September 5, 2023 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #2223217sechel83Participant
ראה גם קדושת לוי פ’ בראשית (ד”ה
רבותינו ז”ל אמרו) בפירוש מארז”ל (ב”ר ספ”ב)
“במעשיהן של צדיקים חפץ ואינו חפץ במעשיהן
של רשעים”, ש”מעשיהן של רשעים” רומז על
עבודת ה’ בשנאה וכעס על עוברי רצונו ית’,
ואעפ”כ, “חפץ יותר במעשיהם של צדיקים שיקרבו
כל העולם כולו לעבוד את הבורא ע”י דברי נועם
. . ולא ע”י כעס . . כי דרכו ומדתו של השי”ת הוא טוב
וחפץ שהכל יקרבו אליו ע”י טוב . ושם פ
חוקת (ד”ה ודברתם אל הסלע): “יש בני בחינות
במוכיח . . אחד שמוכיח בדברים טובים, דהיינו,
שאומר לכל איש ישראל גודל מעלתו ומקום מקור
מחצב נשמתו . . וגודל הנחת רוח להבורא יתברך
ממצות כל איש ישראל . . ויש שמוכיח . . בדברים
קשים ובדברי ביושים . . והחילוק שביניהם, זה
שמוכיח . . בטוב מעלה את נשמת ישראל למעלה
מעלה ומספר תמיד בצדקת ובגדלות ישראל כמה
גדול כחם למעלה, וראוי הוא להיות מנהיג על
ישראל, וזה שמוכיח את ישראל בדברים קשים אינו
i would encourage everyone to learn the sicha of ויחי תנשא find it in ספר השיחות
but if you dont and have a weird way – היפך הכבוד היפך האמת – to look at hashem and jews, i guess torah – hashem – would consider you a tinok shenishba and youre mitzvos are still very precious in the eyes of hashemSeptember 5, 2023 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #2223219
To Menachem Shmei
1. The statement that no Jew is ever punished because every Jew has the din of a Tinok shenushba was told to me by several Chabad Rabbis.
2. On page 16 you stated that the Rebbe said he’s god clothed in human form. Is he the only person to reach that madregah. Sounds like a real Anav to say that about himself don’t you think?
3. Do you agree with cunin that the rebbe runs the world ie either as god or by telling god what to do?
4. Is the Rebbe alive or dead? Do I have to study Kabbalah seforim to get the answer?
5. You said that Avi Ezri changed Pshatim in Gemaras. Who was he and give me an example of a Pshat that he changed. In English please. Remember I’m ignorant.
To yankel berel
I assume you were complimenting me.September 5, 2023 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #2223222
By the gaon, they said that his neshoma literally belonged to tekufas harishonim
Nu nu. You need me to find something like this about the Alter Rebbe?
No problem, but does it make a difference?
Rav Yosef Kotkovsy (rov in Ukraine in the late 1800s) writes immense praises for the Shluchan Aruch Harav in the introduction to his sefer Darkei Hachayim, and then he writes:
“I have heard from someone trustworthy who saw a handwritten note by the Rav of Barditchov as follows: I can testify that if Rav Shneur Zalman of Liady [the Alter Rebbe] would have lived in the days of the Rif and the Rambam [rishonim…] he would have been like one of them… His golden language is literally [yes, “literally”] like the language of the Rif and Rambam.”
וכאשר שמעתי מפי מגידי אמת שראה כתיבת יד קודש של הרב הגאון האלקי מבארדיטשוב שכתבו וז”ל מעיד אני עלי שמים וארץ שאלו היו הרב הגאון אלקי ר’ שניאור זלמן מלאדי בימי הרי”ף והרמב”ם היו כאחד מהם . . לשונו הזהב הוא ממש כלשון הרי”ף והרמב”ם ז”ל.
And, talking about “neshamos”, and being that this week was Chai Elul, I guess I should bring the sicha of the Rebbe Rayatz from Chai Elul 5705 (Sefer Hasichos pg. 129) where he describes the events surrounding the birth of the Alter Rebbe:
On Chai Elul 5505 [the day the Alter Rebbe was born] the Baal Shem Tov was in a very joyous mood. After davening, he arranged a seuda for his students and said “Today a neshama chadasha [new soul] entered the world which will light up the world with nigleh and chassidus, and will have mesiras nefesh for the derech of chassidus, and succeed until bias hamoshiach.”
The Rebbe Rashab famously said: “Every neshama is sourced in the world of Atzilus, but the Alter Rebbe was a neshama d’Atzilus even as a נשמה בגוף בעולם הזה”September 5, 2023 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #2223231AviraDeArahParticipant
Menachem, I’m impressed with your ability to find sources for things. I still think there’s a difference between what one rav says 100 years after the baal hatanya, and what the consensus of gedolim were and are regarding the gaons treatment as a rishon in halacha. Do chabad yeshivos teach shu”a harav as a rishon? It’s fine with me if they do, but that’s not what the rest of the Torah world does in practice.
Someday, you can find sources for that sentiment in rabbi reuvein schmeltzers sefer on emunah(the English one), he has a whole section on how you can teach emunah to children through stories of gedolim, and spends a great deal of time on the gaon.
Re, the ramban and rambam, you’re referencing rav chaim volozhiner in the back of ruach chaim, where it says that some were saying that the gaon was on the same level as the rambam, and rav chaim said “definitely not the rambam, maybe like the rashba or the ramban.”September 5, 2023 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #2223236
On page 16 you stated that the Rebbe said he’s god clothed in human form. Is he the only person to reach that madregah. Sounds like a real Anav to say that about himself don’t you think?
This is one of the things that you guys are going to repeat again and again until you convince yourself that it makes sense.
The Rebbe never said this about himself. The Rebbe said this about his father-in-law, the Rebbe Rayatz.
The sicha, said a few months after the passing of the Rebbe Rayatz, is about getting brochos at the kever of the Rayatz after his passing.
Do you do this every time tzaddik talks about tzaddikim!?
“I can’t believe it! Reb Chaim Brisker is praising Talmidei Chachamim, this must mean that he’s praising himself. Such gaava!”
The fact that posters keep writing this ridiculous sevara again and again shows a true lack of logic in this discussion.September 6, 2023 12:52 am at 12:52 am #2223246
R Chaim was not habad . In non habad context , you are right .
In habad context – reality proves you wrong .
This a unique habad phenomenon .
It is a pattern , obvious to all non partisan people .
As mentioned in previous posts , you are biased and therefore cannot sit in judgement on your own ‘father’ in this regard [even though you spent countless hours learning his words]
You cannot fathom [the obvious] that he would manipulate his hasidim to apply those concepts to him , himself .
Ki Ha Shochad Ye’aver ……September 6, 2023 1:20 am at 1:20 am #2223264mdd1Participant
Sechel83, “Hashem” must be spelled with a capital H!
Secondly, so, according to Kedushas Ha’Leivi Yirmiyahu ha’Navi was no good (c”v!!)?September 6, 2023 7:13 am at 7:13 am #2223272
Menachem: “The Rebbe never said this about himself. The Rebbe said this about his father-in-law, the Rebbe Rayatz.”
I feel some sneaky backtracking here. He said it about the Rayatz and not about himself. So did he or did he not mean to imply it about himself? If yes, it’s as good as him saying it. And if not, who decided that he himself was Atzmus umehus melubash beguf? The chassidim? Can chassidim decide something so radical on their own without an explicit statement from the rebbe himself.
Wasn’t it R Yoel Kahn who said after 3 Tammuz that the mistake of the chassidim is that they decided the rebbe was Mashiach when he didn’t say so explicitly, even though it was the logical conclusion? I believe he said by way of illustration something along the lines that chassidim can’t come to the conclusion that 2 plus 2 equals 4 if the rebbe doesn’t say so.September 6, 2023 8:08 am at 8:08 am #2223273
mdd1: “so, according to Kedushas Ha’Leivi Yirmiyahu ha’Navi was no good (c”v!!)?”
The Kedusha Levi is discussing a mochiach, not a Navi who says what Hashem tells him to say.September 6, 2023 8:10 am at 8:10 am #2223302
REALLY TO ALL
I took Menachems advice and was not relying on mere ‘hearsay’ as it was quoted to me by the habad hasid in EY [who claimed that there is a part of the sicha which is NOT PRINTED and only for PNIMI , only for habad consumption] but checked it out in torat menachem itself ,and want to share with the readership here the bottom line of the sicha
1] The chazon ish missed out on learning tanya
2] Therefore Chazon ish , now in olam ha’elyon , is jealous of a simple student of the habad yeshiva
3] The chazon Ish is standing now , begging to be let in to hear this simple student learning tanya, but he is refused entry and has to stay outside
4] seemingly there is no hope for him – ever,
but 5] after Thchiyat hametim when mashiach [! – guess who THAT is …] will teach the pnimiyut of the torah , then EVEN the chazon ish will be permitted to enter to hear and learn from mashiach [! – again ,guess who THAT is ….].
6] that is how the passuk ‘ki lo yidach mimemu kol nidach’ [which customarily is invoked as teaching that even the greatest sinner will merit olam haba] will be fulfilled …..
I will leave an empty space here for the reader to fully digest what was said here .
And to fully digest what the desired and obvious results of these words are ….September 6, 2023 8:10 am at 8:10 am #2223303
Mind you , the above sicha about the chazon ish was said on Purim 1956 .
Merely Five years after he became the rebbi of the habad hasidim .
He was only fifty four years old at the time .September 6, 2023 9:18 am at 9:18 am #2223267SomedayParticipant
The Mishna Berurah consistently quotes rulings of the Shulchan Aruch Harav. He was gerechunt/considered from the Gedolei Ha’Achroinim. However, the M”B changed his name to the Shulchan Aruch HaGra”Z, not as he was known Harav.
I would ask the moderator to close this thread. We should be afraid, especially days before R”H of the horrible insults of a talmid chacham & a manhig in Klal Yisra’el. Delete those comments or the entire thread too. Thank youSeptember 6, 2023 9:20 am at 9:20 am #2223324
To Menachem Shmei
I want to add to the point that ARSo made today. In response to my assertion that the Rebbe couldn’t be an Anav since he called himself the Godol Hador, you said he was referring to the Rayatz. Nice try, but it doesn’t wash. We previously established that the Rebbe stated in a letter that every Nasi Chabad is also Nasi Hador for all Klal Yisroel. Therefore he was referring to himself as well as the Rayatz. I actually have a guess for the answer you’re going to provide.September 6, 2023 9:33 am at 9:33 am #2223326
To ARSo and mdd1
I don’t understand the reference to Yirmiyah please clarify.September 6, 2023 9:33 am at 9:33 am #2223327September 6, 2023 9:43 am at 9:43 am #2223345
yankelberel: “Mind you , the above sicha about the chazon ish was said on Purim 1956”
Ah! So it was a Purim Torah! Not a very funny one.September 6, 2023 9:58 am at 9:58 am #2223356
It’s amazing how even after I posted a link to the sicha, you’re not afraid of quoting a twisted version; skipping out the important parts which you know will make the whole thing sound different.
Let’s break up the way you quoted it:
  
These weren’t said by the Rebbe himself!!! The Rebbe said (paraphrasing, see link): “I received many angry letters from Eretz Yisroel complaining that Reb Foleh Kahan was farbrenging recently in Kfar Chabad, and he said about ploni ben ploni…” [then he quotes what he said about jealous etc.]
And the Rebbe continues (in a PURIM SPIRIT – as you can hear clearly in the recording (it’s a Purim farbrengen)): “We can answer their complaints with a Gemara in Bava Basra…”
Doesn’t say such a thing. But great way to make it sound worse.
Again, according to the Gemara in Bava Basra.
[Your whole “guess who that is” thing is ridiculous. Doing that every time the Rebbe mentions Moshiach is like illuminati conspiracy theorists who go crazy every time they see a triangle or an eye].
The Rebbe does NOT say that’s how it will be fulfilled. He uses the term in passing (the Rebbe’s manner of talk was always peppered with maamorei razal and pesukim. If you watch farbrengens or dollars you’ll know what I mean.)
Why did you skip that it wasn’t the Rebbe’s vort, rather he was saying what Reb Foleh said and that people complained about?
Why did you skip that all that the Rebbe added pretty much (again, in a Purim spirit) was explaining how this fits with a Gemara in Bava Basra?
I’m sure you’ll find some excuses to show why it’s still “a terrible statement” etc.
But the very fact that you chose to skip the main parts of the sicha shows how inconvenient they are for you.September 6, 2023 9:59 am at 9:59 am #2223361
In light of the side discussion mentioning the greatness of the Baal Hatanya and his Shulchan Aruch, someone once asked me a question for which I have no answer.
How is it that the sefer is called Shulchan Aruch, which was the name of a sefer accepted by klal Yisrael 200-300 years earlier. The question isn’t how he could write his own set of halachos and pasken differently, there is no problem with that. But why was it given the exact same name as the original Shulchan Aruch?September 6, 2023 10:02 am at 10:02 am #2223362
He said it about the Rayatz and not about himself. So did he or did he not mean to imply it about himself?
Oy, this is so simple. The fact that it’s about Lubavitch seems to be clouding your mind (as yankel says, shochad y’aver…)
Again, imagine if Reb Chaim proved from a Gemara that “Talmidei Chachamim go straight to Olam Habah.”
His talmidim will probably say, “Wow, our dear teacher, Reb Chaim, will go straight to Olam Habah!”
Here’s the question: Was Reb Chaim referring to himself in his statement?
If yes – that’s gaava!
If not – why did his students say that it was about himself?
I think the answer to this is simple common sense, and that applies also to your question about the Rebbe.
Wasn’t it R Yoel Kahn who said after 3 Tammuz that the mistake of the chassidim is that they decided the rebbe was Mashiach when he didn’t say so explicitly
No. He said that it’s the mistake of chassidim to OBSESS with the Rebbe being Moshiach since he didn’t say so explicitly and it can cause lots of damage.
Reb Yoel considered the Rebbe his Rebbe even though he never ever said “I’m the Rebbe.”
Why? Because a Rebbe doesn’t decide that he is Rebbe, chassidim decide to accept someone as their Rebbe.
This has been throughout history.
Teachers never taught their students how to look at them and how to respect them.
The students learned from the respect that the teachers had for THEIR teachers to learn how to relate to them.
Reb Elimelech never said “I am one with Hashem, connect with me!” He said: “Tzaddikim are one with Hashem.”
I’m sure that his talmidim inferred from there that Reb Elimelech is one with Hashem, and treated him with great respect. Does this mean that really he was referring to himself so this is gaava?
I feel like I’m explaining a concept to a five year old.September 6, 2023 10:05 am at 10:05 am #2223363
We previously established that the Rebbe stated in a letter that every Nasi Chabad is also Nasi Hador for all Klal Yisroel. Therefore he was referring to himself as well as the Rayatz.
The Rebbe never officially considered himself nossi Chabad. He always considered his father-in-law as such. Chassidim accepted the Rebbe as nossi. No great rabbi ever crowns himself as rabbi. He is crowned by his talmidim.
For more explanation, refer to my response to ARSo.
I actually have a guess for the answer you’re going to provide.
I hope that you indeed were able to guess the answer, since it is fairly simple.September 6, 2023 10:13 am at 10:13 am #2223370
The Rebbe took Purim seeiously. That’s when he “killed” Stalin. I guess in 1956 he decided take down the Chazon Ish. Yes he was already niftar. Lubavichwrs love to denigrate Gedolim. If their Rebbe did the same they had a role model to follow. DeSeptember 6, 2023 10:14 am at 10:14 am #2223376ujmParticipant
It is time to rename Yeshiva World to Lubavitch World.September 6, 2023 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm #2223380
yankelberel quoting the sicha about the Chazon Ish: “but 5] after Thchiyat hametim when mashiach [! – guess who THAT is …] will teach the pnimiyut of the torah”
Menachem, in reply: “
Again, according to the Gemara in Bava Basra”
Please tell me where pnimiyus haTorah is mentioned in Bava Basra… or elsewhere in Shas.
Menachem: “Why did you skip that it wasn’t the Rebbe’s vort, rather he was saying what Reb Foleh said and that people complained about?”
Are you trying to say that he wasn’t justifying what Folye Kahn said? If he wasn’t, why on earth was he addressing all the complaints?
“Why did you skip that all that the Rebbe added pretty much (again, in a Purim spirit) was explaining how this fits with a Gemara in Bava Basra?”
Disingenuous! Purim spirit! The Nassi Hador made a joke by justifying something denigrating someone else said about the Chazon Ish!
And again, where in Bava Basra?September 6, 2023 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #2223384
Menachem: “Again, imagine if Reb Chaim proved from a Gemara that “Talmidei Chachamim go straight to Olam Habah.
His talmidim will probably say, “Wow, our dear teacher, Reb Chaim, will go straight to Olam Habah!”
Here’s the question: Was Reb Chaim referring to himself in his statement?”
Better question: would they say that R Chaim was implying that he himself is a talmid chochom and will therefore go straight to Olam Haba? Simple answer: no! And the same is true with whatever imaginary conclusion you claim the chassidim of R Elimelech would come up with. They wouldn’t say that he MEANT himself even by implication.
Yet you yourself, and apparently all of Lubavich, claim that your rebbe WAS implying that he himself is the (non-existent) Nassi Hador, that he will be Mashiach, and that he is a Navi.
Sneaky and disingenuous once again. As I wrote in the past, you can’t have it both ways.
“I feel like I’m explaining a concept to a five year old.”
Yep, someone who understands pshuto shel Mikra and sees problems where they appear. This five year-old is not satisfied with your answers.September 6, 2023 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #2223386
The Rebbe took Purim seeiously. That’s when he “killed” Stalin. I guess in 1956 he decided to…
I am mocheh for the kavod of the Chazon Ish.September 6, 2023 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #2223442n0mesorahParticipant
My last post to this thread:
I found a clear Nevuah! This conversation was predicted centuries ago.
וְחָכְמַת סוֹפְרִים תִּסְרַח, וְיִרְאֵי חֵטְא יִמָּאֲסוּ, וְהָאֱמֶת תְּהֵא נֶעְדֶּרֶת. נְעָרִים פְּנֵי זְקֵנִים יַלְבִּינוּ, זְקֵנִים יַעַמְדוּ מִפְּנֵי קְטַנִּים.
What does the word אֱמֶת in connection to a statement, generally mean in the Mishna?
One should care about what things mean and what is correct. Not which side said them, or what was he thinking when he said it.September 6, 2023 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #2223430
It is getting too tiring to edit all your posts, and deleting most of them hasn’t seemed to have any effect on the subsequent ones. Either keep your comments directed to the content, or none will be posted. And on the chance anyone is assuming this isn’t a problem with the ‘other team’ in this color war, the hate speech there is a dime a dozen.
- The topic ‘Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher’ is closed to new replies.