January 3, 2016 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1122719
PBA -“Does the OU hold it is permitted by halacha to break federal law?”
I’m sure that they don’t. But they realize that in those states where it’s legal, the Feds aren’t gonna prosecute anyone!January 3, 2016 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1122720
Moi Aussie -“Medicinal Cannabis has worked for thousands of people in California where it is legal.”
I’m not going into the debate whether it works or not. But in states where it’s legal, they were just looking for an excuse to smoke Pot! What no one mentioned, is that in the US they have a pill form that is legal. That wasn’t good enough for the libs in those states!January 3, 2016 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #1122721frumnotyeshivishParticipant
Health- dina dimalchusa dina depends on prosecutorial discretion?January 3, 2016 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #1122722JosephParticipant
FNY: Yes. Jaywalking on Shabbos in Boro Park’s empty streets is not a violation of DDDina even though it’s technically violating the law, though police ignore it.January 3, 2016 11:00 pm at 11:00 pm #1122723Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
Moi Aussie, the only one confusing marijuana with medical cannabis here is you. The OU gave a hechsher to recreational marijuana, not cannabis oil to be used in pharmaceuticals; let’s stay on topic. Putting the word “medical” in front of something doesn’t magically make it any different. Nobody has responded to the point I made earlier (because they can’t): why should every other drug have to wait in line with the FDA while pot can just bypass it? Try lobbying your state to legalize other substances that the FDA doesn’t approve of, see how that goes for you.January 3, 2016 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #1122724
According to the company’s CEO, the hechsher is for vaporization cartridges, oils and capsules. Sounds medical to me.January 4, 2016 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1122725
marijuana is dangerous im a maybe (probably) future pharmacist.January 4, 2016 12:18 am at 12:18 am #1122726feivelParticipant
“Nobody has responded to the point I made earlier (because they can’t)”
I will. Not because I want to, but because I can.
It does not have to pass FDA scrutiny because at this point it is considered an herbal supplement. It cannot be marketed to cure any medical condition. If the marketing claims any possible medical benefit it will have to be accompanied by a “statement hasn’t been evaluated by FDA” type disclaimer. No different than Vitamin E, Ginko, Bilberry, etc. ad nauseum, and the already existing multi billion dollar pseudo medical alternative industry. A number of which products have been found to have potential serious side effects, including dependency and addiction such as Guanara and ephedraJanuary 4, 2016 12:33 am at 12:33 am #1122727
PBA -“Have you ever wondered why drugs which are much more addictive and dangerous are available by prescription but marijuana is not? It’s because morphine and Demerol have medical benefits. So any doctor who prescribes marijuana is disagreeing with the government agencies whose job is to figure out what drugs work for what”
You’re being dishonest here! They do make marijuana (THC) in a pill form called Marinol. Just the Pot heads want an excuse to get high by smoking it! This is what happens when the states put in liberal politicians into office.January 4, 2016 12:44 am at 12:44 am #1122728feivelParticipant
Probably a closer comparison is to liquor.
Due to the layers of control even outside FDA perviewJanuary 4, 2016 1:03 am at 1:03 am #1122729ItcheSrulikMember
Popa: Actually, it was made law by act of congress. Since the justice department wasn’t prosecuting it anyway, they made it illegal for the justice department to prosecute. The politics behind the drug war are ridiculous.January 4, 2016 1:31 am at 1:31 am #1122730popa_bar_abbaParticipant
You’re being dishonest here! They do make marijuana (THC) in a pill form called Marinol. Just the Pot heads want an excuse to get high by smoking it! This is what happens when the states put in liberal politicians into office.
I was aware of that, and if anything it makes my point stronger. I focused on the clearest arguments though.January 4, 2016 1:41 am at 1:41 am #1122731
As someone who is doing the pre pharmacy program and taken many classes related to pharmacy school including bio CHEM (Chem is the main one in pharmacy school since you need to know all the chemical reactions to make the medicine) and many other classes related to the field i will highly agree that marijuana is 100% a drug it destroys the brain and it is NOT meant for anyone to take unless their a druggy and want to destroy their brain.January 4, 2016 2:47 am at 2:47 am #1122732MammeleParticipant
To claim that morphine has more medical benefits while ignoring the fact that it definitely has greater risks — including death by overdosing — is really acting like a blind FDA stooge.January 4, 2016 3:18 am at 3:18 am #1122733charliehallParticipant
“According to the FDA and DEA, marijuana has not medical benefit or use. “
There is actually a lot of evidence that it has some medical benefits. And it is quite safe in the ordinary sense because the number of persons to have died from the acute effects of smoking marijuana appears to be zero — even if you go back through the entire history of the world! The FDA and DEA have to follow the lead of Congress here. Unfortunately.
What I do not understand is the OU putting a hechsher on a product that is a schedule I controlled substance (like heroin) and therefore illegal for any and all purposes in all fifty states and all five territories. While it should be no worse than a schedule II controlled substance (like cocaine) which is legal for medical use, that is not its current status.January 4, 2016 3:25 am at 3:25 am #1122734
i agree drugs should NOT be taken unless NEEDED because otherwise the person can be in great danger and die chasvichallila.January 4, 2016 3:40 am at 3:40 am #1122735
PBA -“I was aware of that, and if anything it makes my point stronger”
What are you talking about? If anything, I proved that you’re wrong! You should go back to treating 1 car victim accidents.
“According to the FDA and DEA, marijuana has not medical benefit or use.”
There is a reason why the government approved Marinol. It works, no matter what you say!January 4, 2016 3:41 am at 3:41 am #1122736
and therefore illegal for any and all purposes in all fifty states and all five territories.
It is legal on state level in over thirty states, and although technically illegal on the federal level, that statute has no teeth because the DOJ has been banned from accessing federal funds to prosecute.January 4, 2016 3:43 am at 3:43 am #1122737
Amphetamines are prescribed recklessly and abused carefully.January 4, 2016 3:51 am at 3:51 am #1122738
is it normal that im doing pre pharmacy and am not really interested in this conversation?January 4, 2016 4:39 am at 4:39 am #1122739Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
MsPrincess: Yes, it’s normal to be uninterested in arguments between people who have no idea what they’re talking about, who will pay no heed to you when you do know what you’re talking about.
Point is, the OU either hechshered something that’s against federal law and provides no benefit, or they hechshered something that needs no hechsher just to make a statement or make some money. The argument quickly and predictably turned into a marijuana argument. As for the initial post, has anyone denied that this was a bit low for the OU to do?January 4, 2016 4:43 am at 4:43 am #1122740
i do agree it was low of the ou to do that as marijuana is a serious drug.January 4, 2016 5:50 am at 5:50 am #1122742
Charlie -“What I do not understand is the OU putting a hechsher on a product that is a schedule I controlled substance (like heroin) and therefore illegal for any and all purposes in all fifty states and all five territories”
What is so hard to understand? The liberal states have basically done away from the legal status. This makes the company that makes the pot to seek more customers. There’s a big market for the kosher consumer!January 4, 2016 6:45 am at 6:45 am #1122743
even if a company may want to pay the ou for such a thing they should have said no.January 4, 2016 11:32 am at 11:32 am #1122744
As for the initial post, has anyone denied that this was a bit low for the OU to do?
YesJanuary 4, 2016 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #1122745
MsPrincess -“even if a company may want to pay the ou for such a thing they should have said no.”
For all those posters cursing out the OU, the other Hechshairim are No better. They did it for money. They are all the same, from the Frummist of the Frum they are all in competition for the big bucks!January 4, 2016 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1122746
the federal government has said they will not be enforcing the federal laws where state laws have said it is legalJanuary 4, 2016 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1122747
health – i agree they may have done it for the money but it just makes it even more wrong.January 4, 2016 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #1122748popa_bar_abbaParticipant
While granted there isn’t the risk of overdose leading to death that many other drugs have, aren’t there significant health risks including that it literally makes users stupider?
Also, agreed absolutely. The main issue I have is the optics that we have a religious institution getting involved in illegal activities, even though the DOJ is currently not prosecuting cases (my understanding is they could change their mind on a dime, retroactively).January 4, 2016 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #1122749
There are legal drugs that make people stupider. I wasn’t always this dumb.January 4, 2016 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #1122750
The main issue I have is the optics that we have a religious institution getting involved in illegal activities, even though the DOJ is currently not prosecuting cases (my understanding is they could change their mind on a dime, retroactively).
This is where I disagree. The state declared it legal, and the federal government not only said they’re mixing out, they passed a law to that effect. It does not look like they’re getting involved in something illegal.January 4, 2016 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1122751
While granted there isn’t the risk of overdose leading to death that many other drugs have, aren’t there significant health risks including that it literally makes users stupider?
I don’t know how significant or immediate or likely that effect is, but in some cases (perhaps such as writersoul’s grandmother a”h), we’re dealing with patients who are dying, on chemo to extend life as long as possible, and suffering from it.January 4, 2016 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #1122752
reb yidd – it makes them stupider because it ruins their brain. it gets rid of brain stem cells.January 4, 2016 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #1122753
Pot really isnt anymore dangerous than Alchol or Cigarettes. Im not saying you should smoke pot, you shouldnt. But Cigarettes and Alchol kill more than pot does.
Cirrhosiss of the liver and other Alchol related diseases kill alot as does cigarette related diseasesJanuary 4, 2016 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #1122754
MsPrincess, other drugs do the same and aren’t banned. And if cannabis would be illegal because of it’s drug properties, the non-drug variety would be legal.January 4, 2016 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #1122755
i dont know about that people dont wake up from pot.January 4, 2016 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1122756apushatayidParticipant
“or they hechshered something that needs no hechsher”
Go up and down the aisles of your local supermarket, paying special attention to the laundry detergent and cleaning product supplies aisle. Sadly, kashrus symbols have become marketing tools for many companies and the kashrus agencies are only too happy to oblige them.January 4, 2016 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1122757
MsPrincess, I truly do not know what you mean to express. Please explain.January 4, 2016 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1122758
Marijuana impairs your thinking, and kills your brain cells. i have heard of a guy who went to college with someone i know and took marijuana and did not wake up the next day. this especially happens when you take it with other medicines. most people who are pro marijuana are the ones who take it themselves. i have yet to meet someone pro marijuana who didnt take it themselves. even non jews do not take marijuana and are anti it for the same reason. we have many college class discussions discussing the cons and pros (the pros were all proven false) of marijuana and there are people there who have admitted to having taken it and they say how many issues it has given them. Take for example someone who is paralyzed and all they have left is there brain and they have lost everything else and marijuana has been said to help take off pain would they rather lose everything including their ability to think and do things in order to take off of their pain and suffering of their sickness? i didnt think so. pro proven false. Hashem does NOT want us to harm ourselves or our bodies marijuana does so why would a place who is working to help us keep kosher for Hashem give us the ability to destroy ourselves when Hashem doesnt want us destroying ourselves? It destroys our ability to learn which means it destroys our ability to learn Hashem’s Torah why would the ou do such a thing?January 4, 2016 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #1122759
But cannabis should be legal because not all cannabis is marijuana or can be used as a drug.January 4, 2016 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #1122760
DOESN’T matter anything that can destroy a person should NOT be made legal. The legal things will be sold at my store h’h and as a good religious trustworthy pharmacist i will make sure everyone knows which is the right medicine and safe medicine they need and marijuana is NOT one of those things.January 4, 2016 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #1122761Matan1Participant
MsPrincess, I apologize for the tone of my post, but as the relative of someone who’s suffering was greatly relieved by medical marijuana, I must respond.
“Marijuana impairs your thinking, and kills your brain cells”
So does alcohol. Are we banning that, which has no medicinal benefit?
“i have heard of a guy who went to college with someone i know and took marijuana and did not wake up the next day.”
Oh, you heard about a guy who knows a guy? Clearly it must be true.
“this especially happens when you take it with other medicines.”
Mixing any medicines is a terrible idea. Nothing to do with marijuana.
“i have yet to meet someone pro marijuana who didnt take it themselves.”
Hi. Nice to meet you.
“there are people there who have admitted to having taken it and they say how many issues it has given them”
You have classmates who suffer from chemotherapy and multiple sclerosis? I’m very sorry to hear that. But if you mean they did it recreationally, then it is irrelevant.
“Take for example someone who is paralyzed and all they have left is there brain and they have lost everything else and marijuana has been said to help take off pain would they rather lose everything including their ability to think and do things in order to take off of their pain and suffering of their sickness? i didnt think so. pro proven false.”
I really hope you are never in a position like this, but unless you are in the shoes of someone who is suffering, and can be helped by medical marijuana, you have no right to make a comment like this. It is most certainly not “pro proven false”.January 4, 2016 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #1122762
Alcohol and Cigarettes can destroy a person is legal.
Also Gambling can destroy a person and that is legal tooJanuary 4, 2016 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #1122763Matan1Participant
Would you give someone Vicodin or Percocet? Those seem to be a lot more harmful then marijuana.January 4, 2016 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #1122764
So the following should be illegal too:
Carrot family (poison hemlock is a plant of the carrot family and none of the plants in the family are good medicine)
SSRIs (an overdose or stopping abruptly can be terrible)
Wood (if clopped on someone’s head can kill them and it isn’t the right medicine)
Bananas (slipping on a banana peel can be dangerous, plus it is not the right medicine)
Marriage (can end in divorce and destroy someone, and is not the medicine people need to treat illness)
Tea (unhealthy if smoked, and doesn’t cure cancer)
Fire (can destroy and is not the right medicine to treat any illness)
Cotton (about as effective as hemp in destroying people and less effective than marijuana as a drug to treat illness)
Cars (Can kill people, are not a safe or effective medicine to treat illness)
Pokeberries (Toxic to humans, no medicinal value)January 4, 2016 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1122765
MsPrincess -“health – i agree they may have done it for the money but it just makes it even more wrong”
Stop trying to change the world. There is nothing wrong with a Kashrus org. trying to make a buck. They are all doing it, right or wrong! Take your anger elsewhere.January 4, 2016 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #1122766
matan – i actually have classmates who have cancer and i am actually related very closely with someone with multiple sclerosis so i definitely know about them taking it. i also know druggies some pretty well actually and some who stopped taking drugs this is information i have taken off of all these people combined. as you can see i am actually very anti marijuana thanks to them. i would not give that to them either. my sister had a guy in her class who was jewish and otd and died thanks to marijuana and did not wake up the next day i trust my sister for saying that especially since like the whole community went to his levaya. (next time when someone says that dont assume they dont know anyone with cancer and ms when i unfortunately have relatives with these issues which is one of the main reasons i want to major in what im going for.)
zahavasdad – it should be made illegal.January 4, 2016 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #1122767
reb yidd – some your exaggerating on and some your right they should be illegal.January 4, 2016 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #1122768apushatayidParticipant
Does regulated = banned?January 4, 2016 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1122769
Which of the things I listed should be illegal? And why do you believe hemp should be illegal despite not being dangerous or a drug?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.