June 6, 2017 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1290904Rabbi of CrawleyParticipant
People seem to get very shocked when they see or hear that I walk a dog ..or when any frum person walks or owns a dog
Why is it so frowned upon in frum communities?June 6, 2017 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1290931
A dog is a low animal. Would you have a pet pig?June 6, 2017 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1290953
🐶 Rabbi of Crawley: Yay dog power! 🐕 My rabbi is so amazing B”H! He let my dog eat in the sukkah, so wonderful thank G-d ☺😊🐩🐶🐕June 6, 2017 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #1290962
Many dogs help humans be better humans and fulfill mitzvot. My dog is a therapy dog and I’m B”H so blessed to have him in my life like this.
Some people who degrade frum Jews who have a dog sadly may have never experienced the love and merit that dogs add to a person’s and family’s life.June 6, 2017 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #1290961
A dog is a kelev, from kol lev, literally all heart. 💖
💖 is highJune 7, 2017 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1290987WolfishMusingsParticipant
A dog is a low animal. Would you have a pet pig?
We canines thank you.
In all seriousness, however, you can’t really compare a dog and a pig. There are rabbinic decrees against raising pigs. There are no such decrees against owning dogs.
The Wolf (who, as a youth owned two dogs and, were it not for family members with allergies, would probably have one today)June 7, 2017 12:06 am at 12:06 am #1290989
If people can have houseplants, which are lower than any kind of animal, why not have a dog?June 7, 2017 6:48 am at 6:48 am #1291063
רבי אליעזר הגדול אומר המגדל כלבים כמגדל חזירים [בבא קמא דף פג עמוד א’]June 7, 2017 7:14 am at 7:14 am #1291057
RY – From plants we see niflaos haBoreh, all of the amazing and different kinds of living things that give us people life. We can learn a lot from that. From animals, there are other things to learn. I believe it is said that one can learn tznius from a cat (feel free to tell me I’m wrong, just remembering teachings for many years ago). From a dog I recall that we learn chutzpah, as a dog can bite the hand of the one who feeds it.
I also grew up having a dog and loved having one. Nothing like unadulterated love that a dog can give its owner. But dogs cost a fair amount of money and in most frum households there is not so much spare money available to be able to spend it on a dog, who has other issues, like tumah (maybe you have to wash your hands after touching him) and muktzeh, and we have enough human beings to support with our money that having a dog is not really in the budget. From these considerations, there is a complete lack of exposure to these creatures, so the children grow up fearing them.June 7, 2017 7:49 am at 7:49 am #1291062CTLAWYERParticipant
Here it goes again………………….
Living OOT in a house with large fenced in grounds, we have 4 dogs at the current time.
We don’t have issues of walking them on a leash on Shabbos or having to pick up after them, as we open a rear door and they have a fenced 1/2 acre to romp and play undisturbed.
Years ago, our LOR preached against having dogs because one might buy and have treif to feed them. We cook for them and use no commercial pet food.
They bring great joy and comfort to our family, especially when Mrs. CTL was so ill last year.
In more than 6 decades of living, I have always had at least one dog and imagine I always shall have them.June 7, 2017 7:49 am at 7:49 am #1291066
If someone does not have a dog to whom will he throw the tereif meat? Not to mention having to know whether or not something is chametz (although when someone told Rav Soloveichik that his dog ate something RS said “Whom do you believe, your dog or me?” and Rav Moshe replied to a similar statement with “Crazy dog”), I personally think that some frum people frown on it because the Nazis ym”s used dogs against the Jews. Chabad also has a problem with non-kosher animals in general that even extends to pictures but Rav Chaim David HaLevi proved that it is incorrect from the flags of the shevatim and the lions on top of aronot kodesh.June 7, 2017 7:49 am at 7:49 am #1291068
Plants exhibit bad behavior too. Look at poison ivy and banyan.June 7, 2017 7:49 am at 7:49 am #1291069
Chazal say that raising dogs is like raising pigs!June 7, 2017 7:49 am at 7:49 am #1291071CTLAWYERParticipant
It shouldn’t always be about the money.
I believe (as a long time dog owner) that dogs don’t belong in apartment buildings where they have limited time/opportunity to be outdoors and possibly to run free.
That said the vast majority of frum families live in apartments in concrete laden cities, not single family homes with fenced yards and space.
Caring for a dog teaches children responsibility.
My elderly, infirm MIL now lives with us. our smaller dogs give her a great deal of comfort and companionship and a sense of belonging.
I’d rather not go on vacations than give up having dogs. It is a matter of priorities.June 7, 2017 7:59 am at 7:59 am #1291070
where did my other post disappear to?June 7, 2017 8:29 am at 8:29 am #1291084
Plenty of people have pet pigs, but hoofed animals really don’t make good pets.June 7, 2017 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1291351
Chaver, they are talking about vicious dogs. Even they are allowed in a place where they are needed for guard duty. This should be obvious. if the Torah tells us to throw the tereifot to the dogs it obviously presumes that we have dogs.June 7, 2017 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1291458golferParticipant
AviK, if the Torah tells us to throw the tereifot to the dogs it obviously presumes that we live in proximity to dogs, not that we have pet dogs in our homes.
People kept dogs to help them hunt, manage their herds, guard their homes, long ago. I don’t know if these dogs were necessarily kept in Jewish homes. My neighbor’s dog used to appreciate a good leftover meat bone from our kosher kitchen.
And lightb, if we do by chance meet IRL, you can visit with your dog anytime.June 7, 2017 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1291453bmyerParticipant
There is a problem when people think dogs can replace people and when people think that dogs are more important than people…June 7, 2017 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #1291569
CT Lawyer, I’m sorry to say, but I think you may not realize what a different stratosphere you live in when it comes to money compared to many people who are here in the Coffee Room. Money is very often the defining point and a dog definitely does not need to be the priority of any frum Jewish family.
There are other animals that can teach children responsibility, including things like fish or birds. I am aware of the benefits that dogs do provide, especially to people like your MIL and other people as a form of animal therapy, but given the vast majority of chareidim who live in apartments, as you yourself said, there is little space for them in such quarters under normal circumstances, which is what we would be referring to.June 7, 2017 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1291576lowerourtuition11210Participant
As I once heard from Rav Hillel David: to walk a dog on shabbos one must be a talmud chacham; yet you don’t see a talmud chacham owning a dog.June 7, 2017 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #1291720
like tumah (maybe you have to wash your hands after touching him)
Live animals do not convey tumah. (You do need
to wash your hand after handling a pet, though.)
where did my other post disappear to?
There’s always the possibility that it was rejected by the mods.June 7, 2017 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #1291721
The Gemara says that one must not keep a vicious dog in one’s house.
There’s an inference to be made there.June 7, 2017 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #1291722
A dog is a low animal. Would you have a pet pig?
What makes an animal low or high, and what are
some high animals that make suitable pets, Joseph?June 7, 2017 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #1291723
To walk a dog on Shabbos one must be a talmid chacham; yet you don’t see a talmid chacham owning a dog.
Well, they are traditionally poor. : )June 7, 2017 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1291761
Rav David shlita didn’t mean they don’t have dogs because they’re poor.June 8, 2017 12:25 am at 12:25 am #1291780
There was a smiley there… Nu, what about high animals?June 8, 2017 12:45 am at 12:45 am #1291791
Smiley, shmiley. I wanted to stress Rav David shlita’s point.
😀 (This is a real smiley.)June 8, 2017 12:48 am at 12:48 am #1291794
Randomx, why does one need to wash one’s hands if the animal is clean? please cite sources. I am also interested in knowing what you infer. Do you mean that a kid who engages in vandalism should be thrown out?June 8, 2017 1:10 am at 1:10 am #1291797
Dogs are not always clean. They are not picky about what they roll around in or eat.June 8, 2017 8:45 am at 8:45 am #1291815
Golfer, thanks!!! ☺☺🐶👍👍!!
Joseph, a smiley! So nice 😄!!
RebYidd23, my dog is extremely particular about what he eats and where he chooses to roll. He only eats the soft fresh grass, often found hiding at the edges of fencing. It’s taller and thinner, and frankly for all that I don’t know – it may be weeds. Dry chicken bones and random crackers are special delicacies that sometimes walks bestow upon him.
For the record, don’t children also get messy, playing in the mud, puking on themselves and their parents, and finding gnarly treasures outside too?June 8, 2017 8:57 am at 8:57 am #1291853
An individual dog has his or her own preferences, but as a species, dogs are not picky. They have no reason to be. And yes, children also get messy and eat bugs. But parents don’t pet their children the way people pet their dogs.June 8, 2017 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1292256
LB, be careful about chicken bones. I was told (many, many years ago) that they tend to splinter and can cause the dog to choke. Ask your vet if they’re something that is okay to give your dog.June 9, 2017 7:50 am at 7:50 am #1292363
RY, people don’t hug and kiss their dogs as they do their kids.June 9, 2017 7:50 am at 7:50 am #1292362
Avi – You need to wash your hands for hygiene, and the
inference is that you can have a non-vicious dog.June 9, 2017 10:07 am at 10:07 am #1292398
Hugging and kissing uses arms and mouths, not hands.June 9, 2017 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #1292581
Thanks Nechomah! 🐶 Omgosh yea I know chicken bones are dangerous and can splinter. I don’t know why people just toss them outside after they eat chicken! So weird. It’s not just where I live now. Over my lifetime, in different areas, of ranging socio-economic statuses, once in a while I’ve come across a chicken bone during a walk – no wait, that’s wrong. I mean – my dog comes across a chicken bone hidden in some grassy dirt, using his FBI skills, and before we know it, I’m there prying his mouth open and grab whatever remnants are left. The look on his face when he chomps chomps chomps is the cutest thing though – like a little criminal sneaking snacks.
And sometimes on the beach he’ll find crackers or whatever, which is actually better than the rest of the stuff that’s sometimes out there.
Thank you, I’m glad you said something to clear it all up. 😊June 11, 2017 12:01 am at 12:01 am #1292635chabadgalParticipant
avi k- yes people actually do hug and kiss their dogsJune 11, 2017 12:01 am at 12:01 am #1292643zahavasdadParticipant
I do not have a dog, nor do I want one
But its more of a cultural thing. Most kids have a friend who has a dog and they want one too, however most frum families this is not the case as most dont have dogs and people dont grow up with one, so nobody has a dog
Most dogs arent vicious. People are thinking Rotwilers, Pitbulls, Doberman Pinchers or German Shepards and they might be scary, but do you really think a chihuhua is that dangerous or scary?June 11, 2017 12:43 am at 12:43 am #1292668
Chabadgal, some people may hug and kiss their dogs, but those mean very different things to a dog. Dogs don’t have arms, so they can’t hug, and when you hug them you are either wrapping your arms around their forelegs or standing them up with their legs over your shoulders, which they tolerate but probably don’t understand. And dogs that are kissed to catch on to its meaning, but they don’t instinctively see it as an expression of affection.June 11, 2017 2:00 am at 2:00 am #1292681yehudayonaParticipant
To go off on a slight tangent, every couple of years the CDC issues a warning against kissing chickens. Apparently people who have pet chickens get salmonella from kissing them.July 16, 2017 3:27 am at 3:27 am #1318076my own kind of jewParticipant
Assuming the place that I live’s government allowed it, why wouldn’t I? Pigs are very intelligent, can be quite affectionate, and are clean animals that have made people very good pets and companions.July 16, 2017 7:46 am at 7:46 am #1318079
Pigs have hooves.July 16, 2017 8:35 am at 8:35 am #1318092
Pigs are hypocrites. They have cloven hooves but do not chew the cud. They are kosher outside but not inside. In any case, there is only a prohibition against owning non-kosher animals whose meat is eaten. It is part of the gezeira against making business out of non-kosher meat(as opposed to selling meat that was later found to be tereif).July 16, 2017 9:25 am at 9:25 am #1318081ForshayerParticipant
I Daven at Ohr Chaim in Monsey under the leadership of Rabbi Lankry. On Jan 1st of this year he showed up in my driveway and asked if I can do him a huge favor. Not knowing what it was, I said sure. He then proceeded to unload the 3 German Shepard puppies that were going to be my guests until the end of April. His plan was to bring them up to his new Yeshiva up in Liberty NY. It took a bit more than planned. These dogs became the talk of the town. My 19 year old gained a lot of knowledge and respect for creatures other than humans which was until this time a foreign subject. I got my life long dream of having a dog. And most importantly I found out that most Jews are unjustifiably terrified of dogs. My girls would not hurt anyone! House dogs are not by nature mean. They are a product of their training. The best memory of these 5 months, as they are now up in Liberty, was watching an 18 year old Chasidishe boy make friends with them. In not more than 20 minutes he was hugging her while carrying her back to my backyard pool house which is where they lived. My son and grandchildren miss these girls on a daily basis. My wife and daughter are much happier now that they are gone.July 16, 2017 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #1318289GadolhadorahParticipant
The question of pet ownership has been debated for decades in frum journals, forums etc. and the majority opinion is that there is no issur under Halacha but simply a question of common sense and priorities. Its a stupid analogy to say that since no one can point to any gadol hador walking a dog or feeding his goldfish, therefore its per se assur. If one can afford a pet, has the space to give it a good lifestyle and it doesn’t limit one’s observance of other mitzvos, no reason why not and to some it may actual help them with stress relief and concentration for learning.July 16, 2017 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #1318310DovidBTParticipant
“Plenty of people have pet pigs, but hoofed animals really don’t make good pets.”
A lot of horse owners would disagree with that.July 16, 2017 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #1318313
Forshayer: You have a smart wife and daughter.July 16, 2017 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1318347
Outdoor pets are different from indoor pets.July 16, 2017 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #1318369ForshayerParticipant
My dogs lived the entire 4 months outside in the pool area. They never came inside because my wife would have moved out. Shabbos was when they were at their best behavior because everyone came to visit with Marrach Bones from the Shul Kiddush.
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