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If we don’t test we have no cases. Thiis is called ostrich politics, hiding your face in the sand thinking if we don’t see it, the problem will go away.
We’ve done more tasting than any other country and continue to expand capability. Take your head out of the sand.
We have more people affected, by a gigantic number. If I would act like he does, you would not call me stupid, You would call me immature. What is this about? The President? Or the virus?
Trump never should have bought the media story about this being a dangerous plague. They had a panic over ventilators, then it turned out they are more likely to kill than heal. He bought the line that this is a hard to catch plague (meaning lockdowns would be effective), but one that was very bad if you caught it. Now they they can look for antibodies, it turns out to be easy to catch (meaning lockdowns won’t help much), but 90% of the “victims” don’t get sick enough to worry about testing (and meaning the death rate instead of being something similar to the Influenza of 1918 or Smallpox or Bubonic plague, is closer to the annual flu that kills thousands ever year. — Meanwhile he deliberately crashed the economy, robbed people of their savings, undermined their livelihood, and doomed many people (albeit not in the US) to a horrible death due to starvation caused by a breakdown in world trade. — In his defense, he did admit to be paranoid about germs (which explains his overreaction), and he is not as nuts as the Democrats who seem to consider destroying everyone’s economic means of existence to be a good thing. Trump may be a fool, but the Democrats are totalitarian wannabees.
The country has produced tests as fast as humanely possible given the chemical shortages required for producing the tests.
The senile Biden needs to get out of his basement a little.
Dear Akuperma,
A President is supposed to be able to listen to expert opinions. He should not be watching television all day. It seems people buy a media narrative, way more than the media story. The american media downplayed the severity of this virus, and helped delay the response. Go look at the facts on the ground on any day in march, and compare it with the news cycle of that day.Dear Joseph,
Is that an opinion? Rhetoric? Sarcasm? Why do I always feel like I am missing the joke? If we want to talk sensibly about the pandemic, we should reference scientists, not politicians.“then it turned out they are more likely to kill than heal.”
This is not true.“He bought the line that this is a hard to catch plague (meaning lockdowns would be effective),”
This is not correct. If it is hard to catch, lockdowns are not needed. Just wash your hands be a bit careful and you’ll be fine.“it turns out to be easy to catch (meaning lockdowns won’t help much)”
Again, This is not true (and I can’t make sense of it, I assume there is a typo. If it is hard to catch there is no reason for lockdown. It is BECAUSE it is so easy to catch that lockdowns were needed. )“, is closer to the annual flu that kills thousands ever year”
This isnt true . For example last year 34,000 died from the flu in the Us Covid 19 has so far killed 87,000 (thats more than 34,000) and this is IN ADDITION to flu deaths.“Trump may be a fool”
This is trueReb e- that statement is in the context of cases reported. If a country decides not to do testing, they will have few cases documented. Only the ones who get admitted to hospitals. If you do more testing, there are more numbers reported. To twist that into an implication that not testing means people don’t get sick is untrue
No need to be rude. You said it over incorrectly twice. I was clarifying your misunderstanding. Your response makes no sense.
Joseph: How humane should we be when producing a test?
Why are Coffee Room’s discussions the most hateful during Sefiras Haomer? Does the Satan kick in especially now?
Dear Defend,
Being blunt or sharp, is not an indicator of hate. Lack of patience, maybe. An attempt to highlight the point, likely.good Shabbos
Reb Eliezer,
I’m going to go out on a limb and presume you are getting your news from FakeNews CNN, FakeNews msLSD or something like that because the president said no such thing. And if he did, you’re picking it up out of context.The fact remains, the reason why positives are going up is because of all the testing that’s going on. Just because someone tests positive doesn’t mean that they are very sick and are going to die BH. Try to take a look at the numbers and see what the percentages really are. That should be fairly easy for you.
Not to minimize the people who we’ve lost ch’v but the numbers are infinitesimally smaller than what we were being scared into thinking only 2 months ago.
Trump has been better than all other presidents. Stop speaking bad about him.
Dear Jersey,
Which news outlet one follows does not matter here., It only matters if they cannot do math themselves. Take any official count, and tell us how this country is in good shape. Additionally, a lot of the testing is reactive, not proactive. (There is still no cohesive plan how to test and track cases.) Factor in the geography of the various hot spots, and the country as a whole is in a really bad spot. It seems like it is up to regional groups. (Like the northeast Governors joining together. The Great Lake Region and the Pacific Coast States.) Or each Governor for themeself.JJ: No one is suggesting that we would have had substantial fatalities even if the Trumpkopf had done everything right, which obviously he had not. However, had he taken the warnings earlier, initiated widespread testing using foreign tests available back in late January rather than allowing CDC to mess around for weeks trying to develop their own test and blocked flights from Europe (where apparently the US strain of the virus appears to have originated) at the same time he blocked flights from China, the number of deaths might be much lower. As Trump would say, “who knows”.
Edited
I initially voted for Trump because I thought he would be pro Israel and pro USA. I was wrong on Israel. His Deal of the Century is attempting to sanction and invest in a terrorist state and combine its peoples…….a veiled attempt at best to weaken Israel and at worst to destroy it. His actions may appear pro Israel but sadly so many American Jews were duped by the red haired Fuhrer…….As far as the USA goes it is against Jewish law even to applaud whatever good……Brought down in Yoreh Daeh 151:14 (approximately from memory) and Mishna Brura Peach Chain 225:10 (ibid) The verse in the Torah which disallows praise of a non Jew is Devarim 7:2. Look it up along with the Gemara in Avoda Zara 19B-20A. Eye opening and mussar to millions of American (and Israeli) Jews who are unfamiliar with Halacha. Be wary of Grump, the Evangelicans, the DemoIslamists, and now that the USA offers little for the Jew, no normal schooling, mikva with risk of death, no being there for sick ones, no minyanim, its time to leave and ascend to Israel. Israel has a lot of problems, and those who stay in exile even under these circumstances need to do a big introspection. Jobless and Jewishless…..facing death at one wrong move, its time to wake up. ……and leave. Just prior to Corona, anti Semites stormed our stores, schuls, and chadarim to eliminate us, but how quickly we forget how blissful life was really was before Corona…….We are the problem not “the Israelis”, it is a clear Torah obligation mentioned 80 times over the mitzvah of living in Israel……..But the excuses continue …….now we face the ultimate price for not thinking clearly…..and trying to be a truthful Torah Jew…..the way to correct this is to make plans to ascend…..Corona slap in the face is just the beginning of the end of the American Jewish exile……rapidly collapsing in front of our eyes, head home to Israel……your future awaits you there
Dear Jersey,
Forget the news. Do the math. From a geographic perspective the only country worse off is Russia. Even Europe as a whole is better off.January 21st:
USA- 1st confirmed case, 3.6% unemployed
South Korea- 1st confirmed case, 4% unemployedMarch 3rd:
USA- 9 deaths, 4.4% unemployed
South Korea- 28 deaths, 3.8% unemployedMay 11th:
USA- 81,285 deaths, 14.7% unemployed
South Korea- 256 deaths, 4% unemployedWhilst South Korea dealt with the virus with testing, tracking and early introduction of social distancing measures, Trump was too concerned about spooking the stock market and touting unproven treatments and non existent vaccines.
Those deaths were avoidable.
I don’t like the heading. At all. Say what you want. Protest too. But no name calling a sitting president.
גם במדעך מלך אל תקלל
Was referred about a king who did much worse. On purpose.
The good news is I tested Negative……………………….
The bad news is Trump also claims he has tested negative.
So you’re both liars?
Try rereading the thread. And other trump and coronavirus threads I think the answer will be obvious.
The title is wrong, but not because of “Melech al tekalel”. First of all, Trump is not a king.
Second, “Melech al tekalel” is not a commandment, it’s good advice. The posuk continues that the reason not to curse the king is that no matter how careful you are, you are likely to be caught. “Ki off hashomayim yolich es hakol.” If you could be sure of not being caught then you could go right ahead and curse. Now in this country we have freedom of speech, so even if we had a king we could curse him safely. (Indeed, even in the UK and most other countries with a melech, one can nowadays curse him with impunity.) And we certainly incur no risks by cursing the President. So while I don’t agree that he deserves cursing, those who think he does should feel free. That way the rest of us will know how little value we should put on their opinions.
Dear Little,
Agreed.
Dear Milhouse,
Feel free? A lot of comments here do not care for personal accountability.And to Reb Eliezer too. From an historical perspective, President Trump is as wealthy and as powerful as just about any king mentioned in TaNaCh. Even puppet kings have the din of a melech.
“I don’t like the heading. At all. Say what you want. Protest too. But no name calling a sitting president.”
This.
Exactly.
As a know-it-all teenager, I once said something disparaging about Jimmy Carter. My Dad z”l heard me, and he said, “You may disagree with the President, but he’s the President, and you always respect the office, even if you don’t like what he says.”
n0m, it doesn’t matter how wealthy or powerful he is, he is NOT a king. He is just another public servant, just like any janitor in a government office. There is no reason to respect him, unless you happen to think he deserves it.
And even if he were a king, there is no danger in cursing him, so yes, feel free to do so.
And TKM, your father was wrong. The whole idea is unworthy of a republic.
Dear Milhouse,
I’m not sure that there can be any concept of a governing body, without the concept of respect. Your opinion is that respect is completely subjective? Like, if I decide he deserves my respect than I should give it even though he has no idea why I respect him? You seem very sure of yourself. And I have no idea what you mean.Anyways……….. It sure seems like our President does not think of himself as a public servant. Many great kings felt beholden to their realm. In your opinion, what makes a king a king? Pharaoh was called Pharaoh.
Who cares how he thinks of himself? He can think he’s Napoleon for all I care. The fact is he is not a king. We do not have kings here. We fought two wars to get rid of the kings and to keep them away.
The whole concept of a king is that he is not anybody’s servant, everyone else is his servant and owes him loyalty. In a monarchy the king is the state. “L’etat c’est moi”. That is why it is treason to plot to kill him or his heir, or to interfere with their wives. In this country the constitution specifically rules that idea out; even killing the president is not treason, because he is not the state, and no loyalty is owed to him.
But the whole question is irrelevant here, because in a country with freedom of speech one may curse even a real king without fear, so the posuk’s advice doesn’t apply.
“Being blunt or sharp, is not an indicator of hate. Lack of patience, maybe. An attempt to highlight the point, likely.”
I didn’t actually mean haeteful per se. the students of Rebbi Akiva also weren’t hateful towards each other. It was their very own teacher that made the famous statement “Love Your Fellow As Yourself”. It is unfathomable that they went against their teachers explicite command!
It is not right that now, of all the times, the posts are getting more and more heated.
And blunt or sharp comments can many times be an manifestaion of hate.
Dear Milhouse,
This is confusing. I will write as if you made these points.If I got you wrong, just assert your opinion.
1) Who could more truthfully claim “I am the state”, Charles V or Donald Trump? (Slight spoiler alert the President has made the point without saying it.)
2) What matters is if he is a legal king. Therefore a puppet king is also a king. A president with vast powers is not. I do not think that would hold up to an inquiry of our Torah sources.
3) Because the law allows it, the advice in Mishlei does not apply. WOW!!! I could think of many reasons not to do things that are lawful.reb eliezer you havent said anything that supports your claim in the title of this topic
Dear Som,
Reb Eliezer is confused why the President is denying the reality of the pandemic. He did not give specifics. (He does not have to. My hangnail is not a pandemic.) Maybe he does not accept that the President can still be putting his self interest before the country’s. Either way, it is not good leadership.I feel we’re all denying the reality of the pandemic by failing to mourn the nearly 100,000 victims on a national level.
Reb eliezer,
The beloved governor said old people die that’s life
Reb e- i rarely defend anything trump says since his words are his worst trait, but you definitely got this one wrong. I know from your posts that when it comes to trump you aren’t open to that possibility but that’s just fake news
“People are going to die by this virus. Older people, vulnerable people are going to die from this virus. That is going to happen, despite whatever you do. Because with all our progress as a society, we can’t keep everyone alive. When asked a follow-up question about how some families believe that under different protocols their loved ones would be alive, Cuomo said: “People rationalize death in different ways. I don’t think there is any logical rationale to say they would be alive today.””
But of course it’s only Trump who is stupid, arrogant, and lacks empathy about all the death.
I’m all for criticizing the President, but when the criticism and blaming is so disgustingly one sided you people lose all credibility.We should redefine this thread. Lack of empathy? Self absorbed? Lack of leadership? Out of touch? Ignoring facts? Head in the sand?Maybe a fool? Ostrich politics? Avoidable deaths? Not a king? Best president ever?
It would be a waste to have such a varied conversation without a good heading.
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