March 29, 2015 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #615381
There is this famous story about Rav Moshe tz”l inducing vomiting when he accidentally drank Chalav Stam. I would like to see if anybody has a source for this story. Some people say this story is false.March 29, 2015 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #1149199
And some say that Rav Moshe tz”l did not do things like that.March 29, 2015 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1149200
I heard from R” Nota Greenblatt that in Memphis R’ Moshe drank cholov stam “and at least in the next 6 hours or so didnt throw up, ich veis nisht vos hut geshen nuch dem”March 29, 2015 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #1149201
I heard third hand that it happened.
And now you heard it fourth hand from an anonymous source on the internet.March 29, 2015 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1149202ChortkovParticipant
Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.
–Abraham LincolnMarch 29, 2015 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #1149203
I want to see if anybody has a source for it.March 29, 2015 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #1149204
I do, but it’s not a written source.March 29, 2015 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #1149205popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I was there, and it wasn’t just any cholov stam. It was actually a famous cholov yisroel brand that insiders know is a sham. Witnesses I know have seen them slipping in milk from noncholov yisroel cows.March 29, 2015 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #1149206JosephParticipant
What kind of “source” are you looking for? Something in the Igros Moshe recounting the maaisa?March 29, 2015 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1149207
Anybody close with Rav Dovid Feinstein shlit”a?March 29, 2015 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #1149208
Like a known talmud of his or close family member.March 29, 2015 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1149209
How about someone who witnessed it?March 29, 2015 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #1149210mik5Participant
This story is true.
Do a Google search or, better yet, ask Rav Belsky shlit”a.March 29, 2015 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #1149211
My family is. Ive asked him before he said he doubted it was true.March 29, 2015 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #1149212
I would like to know details, when it happened and where.March 29, 2015 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #1149213
It was about 5-6 years ago on Purim, in his apartmentMarch 29, 2015 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1149214golferParticipant
Only in the coffeeroom can you find a Yekke who makes jokes that can actually make a person laugh.March 29, 2015 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #1149215screwdriverdelightParticipant
start with the obvious.
(A) There’s no reason to vomit after drinking cholov stam. (B) R’ Moshe Feinstein was renowned for his genius and didn’t do stupid things. (A+B=C) R’ Moshe didn’t vomit after drinking cholov stam milk.March 29, 2015 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #1149216JosephParticipant
Who said the vomiting was voluntary? The idea that he mistakenly consumed non-CY may have been revolting to him.March 29, 2015 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #1149217Sam2Participant
If true, the story says a heck of a lot more about Chalav HaCompanies being muttar than Assur.March 29, 2015 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #1149218ToiParticipant
i have a hard time believing he threw it up. R moshe himself writes in a teshuva that whiskey blenders could be problematic so he refrains from drinking whiskey with a blender inside when not in public. cholov stam is lichoirah less problematic.March 29, 2015 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #1149219
I also find it pretty hard to believe Rav Moshe tz”l actually induced the vomiting. But it could be as Joseph said that it was so revolting he just threw up.
The people here who claim the story is true, can you please say where it happened and when?March 29, 2015 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #1149220screwdriverdelightParticipant
No the story is that he induced vomiting–it could be that the milk was curdled and then his doctor told him curdled milk isn’t healthy so he made himself regurgitate.March 29, 2015 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #1149221
Sam, I’m not sure why, but anyhow, we don’t need a story to say it’s muttar; we have his teshuvos.
Toi, your “lichoira” is lichoira wrong. He writes that he drank blended whiskey in public, but didn’t say that about c”s.March 29, 2015 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1149222
Sam2-Do you mind explaining yourself?March 30, 2015 12:04 am at 12:04 am #1149223hockonarockMember
stop paskening based on gedolim stories, the notion that you can do that is utterly ridiculousMarch 30, 2015 12:11 am at 12:11 am #1149224
Hockonarock, you spelled udderly wrong.March 30, 2015 1:32 am at 1:32 am #1149225
I would like to know details, when it happened and where.
It was about 5-6 years ago on Purim, in his apartment
🙂March 30, 2015 1:33 am at 1:33 am #1149226
If true, the story says a heck of a lot more about Chalav HaCompanies being muttar than Assur.
Sam2-Do you mind explaining yourself?
Second the motion.March 30, 2015 1:43 am at 1:43 am #1149228
R’ Moshe himself writes in a teshuva that whiskey blenders could be problematic so he refrains from drinking whiskey with a blender inside when not in public. cholov stam is lichoirah less problematic.
Toi, your “lichoira” is lichoira wrong. He writes that he drank
blended whiskey in public, but didn’t say that about c”s.
Why should he have to, DaasYochid? He wrote to be mattir it,
not that he thought it might be a problem.March 30, 2015 1:45 am at 1:45 am #1149229
DaasYochid, why would he write that about cholov stam?March 30, 2015 2:07 am at 2:07 am #1149231Bookworm120Participant
Ditto, yekke2.March 30, 2015 2:11 am at 2:11 am #1149232
What, that he kept it? Because he was encouraging people to keep it if they could.March 30, 2015 2:27 am at 2:27 am #1149233showjoeParticipant
“start with the obvious.
(A) There’s no reason to vomit after drinking cholov stam. (B) R’ Moshe Feinstein was renowned for his genius and didn’t do stupid things. (A+B=C) R’ Moshe didn’t vomit after drinking cholov stam milk. “
just saying that there is a spiritual effect that eating not kosher has on a person. im not saying that C”S is non-kosher, just that it might be comparable to one whos does not eat C”S.
i cant remember the source for my original statement, so i understand if you don’t hold by it, but it definitely came from a vaild source.March 30, 2015 2:36 am at 2:36 am #1149234
If I may be so bold as to say ??? in Sam2…
???? ?????? ?????
It is inconceivable that ???”? would allow ????”? ??”? to eat something which is not absolutely ???.
??? ?????.March 30, 2015 2:53 am at 2:53 am #1149235
Catch yourself, what’s the chiddush if he drank it by mistake? He held it was muttar. Unless when you say “absolutely ???” you mean with no reason whatsoever to be machmir, but that’s k’neged what he wrote in a number of teshuvos.March 30, 2015 3:05 am at 3:05 am #1149236
Catch Yourself (al pi Sam2),
in that case, I suppose that goes for the whiskey as well?March 30, 2015 3:54 am at 3:54 am #1149237i hate loshon horaParticipant
actually they say a story that rav Moshe was somewhere and he picked up a bottle of milk and put it down so someone asked him why he didnt drink it and he said that the bottle was empty!March 30, 2015 3:58 am at 3:58 am #1149238
@ DY – No chiddushim, just explaining Sam2 (??? ????? ?????). I think Sam2 was not proving that ?? ??? held it is muttar; this hardly needs to be proven. My takeaway from his post was that this story, like so many others, is used by many people to prove a point, when in fact the story undermines that very point.
@ Comlink-X – Yes, I suppose it would. Any ???? ??????.March 30, 2015 4:01 am at 4:01 am #1149239
Could I have heard that story about orange juice rather than milk?March 30, 2015 4:02 am at 4:02 am #1149240i hate loshon horaParticipant
maybe catch yourself before talking like that about one of the greatest gidolim!March 30, 2015 4:07 am at 4:07 am #1149241
@IHLH – no doubt (and so it is said) an ugly rumor started that Rav Moshe does not hold of company X…completely ignoring that he picked up the bottle in the first place!
In a similar vein, I heard from Rav Aharon Felder zt”l, arguably Rav Moshe’s closest talmid (perhaps after Rav Bluth), who was present when this occurred:
Rav Moshe was known to be super makpid about his matzos. At a bris once on chol hamoed Pesach, the young Rav Reuven approached his father during the seudas mitzvah and said quietly (in Yiddish, of course), “these are not our matzos,” to which Rav Moshe replied, “if I don’t eat, people will say that it’s chometz!”March 30, 2015 5:13 am at 5:13 am #1149242
My takeaway from his post was that this story, like so many others, is used by many people to prove a point, when in fact the story undermines that very point.
What point do you think people try to make from the story and how does the story actually undermine this point?March 30, 2015 5:25 am at 5:25 am #1149243
DY – The people who have told me this story have always used it to show that Rav Moshe “really held” that chalav stam is assur. The story refutes this because if that were true, it would have been impossible for him to drink it even by mistake because ??? ???”? ???? ???? ???.
That said, I think the real moral of the story (if it is true) is about the incredible sensitivity he had to something which he held should not be consumed by a baal nefesh, as per Joseph (Lior), et al.
IHLH – I’m not sure what you thought I meant. Chas V’Shalom, I did not intend anything other than the greatest respect for Rav Moshe. Let me be clear. My point was that since Rav Moshe is obviously included in “??????”, it is inconceivable that he would have consumed something that was not kosher according to his own opinion.March 30, 2015 5:58 am at 5:58 am #1149244
If you want to refute people who think Rav Moshe held it was assur, just show them the teshuvos. They’re a much better raya than a diyuk from a story.March 30, 2015 6:03 am at 6:03 am #1149245Sam2Participant
Hashta Behemtan…March 30, 2015 6:08 am at 6:08 am #1149246
Someone asked R’ Dovid shlit”a how could he asser NYC water – his father drank it! He answered, “If he knew there were bugs in it, he wouldn’t have drunk it”.March 30, 2015 6:08 am at 6:08 am #1149247
Sam2 – ???? ???????
DY – Agreed. The only reason to discuss the story is the irony.March 30, 2015 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1149248
So far nobody has given me a source for this story. (Someone mentioned Rav Belsky shlit”a but please tell me when it happened and where.
Only in the coffeeroom can you find a Yekke who makes jokes that can actually make a person laugh.
There are a lot of Yekkes with a good sense of humor.March 30, 2015 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #1149249mondaymorningcholentParticipant
Rav Moshe’s grandson told me the story never happened and is not true.
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