March 14, 2013 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #938592sharpMember
mothepro: “I do not think there is a problem with something new specifically.”
You don’t, others do. Sorry about that.
“And even when it happens in items that are not bad inherently, they are indicative of a nature of a people, that when a new thing hits, everyone gets excited.”
True, but I think it’s a separate issue. The way I see it, these are two different problems. I’m not from the Rabbonim, so I don’t know the reasoning, I’m sure that there are some very valid reasons. I was just looking at it differently. I was trying to say that it’s not necessarily the fact that it’s sushi, it might just be the fact that it’s new(-ish)March 14, 2013 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #938593sharpMember
And by the way, I’m a bit uncomfortable with the word ‘crusade’ in the title. I think it’s a bit extreme, to say the least.March 14, 2013 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #938594Veltz MeshugenerMember
Old Man, that was a wonderful comment. I agree with you completely.March 14, 2013 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #938595
Dear OP. If your assertion is true, and it really bothers you, contact the Rabbonim who gave said shiurim and ask them about it. Please report back their reply.March 14, 2013 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #938596I can only tryMember
The ingredients I listed above (and more) are all a food on their own, discrete portions of the sushi, and retain their form.March 14, 2013 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #938597verapoi yerapeiParticipant
apushatayid: I asked one of the people who gave the shiur and he shrugged his shoulders and said “its not a yiddishe maichal”.March 14, 2013 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #938598kingdavidParticipant
Just in case you don’t know the history of sushi… In 1966, a man named Noritoshi Kanai and his Jewish business partner, Harry Wolff, opened Kawafuku Restaurant in Little Tokyo. Kawafuku was the first to offer traditional sushi to Americans.
Some people say that gefilte fish is the Jewish sushi, or Japanese sushi is just a version of gefilte fish.March 15, 2013 5:29 am at 5:29 am #938599Josh31Participant
“Thee is an inyan brought in seforim that some Yidden are on the level to be concerned with.”
We should not look down upon pious practices by individuals (unless done for purposes of fraud or where they harm others).
However, pious practices should never be misrepresented as basic Halacha.
There are some cases that are “beyond the letter of the law” but not really pious practices but really “being a Mentch”.
Enjoy the sushi.March 15, 2013 7:54 am at 7:54 am #938600RABBAIMParticipant
Verapoi- I asked over 10 people and not one associated herring with a specific non Jewish nation. But each one named Pizza as Italian.
Get the difference? try it yourself!March 15, 2013 7:57 am at 7:57 am #938601RABBAIMParticipant
MDD wrote RABBAIM, one does not make machos about a midas chassidus. Anyhow, I have to double-check “Orchos Tzadikim” to see if he really says what you claim he says.
1- What is machos?
2- Did you find your Orchos Tzadikim in the first perek yet? I did not make it up.March 15, 2013 10:46 am at 10:46 am #938602just my hapenceParticipant
RABBAIM – “Verapoi- I asked over 10 people and not one associated herring with a specific non Jewish nation. But each one named Pizza as Italian.
Get the difference? try it yourself!”
That’s because you never asked any Europeans. Here herring is very distinctly associated with Holland and Scandinavia. Besides, 10 people is not really a statistically signifying sample.March 15, 2013 11:37 am at 11:37 am #938603
Verapoi- I asked over 10 people and not one associated herring with a specific non Jewish nation. But each one named Pizza as Italian.
Get the difference? try it yourself!
Most food in the US and especially NY comes from the millions of immigrants that came to the US. There were large Italian (Really Naples and Scicily) , Irish, Asian and Jewish immigrants to NY and they brought their foods and cooking with them.
Many of these immigrants opened restaurants and other food places with their foods. So we are familiar with Italian, Asian and Jewish (Not Hemish stuff like Bagels and Pastrami). Those foods becames the staples of the NY diet
However there are many places that did not have large immigrants to the US and NY like the Dutch (Although NYC was founded by the Dutch very little remains except some place names like Staten Island) and certainly the cooking did not.
So its very obvious that most people know Italian, Asian and jewish cooking but might not know cooking from other places Like the NetherlandsMarch 15, 2013 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #938604just my hapenceParticipant
Previous post should read “statistically significant”March 15, 2013 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #938605
“I asked one of the people who gave the shiur and he shrugged his shoulders and said “its not a yiddishe maichal”
This is what you wrote in the OP. Now, please go back and ask said anonymous Rabbonim what they mean by “not a yiddishe maichel”. Do they mean these are foods that didnt originate with yidden (in which case, pizza, hot dogs, tuna fish and cream cheese would fall into the same category, so why pick on sushi) or do they mean these are foods not associated with yidden (which is probably true of (80% of all items found in a heimishe supermarket again, why pick on sushi) or do they mean this is food yidden should not eat, in which case, we are asking you to ask said anonymous rabbonim why they believe this is the case. Of course there is the possibility that none of my suggested interpretations are correct, in which case, please ask them to clarify what they mean.March 15, 2013 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #938606verapoi yerapeiParticipant
apushtayid: he meant that since it is a food which isn’t asoiciated with yidden. I am not saying that they all said not to eat it but when they were talking about the braocha they felt compelled to give an intro that implied it is really a food we shouldn’t be eating for hashkafa reasonsMarch 15, 2013 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #938608PBTMember
Maybe these rabbonim think there’s something fishy about sushi. 🙂
Actually I do like sushi a lot. I usually make a “mezonos” on the rice and a “shehakol” on the fish. Although I think the better thing to do would be to say mezonos on a cracker and a shehakol on a piece of herring or gefilte fish, intending for those brochos to apply to the sushi as well.March 15, 2013 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #938609
apushtayid: he meant that since it is a food which isn’t asoiciated with yidden. I am not saying that they all said not to eat it but when they were talking about the braocha they felt compelled to give an intro that implied it is really a food we shouldn’t be eating for hashkafa reasons
Id love to ask them should we be eating “Arab” food for hashkafa reasons?March 15, 2013 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #938610I can only tryMember
Interesting point re: stuffed cabbage.
moderator–March 15, 2013 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #938611notwhouthinkiamMember
if its taam shabbos then its muttar nut if its machal beheima then assur gamur! ver est mit di hent uder mit tzveu klayne shteckens!! avade its assur GAMMURRRRRR!!!!!!!March 15, 2013 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #938612
“it is really a food we shouldn’t be eating for hashkafa reasons”
So nuuu, what are you waiting for, go ask these Rabbonim to clarify what potential hashkafic reasons are at play to stay away from eating sushi. Borscht is not a yiddishe food either. In america it is associated with jews because jewish immigrants from russia brought it over with them and the carnegie deli made it popular. So, does that mean in america there are no hashkafic reasons to stay away from borscht but in say, spain it would be problematic? We need clarification from these anonymous rabbonim.March 15, 2013 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #938613
What is the difference between a Kreplach and a Raviloi or a Wonton?March 16, 2013 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #938614eXISTENTIALFISHMember
Kreplach are eaten on Yom Kippur or Purim, Wontons are eaten in your eggdrop soup at Yossi Peking, and ravioli is eaten when you are on a trip to Yerushalayim to see your son, and you take him and 3 of his friends to eat dinner at an over priced milchig restaurant in town. How do you not know this simple stuff?March 17, 2013 6:33 am at 6:33 am #938615rebdonielMember
Borsalinos are Italian haberdashery. Ravioli is an Italian food. Since the heilige levush of a Borsalino is Italian and mamesh shtark, ravioli must be a shtark food item to eat when you’re milchige. (as I dip my thumbs)March 18, 2013 1:49 am at 1:49 am #938616147Participant
Rabonim Crusade Against Sushi
There is only 1 crusade I can see against Sushi:- That it cannot be utilized for Eruv Tavshilin, as it is not a cooked food, despite it being very Choshuv in this day & age to serve at a Shabbos meal, especially in a capacity as entree.
No doubt 200 years ago, no-one would have donned a business suit for Shabbos & Yom Tov, and today it is the most commonly worn Shabbos attire. Likewise Sushi has come to be accepted as very respected food.March 18, 2013 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #938617yichusdikParticipant
Not a yiddishe maichel – I guess cholopches are out, since they are ukranian. And blintzes, since the Russinas were making blini before we got there. The Scots were making kishke before we were exiled from Eretz Yisroel.
In fact, most of what is considered Jewish food by non sefardim is simply a reinvention of local east european dishes with all the treif elements removed.
One exception is cholent, which is likely derived from sefardi and mizrachi chamim, but which is common to other cultures as well.
The obvious question is, how come the same authorities who claim sushi is not a yiddishe maichel aren’t insisting on reintroducing dishes that Jews in Spain (where most European Jews ultimately came from, on their way through West, Central, and Eastern Europe)
would have eaten, and which their descendants from Italy, Greece, Morroco and Turkey still eat. This cuisine was as much if not more Jewish – because like all Mediterranean cuisines including that of eretz yisroel, it shared certain complex carbs, more fresh vegetables, more fish, and less heavy proteins than Eastern European food.
This is not to say I am an advocate of one way or the other, but the obvious and inherent contradiction begs the question.March 18, 2013 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #938618
“Kreplach are eaten on Yom Kippur”
You really need to proofread before hitting send.March 19, 2013 4:23 am at 4:23 am #938619ShalomToYouMember
I read thru the posts and only 1 person came close to explaining the problem. Sushi is a craze, not a normal food. Its raw and disgusting and decent people stay away from it but like all Aveiros the Yetzer Hara makes it look appealing.
That’s why its eaten with chopsticks; for the ‘experience’ not the taste.
The Jews were redeemed from Egypt because they did not change their unique names, tongue, and clothing. We have unique foods as well. See Shulchan Aruch Hilchos Shabbos about ‘Pashtida’ which is a type of Kugel and the commentaries on its significance.
To summarize: Sushi isn’t just a food, it’s a way of feeling Goyish.
P.S.maybe if we Yidden would stop idolizing the Japanese culture we wouldn’t have had problems in Japan with the 3 bochurimMarch 19, 2013 4:51 am at 4:51 am #938620Torah613TorahParticipant
ShalomToYou: I’m not Popa, who is the expert, but I think you have a nearly perfect troll post!
Tone of Holier than Thou – check
Really provocative – check
Off-topic random and incorrect connection to chopsticks – check
Logic-less connection of non-crime with punishment – check
Large groups of people insulted- checkMarch 19, 2013 4:52 am at 4:52 am #938621charliehallParticipant
“maybe if we Yidden would stop idolizing the Japanese culture we wouldn’t have had problems in Japan with the 3 bochurim”
The Japanese did not turn over Jews to the Nazis. And the Bocherim got caught red-handed smuggling drugs; had it been Singapore they would have received death sentences. They actually got off easily.
” The Jews were redeemed from Egypt because they did not change their unique names, tongue, and clothing. “
However, we did eat similar foods. As Jews have in every country in which we have been exiled. I have a Jewish-Indian cookbook on my shelf. And that is how we got all this Eastern European stuff that people call “heimish”.March 19, 2013 4:54 am at 4:54 am #938622charliehallParticipant
“it cannot be utilized for Eruv Tavshilin, as it is not a cooked food”
The rice is cooked. CYLOR.March 19, 2013 8:37 am at 8:37 am #938623rebdonielMember
There is no uniquely Jewish cuisine.
Granted, the slow cooking sabbath stew is a uniquely Jewish dish, due to a) the issur against cooking on shabbat, but also b) the desire to eat something that cooks slowly over shabbat to show our contempt towards Sadduceeism/Karaism (the famous Baal haMaor indicates this).
Ashkenazim have chulent; Mizrahim and Sepharadim have varying varieties of dafina, hamin, stracotto (Italkim), tebit (Iraqi), and other such dishes.
Boneless fish also is a Jewish thing to eat on Shabbat, due to borrer (gefilte, Spanish/Portuguese Jews in London with fried fish and chips eaten cold, Moroccans ate sweet and sour fish tagine, etc.)
But Jewish eating has largely taken on the character of the societies in which Jews live, while adapting to shabbat and kashrut parameters.
And there is nothing wrong with exploring ways to enjoy a variety of foods, as Ii frequently discuss here,March 19, 2013 10:42 am at 10:42 am #938624on the ballParticipant
Coke is also not a ‘Yiddishe Mychal’.
What a load of baloney.March 19, 2013 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #938625lesschumrasParticipant
What this thread highlights is the gaiva of Eastern European Jews. They define their food and music as authentic Jewish, when it is only Eastern European. Years ago a friend married an Italian Jew. The first Shabbos his parents (who were Polish ) came for dinner she made a meat lasagne. They claimed it wasn’t Jewish. She replied that in Italy it was a traditional Shabbos meal.March 19, 2013 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #938626Torah613TorahParticipant
It’s a troll people. You shouldn’t respond to it.March 19, 2013 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #938627
“Its raw and disgusting”
I agree, herring is horrible. I wouldnt feed it to a dog.March 19, 2013 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #938628
Sometimes the difference between Torah is Purim Torah is losMarch 19, 2013 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #938629🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
I guess noone here heard of fried rolls. Or avacado rolls.March 19, 2013 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #938630
Kaiser rolls? Tootsie rolls?
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