Mental Health and Judaism

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  • #1663490

    casper
    Participant

    I’ve been trying to read up on the intersection of Judaism and mental health. I know that in more religious communities there can sometimes be a stigma against these kinds of issues, and on the flip side there are Jewish mental health forums such as (Link removed) designed to support this community, so what I’m wondering is if there is any input from the Torah, Talmud, or rabbinic commentaries on mental health. I realize that it’s really only become something we talk about in the last twenty years or so, so its a bit of a longshot that any of these ancient texts would have any insight, but I was wondering what you guys think

    #1664526

    Joseph
    Participant

    Did you learn the Rambam?

    #1664531

    joe
    Participant

    Mental health is a very broad subject, what specifically where you looking for ?

    #1664595

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Unfortunately, too many families have let mental issues go untreated and unacknowledged because they were worried it would ruin the shidduch opportunities of their other children

    #1664794

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The potential for abuse in the mental healthcare system is ignored entirely.

    #1664861

    thinker333
    Participant

    What is the link the the forum or name of the forum

    #1667314

    The little I know
    Participant

    AJ:

    You wrote: “Unfortunately, too many families have let mental issues go untreated and unacknowledged because they were worried it would ruin the shidduch opportunities of their other children”

    You are certainly correct about that. What these families forget is that a psychiatric illness can be better covered up and kept secret if it is treated and there is absence of symptoms. Otherwise, one can safely say that there is no history of psychiatric illness, but the candidate is nuts. That actually reduces chance for a successful shidduch.

    Having noted this, withholding such information to facilitate a shidduch is, in my opinion, criminal behavior. I believe the Chofetz Chaim spoke about this, and that withholding such information is wrong. I leave it for others to quote the citation from the CC.

    #1667327

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    People have also kept (or tried to keep) heart conditions, deafness, Down’s Syndrome, diabetes, and limps secret so that it wouldn’t affect sibling’s shidduchim.

    Keeping information secret in shidduchim is a serious issue, as it can result in a mekach taos.

    #1667363

    Joseph
    Participant

    Not every secret causes a shidduch to fall into the halachic category of mekach taos. In fact, most don’t.

    #1667522

    DovidBT
    Participant

    … and I see [the judgement of] G-d from my flesh.
    Iyov 19:26

    #1667545

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Joseph, the serious ones do.

    #1746510

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    There is no such a thing as mental illness. The world has been taugh an innocent misunderstanding. Hashem made the human being, as a part of nature extremely resilient , yet we are taught to fear our thinking and feelings and we thus are taught to look outside for answers when all the answers are deep within the soul of every human being..

    For generations people lived by this understanding until psychologists got lost and attempted to understand the cause of psychological understanding by dealing with the thoughts and feelings, instead of seeing what creates them.

    The situation in the world of psychiatry is only getting worse, doctors are diagnosing countless millions of patients with ptsd , depression, bipolar, schizophrenia and hundreds of other names which increase by the year.

    These name are attempts by doctors to narrow doen certain feelings and thoughts, but the are all just different symptoms of chronic mental stress. This is where peoples understanding of how the mind works drops to the point where they take their thinking so seriously, that they get these symptoms.

    #1746580

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    You mean real mental health issues like schizophrenia, or the made-up stuff like ADD?

    #1746657

    The little I know
    Participant

    edited

    NCB:

    You seem convinced that ADD is made up. I feel bad for you. No, I’m not among those who want therapists in every classroom. And the average rebbe/teacher will encounter several students in their classroom whose learning styles do not fit with the mainstream curriculum. But the rebbe needs to deal with these things, not funnel kids off to therapists. Having said that, there are legitimate cases of ADHD and its variants that require interventions. These can include medications, therapy, and/or special tutoring. It is sad that often times, the diagnosis comes from educators, who are usually undertrained and ill equipped to render diagnostic labels or recommend treatment. We still have yeshivos who send talmidim home with instructions to medicate the kids before returning them to the classroom. This often results in parents twisting the arms of pediatricians to prescribe stimulants, with less than adequate evaluation by experienced professionals.

    Meanwhile, the mental health profession still has much to deal with
    edited

    #1746725

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I don’t deny that there are kids who are exceptionally hyper or have above average difficulty staying focused. I deny the 20th century concept that a very common and mundane human character trait like that should be labelled as a disorder and medicated. Especially when the medication turns the kids into zombies.

    #1746751

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    If that were true, you might be right. But you are either 20 years behind the times, or you are describing your daled Amos and thinking it applies everywhere

    #1746754

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I have found a problem that happened to my son where he was diagnosed ADHD. His rebbi knowng this, lowered his expectations and thereby he reinforced this diagnosis.

    #1746830

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “But you are either 20 years behind the times, or you are describing your sales Amos and thinking it applies everywhere”
    OK, I’m beat. I read this several times and cannot figure out what it means. What does sales amos mean?

    #1746833

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Laskern- that doesn’t make sense. That’s like saying your doctor told your wife you have diabetes so she stopped giving you candy and now it’s true. Lowered expectations *can* (potentially) cause lower performance, lower self confidence, lower motivation and lower grades. But it can’t change an attention span from typical to clinical levels. Your doctor seems to have been remiss in helping you understand the diagnosis

    #1746849

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    😂😂😂 sorry, i was slow on the edit!

    (Check it again)

    #1746898

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    It took away his accouragement thereby having less enthusiasm to learn and created a self fulfilling prophesy.

    #1746921

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    ADHD is not a prophecy. Taking away his encouragement resulting in less enthusiasm is awful, and can effect his overall productivity, but it cannot cause ADHD. Like I said, I think someone has not done right by you in explaining the diagnosis and how to understand and help your son.

    #1746930

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s not really possible to do an experiment to determine whether or not a diagnosis of ADHD is harmful.

    #1746932

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I’m sure people who weren’t crazy about lobotomies were also called “behind the times.”

    ADHD is fake. Everyone has his/her own attention span. Being less does not mean being disordered. Some people are just inferior. Weak parents refuse to admit this, and that’s why the myth works.

    #1746965

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Neville, in order to disagree with every single person on this thread, I am going to accuse you of indirect racism.

    #1746971

    Grey matter
    Participant

    I do believe there are dangers with psychologythat are sometimes ignored. I do believe sometimes psychology can be over diagnosed. Many people in this thread however are highlighting the major issue that the poster raised about stigmas in our communities. There are serious psychological issues some of wich can be seen on a brain scan and empirically proven. It isn’t simply ok to dismiss a tremendous amount of research and effective methodology based on your feelings. And yes hundreds of years ago there were no psychologists. People also gave birth at home the infant mortality rate was ENOURMOUS.

    #1746983

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Neville- your comments aren’t even legitimate enough to qualify as a troll post. And that’s besides being a wee bit too defensive about the topic.

    #1746984

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Grey matter, seeing something on a scan doesn’t prove it is a disorder. For a lot of conditions, that part is completely arbitrary.

    #1747058

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “Neville- your comments aren’t even legitimate enough to qualify as a troll post.”
    There are people in the scientific community who agree that ADD is not a true disorder. Are you offended that your kid who doesn’t get straight A’s might not have a golden excuse according to some?

    To say that humans have varying levels of intelligence is illegitimate beyond trolling? Wow. And, I bet you accuse younger people of being overly sensitive. Where do you think they get it? Newsflash: not all humans are born equal. Get over it.

    #1747068

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Who needs an excuse not to get straight As, and who even cares? My kids know that if I even bother opening their report card it’s to the back where the behavior is marked. Not sure why you wanted that info but to each his own.

    I didn’t say that it’s beyond trolling to say individuals have varying levels of intelligence. In fact, you never said such a thing in the post I opposed. Do you even read what you write? If so, why pick a random statement that wasn’t even made and pretend I was commenting on it?

    Accuse young people of being overly sensitive? Huh?

    Not all humans are born equal and I should get over it… because I claim different people have different make up…hmmm… not sure what that means either.

    Maybe this topic is too touchy for you as you seem to be having trouble keeping your points organized as you usually do.

    🤷🏻‍♀️

    #1747072

    Mistykins
    Participant

    Neville says “You mean real mental health issues like schizophrenia, or the made-up stuff like ADD?”

    The irony is that a well known psychiatrist said schizophrenia doesn’t exist back in 2016. But where does your belief end? ADHD doesn’t have a proper test. Neither does Fibromyalgia, MS, lupus, or autism. Do they not exist?

    Unfortunately we live in a world where any child that doesn’t conform needs a label. If people stopped giving into their kids and started parenting (disciplining), removed sugars and dyes, shut off the electronics, and made their kids run around, about half the cases of autism, ODD, and ADHD would disappear. Then the doctors could treat the kids that really needed it.

    And as someone who grew up with ADHD, there is a beauty to it. We can multitask in a way most people can’t. We see solutions that most people can’t, and solve problems differently. (When I started ADD medications I lost that ability). We have more energy. Similarly, people with autism (another “fake” condition) can be savants and have huge advantages in certain fields.

    But back to illness, mental or otherwise. There are issues that can be cured if they are treated early enough, but too many parents are afraid to share the truth. We have come a long way from simply putting people in a home, but we have a long way to go. If someone isn’t violent, they deserve to live the way they were created.

    #1747073

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “Do you even read what you write?”
    Not usually. It’s free form. When I’m at my best, I have no idea what I’m saying, and it riles everyone up who needs to be riled, and I just go from there. Adar was peak Neville.

    Wait, so you see eye to eye with me on this topic? You and me are actually similar in a lot of areas, so I don’t want to expound a thread over nothing.

    #1747079

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “If people stopped giving into their kids and started parenting (disciplining), removed sugars and dyes, shut off the electronics, and made their kids run around”

    Haha! Are you really pretending sugar and dyes effect behaviir? (FAke news!) And you put it on par with screentime and exercise? Too funny.
    “, about half the cases of autism, ODD, and ADHD would disappear. ”

    Sheer lunacy

    #1747078

    Grey matter
    Participant

    Neville-I am not sure what people you are referring to and what it takes to be a part of Neville’s scientific community, but what does attention deficit have to do with intelligence. That is like saying I can’t be on the NBA bec I can’t see the basket. I see fine:I can’t be on the NBA because I don’t have the physique, stamina, endurance aim and a host of other things.(corrected some mistakes)

    #1747084

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Can you provide a rational reason not to consider attention span a type of intelligence?

    #1747087

    Mistykins
    Participant

    Syag says “Haha! Are you really pretending sugar and dyes effect behaviir? (FAke news!) And you put it on par with screentime and exercise? Too funny”

    I have a friend whose daughter went nuts every time she ate a particular dye. And while sugar doesn’t affect behavior directly, poor eating affects the body tremendously.

    And yes, screen time certainly affects behavior. Phones have blue light filters because using electronics before bed affects the release of certain hormones. Sleep depravation mimics ADHD symptoms.

    Watching large amounts of television affects the release of certain hormones (dopamine) in the brain, which affects behavior. A child that doesn’t get out isn’t burning excess energy, which can affect their ability to focus. Want to test it on your own? Grab a group of young boys and make them run a few laps before a lesson. See how much quieter they are.

    Further, watching tv may show empathy by sharing a conflict and resolution, but do not allow kids to experience the concept of turn taking, sharing, etc. A child that doesn’t know how to interact with peers may struggle to do so in class, which will cause doctors to slap on a label on a child that isn’t correct.

    Perhaps “half” is a bit of a stretch. But the point is sometimes a person has to really look into the causes of their child’s issues, and make some changes instead of asking a doctor to write a script because their son isn’t paying proper attention.

    #1747103

    Grey matter
    Participant

    RY23 sure I’ll try and do that but first please give me a working definition of intelligence.try and be a little specific not just literal

    #1747157

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Grey matter, why should I be responsible for the definition of intelligence? Following the common definition, attention span should be considered a factor of intelligence, because it is necessary in order to acquire knowledge or skills.

    #1747255

    The little I know
    Participant

    There are two separate issues being discussed here, and the confusion of the two complicates the clarity.

    There is considerable empirical support for psychiatric illness, and there is much discussed even in the Talmud. While psychiatry is a soft science (as opposed to hard science – those about things that can be accurately observed and measured), it remains a science which is primarily based on research, not theory. Whether something is a legitimate illness or condition is something i would seek from research, not commenters in the CR. Anyone is free to have an opinion, but one’s belief does not constitute fact.

    The second issue is the child in the school setting that is not performing according to some preconceived notions. This calls into play the mission of the yeshiva/classroom, what is the understanding of a child’s inability to perform to perfection (or close) on academic tasks (such as tests), and the ability of the school and faculty to accommodate to help the child.

    On the latter, the ADHD diagnosis is a legitimate one, though it has its naysayers. It exists on a spectrum of severity, and there are a variety of symptoms that can exist in various combinations and levels. It is a problem that there are those that fling this label wherever they want, while lacking training to know just when to apply it. It is abused by many in the education field, sometimes being ignored, other times being used to label a child unnecessarily. I bet the medications are overused, but there are also times when withholding the medications is a mistake. The ideal would be for experts to make these determinations. It is often that the symptoms of the ADHD issues are observed in the academic setting, and hardly elsewhere. This responsibility falls on the educators, many of whom are not equipped to handle it.

    Just as one cannot use discipline to treat a fever, it is misapplied when used for learning issues, ADHD, and many other behavioral problems. There is a role for discipline, but it often requires much to know just when it is appropriate.

    We need not to confuse the issues of mental health and education.

    #1747539

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Poor performance in a modern school setting is not a symptom of any kind of problem with the child.

    #1747754

    Non Political
    Participant

    Thus far the mental health professions have not inspired a whole lot of confidence in these areas. It’s an open question if overall they help more then they hurt. I’m not suggesting that we throw out the baby with the bathwater. Just that, in this case, there is an awful lot of bathwater.

    #1747750

    PuhLease
    Participant

    Just to add my two cents in…
    I am a PhD and worked with children for several decades…
    There is a VAST difference between legitimate Attention and Attention Deficient/Hyperactivity Disorders and conduct disorders or behavioral disorders. Children will generally act out in school if there is something going on at home that they cannot control, if they are bored in class, or if they haven’t had adequate sleep or nutrition. There are studies that show a direct correlation between ADHD and lack of sleep or even sleep disorders in children. In today’s world, unfortunately, children are not getting the same amount of sleep, play time outside or nutrition.

    A Vitamin D deficiency in people will frequently start when children are young, and do not get enough sunshine. Lack of Vitamin D can lead to all sorts of medical issues (especially in men) as people get older.
    ADHD and ADD can be treated with appropriate medication. If the child is “zombied out” in class or at home, they are either on the wrong medication or their dosage is way too high. ADHD and ADD medication should never be used in order to control behavior. Children who may display symptoms of ADD and ADHD should be seen by a Child Psychiatrist as well as their primary care physician prior to taking any psychotropic medication, and the child should be carefully monitored after taking such medications. However, it is also encouraged that children taking psychotropic medications should be seen by a therapist, licensed social worker, counselor or psychologist for cognitive behavioral therapy. The child would need to learn to control his behavior WITH the medication, the medication should not be expected to fix, or cure, the child. Thus, when a child misbehaves, it can’t be blamed on whether or not he or she took their daily medication, but the child needs to understand that the medication is only one step of the process, they also have to be invested in their behaviors.

    If the child does not have ADD or ADHD, but they are just acting out or severely misbehaving, regardless of the reason, their actions should be controlled through CBT or DBT, NOT through medications. The child has to learn appropriate behaviors in and out of public or they are in danger of developing a conduct disorder.

    Conduct disorders can lead directly to psychopathic behaviors as they get older. If a child with a behavior or conduct disorder is medicated, the underlying problem is never resolved, all you would have is a child that is such a zombie, he is physically unable to do anything, not school work, not play time, nothing. So all you essentially have is a chemically lobotomized child, who will never learn the right way to behave in public or in various situations.

    Again, just my two cents, education and years of experience talking…

    #1747790

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “And yes, screen time certainly affects behavior”

    I know. My comment was geared toward your attempt to insinuate that eating sugar and dyes is as legitimate an issue as screen time.

    PuhLease – thank you, well put. And glad to see you, you sound well!

    #1747793

    PuhLease
    Participant

    @Syag Lchochma

    Thank you. Interestingly enough, I’m anything but. I won’t put my name, Hebrew or otherwise on here, but.. if you daven.. please keep me in mind.

    Thanks

    #1747797

    The little I know
    Participant

    PuhLease:

    I appreciate your comment, articulate, evidence based, and rational. You explained far eloquently than I did about the interplay between education and emotion, being different issues, yet coexisting.

    A theme for me, is that schools and yeshivos have engaged in crowd control, filling classrooms beyond the normal teaching control of a single teacher. One of the main tools used is discipline. If that succeeds at controlling the class, fine. But it fails miserably at teaching. And that explains why the successes in our yeshivos are mostly correlated with the internal motivation to learn. And since we cookie cut the curriculum, it is a challenge to adapt it to students whose learning styles are different from the average (or perceived norm). So the poorly performing student is tagged as someone with a problem, and this only feeds the system of disciplining him. The alternative is the labeling and sending the child for a host of evaluations, consultations, and outside interventions. Yes, there are those who need the additional attention and services. But others just need the Rebbe or teacher to extend the helping hand. And this can be done without public embarrassment.

    Meanwhile it is equally destructive to whitewash the entire diagnostic category of attentional disorders as to shoot the label at any student that does not conform to the predetermined “norm”.

    #1747823

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    PuhLease- I am so sorry!! Gd willing I will keep you in mind. You should have a refuah and yeshua.

    #1747815

    Grey matter
    Participant

    Thank you to most of the recent posters for creating what is now a thoughtful discussion.

    #1747819

    PuhLease
    Participant

    Oh, and another thing… to Rabbi of Crawly…

    PTSD is actually a clear and rather significant mental disorder in today’s world The sheer amount of trauma that law enforcement officers, fire service officers, emergency medical services, doctors and nurses, as well as military veterans, especially those that have seen combat, takes its toll on the brain.

    The human brain is not designed to take a life without some form of consequence. There is a reason why the homicide, suicide, divorce and addiction rates among police officers especially, are so high. And it’s not because some doctor or some psychiatrist somewhere told these individuals that there was something wrong with them. Quite the contrary. Individual counselors and medical doctors who are fully aware of the lifestyle of people who lose lives or take lives will tell you that it causes irreparable damage to the human psyche. But those that have never had any experience or exposure to what first responders deal with, would be happy to say some of the same ignorant and irresponsible things that you have stated. And ANY of us that experience mild, moderate or even severe Post Traumatic Stress, will tell you that it is very VERY real.

    And, for the record, stress (as a simple definition) is merely the body’s reaction to change. Stress by itself is neutral, the cause of that stress is what determines whether the stress is good or bad, and how the body will respond to it. For example, having a baby causes stress on both the mother and the father, but it is a positive source of stress. Having a four year old die in your arms also causes stress, but it is a very negative stress. Both examples will cause a change in lifestyle, but one is going to be positive (hopefully) and one will always be negative, though both will cause years of change to that person.

    #1747840

    PuhLease
    Participant

    @The Little I know.
    1. Thank you.
    2. I am going to ramble, and go from subject to subject, and probably lose you a few times because I have MANY squirrel moments as I like to call them. I am SEVERELY ADHD AND ADD, but still managed to stay focused enough to get my many worthless pieces of expensive paper without drugs.
    3. I both agree and disagree with some of what you wrote. You are correct that the yeshivos and even the public schools are filled to beyond capacity. However, the interplay between discipline and education often don’t work because the rebbeim and teachers are not taught HOW to teach. Often they are people who need jobs within that community, and poof, instant teacher. But they are not teachers nor instructors. In the “days of old” you had rebbeim and teachers smacking or hitting the students with rulers or even worse, with their hands, causing the children to fear both going to school and learning. This caused generations of students not only to hate learning, but to harbor decades and decades of resentment towards schools, religion, families, and so on, only causing more pain, which often then manifested more abuse, whether in families or in communities.

    Sadly, violence often begets violence, and cycles perpetuate themselves unless consciously broken (which is a very difficult thing to do).

    These days, there are more educated rebbeim and teachers and morahs even, but it’s rare to find any of these people holding valid state teachers licenses. It’s not like college or university is strongly encouraged. But when it comes to educating our children, education of the teachers should be TOP priority, and it’s really not.

    There is a blatant lack of respect that is almost subconsciously encouraged by the schools in how their “English” or General Studies teachers are treated. Regardless if that teacher is frum or not, the English and General Studies teachers are often paid far less, not treated the same with regards to “Bonuses” at yomim tovim or summer break, and left out at Chanukah time because they are (as I was told for many years) “just an English teacher” (even though for quite a large number of years I was the ONLY teacher in the entire school to hold a valid teachers license). Children see that, and learn from it.

    Keep in mind btw, that because I was “just an English teacher” I was not entitled to maternity/paternity leave when my children were born, causing terrible financial hardship. But again, that did not matter because I was “just an English teacher”. But I digress… going back to your comment….

    A well trained teacher or rebbe knows exactly how to handle both education and discipline in his/her classroom, and can do so without interrupting the flow of the class. A really good teacher/rebbe will keep the ‘troublemaker’ in class, and will adapt his/her teaching style to those of the children in his/her class. For example, a teacher might teach the same unit in visual, audible, and tactile styles, ensuring that all the learning styles of the class are met. And a teacher for older students will ask their students how they learn best, since by high school most children know in what way the information sticks with them. A VERY good teacher will make sure to adapt his or her lessons each year to ensure that the material does not get boring, and that the students will actually learn something year to year. The teacher cannot be bored with his or her lesson either, because that will translate to the students getting bored. The first year I taught, I leaned against the door jam as I was lecturing, and essentially bored myself to sleep. I realized that if I was bored enough to fall asleep WHILE talking/teaching, my students were even more so. I immediately changed everything about the way that I taught.

    Teaching and educational methods, along with ways to ensure that lessons work, how to evaluate those lessons, and how to deal with children with behavioral needs, special needs, ADHD and ADD children, even children on the pervasive development scale, could all have those needs met in a multi stage and mainstream classroom, but these methods that are taught, and often taught WELL in college. But, college educated teachers are far and few between in yeshivos and day schools.

    3. You are absolutely correct about cookie cutter lessons, but again, there are ways for a creative teacher to “spice” those lessons up, and change them, even slightly, from year to year. What unfortunately does not change, is that schools that get any money from the government for any reasons, are required to have their students take state exams of some kind, all of which are standardized. Thus, the teacher finds him or herself teaching to a test, which is basically a lot of useless information that the children will never, ever use.

    Additionally, there are a large number of extremely bright, intelligent children, who do not test well, and therefore, are then labeled and stuck in classes that are not good for them, often boring, etc. (which can then cause additional problems), all because of an asinine test that hasn’t changed since its inception, and is essentially a tool that sets many children up for failure. And those children, because they have been improperly labeled or tagged, will therefore never have their true educational needs met.

    Norms, as you state, are a very very dangerous thing. By definition, and of course statistically, a child that doesn’t meet that specified percentage of the “norm”, or doesn’t quite meet the required numbers, is then statistically set up for failure each and every year post that first test. The first failure that a child becomes vitally aware of, will be the measurement that both they, and the schools, will measure them for the remainder of their academic career. Making a predetermined norm is likely one of the most destructive things that schools, as well as diagnosticians could have possibly done.

    I could give an individual an assessment and if that individual scores a 31 or higher on certain scales, they would be “predetermined” to be a psychopath, exhibit psychopathic behaviors, etc. If that individual becomes aware of their score, they then have an excuse to behave in an inexcusable manner, saying “well, this is what I am because someone told me that this is what I am. Take it up with them”. If the person has no knowledge of where he or she falls on the psychopathy checklist, he or she could end up becoming something brilliant and amazing. Perhaps he or she goes on to cure cancer. That person never takes advantage of his potential situation just because they might fall on a scale set up by a person or group of people who think one way and one way only.

    And, it is in my personal opinion, that conforming to any predetermined norm has the potential to be very dangerous. People become sheeple instead of potential leaders, children with exceptional imaginations have them lectured or beaten out of them, when the imagination could have created something amazing. Conformation… is dangerous if not done correctly. We are not encouraging our children to be something amazing and wonderful, something different. We are telling them to do exactly what the rest of the children do. So, if the rest of the children act like vilde chayas, then we are telling our child, conform to that, that’s the way to do it. If as adults, the general norm is to cheat and lie on one’s taxes, and then use HUD, Welfare, Medicaid and food stamps… that’s the norm that we anticipate out children will conform to. But it’s still not right, even if everyone else is doing it.
    Additionally, I want to add something that is “hinted to” but not stated outright. Just because a child is different in how he or she thinks, or that individual questions G-d, or even his or her religious observance, does not mean that this person is mentally ill or unstable. And, it is exceptionally important in today’s day and age, that we not immediately insist that people who act differently, perhaps not as “expected” or a person does not “conform” to something he or she is morally, ethically, or simply just opposed to, immediately run to seek mental health assistance. We do a tremendous disservice to people when we take someone who does not conform, and stick them with a mentally ill tag.

    #1747899

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Many cases of PTSD are preventable.

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