November 8, 2010 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #592952HelpfulMember
Is a parent halachicly responsible to pay for the damage caused by his minor child? I recall learning he is technically not responsible, but it is a bad midda to neglect to pay for such damage.
On a related note, is a husband halachicly responsible for damage caused by his wife?November 8, 2010 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #708064MoqMember
Both are patur. “Pigiyasam Rah”. A women would have to pay personally if she had assets that did not belong to her husband. A minor, however, is always patur and his parents are patur as well.
I do not know of a source that it is a bad middah.November 8, 2010 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #708065HelpfulMember
Generally everything that a wife comes into possesion of (including money and income) automatically belongs to her husband. So if she owns no pre-marital assets, is anyone legally responsible to pay for her damages?November 8, 2010 11:01 pm at 11:01 pm #708066apushatayidParticipant
I asked the following shayla to my rav. My son got into a fight with a classmate. The classmate took my sons glasses and threw them across the room, in retaliation my son took something of the classmates and threw it on the floor and it shattered. That night we received a phone call from the classmates parents demanding payment. We asked our Rav. He replied, halachicly speaking you do not have to pay anything as your son is a kattan. L’maan Hashalom, I advise you to buy them a new item. I didnt ask for any sources, and perhaps this is not the middos issue helpful meant, but my Rav did bring up the shalom angle.November 8, 2010 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #708067
In Hawaii you have to pay.November 8, 2010 11:19 pm at 11:19 pm #708068YW Moderator-80Member
were talking about the U.S.November 8, 2010 11:19 pm at 11:19 pm #708069I can only tryMember
Bava Kama, 8th perek, 4th mishna:
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“A deaf-mute, an imbicle, or a minor are bad to be involved with; one who damages them is responsible for the damage, but if they should damage another, they are not responsible to pay for the damage.
A slave or a woman are also bad to be involved with; one who damages them is responsible, but if they should damage another, they are not responsible to pay for the damage. But, they (the slave or woman) may have to pay after time; if the woman gets divorced or the slave is freed, they are then obligated to pay”
The Rav Mebartenura explains that a married woman and an eved actually have an obligation to pay for the damage, but are unable to at the present moment. Once they are able to – i.e. the woman gets divorced – they must pay up.November 9, 2010 12:23 am at 12:23 am #708070
A minor child does not have to pay for their damages. A married woman is obligated to pay for damages but if she doesn’t have any assets, it is not collectable. The father or husband has no obligaion to pay for damages.November 9, 2010 12:49 am at 12:49 am #708071oomisParticipant
Hawaii IS in the USA.
I am very sensitive about this issue as a minor (age 17 and a half) conned my parents out of $200 a few decades ago, with a sob story about his father being hospitalized and he needed the money to buy tools to be an apprentice repairman. He was a Yeshivah acquaintance of my brother’s, so my parents never questioned his story, until the repayment (that was to be made at the end of two weeks when he was to get paid that amount), stretched into two months where we could not find him or have him return calls. My parents spoke to his parents and they flatly refused to be achrayim on their son’s gneivah, though they were well aware he had scammed other frum couples in a similar manner before for a couple of years.
I have to say, if one of my children in their minor years chalilah caused financial injury to someone, I would be mortified not to make good on it, as clearly something did not filter through regarding honesty, in my kid’s upbringing. I would make that child pay ME back in spades, but I would see to it that the injured party was compensated properly, immediately.
PS, almost a year had passed and it was erev yom kippur. The boy’s parents called my father to ask his mechilah and paid back the money that their son stole from him.November 9, 2010 1:04 am at 1:04 am #708072lesschumrasParticipant
Hawaii is the USNovember 9, 2010 1:42 am at 1:42 am #708073
A minor, under halacha, is someone under Bar/Bas Mitzvah. So anyone 13 or older is an adult. Therefore that person IS responsible. (Although his parents are not.)November 9, 2010 3:15 am at 3:15 am #708074
Now comes the question that is always asked, dinei malchuscha, but since we do not live in OUR OWN STATE and we do live in a country with its own laws, how does that play out? A parent IS obligated to pay for the minor children and a husband is obligated to pay for a wife!November 9, 2010 5:22 am at 5:22 am #708075
Wrong aries2756. Dina Dmalchusa does not override Torah law, when halacha specifies how it is done.November 9, 2010 7:55 am at 7:55 am #708076
aries2756: The laws vary by state. In NY and NH parents are not financially responsible for the actions of their minor children. Most states have limits to the amount that can be collected from parents but there are a few states that have no limits.November 9, 2010 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #708078Feif UnParticipant
myfriend, dina d’malchusa won’t patur something the Torah says is assur, but it can make something assur.November 9, 2010 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #708080
Bezalel, that’s not true. If a minor child let’s say breaks a neigbhor’s window playing baseball, the parent is responsible to replace that window.November 9, 2010 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #708081
Feif un, we are not talking asur here. We are talking obligation. It is not assur to pay a minor’s obligation.November 9, 2010 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #708082
In NJ the parent can be liable if the parent failed to do reasonable supervision, and the kid’s action is willful, malicious or unlawful.November 9, 2010 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #708083
aries2756: Only if the child’s actions are the result of the parent’s negligence. (This is for NYS)November 9, 2010 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #708084
Can a married woman sign a contract? If so, and she breaks it, what recourse does the other party have?
Since she owns no assets (unless it is pre-marital), and her husband is not financially responsible for her actions, it would seem there is no recourse. Unless a married woman can’t be a party to a contract in the first place.November 9, 2010 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #708085
What is a contract in halacha?November 10, 2010 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #708086MoqMember
She can obligate herself:
a- It is possible for her to have assets that her husband does not have rights over (if someone gives her something ‘al manas sh’en l’baalech reshus baah). In addition, her own personal possessions belong to her.
b- the obligation exists; should her husband die/divorce, the obligation would be applicable.
She is not considered incompetent. In addition, small sums that she may use without her husband permission, in that realm she may make agreements ( many realms of the home are purely her’s; in these areas, her husband clearly acqueises to whatever her will is).
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