elections.

Aaq. All good points. The problem is that the energy and direction of the Republican party is now pointing in that direction including his very vice president. Also, if the Republican party is split into two, the normals and the fanatics, it could potentially ruin the party and or lose elections in the future. I suppose you could say the same is true to what’s happening in the Democratic party now as well, witness the mayoral election in New York. It’s a shikul hadaas and mine comes out different than yours.

Participant. I appreciate your respectful tone. I don’t believe that Trump has any true morals beyond supporting those who support him. It is because of this trait that he has brought in some many outright anti-semites into the party like no time in recent history. I care about Republican ideals. I think he’s ruining the party. I think it’s important to speak out against him.

Smerel: simple question. Would we have been better off with Nikki Haley?

I take back my suggestion that Bibi chose to do the operation under Trump. Latest reporting says that Bibi was trying to start this operation for some unspecified time period, clearly during Biden but maybe even during Obama times, but he was not supported by others in the security cabinet and haeds of agencies because of (1) fear of Iranian retaliation (2) concerns that US was not supportive. So, my main point that Israel preferred to do the op under Trump still stands, but it was not Bibi but others who were not sure of support under Ds. Bibi seemingly considered the attack itself more important.

Baruch > simple question. Would we have been better off with Nikki Haley

Not sure. Republicans had a pro-business anti-commie candidate Mitt Romney – and he was accused of all kind of silly things, including being laughed at for saying that Russia is a threat. He was such a gentleman that he did not fight back, hoping voters will figure it out. Well, they did not. Haley might have done better, but still similar. Trump is trying a lot of things (that others would not try) and reverses when things do not go right – as any good businessman does. As long as he does teshuva based on this feedback, I am fine with him trying his ideas. Many of the things are hard to evaluate before some time passes. But some are clear – his policy on China from first term was not reversed by Biden; his pro-oil/gas and increased NATO spending is working and accepted, at least on paper so far, by Europeans. On June 11, he did not want Israel to bomb; on June 12, he agreed; on June 13 he planned his own attack. This is fast enough.

Baruch > Israel is better off perhaps with someone that yields no power on decision making.

What do you mean? There are situations where indeed having a deadlock helps. For example, when either US or Israeli government is trying to do something wrong … most often happens when the government is trying to do “too much” as it is “natural” for politicians to pay off their voters with our money. But in foreign policy, US president has a lot of power and of he himself does not yield it, then people around him do. So, we get government by unelected officials, see Kafka’s Castle. Most of Obama/Biden policies were driven by people who did not have experience beyond being government officials and their policies were driven by the textbooks they were taught. During 202 elections, Biden tried to separate himself, putting articles in Jewish papers that he was the only one in O- administration who viewed Israel historically – not as an “occupier” – but remembering what environment Israel is in – from 1973 etc. I think this had some truth to it, as was he is supportive reaction towards Israel (and towards Ukraine) early on. But he clearly was not able to break through his helpers in a long term and he would not support, forget about initiate, any bold actions.

So relax it’s not all black and white and you see he defended netanyahu recently.