Photos & Shidduchim – Appropriate Or Not?๐Ÿ–ผ๏ธ๐Ÿคต๐Ÿ‘ฐ

Home Coffeeroom Shidduchim Photos & Shidduchim – Appropriate Or Not?๐Ÿ–ผ๏ธ๐Ÿคต๐Ÿ‘ฐ

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 72 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1675102

    nu.whats.the.hock
    Participant

    When looking for a shidduch, can you ask for a picture?

    #1675181

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    In my opinion pictures are stupid and serve zero purpose. But this is the way the world works, thanks to increasingly ridiculous demands (mostly from the parents of people in shidduchim, and the shadchanim capitulating on said demands).

    But if you really want to do pictures, there has to be an agreement with the shadchan that both parties will receive each others picture. Otherwise it’s just prust and arrogant to ask.

    #1675248

    Haimy
    Participant

    It all depends on the needs/values of the individual involved. If externals are high on the list then by all means pictures are useful. If not, then why limit your choices based on a photo.
    David Lichtenstein posed this question to Rabbi Sorcher of Detroit & Rabbi Shafier of the Shmuz both endorsed the looking at a photo for shidduch purposes.

    #1675246

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Actually, of the two relatively recent additions to the shidduch process ( resumes and pictures ) pictures make the most sense. Resumes are rarely truthful as people will rarely include unflattering details and references. However, pictures are much harder to fake

    #1675278

    Joseph
    Participant

    Pruste people give and/or ask for a picture.

    #1675286

    DaasYochid โ˜•
    Participant

    However, pictures are much harder to fake

    How to Deal with a Request for a Shidduch Picture

    #1675338

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Why is asking for a picture any more prust then going on dates in the darkness of the night?
    And in most cases in a car.

    #1675442

    besalel
    Participant

    How on Earth are you supposed to know whether or not you will be willing to marry someone without knowing what that person looks like? Seems to me that receiving a picture prevents an unnecessary waste of resources.

    #1675483

    Yosseleh
    Participant

    Photos should be allowed. However, the image of the one who is not male should be photoshopped out of her picture

    #1675552

    I think pictures are a good thing.

    True, lots of people who are crazy don’t LOOK crazy, but lots of people who are not so normal…well, look not so normal.

    When someone sends you a picture of a myoung bochur who is unkept, shirt tucked half in and half out, wearing all sorts of interesting clothing and a strange look in their eyes…you know something isn’t right.

    I could of wasted a date with this person.

    I also get anxiety thinking every human is going to pass is possibly my date.
    In addition itโ€™s like super awkward when someone comes and theyโ€™re extremely short, tall, fat or anything and it takes a moment to compose yourself and accept that this is what he looks like etc, and not show your surprise, shock, or frustration on your face.

    I just like knowing whatโ€™s happening and not seeing a picture makes me incredibly nervous. I donโ€™t really care if heโ€™s extremely good looking or really not so when it comes down to whether or not I think heโ€™s my zivug or not.

    I donโ€™t see the problem with pictures at all.

    #1675613

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    We live in a real world where the large percentage of young men and women DO care about the “looks” of their prospective spouse and that is unlikely to change. We can pontificate about how “looks shouldn’t matter” and “its only whats inside the person that counts”. However, given that people do care, it makes sense to ask for a photo in advance of the first date rather than showing up and finding a date a foot taller/shorter or really obese or dressing in a matter that shows little respect for either oneself or the person you are meeting with.

    #1675626

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    .
    ืื™ืŸ ื“ื•ืžื” ืฉืžื™ืขื” ืœืจื™ืื”

    #1675625

    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    There are people who unfortunately look very bad in pictures even though they are very good looking in real life.

    #1675658

    Haimy
    Participant

    Pictures only show a small amount of persons chein but they are still a useful piece of information.
    Rav Matisyahu Solomon said a bachur should know that when he goes under the chuppa he takes along all his taavos with him. Being overly righteous while dating is a recipe for unhappiness later.
    I don’t think it’s a chessed do date someone & then reject them for something that you would know in one glance at a photo.

    #1675665

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Some people don’t photograph well. Others can show a photo professionally done with lighting, etc.
    Many times you’re not attracted to the type of look of the girl in the photo, but when you meet her , you see her differently because she’s a live human, not photograph with no soul or inherent charm. Who knows how many shidduchim never materialized because of photos.
    Who looks at the pics anyway?? The whole mishpacha?
    Funny that women’s photos are Photoshopped or outright deleted in the frum media, yet here gazing at a female from every which angle is kosher.
    I predict video clips are next, if it’s not already happening. Imagine the prepping for that.
    BTW… How come the tzaddikel doesn’t have to send pics of himself ? Or does he?

    #1675686

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Yosselah: You say that photos are OK but, “the image of the one who is not male should be photoshopped out of her picture…” Huhhhโ€ฆ..so if a guy wants to see a photo of the girl someone wants to set him up with, she should send the picture but photoshop out her face and only show her picture from the shoulders down. Why bother with such a photo. Otherwise, what are you saying……perhaps you mean that if the photo includes her little sister as well, she should photoshop out her sister. If someone is looking for a shiduch and he/she is going to include a photo with their introduction letter/resume I’m assuming he/she would go to a photographer to get a nice portrait photo and not send a group photo with her mishapacha or Seminary classmates.

    #1675689

    DaasYochid โ˜•
    Participant

    Some people donโ€™t photograph well. Others can show a photo professionally done with lighting, etc.
    Many times youโ€™re not attracted to the type of look of the girl in the photo, but when you meet her , you see her differently because sheโ€™s a live human, not photograph with no soul or inherent charm. Who knows how many shidduchim never materialized because of photos.

    I agree.

    Funny that womenโ€™s photos are Photoshopped or outright deleted in the frum media, yet here gazing at a female from every which angle is kosher.

    Although I’m against pictures on shidduch resumes, I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. In general, a man shouldn’t look at a woman he’s not married to, but the one exception is before he marries her. ืืกื•ืจ ืœืื“ื ืฉื™ืงื“ืฉ ืืช ื”ืืฉื” ืขื“ ืฉื™ืจืื ื”

    You can fulfill this gemara by meeting her (obviously) I’m just pointing out that your comparison isn’t great.

    #1675693

    DaasYochid โ˜•
    Participant

    Also, the people who wouldn’t buy the Yated if it had pictures of women in it aren’t the ones asking for pictures in shidduch resumes.

    #1675696

    ZionGate
    Participant

    DY,
    I’m still interested to know how many people look at the picture other than the boy& parents. I suspect the photo makes its rounds ( of course, not everybody ) among family and maybe friends. I know 2 boys who’ve shown the pic of the girl they’re dating to others including myself, and I rebuked them for it. I’m concerned how widespread this is…. And not merely from a religious standpoint but just menchlichkeit and treating the girl like an object to get others’ opinions.

    #1675709

    DaasYochid โ˜•
    Participant

    I don’t know how many. I share your disgust and concern. In my circles, it’s uncommon.

    #1675714

    Joseph
    Participant

    Are you kidding? Other than the boy & parents? There are WhatsApp “shidduch” groups with hundreds of people that these photos get plastered all over. And from there forwarded to other groups of hundreds more.

    And, as you said, they’re shown off by the boys and girls themselves to friends and others.

    #1675723

    Haimy
    Participant

    Every tool Hashem gives us can be abused including photos. I understood that the question was about the responsible use of a photo when looking into a shidduch.

    #1675756

    โ€œAlso, the people who wouldnโ€™t buy the Yated if it had pictures of women in it arenโ€™t the ones asking for pictures in shidduch resumeโ€

    I donโ€™t really believe that to be the case

    #1675758

    Mammele
    Participant

    Pictures shouldnโ€™t be used unless thereโ€™s really no choice such as in an overseas shidduch.

    That doesnโ€™t mean Iโ€™ve never seen one for a shidduch redt to one of my children. In one instance the photo (provided to me by a third party, not the Shadchen) the girl looked great, but when I saw her IRL (at a wedding after the shidduch didnโ€™t materialize – nothing officially set up) I noticed she had a slight hunch. Iโ€™m not implying that scoliosis should break a shidduch, just that photos do not show the full picture (pun intended) even where looks are concerned.

    Similarily I know of a case where the other party desperately wanted a photo first for practical reasons, but when they couldn’t get one and the parents actually saw the suggested person, decided he/she was too short/tall. This person is actually of average height, and itโ€™s almost impossible to judge height to that degree on a photo. So mostly, itโ€™s a waste of time.

    #1675760

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    I would not have gone out with a boy who wanted a picture of me. The shadchan and the references can describe girl (or for that matter the boy). “She’s short.” “He’s robust and substantial.” “She walks with a cane.” “He has a distinctive scar on his left cheek, but his beard covers most of it.” Etc. You’ll see exactly what the person looks like when you meet.

    #1675764

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @joseph I know you’re just trolling, but I happen to agree with you. As recently as ten years ago asking for a picture was frowned upon. Recently it’s become expected.

    As for everyone talking about “can’t marry without looking” what do you think the shidduch dates are about? Are you supposed to glance at a photo then date with a blindfold around your eyes?

    #1675768

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Many of the important points people raise can’t be seen in a photo- for example, how tall/short person is will be hard to tell from a photo unless it is of the whole person, and generally even then it would be hard to tell unless he/she is standing next to something/someone else. The photo may also not be recent- perhaps he/she gained weight since. Why can’t these things be clarified from people who know him/her?
    whether he/she goes about un-tucked, messy, unkempt, dressed in a way that is not respectful- I doubt that people would send a photo that way. More likely, the photo is carefully arranged and may not reflect how the person actually looks/acts in real life, or even on a date. Ever see a photo of someone taken at a wedding, all dressed up, with lots of makeup, hair done etc, and it doesn’t remotely look like the person usually does?
    Yes, looks count in a shidduch. But to make a snap judgement based on a 2-dimensional depiction that may not reflect reality, without giving the person a chance to show personality and chein, which can add so much to a person’s beauty, even externally?

    #1675807

    Joseph
    Participant

    I’ll bet many people (who engage in this sad picture passing) Photoshop their shidduch picture. Thin herself out, a little taller, airbrush those pimples, etc.

    #1675808

    Joseph
    Participant

    Winnie, shouldn’t we be complaining about that she phenomenon when people date? You know, before they go out on a date they dress up and make up and do their hair in ways they don’t look like they would on a normal weekday or even on a regular Shabbos.

    #1676000

    besalel
    Participant

    ื•ื—ื™ ื”ืฉื ื™ืชื‘ืจืš ื›ื™ ื”ื›ืช ื”ื–ื” ืžืื‘ื“ื™ื ื”ื“ืจืช ื”ืชื•ืจื” ื•ืžืืคื™ืœื™ื ื–ื”ืจื”, ื•ืžืฉื™ืžื™ื ืชื•ืจืช ื”’ ื‘ื”ื™ืคืš ื”ืžื›ื•ื•ืŸ ื‘ื”. ืœืคื™ ืฉื”ืฉื ื™ืชื‘ืจืš ืืžืจ ื‘ืชื•ืจื” ื”ืชืžื™ืžื” “ืืฉืจ ื™ืฉืžืขื•ืŸ ืืช ื›ืœ ื”ื—ื•ืงื™ื ื”ืืœื” ื•ืืžืจื• ืจืง ืขื ื—ื›ื ื•ื ื‘ื•ืŸ ื”ื’ื•ื™ ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœ ื”ื–ื””, ื•ื”ื›ืช ื”ื–ืืช ืžืกืคืจื™ื ืžืฉืคื˜ื™ ื“ื‘ืจื™ ื”ื—ื›ืžื™ื ื–”ืœ ืžื” ืฉื›ืฉืฉื•ืžืขื™ื ืื•ืชื• ืฉืืจ ื”ืื•ืžื•ืช, ืื•ืžืจื™ื “ืจืง ืขื ืกื›ืœ ื•ื ื‘ืœ ื”ื’ื•ื™ ื”ืงื˜ืŸ ื”ื–ื””

    #1676005

    I send pictures out easily. I have nothing to hide, I’d rather you see a picture of me than come stalk me at my work or take your own photos to show people if you see me in the street.

    This is me, if someone thinks I’m ugly and won’t date me based on seeing a photo first, than I wouldn’t want to marry him anyway.

    Yes I know people can look unflattering in photos, I definitely have gone out with people who looks better in person. But again, really insane looking people usually look pretty insane ib person too.

    #1676068

    knaidlach
    Participant

    shopping613
    and the same for sending your pic. I think you are limiting your chances by sending your pic.
    (well really I shouldn’t say that to you because I don’t know what you look like, so maybe it doesn’t apply to you. but I am talking in general)

    #1676062

    knaidlach
    Participant

    I am against it. because let say you don’t like the way he/she looks in the picture, you would not go ahead with it. but have you met the person and see his/her personality then the looks wouldn’t bother you (as much).
    when requiring about the other prior to going out, you should definitely ask about looks, and as long you hear that he/she is at least average looking, don’t ask for a picture. in other words: a picture might limit your chances.

    #1676088

    Joseph
    Participant

    knaidlach: What on earth does “at least average looking” even mean? Everyone uses different barometers regarding averages or what constitutes good looking. There’s no two people who necessarily are talking about the same thing when using such ambiguous language.

    Furthermore, one shouldn’t be asking about looks altogether. That is very pruste. You’ll see each others looks when you date. Not that looks should be one of the top criteria for a shidduch, but that is a separate issue altogether.

    #1676087

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I really don’t understand this whole thread. If the guy/girl wants a photo and you are comfortable sending one, thats fine. It provides just one item of information among many decision points. For some its important, for others less so. Likewise, failure to provide a photo may or not be important to some but it could be a deal breaker for some. In any event, its obviously a matter of personal preference, not a big issue of halacha or morality.

    #1676116

    DaasYochid โ˜•
    Participant

    Iโ€™ll bet many people (who engage in this sad picture passing) Photoshop their shidduch picture. Thin herself out, a little taller, airbrush those pimples, etc.

    …replace with a picture of a different person…

    #1676127

    avocado
    Participant

    If you want to know if someone is fat or short or tall or has a tail there are other ways to find out.

    #1676124

    avocado
    Participant

    In my experience boys NEVER look the same IRL as they do in pic. Nor do they act the way you expected based on the picture.

    #1676151

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Avocado…you say the boys NEVER look the same in real life as they do in their pictures. Does that mean the girls photos are considerably more realistic and only the bochurim photoshop their images and act contrary to the way you expected on the picture??

    P.S. How do you know how a bochur will act based on a photo other than if the photo itself shows him engaged in some wierd behavior inappropriate for a shiduch photo?

    #1676222

    knaidlach
    Participant

    avocado
    how would you know if he has a tail or not?

    #1676223

    knaidlach
    Participant

    Joseph
    1) if you ask lots of people and you get the same answer, you have a general idea of what he/she looks like.
    2) yes maybe its prost to ask about looks, but we are talking about someone who does want to know about the looks.

    #1676226

    knaidlach
    Participant

    shopping613
    seems you are very comfortable in your own skin. very healthy emotionally. people who are not comfortable in their own skin, are not emotionally strong and healthy and might turn to unhealthy avenues to medicate themselves to make them feel comfartable and good.

    #1676254

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    I find it ironic that everyone or most everyone finds ut pruste fir a boy to ask for a girls picture.
    But its ok to go take out a girl for hours on end , in the dark of night, locked in a car on a deserted hiways and biways.

    #1676258

    DaasYochid โ˜•
    Participant

    No, it’s not okay. Who says it’s common? If you know people violating hilchos yichud, you should give appropriate tochachah.

    #1676285

    Lucy
    Participant

    If the girl has to send a pic, the boy should have to as well. Id love to hear what their mothers would say to that.
    Asking for a picture definitely says something about the boy in question. Not a good something

    #1676286

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    DaasYochid โ˜•Participant
    No, itโ€™s not okay. Who says itโ€™s common? If you know people violating hilchos yichud, you should give appropriate tochachah.
    ——————————————-
    Wake up and smell the coffee. Go take a poll at the mir, ny, bmg, chaim Berlin etc.
    Its almost as standard as wearing white shirts in said yeshivas

    #1676317

    ZionGate
    Participant

    That’s why I predict video clips to hear how she talks, see her height/ weight , how she walks & gestures…. see her teeth, eye color , glasses or contacts , dimples & freckles. How many girls want to submit to that?

    #1676321

    barty crouch jr
    Participant

    There should be clear rules about the pictures used for Shidduch purposes. It should be a picture of the boy/girl taken within the last few weeks and should only be a headshot. The girl should be wearing no make-up or jewellery, should not be smiling and her hair should be tied back in a manner befitting a true bas yisrael. The picture should be taken in doors with a plain white background. Passport or driving license pictures are OK bdi’eved (if taken within the last few weeks obviously) but L’chatchila the girl should not be looking directly at the camera in the picture as this shows a lack of Tzninua. The picture of the boy should similarly be a headshot with a white-background, no smiling ect, however it is vitally important that the length of both his peyos and beard are clearly visible in the picture.

    #1676332

    knaidelach: .

    edited

    Do you think my zivug would not be willing to go out with me based on a picture? I think that’s a lack of emunah. Hashem will send me my zivug even if I was truly ugly. Ugly people get married, bad people, unhealthy people get married. Heck, Hitler was married. I don’t think that giving my picture out will make Hashem decide to withhold my shidduch. I also do not photoshop my pictures at all and I only send headshots mainly, or from the torso and up.

    @joseph, it’s true I’ll see looks when I’ll date, but again; I like to be prepared so I won’t be rude, stare, etc on a date IF someone is overly fat, skinny, ugly, or something. I just like to know what to expect and it helps me feel calmer and have a better date. I’ve dated with and without pictures..

    #1676381

    Lucy
    Participant

    Shopping.,
    The information youre looking for is very general and can usualy be obtained without a picture

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 72 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


Trending