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  • #1943339
    mkylb
    Participant

    If our community’s current behaviour continues through Purim, it is an absolute certainty that thousands will die as a result.
    Now is the time for us, the regular people who normally try and keep our heads down, to stand up and demand that our Rabbonim and community leaders come out unequivocally to say that Purim MUST be different this year. No big parties, no seudos with multiple families, no shpielers going from door to door, no shouting and singing in Shul.
    We cannot claim ignorance like we did last Purim when no one knew Covid was amongst us.
    So far, there has been absolute silence from our leaders.

    #1943687
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    We have RJJ in Staten Island to send shloach monos for you, so you don’t have to do it yourself.

    #1943810
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Pirkei Avos (Ethics of the Fathers) mishna 5:7 outlines 7 signs of the wise anda golem:

    โ€œ7 [indications] of the golem and 7 of the wise:

    1) The wise person does not speak prior to someone greater in wisdom or in years
    The opposite is a golem.

    PS all your topic are very Trollish

    #1943812
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    MKYLB speaks emes. Nearly 400 Israelis died last week and that number may grow over the next 4 weeks as the new virus strains become more prevalent. In the U.S. the infection rates in frum neighborhoods remain well above national averages. Yet there still seems to be some reluctance to shut down larger gatherings, whether chassanahs or Purim parties. How many levayahs will it take to convince the leadership of the tzibur to come to their senses. Is shaach monos and megillah read more important that the lives put at risk?

    #1943822
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @ godalthorah when you archive 1 half of 1 % of Rav Chaim knowledge I will value your opinion

    #1943840
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Common Saychel: Thanks for the vote of confidence. My most recent test scores were at 0.738 percent so I am well above your threshold for recognition of my psak on foregoing shalach monos this year.

    #1943848
    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    0.738 percent is less than 1%

    #1943852
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    According to my records your at .008 so you opinion does not matter

    #1943982

    Baltimore maven,

    He said one half of one percent which is .5 (of one percent)

    #1944038
    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    He said archive half of 1 percent.
    I guess that means having 1 pct and using half of it?

    #1944047

    All moot, because it’s nowhere close to that.

    #1944054
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Putting aside the mathematical skills of common saychel et. al., does anyone who has looked at the YWN news page in the past 48 hours really believe that its OK to participate in large gatherings for Purim or any other reason right now, irrespective of which Rav may have endorsed the same or hopefully urged against it? It seems like there has been an acceleration in the number and rate of chashuvah rabbonim having been niftar from Covid, or maybe its just my imagination.

    #1944077
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @gadolhatar, each of the Rabbonim who where nifter were well into the 90s the malah havovis has his own bag of tricks, the people who pasken can manage without your input

    #1944082

    Commonsaychel- you are correct in what you say. However, the poskim had been speaking out and you have advocate against their psak.

    #1944097
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    common Saychel: So its ok if they are niftar in their 90s from Covid?? I could care less what others may think but it seems to be common saychel to take every possible precaution during this time to protect everyone, young and old and continue to do so for at least the next few months. If you watched any of the videos of the levyah of Rav Dovid today and you think it was “ok” than we are obviously living on different planets.

    Mild edit

    #1944105

    GH – ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿป

    #1944114

    asme person posted:
    >> 1 half of 1 % of Rav Chaim knowledge
    >> each of the Rabbonim who where nifter were well into the 90s

    I am not sure how you can at the same time value opinions of Talmidei Hahamim and disregard their lives. I can’t imagine who are people surrounding Talmidei Hahamim that lead to this. I can’t imagine R Twersky ZT’L being not careful himself.

    #1944115
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Syag, I dont “advocate” for anything in regards to Covid, I ask my daas torah what I should do and I follow his advice, I certainly dont have the chutzpah to tell a godol what to say

    #1944121

    I have no doubt you follow daas torah, and i have no doubt you have been told you do not need to wear a madk, but you have been very anti mask and have made comments about making a point to dance and hug and attend crowded simchas. I have reason to doubt any rov allowing you to be maskless has given the go ahead for such advocacy.

    #1944123

    No offense to all the lomdim who are members of the coffee room, I will wait until closer to purim and see what my poseik says what to do about shaloch manos.

    #1944128
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Lower tuition: You can safely send shalach monos via USPS. Although they are guaranteed to arrive before the sedorim, perhaps consider some really good buys on leftover macaroons from last year.

    #1944172

    >> shaloch manos.

    R Schechter reminded that this is a good year to follow Rambam on spending more on poor than on friends

    #1944264

    Send thru USPS? Are goyim a kosher shaliach?

    #1944321
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The RMA paskens SA O’CH 695,4 that if someone sends mishloach manos and the other does not want to accept it, he is still yotzei. The Chasam Sofer explains that the mitzva is the giving, to show love and unity, and not the receiving. According to this if he takes it himself and not by shaliach it should not matter and also if sent through the USPS. The halacha is in hilchas sudas Purim that the sudah should not be sudas kreso but sharing it with others. Therefore, says the Ksav Sofer, that if he has a good heart and wants to give a mishloach manos on Purim Katan, he can also make a sudah. The SA starts with yeriah and finishes with ahavah both tamid which is included in ืฉื ื™ ืชืžื™ื“ื™ื ื›ื”ืœื›ืชื.

    #1944322
    cv
    Participant

    Lower tuition – so, if our parents leave in the another state we should not send them shaloch manos via USPS /UPS/FedEX?

    #1944331
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The shaliach is not the mitzva but a heiche timtzo, a means to get it to one, as according to the Rambam and the Kapos Teporim, the mitzva of shafor is not the blowing but the hearing the sound, so we make a bracha on hearng and not blowing.

    #1944347
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    CV: Find some “bored” bochurim from a local kolel that is closed due to Covid restrictions and have then drive and deliver your shalach monos and earn some money on the side. You would be doing two mitzvahs (assuming they could listen to some recorded shiiruim while driving and thereby avoiding responsibility for their bitul torah).

    #1944418
    the square
    Participant

    So now Reb Eliezer is a self-proclaimed posek who uses taamah dikrah to extrapolate novel halachos that have no acceptable sources (unless you count YWN coffee room). Reb Eliezer, I would run that shtikle Torah by a competent Torah scholar before acting upon it or paskening for the masses. You can simplify the question at hand: “Can a goy act as an agent to deliver a shalach manos?”

    #1944447
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    the square, not a circle, thanks for making fun of me but I happen to be right. Many, Rav Yudah Assad a talmid of Rav Mordechai Binet very highly regarded by the Chasam Sofer, O’CH 1,204 and the Chelyas Yaakov O’CH 234 and Rav Menashe Klein ztz’l, Mishneh Halachos 6,121 quoting above Rav Yudah Assad say that you can send mishloach manos through a katan, so you can also send it through a goy as shlichas does not apply here and therefore, I say you can send it also through the post office just make sure to get there by Purim. I happened to think clearly with siyata dishmaya.

    #1944484

    As I referred above, I hope you still have 2 friends around you, then USPS for your remote relatives does not deter you from the mitzvah, and spend the rest on people who need help.

    This is a great year to learn your priorities and separate d’Oraitos from heimishe minhagim. And learning to be meikil. If you learned in a yeshiva where they only teach the easy way – how to be machmir, you may want to call them and demand a free class on who to be meikil.

    #1944485

    How do you know Haman from Mordechai if they are both in a mask?!

    #1944489
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Yes, see Yehudah Yaaleh, 1,204 from Rav Yehuda Assad quoted by Rav Menasheh Klein in Mishnah Halachos proving that a katan can be a shaliach so can a goy because shelichas does not apply as I said before with siyata dishmaya.

    #1944507
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Sadly, anyone considering using USPS for shalach monos clearly made such a decision in an ‘ad shelo yadah” state of mind which would imply that the shalach manos would have even been mailed until after 15 Adar which by definition, means it will arrive late.

    #1944520

    USPS?
    How about Amazon One Hour delivery? You can drink and order same day. I know this clashes with another thread.

    #1944522
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Mordechai has a long beard without a chup in the back.

    #1944798

    CV: I dont pasken by the anonymous posters here in the coffee room. Ask your poseik if you can send through a goy. I was taught not.

    #1944827
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    ืฉื•”ืช ืžืฉื ื” ื”ืœื›ื•ืช ื—ืœืง ื• ืกื™ืžืŸ ืงื›ื

    ื•ื‘ื—ื™ื“ื•ืฉื™ ื›ืชื‘ืชื™ ื‘ื–ื” ื•ื–”ืœ ื•ื›ื‘ืจ ื—ืงืจ ื›ืขื™ืŸ ื—ืงื™ืจื” ื–ื• ื”ื’ืจืข”ื ื‘ื”ื’ื”ื•ืช ื—”ืก ืขืœ ืื•”ื— ื•ื–”ืœ ื‘ืœืงื•ื˜ื™ ื—ื‘ืจ ื‘ืŸ ื—ื™ื™ื ื—”ื ื‘ื”ื’ื”ื•ืช ืขืœ ืกืคืจ ื™ื”ื•ื“ื” ื™ืขืœื” ืกื™’ ืจ”ื“ ื›ืชื‘ ื•ื–”ืœ ืฉืžืขืชื™ ืžืคื™ ืžื•ืจื™ ื”ื’ืื•ืŸ ื–ืฆ”ืœ ื›ื™ ืžืจ ื—ืžื™ื• ื”ื’ืื•ืŸ ืจืข”ื ื ืกืชืคืง ื“ื›ื™ื•ืŸ ื“ื›ืชื™ื‘ ืœืฉื•ืŸ ืฉืœื™ื—ื•ืช ื•ืžืฉืœื•ื— ืžื ื•ืช ืืคืฉืจ ื“ื‘ืขื™ื ืŸ ื“ื™ืŸ ืฉืœื™ื—ื•ืช ื•ืื™ื ื• ื™ื•ืฆื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืฉืœื™ื— ืขื›ื•”ื ื•ืžืจืŸ ื”ืฉื™ื‘ ืœื• ืื•ืœื™ ื”ื™ื” ื”ืžืฆื•ื” ืœื”ื•ื‘ื™ืœ ื‘ืขืฆืžื• ื•ืจืง ืข”ื™ ืฉืœื™ื— ื’”ื› ื™ื•ืฆื ืžืฉื•ื
    ืฉืœื•ื—ื• ืฉืœ ืื“ื ื›ืžื•ืชื• ื”ื•ื™ ืฉื™ื™ืš ื“ื™ืŸ ืฉืœื™ื—ื•ืช ืื‘ืœ ืžืื—ืจ ืฉื”ืžืฆื•ื” ืžืฉืœื•ื— ื“ื•ืงื ืžืฆื™ ืœืฉืœื•ื— ื’ื ืข”ื™ ื’ื•ื™ ืข”ืฉ ื•ืฉื™ืฉื™ ืžืขื™ ืฉื‘”ื” ื›ื™ื•ื ืชื™
    ืœื“ืขืช ื”ื’ืื•ืŸ ื–”ืœ ืข”ื› ืžื—ื“ื•ืฉื™ ื”ื ”ืœ

    #1944828
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    ืฉื•”ืช ื—ืœืงืช ื™ืขืงื‘ ืื•ืจื— ื—ื™ื™ื ืกื™ืžืŸ ืจืœื“
    ืื ืืคืฉืจ ืœืงื™ื™ื ืžืฆื•ืช ืžืฉืœื•ื— ืžื ื•ืช ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืขื›ื•”ื
    ืชืฉื•ื‘ื” ื›ื”ืœื›ื” ืœื”ืจื‘ ื”ื””ื’ ื•ื›ื•’ ืžืจ ื™ืฆื—ืง ื”ื›ื”ืŸ ื”ื•ื‘ืขืจืžืืŸ ื‘ืขื™ืจ ื‘ื•ืœื’ืจื™ื™ ื”ืคื•ืœื ื™ืช ื‘ืขื”ืž”ื— ืกืคืจ ืžืงื‘ื™ืœื•ืช
    ื”ืœื•ืœืื•ืช
    ืื—ื“ืฉื””ื˜ ื›ืžืฉืคื˜ ืœืฉื•ื—ืจื™ ืชื•ืจื”
    ื‘ื“ื‘ืจ ืกืคืงื• ื‘ื’ ื”ื“ืจ ื™ื—ื™ื“ื™ ื‘ื›ืคืจ ื•ืื™ืŸ ืœื• ืœืžื™ ืœืงื™ื™ื ืžืฆื•ืช ืžืฉืœื•ื— ืžื ื•ืช ื•ืฆืจื™ืš ืœืฉืœื—ื• ืœืขื™ืจ ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืขื›ื•”ื ืื™ ืžืงื™ื™ื ื”ืžืฆื•ื” ื›ื™ื•ืŸ ื“ืื™ืŸ
    ืฉืœื™ื—ื•ืช ืœืขื›ื•”ื
    ื) ื‘ืคืฉื™ื˜ื•ืช ื ืœืคืข”ื“ ืฉืงื™ื™ื ื”ืžืฆื•ื”, ื•ื›ืžื• ืฉื”ืขื™ืจ ื›ืช”ื” ื‘ืขืฆืžื• ื“ื”ืจื™ ืื ื• ืฉื•ืœื—ื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืงื˜ื ื™ื, ื•ืขื™’ ืงื™ื“ื•ืฉื™ืŸ ื›”ื’ ื•ื”ื ืงื™”ืœ ื“ื™ื“ ืขื‘ื“
    ื›ื™ื“ ืจื‘ื• ื•ื‘ืจืฉ”ื™ ืฉื ื•ื”ื ืžืขืฉื™ื ื‘ื›ืœ ื™ื•ื ื•ื“ืฃ ืœ”ื– ืชืคื™ืœื™ืŸ ืืฉื›ื—ื ืŸ ืจื‘ื ืŸ ื“ืžื ื—ื™ ืชืคื™ืœื™ืŸ ื‘ื‘ื‘ืœ ื•ื‘”ืž ื˜”ื• ื‘’ ื•ื”ื ืžืขืฉื™ื ื‘ื›ืœ ื™ื•ื ื•ื›ื•’ ื•ื””ื  ืžืขืฉื™ื ื‘ื›ืœ ื™ื•ื ืฉืฉื•ืœื—ื™ืŸ ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืงื˜ื ื™ื ื”ืจื™ ื“ืœื ืฆืจื™ืš ืœืฉืœื™ื—ื•ืช. ื•ื”ืกื‘ืจื ืคืฉื•ื˜ื” – ื‘ืฉืœืžื ื’ื‘ื™ ืงื™ื“ื•ืฉื™ืŸ ื•ื’ื™ืจื•ืฉื™ืŸ ื•ืชืจื•ืžื” ืฉื”ื•ื ื‘ืขืฆืžื• ืฆืจื™ืš ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื”ืžื’ืจืฉ ืื• ื”ื ื•ืชืŸ ืจืง ื“ื”ืชื•ืจื” ื’ื™ืœืชื” ื“ืฉืœื•ื—ื• ืฉืœ ืื“ื ื›ืžื•ืชื• ื•ื“ื•ืงื ื‘ื‘ืจ ืฉืœื™ื—ื•ืช ื•ืื™ ืœืื• ืœื ื”ื•ื™ ื›ืžื•ืชื•, ืื‘ืœ ื”ื›ื
    ื“ืขื™ืงืจ ืžืฆื•ื” ื”ื™ื ื”ืžืฉืœื•ื—, ืื“ืจื‘ื” ื™ืฉ ืกืคืง ืื ื ืชืŸ ื‘ืขืฆืžื• ืื ืงื™ื™ื ื”ืžืฆื•ื”, ืขื™’ ืž”ื‘ ืชืจืฆ”ื”, ืื ื›ืŸ ืžื” ืื™ื›ืคืช ืœืŸ ืื ืื™ื ื• ื‘ืจ
    ืฉืœื™ื—ื•ืช ื•ืื™ื ื• ื›ืžื•ืชื•, ืกื•”ืก ืงื™ื™ื ื”ืžืฆื•ื” ื•ืฉืœื—, ื•ื–ื” ืขื™ืงืจ ื”ืžืฆื•ื”, ื•ื–ื” ื‘ืจื•ืจ, ื•ืจืื™ืชื™ ื‘ืื™ื–ื” ืžืŸ ื”ืžื—ื‘ืจื™ื ืกื‘ืจื ื–ื•

    #1944829
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    ืฉื•”ืช ื™ื”ื•ื“ื” ื™ืขืœื” (ืืกืื“) ื—ืœืง ื – ืื•ืจื— ื—ื™ื™ื ืกื™ืžืŸ ืจื“
    ื•ืžืžื™ืœื ืื™ืŸ ื‘ื–ื” ืžืฉื•ื ืžืœืชื ื“ืœื ืžืฆื™ ืขื‘ื™ื“ ื”ืฉืชื ืœื ืžืฆื™ ืžืฉื•ื™ ืฉืœื™ื— ื“ื”ืฆ ื‘ื–ื” ืฉืœื™ื—ื•ืช ื›ืœืœ ื“ื”ื ืžืฉืœื—ื™ื ื’ื ืข”ื™ ืงื˜ื ื™ื ื•ืขื‘ื™”ื“ ืข”ื™
    ืขื›ื•”ื. ื•ื”ื™ื ืจืง ื”ื›ื ื” ื•ื”ื›ืฉืจ ืžืฆื•ื” ืฉืขื•ืฉื” ืžืงื•ื“ื ื›ื“ื™ ืœื’ื•ืžืจื” ื‘ื–ืžื ื•

    #1944873
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    They also say that if the mitzva woulld be that you personaly must send then it would be a question if a goy is considered like you as there is no shalichus by a goy. However the MB O’CH 695 questions that maybe we need a shaliach and it is no good to send by oneself. Therefore, it just a means to get it to someone, shalichus does not apply over here and we can send it with a goy and also by yourself.

    #1944985
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    According to the Aruch Hashulchan there, we should sent it on Purim in order to create simcha.

    #1945083
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The above Yehudah Yaaleh view is also the Chasam Sofer’s view as indicated in reply #1944827 from the Sefer Mishnah Halochos by Rav Menasha Klein ztz’l allowing to send it with a goy.

    #1945106
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    How about everyone should ask the own daas torah and follow what they say,

    #1945275

    >> ask the own daas torah

    this is a legit shailah, but what do I do in general?

    My “daas Torah” does not believe in “daas Torah” (and points out to Encyclopedia Talmudit that the concept is not in the Gemorah)?

    #1945338
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @always ask questions, if that’s the case you have a lot bigger issues then how to do the mitzvas of purim, one of the basic tenants of Frumkiet is “asay lechoh rav”

    #1945388
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Daas Torah from the Maharsham of Brezon the grandfather of Rav Shvadron also qoutes the above Rav Yehudah Assad, Yehudah Yaaleh, O’CH 204 on the SA O’CH 695,4.

    #1945576

    >> โ€œasay lechoh ravโ€

    thanks, that’s in the Mishna, my Rav knows that. “Daas Torah” (DT) is not the same and, as I mentioned, is no in the Gemorah. (if you think it is the same, you are doing DT wrong!).

    I did not double-check Encyclopedia Talmudit myself, relying on what the Rav said, on his “daas Torah”, if you wish ๐Ÿ™‚

    So, seems like I am stuck in this paradox – my DT says there is no DT .. So, if I follow his DT, it is not binding. If I don’t follow his DT, then I am not following on his DT …

    PS if you are afraid you are doing it wrong – here is material that might help fix your DT:
    Wiki quotes Rav Shafran (pro) who admits taht the phrase is new but refers to other related concepts and Rav Nahum Rabinowitz Z”L against. Amazon has a 460 page book by Daniel Eidensohn of Daas Torah Hebrew sources ….

    #1945892
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @always ask, the Jewish people always had a “moreh derech” since time kabolas hatorah, call it dass torah or other names it not relevant as to what it is called it is our mesorah, I know this does not match your or the OP agenda but that is the fact.
    In Oz Yosher we say “vaymeanu behashem ubMoshe avod, first mishna in avos is moshe kebul torah msinai and it lists out the line of succession, the more recent histroy we had the GRA, Talmiday Bal Shem ZTL etc. in the recent past you had the Chofetz Chaim, Reb Chaim Brisker, Sanzer Rebbe ZTL
    recently we had Reb Moshe, Rav Elyashiv, Satmar Rebbe ZTL, so your Rabbi and your encyclopedia can take the slow boat to China and no one will notice any difference

    #1945920
    Meno
    Participant

    Are we saying there’s no such thing as Daas Torah because the term doesn’t exist in Encyclopedia Talmudis?

    Well in that case I think I’ll stop “davening” in “shul”.

    #1945978
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The generations become weaker in Torah knowledge. The Rabbenu Bachaya at the end of Parashas Ki Siso explains that mishna was written concisely as we could only write down what was necessary for understanding but as the generation became weaker, more became necessary. Therefore, in our psak, we rely on our previous poskim who were smarter than we are. I pointed out the ruling of the Chasam Sofer, Rav Yehudah Assad and the Maharsham which is being dismissed because of lack of knowledge. I don’t see the Encyclipedia Talmudis talking about a goy being a shaliach but you might want to look at the Sefer Piskei Teshuvas siman 695 referring to the above.

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