Our Stupid President Trump

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  • #1861809
    bk613
    Participant

    So when will you start a thread calling Cuomo a murderous idiot. Apart from NY the US did not do a terrible job handling Corona.
    “He should have been more sensitive towards the elderly.”
    “More sensitive?? Seriously?!? Please list a single Trump policy that directly killed as many people as Cuomo’s insane nursing home policy.

    #1861812
    som1
    Participant

    rebeliezer: your title should be THE STUPID Coumo AND FELLOW DEMOCRATS,

    cuomo forced all nursing homes to accept patients of covid 19, which is crazy considering that the elderly have a 15% death rate, AND THEN THE nursing homes ask for protective equipment HE TELLS THEM ITS NOT HIS PROBLEM

    ps moderator please let my comments through you didnt let the other ones through

    #1861874
    huju
    Participant

    To anonymous Jew: I’ve been tasting my coffee a lot. It’s as good as anything I can get anywhere else, so I am happy to remain in lockdown. And the brisket ….

    #1861865
    Milhouse
    Participant

    n0m, I don’t understand what it is that you’re having difficulty with.

    A thing is what it is and not something else. A king is a king and not a president, just as a cat is a cat and not a dog. The definition of “king” does not include “has a lot of power”. A king is the state. Louis XIV was France; there was no other definition. Elizabeth II is the UK, though in her case it’s a bit more complicated since the Glorious Revolution enshrined the principle that ultimately sovereignty rests not with the Sovereign or the Crown but with Parliament, and then the Act of Settlement separated the Crown from the person of the Sovereign. Still, it remains the case that she embodies the kingdom, all her subjects owe her loyalty and everything the kingdom does is in her name.

    Trump is not the United States. He is merely the executive whom the USA has hired for a few years. The entire executive power is vested in him personally, so he can say “I am the executive branch”, but he cannot truthfully say “I am the United States”. We are not his subjects, or anybody’s. If someone were to kill him, they’d be charged with murder, not with treason. And the whole basis of the USA is the utter rejection of kings, to the point that we fought two wars against that concept, and would fight again to kill anyone who would try to bring it back. Therefore it is un-American to assert that he is a king.

    I also don’t understand how you can not get my point about the posuk. The posuk says why you should not curse a king — because it’s dangerous. There is no other reason. Therefore since it is NOT dangerous to curse Trump, or even QE2, the posuk’s advice is irrelevant. On the other hand in a country like China or Russia, where there may not be a king but it is dangerous to curse anyone in power, the posuk’s advice does apply.

    #1861842
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    bk613, Trump not doing anything but dismissing the virus until the middle of April killed people.

    #1861886
    馃崼Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Oh, now it’s mid April? Amazing how fluid reality has become. I hate to burst your bubble but I’ve been stuck in my house since March. And travel bans were in place before that.

    #1861890
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Milhouse, very interesting. In the US, the flag represents the nation and therefore it was forbidden the burning of the flag. In Israel, the president represents the nation. In the UK, the queen represents the nation.

    #1861899
    bk613
    Participant

    As Syag pointed out, your last comment is simply untrue. The worst part is you know its a lie and you still post it anyway.
    Did he take it very seriously in January, no, but at that point no one was including the WHO (no human to human transmission). No one had any idea what was going to happen.

    #1861900
    bk613
    Participant

    When will you start a thread exclusively bashing Cuomo? You don’t even need to manipulate the truth in order to blame him for thousands of deaths. If he was a Republican you would have been attacking him for weeks.

    #1861920
    unommin
    Participant

    Trump stopped all travel from China. The media excoriated him for being a racist.
    Testing doesn’t change the therapeutics, and we had a lockdown to flatten the curve. Trump listened to the “science experts” for right or wrong.

    There is a political divide in this country that is unbridgeable. If you look at the Obama/Biden and see “not a smidgen of corruption” and only listen to CNN about Trump, there is simply no talking to any of you about the truth in anything at all.

    #1861921
    Milhouse
    Participant

    No, RE, the flag is merely a symbol, and it is PERFECTLY LEGAL to burn it. Any legislator who votes for a law purporting to ban it is violating his oath and has betrayed everything the country stands for.

    #1861925
    Milhouse
    Participant

    In January, when everyone was saying the threat was not great, Trump was already setting up a task force and taking measures to combat it, in case it turned out to be more serious than they were saying. He even announced it in the State of the Union address, which Pelosi ripped up declaring that there was nothing of value in it. So everyone stop lying about Trump.

    #1861941
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I heard it myself how Trump dismiss the threat saying, it will go away. He also agreed to fire Obama’s NSC panidemic task force.

    #1861937
    som1
    Participant

    “Trump not doing anything but dismissing the virus until the middle of April killed people.”

    this is what your NATIONAL SOCIALIST state run media had to say when trump made a China travel ban due to covid 19 in january

    cnn -Experts say travel restrictions the Trump administration put in place to stop the novel coronavirus from spreading could have unintended consequences that undermine that effort….
    “All of the evidence we have indicates that travel restrictions and quarantines directed at individual countries are unlikely to keep the virus out of our borders,”

    ps moderator please let this through

    When your post is appropriate, it goes through. Requests are meaningless.

    #1861953
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Come on everybody!
    We could discuss each Governor’s policy. We cannot discuss the President’s. Because there is none. He keeps moving on to something else. Bush had his popularity soar (like 85%) after 9/11. Trump wasted an easy chance to win reelection in a landslide. He never acts like a leader. That may be a good thing. But people get frustrated by a lack of leadership during a crisis. This is not about policy or politics. Leave Coumo out. He is leading 5 states right now. Trump is leading 0. I am not saying Coumo is better for it, put it does seem like the President does not get it. [If he does, it is a golden opportunity for him.] Please try to understand the point before making it political.

    #1861954
    Milhouse
    Participant

    RE, the crisis will go away eventually. Of course. And no, he did NOT “agreed to fire Obama鈥檚 NSC panidemic task force.” That is yet another lie. Please stop lying about him. Not because he’s the president but because he’s a human being.

    #1861966
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Milhouse,
    So a king is a ruler who cannot be legally deposed. That is your opinion. I do not see it. Definitely not compatible with TaNaCh.

    I did not look up the passuk. I recall something to the effect of your words becoming public without mention of danger. Maybe that was Koheles. Okay, I will check it up.

    Still why do you insist it is not dangerous? There is a whole thread discussing if someone was illegally in peril because of his place in Washington politics. (Or something like that. It is not my type of game.) Also, why does the danger have to come from the Government? Why can’t some radicals (namely me) act on their own, because of what they read online?

    #1861978
    Abba_S
    Participant

    While Trump may not be a King he is the chief executive during a national emergency which gives him more power then your standard president. For example, during World War II President Roosevelt imprisoned All Japanese even second and third generation, mainly living in the west coast. Let’s try not to antagonize the anti semites.

    #1862000
    bk613
    Participant

    “Please try to understand the point before making it political.”

    The point here is that there is a flagrant double standard between how the left/media treat Republicans. This extends much further than just Trump.

    #1862026
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Bk,
    This thread was not started by the left/media at large. The point of the thread was never clarified. I think it was leadership, not politics. How is there a double standard in this post?

    #1862039
    Milhouse
    Participant

    No, a king is not a ruler who cannot be legally deposed. I never said any such thing. The definition of a king is that he is the state; that he is the lord and everyone in his realm is his subject and owes him loyalty. Americans are not subjects. And we do not have kings. We will not allow kings. We will kill anyone who tries to impose a king on us. Therefore Trump is not one. It really is as simple as that.

    And cursing him is not dangerous. He won’t and can’t do anything to those who curse him, because we have freedom of speech and he respects that. And why would anyone else want to hurt those who curse him? On the contrary, it is far more dangerous to publicly bless him than to curse him; there have been many reports of violence against anyone expressing support for Trump, and none of violence against his opponents.

    #1862382
    takahmamash
    Participant

    “And TKM, your father was wrong. The whole idea is unworthy of a republic.”

    As they say in the armed forces, you salute the rank, not the man.

    #1862878
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Another interesting saying of our president. It is a good thing that we have a lot cases because it shows that we have a lot of testing. These people might die ch’v but it is a good thing. The existence of the virus cases has nothing to do with the testing.

    #1863333
    som1
    Participant

     

    MODERATOR LET IT THROUGH THIS TIME

    Talk like a mensch and it will go through. That should be obvious by now

    #1863379
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Som,
    I answered you clearly on this thread. You did not reply. If you prefer trashing him for making the point over contributing to the content of the point, this is not the thread for you. Trashing the questioner instead of answering him is a hallmark of our President.

    #1863380
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Milhouse,
    I looked, it up. Koheles 10 20. You are incorrect. The next phrase says to not to curse the wealthy. It seems to convey that it weakens society when people belittle their leaders. All the more so in democracy. I would like one source that the ancient pharaohs were the state more than the president is.

    #1863385
    som1
    Participant

    reb eliezer: hes saying that even if we had few cases, we really have a lot but are not testing, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF CASES IS GOOD BECAUSE THAT MEANS WE ARE TESTING! To argue with that is “OSTRICH POLITICS”, saying its better not to test because then there will be less cases! so your being hypocritical

    #1863439
    som1
    Participant

    n0mesorah
    1)i was responding but the moderator didnt let it through until now
    2)YOU NEVER RESPONDED TO WHAT I SAID, you just started saying how trump isnt a leader and some other unintelligible things

    #1863442
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    sam1, testing does not create cases. We can test and not have any cases. Having cases shows that we are not properky following social distancing which is not good. If we don’t test the cases are still around and don’t disappear.

    #1863457
    Milhouse
    Participant

    n0m, her uf hacken a chainik. The posuk says very clearly why one should not curse a king or a rich man — because you will get caught. No other reason. It has nothing to do with respect or society. Since when is a rich man a leader? The ONLY reason is that you will get caught and they will punish you. In our society that is impossible; Trump neither can nor would punish anyone for cursing him. Therefore there is no reason not to, except that he doesn’t deserve it.

    And the king being the state is the very DEFINITION of kingdom. There is no kingdom without the king. Again, stop hacking a chainik, it’s like you’re demanding proof that a dog is not an elephant, or that a rock is not a tree. They are very different things.

    #1863455
    Milhouse
    Participant

    RE, you are wrong and Trump is right. The rise in the number of cases is ENTIRELY the result of the increase in testing. If there is no testing there are no cases. The infected people are just as infected, but they are not reflected in the statistics because nobody knows about them. The more testing is done the more cases are discovered. These are people who ARE NOT SICK. There is nothing to be sad about that they are infected. It’s doing them no harm. But now that they’ve been tested they are included in the statistics, so OF COURSE the number is rising.

    Until about 20 years ago the number of known extrasolar planets was ZERO. Only when we started looking for them did we find any. Now the number keeps rising, not because they’re forming an increased rate but because we’re looking for them in more places and with more precise instruments.

    #1863574
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I don’t agree. A tree falling in the forest makes a noise whether you hear it or not. The cases are there and must be mitigated whether you test for it or not. Like a neder it says, 诪讜爪讗 砖驻转讱 转砖诪讜专 讜注砖讬转 讻讗砖专 谞讚专转 don’t make a neder but do like you made one. Assume you have the virus and wear a mask and distance yourself from others even if you did not have a test.

    #1863597
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    What is so complicated here? The U. S. has the highest numbers in hospitalizations, critical, and fatal cases. That is not good. Very, very, bad. Nobody thought that the global superpower could be hit so hard. The President should say that things are very bad, and offer hope and comfort. If he does that he seals reelection. Clearly, he is not able to relate.

    #1863598
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Milhouse,
    There is a tiny difference between fundamentalism and honesty. (Honesty is related to the truth.) Nowhere does it implicate that the idea is getting caught. You never mentioned any reason to think a king is what you claim it be. Your opinions are not bad. You made no attempt to source them, either.

    #1863599
    Milhouse
    Participant

    RE, there is nothing not to agree about. Testing doesn’t change people, but it creates the increase in cases. The number of cases is NOT how many people are actually infected, it’s how many people are KNOWN to be infected, and that is created only by testing. If you have not been tested then you are not one of the cases, and when you are tested and found to have it then you become one of the cases. And THAT IS THE ONLY REASON the number of cases goes up.

    And the fact that so many people have it, and yet so few people are sick, means that the danger of this virus is in fact VERY LOW. All the scary numbers we were told at the beginning, which frightened us into agreeing to this disastrous lockdown, were FALSE. If we knew then what we know now we would have resisted the government’s orders and refused to obey them, and dared them to arrest everyone.

    #1863606
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Som,
    Do you think Trump ‘gets it’ with the pandemic? We could agree hat he is the right man for the job in general. But he seems to have not grasped that there is serious work to be done. [Or, as his biography (pre-politics) indicates, he loathes problem solving.] Again, just one question. Does he understand the nature of a pandemic? If you think he does, you may be on the wrong thread. Or hanging on by one.

    #1863650
    charliehall
    Participant

    ” it鈥檚 a bit more complicated since the Glorious Revolution enshrined the principle that ultimately sovereignty rests not with the Sovereign or the Crown but with Parliament”

    That isn’t completely accurate. The taxing power was already with Parliament rather than the monarch before the “Glorious Revolution” (which was anything but glorious for Catholics). OTOH the monarch even today as in theory a right of veto of any law passed by parliament, with no override possibility. However, the last time that veto was used (withholding of royal assent) was in 1708. But even that is complicated. One of the things that contributed to the American Revolution was that colonial governors appointed by the monarch continued to veto acts of colonial legislatures. And one of the specific grievances against King George III listed in the Declaration of Independence was the failure to set up any kind of democracy at all in Quebec after it had been annexed by Great Britain in 1763.

    #1863652
    charliehall
    Participant

    It is totally legal — in fact a constitutionally protected right — to burn the US flag in any place where it is legal to burn something else.

    #1863653
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Trump stopped all travel from China.”

    That is a lie. Trump banned entry of Chinese Nationals into the US. That is indeed racist. But tens of thousands of other nationals were allowed to fly to the US from China after the fake travel ban, and were not offered testing. Worse, there was no ban on travel from Europe, particularly Italy, and no testing. The strain that is killing people here in NY is from Europe. Basically, Trump racism denies that white people are a danger.

    #1863658
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Milhouse, I am surprised at you. Is that why 100,000 died?

    #1863882
    Milhouse
    Participant

    n0m, the posuk explicitly says the reason. This is not some kind of drosho, it’s right there in the posuk. I can only conclude that you’re a troll, and it’s a waste of time dealing with you. Go away.

    RE, what are you on about now? We are not talking about deaths, we are talking about the increase in the number of confirmed cases of infection. That is caused entirely by testing. The more people are tested the more cases there will be. The cases discovered by testing healthy people are not dead, they’re not even sick, and they’re in no danger.

    Charlie, stop lying. The ban on travel from China covered ALL foreigners; only US citizens and residents were allowed in, as of course they had to be. And the fact that you STILL denounce it as “racist” just shows what a fundamentally dishonest and bad person you are, how your sin’ah distorts everything you write. The disease was rampant in China. The Chinese government was not allowing people from Wuhan to go anywhere in China, but was letting them go and infect the whole world. And when Trump put a stop to that all the Democrats called him racist and insisted that all those infected people must be allowed to come and infect us, just so as not to be “racist”. Just as they all insisted we must go to Chinatown and to the Chinese New Year parades. At least they didn’t go as far as the Italian authorities who encouraged people to hug a Chinese person. Talk about rotzchim!

    The ban didn’t extend to other countries because at the time the disease wasn’t known to be spreading there. And if he’d banned travel from Italy and Spain you’d have just accused him of even more racism.

    As for the Queen’s powers, the fact that English kings could not impose taxes did not detract from their sovereignty. The taxing power was just not regarded as one of the perquisites of sovereignty. Parliament still served the king, not the other way around. It was the Glorious Revolution that finally said no, Parliament is sovereign, and can hire and fire kings. Then when Queen Anne’s last child died Parliament conducted a modern executive search for her successor, headhunted Sophie of Hanover, and negotiated a contract with her, which was codified in the Act of Settlement. The most important provision of that contract was to separate the Crown from the Queen; Sophie would not get the Crown revenues, but would instead be paid a salary like any modern executive. The Crown would be the government, which is the Queen as advised by her ministers.

    The reason the Royal Assent is never denied to the acts Parliament passes is simply because the Assent is not controlled by the Queen, it’s controlled by her ministers, and since they also control the Commons (or they wouldn’t be her ministers) they naturally assent to everything it passes.

    #1863974
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Milhouse,
    You telling us we are lying or trolling, seems to be an admission. The passuk says it will be publicized, no more.

    #1864038
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    What does testing help? If you have the virus, what can you do about it, and if you don’t have it, you still need all the precautions to watch out not to get it. So act like you have it without testing.

    #1864073
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    When we open up without a cure and vaccine, people stop following the necessary precautions and the virus continues its day.

    #1864083
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    We are creating a false sense of security.

    #1864328
    yehudayona
    Participant

    From the White House website

    Remarks by President Trump at Ford Rawsonville Components Plant

    “The company founded by a man named Henry Ford 鈥 good bloodlines, good bloodlines, if you believe in that stuff. You got good blood. (Laughs.)”

    Apparently Trump is unaware of Ford’s anti-semitism.

    #1864455
    som1
    Participant

    yehudayona
    I was unaware of that also

    #1864800
    huju
    Participant

    To bk613: The US is not done addressing the corona virus, and so it it too soon that the US outside New York did a “not terrible” job” addressing it. And is “not terrible” really the level of quality we should aim for?

    #1864770
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Remember this one?

    We’re building a wall on the border in New Mexico and we’re building a wall in Colorado!”

    #1864828
    Joseph
    Participant

    huju: So far the United States has done much better fighting the virus than has the UK, France, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Ireland and a number of other European countries.

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