November 2, 2009 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #590723
i want to have a gun in my house for protection and chas veshalom you never know if anti semitism could get worse in america in the future .my wife is very against it. Right now our kids are very young but she is mainly concerned for when our kids are older. I told her that it would be kept secure(my father had a gun and i didnt even know until i was a teenager). What are peoples feelings about this? It seems to me very few frum yidden own guns, does anyone here own one?
also i want to know if anyone had a spouse who was reluctant to get a gun but in the end they were able to be convinced?
thanks for everyones adviceNovember 2, 2009 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #717500
This should liven things upNovember 2, 2009 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #717501
IMHO, owning a gun is a lack of Bitachon unless you live in a specifically dangerous neighborhood. There is no reason that the average american should need to own a gun to protect himself. Besides for the fact that it has the potential to cause a lot of problems with kids. Additionally, the last thing you want is that you pull the gun and the guy panics and shoots you. Also what happens if he gets hold of your gun? You armed your attacker. I don’t think it falls under proper hishtadlus to put yourself at risk for security reasons in this case.
(Just to set the record straight, I do believe that Americans have the right to own guns if they want, and am against anti-gun laws[to an extent obviously] but that is a different discussion all together.)
But that’s just my opinion, people may argue.November 2, 2009 11:19 pm at 11:19 pm #717502
I live in Mexico City and crime is great. About few years ago there was a couple that kept a gun in their house, the mother went to the supermarket shopping and left the two small kids in the house with the maid. The next thing the little boy around five years old took out the gun and shoot his two year old sister to death. What a tragedy.!! The poor boy is always going to feel terrible that he killed his sister.
His sister was not able to live a full life. The parents well the parents you know how they must feel. And the community had to help them so they should not go to jail.I have a gun were I work I am terrified to even look at it. I do not get close to it and in case emergency I think I will never use it. Let Hashem protect me I work in a jewelery store.November 2, 2009 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #717503
“crime is great” !??November 2, 2009 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #717504
Part of owning a gun, or any tool, is to learn how to use it safely, and keep those who don’t know how to use it safely from using it.November 2, 2009 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #717505
i have a lack of bitachon because i want to own a gun?
you have to do your hishtadlus but you also have to protect yourself. my entire family that was wiped out by hitler yemach shemo probally would not have survived had they owned guns but they would have had a lot better chance.
i happen not to live in a dangerous neighborhood but less than a mile away is a very dangerous neighborhood. i dont think it is unresponable to have adequate protection.
but we are getting off topic my main question is if anyone here owned a gun and if so if originally their spouse was opposed to itNovember 2, 2009 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #717506November 2, 2009 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #717507
but we are getting off topic my main question is if anyone here owned a gun and if so if originally their spouse was opposed to it
It’s fine if you want to try to keep this exactly on topic as you perceive it. But since this is a forum you need to accept that the posters will write what they feel a need to express.November 3, 2009 12:20 am at 12:20 am #717508
I don’t mean to imply (or say) that YOU have a lack of Bitachon by wanting to own a gun. I do feel, however, that owning a gun in a safe neighborhood (yours might not be) is displaying a lacking (however small it may be) in Bitachon in Hashem. Owning a gun is very dangerous and has a lot of risks and personally I feel that if a person feels that they need that to be protected by owning a gun is displaying a lack of bitachon in Hashem. Only the big gun lobbyists believe that it’s irresponsible for ANY American not to own a gun.
But as I said – that’s just MY opinion.November 3, 2009 12:26 am at 12:26 am #717509
and it is the dictators who feel it is irresponsible for ANYONE to own a gunNovember 3, 2009 12:27 am at 12:27 am #717510
i know moderator i just am eager for someone to answer my original question
my main question is if anyone here owned a gun and if so if originally their spouse was opposed to itNovember 3, 2009 12:33 am at 12:33 am #717511
and it is the dictators who feel it is irresponsible for ANYONE to own a gun
Agreed – I’m a big believer that everyone has a RIGHT to own a gun. I don’t believe everybody SHOULD own a gun or feel a need to do so.
i just am eager for someone to answer my original question
my main question is if anyone here owned a gun and if so if originally their spouse was opposed to it
That wasn’t your MAIN question – you stuck that in as an also and it isn’t even in the title of this thread as you said
also i want to know if anyone had a spouse who was reluctant to get a gun but in the end they were able to be convinced?November 3, 2009 12:34 am at 12:34 am #717512
my son in law owns a gun my daughter is definitly opposed to the idea, well he hides very well so his kids do not see it, and if he hides it so good what good is it in case of an emergency it has to be available . So if you want a gun and you need to put it in a safe place let me ask you . What good is it in case of an emergency?November 3, 2009 12:39 am at 12:39 am #717513
I think you could reassure your spouse a bit by taking a gun-owner’s safety course. They are given by, surprise, the NRA and other groups, but they will show you how you can childproof and criminal-proof your gun. It is easy for a criminal to use your gun against you, and so increases the danger to your family, whereas your intent is to reduce it.
Take the course together, and let her see it is possible to be a responsible gun owner, and help her to assuage her fears.
Do you know what her fears are?November 3, 2009 12:47 am at 12:47 am #717514
it is possible to secure the gun so that it can be used quickly. You don’t want it to be able to be used instantly, for many reasons. The kids will inevitably find it some day. You don’t want a burglar to find it, then sell it to someone who will use a gun registered in your name in another crime.November 3, 2009 1:07 am at 1:07 am #717515truthsharerMember
You are incorrect. IIRC, the gemarah talks about a punishment for someone walking without his sword, or something like that.
Bitachon does not mean we can all take a happy pill and hope that nothing bad happens.November 3, 2009 1:13 am at 1:13 am #717516
thanks ronsr i checked it out and your right there are some local gun safety courses nearby. I am going to suggest it to her
her fears are what most people fear- and they are legitimate i dont deny it. I think most people fear a gun being used on someoone in the house chos veshalom instead of on a potential intruder.November 3, 2009 1:53 am at 1:53 am #717517
You are incorrect. IIRC, the gemarah talks about a punishment for someone walking without his sword, or something like that.
I don’t know what Gemorah you are referring to, but it doesn’t surprise me. Everything has it’s place and time. The Gemorah was probably talking about a dangerous time or neighborhood. It’s very possible the gemorah was referring to anywhere because of the rabid antisemitism there was then. I haven’t heard any Poskim say that one must carry a gun so to not go against the Gemorah.
Bitachon does not mean we can all take a happy pill and hope that nothing bad happens.
The balance between Bitachon and Hishtadlus is very fine. I never once said (and you know it) that you should “take a happy pill”. There is a far distance between owning a gun and “hope(ing) that nothing bad happens”. Hishtadlus is doing the things that one needs to do and not just saying I have Bitachon. In my opinion, one doesn’t NEED to buy a gun to protect himself in a “safe” neighborhood. yswo’s neighborhood my not be considered “safe”, I have no idea.November 3, 2009 2:00 am at 2:00 am #717518mybatMember
Yswo, I remember that story that mazca said about the little girl, it was terrible.
I also know someone else whose father had a gun for intruders when he was little. One night the little boy got out of his bed with his cousins to play in middle of the night. The father heard noise and went downstairs with the gun looking for the intruders, when the little kids heard the father coming down they hid very well because they were scared he would shoot them by mistake, B”H the father did not see them and went back to sleep. Imagine how the father would have felt for the rest of his life if he wouldve done something to his son and nephews….November 3, 2009 2:10 am at 2:10 am #717519Just-a-guyMember
yswo- I don’t know where you live, but if you do end up buying a gun (which I do not recommend, but I sense your mind is made up), please make sure that you educate yourself about the applicable ownership/possession/carry laws for your jurisdiction. They can be both very complicated and very harsh if violated, particularly in New York and New Jersey. While I don’t want anyone to be accidentally shot with your gun, I also don’t want you to wind up in jail because of a paperwork problem that can be avoided.November 3, 2009 2:34 am at 2:34 am #717520tamazaballMember
my husbands father used to own a gun,hes wife was against it,and burglers stole it anyway it was supposedly well hidden.November 3, 2009 2:37 am at 2:37 am #717521coalMember
i think its dangerous to own it more than to notNovember 3, 2009 3:53 am at 3:53 am #717522BEST IMAParticipant
yswo: In 25 years of marriage the most important thing i learned is that if my spouse is strongly oppossed to something not to do it. Especially in a case like this where youre talking about something so dangerous. My mother needed a gun in her line of work and she kept it very well hidden. But it was so well hidden if she had to use it in the house for protection she never would have gotten to it in time. And you have to think of this also, if it came L’maaseh would you really be able to pick it up and use it on someone? Most people talk about it alot but would never be able to use it. Whatever you decide Hatzloch and Hashem should keep you safe gun or no gun.November 3, 2009 4:08 am at 4:08 am #717523pookieMember
now in new york at least its very hard to get a license for a gun, you have to have a reason (ex. jewler) and a good record.Someone i know was in a furniture store about fifteen years ago and he happened to meet another person he knew, suddenly 3 men came in with guns and informed everyone in the store that it was a hold up the person i know had a gun, he took it out shot 2 of them and the third the cops got down the block.So i guess there are ups and downs to having a gun.November 3, 2009 4:09 am at 4:09 am #717524
I just have my trusty baseball bat, It’s safe & at least i’ll get to practice
on my swing. I would only purchase one if I were 1000% sure it was in an extremely
safe place, like in a safe that only I had access to. as mazca pointed out,
unfortunately many people who purchased them just for protection, ended up losing
a child for lack responsibility & saftey precautions.
Mind you these weren’t all airheads who didnt take steps to ensure that their family was not in harms way, so even when you’re careful, sometimes that is just not enough.
When one purchases a gun to store at home, he should really take into consideration that he might be the one is responsible for a catastrophe.November 3, 2009 4:10 am at 4:10 am #717525
you really need a locked case AND a trigger lock (or chamber lock, or cable lock: CADOJ approved) for the gun itself. Hiding isn’t enough.
If you learned to use a gun from TV detective shows, forget it, it’s not as simple as all that.
You also need to get the right gun, and learn how to shoot effectively. Take lessons, go to the range
If you live in a large building, get the right weapons. You want to be sure that the round you fire at the intruder doesn’t kill your neighbor or a family member in another room. It’s too easy to do if you live in a dense area.
If you really want to make your family safer, learn what to do in the event of misfires, jams,
You also need to teach your kids the rules of kid/gun safety, namely:
If you see a gun: Stop; Don’t Touch; Leave the area; Tell an adult.
Stop – to take time to remember the rest of the instructions
Don’t touch – A firearm that is not touched or acted upon by an outside force is highly unlikely to fire, or endanger a person.
Leave the area – By leaving the area the child removes himself/herself from temptation, as well as from the danger that another person might pick up the gun and negligently cause it to fire.
Tell an adult – An adult, if not personally trained in handling firearms, should know enough to seek professional assistance
These rules are from the NRA’s Eddie Eagle program. Though I am not in favor of much of what the NRA does, they have hit the nail on the head with these rules for children.
They don’t need to know you have a gun in the house, but some of your neighbors or relatives may have one, and they may not be as diligently careful as you are going to be with your gun. You’ve heard the horror stories, too.
The gun is a very powerful tool for putting holes in people. If you had a chainsaw around the house, you’d learn to use it correctly and effectively, secure it away from the kids when not in use, and make sure they knew not to touch it if you ever had a lapse in care.
I once had a gun for work, and kept it locked up very effectively. I could have the gun and ammunition quickly.
Sober, well-trained citizens having guns doesn’t scare me, but I do cringe when I see the disregard and disrespect that many people have for this powerful and deadly tool.
As an aside, I used to own a real estate brokerage, and once, at an open house, I found a loaded 22mm rifle in a drawer. It looked as if it had been there for years, and someone had just forgotten about it. I pulled the firing pin out, and asked the listing broker to call the police to dispose of this disregarded deadly tool.November 3, 2009 4:23 am at 4:23 am #717526starwolfMember
Owning a gun is a responsibility. Like all responsibilities, it entails work, and time.
First of all, a gun is little use without training. Training in how to use the gun takes time. Will you devote the amount of time necessary? Remember that you want to know how to use this gun instinctively. I am assuming that you mean a handgun–it takes a lot of practice to hit what you aim at even on a well-lit range. At night, in the dark, when you can’t really see, and you have just woken up…..
You absolutely must put a great deal of thought into how the gun will be stored. The last thing that you need is one of the children getting at the gun. How will you store it? Will you have quick and easy access? What means will you use to stop your children from accessing?
You also must give some thought to where you live. What are the laws? What kind of permit do you need?
Do you live in a house? An apartment? Keep in mind that if you miss, the round that you shoot may very well go through your wall, and endanger whoever is on the other side–that could be your children. The type of weapon that you choose is very important, and should be chosen with a great deal of care.
I am not against owning guns (I own several). However this is not something to be done lightly. You should not just buy one, have a few hours of lessons, and then put it in the safe. It is not like riding a bicycle–it takes constant practice.November 3, 2009 4:40 am at 4:40 am #717527JotharMember
Using a gun has serious consequences. Studies have found that much of the time, the gun owner is too afraid to use it, resulting in the gun being used against him by the assailant. you’re better off with a Taser X3. Very few accidental deaths, and you’re not afraid of using it in self defense.November 3, 2009 5:43 am at 5:43 am #717528
Yes I just remembered when I used to live in Brooklyn the italian people we bought the house from used to own few guns and the story was that somebody came in and stole them.November 3, 2009 7:20 am at 7:20 am #717529
Starwolf and I did not collaborate on our answers, honest!November 3, 2009 7:24 am at 7:24 am #717530
a large number of illegal guns in the hands of criminals and other no-goodniks are the result of thefts of legal guns.November 3, 2009 8:26 am at 8:26 am #717531haifagirlParticipant
A man I know in my previous city wanted a gun and his wife was against it. He finally told her he had one after it had been in the house for 3 years. I don’t recommend that method.
I will echo a lot of other people and say you should take your wife for a gun safety course and get her used to it.
I don’t currently own a gun as I don’t feel I need one. But there was a time I did. I made sure I knew how to use it.
And finally, I would recommend that people see the video “Innocents Betrayed” which was produced by Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. It’s about various governments that enacted gun control laws and what happened after.November 3, 2009 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #717532PosterMember
I know someone that once heard noise downstairs in middle of the night, he got so scared, he didnt know what to take to protect himself So he took a wire hanger and hoped for the best, he crept downstair pointing the edge outward hoping to surprise his attacker. He crept downstairs with his ammunition and sure enough it was his WIFE!November 3, 2009 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #717533cantoresqMember
If one plans to own a gun to protect himself and his family, one better be prepared to use it, and use it effectively, i.e. kill or seriously wound an attacker. Personally I don’t think I have it in me to kill someone unless they are about to kill me or a member of my “inner circle,” a term I decline to define as it might be situational. Even then I’m not sure I could actually kill someone. One really can’t answer that question unless placed in a situation requiring its resolution. Owning a gun, seems to make the occurance of such a situation more likely. Thus I choose not to own one.November 3, 2009 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #717534truthsharerMember
If you’re getting a gun for home safety reasons, then a handgun is not the way to go. A shotgun is much better. A handgun is more for sport or for target practice, you have to be a pretty good aim in order to be effective with a handgun.November 3, 2009 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #717535BEST IMAParticipant
Poster thats just the reason i wouldnt own one! Using a gun is a mistake you cant take back.November 3, 2009 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #717536smalltowngirlMember
My husband owns 2 guns – they both have trigger locks in place, in a locked box, and are unloaded.
My fear of guns has diminished slightly as I have learned to use it properly. I’m not such a bad shot!
My teenage boys have gone to the shooting range for target shooting with their father and it has become a nice learning and bonding time.
The guns are NOT stored in our home –November 3, 2009 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #717537
smalltowngirl: “The guns are NOT stored in our home.”
So what’s the point? Your husband has them for recreational puposes.
The guns cannot protect him and your family as it is not stored at home.
It also does not entail the aforementioned worries of a family member getting
harmed by finding it, due to poor safety precautions.November 3, 2009 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #717538smalltowngirlMember
The thread began with questioning the desire to have a gun in the home – as in so many threads the topic tends to shift, and one may question the very ownership of a firearm. I simply presented my own circumstance –
Since you need clarification – my opinion is the ownership of a gun is my Constitutional right, and in my home I choose to not house said firearm as I do not wish to become yet another statistic, again, my right. If one is worried about having a gun in the home it would be wise to refrain.November 3, 2009 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #717539
Maybe you should get a dog, instead. Dogs make you feel safer in your home, for some reason. Burglars don’t like homes with dogs.
At least the kids could play with the dog; you wouldn’t want them to play with the gun.
I had a dog who taught me many important life lessons, and changed the course of my whole life. She taught and rewarded my kindness, generosity, enthusiasm, loyalty and affection, until they became life habits.November 5, 2009 6:31 am at 6:31 am #717540
plus, she was lots of fun, and would bark a lot when strangers came near the house.November 8, 2009 1:09 am at 1:09 am #717541
smalltowngirl: Thanks for clearing that up. I agree with you,
keeping a gun at home, is usually more dangerous, than not having one
with the chance that one might have to use it in self defense.
I only say that because even seemingly normal people tend to be very negligent.
I might just start a thread on this topic, to maybe get some people to wake up.November 9, 2009 4:40 am at 4:40 am #717542chesednameParticipant
To answer the first question, you can’t convince your wife of anything, (you should know that if you’re married 🙂
you can tell her why you want it and if she agrees fine, if not give it up.
If she lets you get one, you need an electric safe, so you have easy access, no lock on trigger, that would defeat the purpose, the gun should be loaded but no round in the chamber, and you must practice every so often!!
if you live in NYC you will go to jail if you don’t follow the rules 100%.
Don’t even think of getting one unless you’re ready to shoot and kill someone, otherwise the bad guy will use it on you, don’t give the wife the combo unless she takes some lessons.
This advice comes from experience I own a few of them (started after 9-11)
ps those that talk of bitachon, you’re all nuts in Germany the ones that died were armed with bitachon, but that doesn’t mean everyone should run and get a gun.November 9, 2009 5:52 am at 5:52 am #717543
I still like the combination of a dog and a baseball bat. Baseball bats are great for close-up fighting. It’s hard to injure someone in another room. Require little training besides Little League, and there are no licensing requirements anywhere I know of, even NYC.November 10, 2009 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #717544aaryd621Participant
it’s assur for a woman to own a gunNovember 11, 2009 4:03 am at 4:03 am #717547
Where does it say it is assur for a woman to own a gun? ThanksNovember 11, 2009 5:24 am at 5:24 am #717548charliehallParticipant
I don’t own a gun and don’t particularly want to. Once in my life a friend who is a prosecutor took me to a shooting range and I discovered how hard it was to hit a stationary target with a handgun; kal v’chomer a target like an intruder who does not want to be hit. Furthermore an awful lot of illegal guns started out as legal guns and were stolen, as rosnr points out; it is critical that legal guns (the only kind us Jews should ever own) be stored in a very secure locked case. Another problem is that your gun might be used against you; the father of a dear friend was killed by his own handgun. The chance that a gun will be of any use to me in this relatively safe city of New York are very small.November 11, 2009 5:32 am at 5:32 am #717549haifagirlParticipant
I heard it is not assur for a woman to own a gun, but it is assur for her to wear it, as in a holster.November 11, 2009 5:38 am at 5:38 am #717550
There are special guns made for women these days.
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