October 20, 2009 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #664521
artchill – How about declaring a Day of Honor for me too.October 20, 2009 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #664522
AZ, contrary to cholentkugelkishka’s assertion I was in no way trying to embarrass you. I am blown away with your dogged determination to fight for what you feel is right. While I will never agree with your viewpoint or reccomendations, you are putting up a good fight nonetheless. You deserve a giant cup of decaf coffee, so you can chill out and try to see other people’s viewpoint.October 20, 2009 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #664523
cherrybim: I’m glad you think the situation is hyterical. Try speaking to families with older single daughters.
Call me a dreamer, that’s fine. Since when is it assur to attempt to help fellow members of klal yiroel – even if there are those that think you will not be successful. I am not asking for your time money effort – but please don’t belittle those who care. For the record 70 roshei yeshiva signed a letter encouarging more close in age shidduchim. I don’t think it’s kavod to refer to their intent as a fantasy. Surely their judgment is at least as good as yours.
Naysayers are a time a dozen..October 20, 2009 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #664524
A viewpoint that is aligned with what 70 Roshei Yeshiva would like to see happen. Why would I drop the ball based on some anonymous bloggers. The day the roshei yeshiva recommend stopping the push to close the age gap -is the day I will.October 20, 2009 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #664525JosephParticipant
You’ve taken your crusade far beyond anything the Roshei Yeshivos have publicly endorsed. You belittle any shidduch crisis causes other than the age gap. You call for Yeshiva bochorim to end their Limud Torah in Eretz Hakodesh early. These, and other enumerated stances of yours, have NOTHING to do with the Roshei Yeshivos.October 20, 2009 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #664526
I’m 100% serious.October 20, 2009 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #664527
artchill – I certainly hope you weren’t. In my opinion – what AZ is doing is only attempting to help. He has written that B”H he’s married & his kids are far from shidduchim. So, by promoting NASI’s message which has the haskomah of 70 Roshei Yeshiva & encouraging people to pay a shadchan for their service – he’s just trying to do his part. He is fighting the fight of others – the hundreds of singles – and HKB”H should give him continued koach to do so!October 20, 2009 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #664528
AZ, it’s people like you who give much needed Chizuk to the thousands of 23+ year old single girls, who many Shadchanim have already put on the back shelf for storage. You give the Shadchanim the extra push to try again. Often just one/few more try/tries does it. Their future Doros thank you.October 20, 2009 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #664529aaryd621Participant
there is no such thing as “the shidduch crisis” it says in the gemorah in sotah that hashem decides who will be married to who 40 days before they are born. hashem takes care of everything there is no “crisis!!!!”October 20, 2009 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #664530mybatMember
aaryd; that was before the age gap……….. 🙂October 20, 2009 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #664531
aaryd621 – Right on. If you want to get married, just do it!October 21, 2009 12:21 am at 12:21 am #664532ronrsrMember
marry in haste, repent at leisure.October 21, 2009 12:45 am at 12:45 am #664533
I have never claimed that all the ideas/suggestions were signed on by the 70 Roshei Yeshiva. Clearly not every idea can be presented to such a large body for endorsement. The 70 Roshei Yeshiva signed on to the the general idea of what the problem is and what needs to be done. Rav Shteinma wrote “May Hashem strengthen you to find all sorts of ????”
How to achieve the goal is a very good question. There are very well respected Roshei Yeshiva who are advising the people who are investing their energies to come up with effective suggestions. I will let them know that you would like to be added to their think tank. They appreciate any and all feedback/help.October 21, 2009 12:56 am at 12:56 am #664534
aaryd621: Seems like you know better that a lot of very chosheve people (perhaps the roshei yeshiva just all forgot that gemara). hmm
For the record (not that your comment even deserves a response)
It also says who will be rich who will be poor
Close down all tzedaka organizations – hashem takes of everything there are no needy
it also says who will be a talmid chachom and who will not
close down all educational instittuations – hashem takes care of everything
it also says when a person will die
close down hatzala and all medical services – hashem takes care of everything
Frankly the response when someone else is in a difficult situation should be what can I do to help. NOT why bother helping – hashem takes care of everything.
I Wonder after 120 when we are asked why we didn’t do anything-how’s this for an answer
ME?? G-D you take care of everything, I was waiting for you to solve the problem.
As the Chief Rabbi of England Zatzal said “The question is not where was G-D – The question is where were WEOctober 21, 2009 4:22 am at 4:22 am #664535
finally i get a comment from AZ! i’ve been waiting for one of those for a long time! i guess i can now give up on that thank you post from AZ welcoming him back to the CR!
i’m with Joseph on what he said, it’s not all the age gap…!October 21, 2009 5:45 am at 5:45 am #664536ronrsrMember
Pray as if everything depended on Hashem; act as if everything depended on you.October 21, 2009 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #664537
Jax, “i’m with Joseph on what he said, it’s not all the age gap…! “:
Say someone suffers from various maladies, one with a cure, others unknown. Do we not treat the one with a cure, in a manner that prominent doctors are in agreement on?October 21, 2009 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #664538Dr. PepperParticipant
In response to your reply to my post on the previous page-
Numbers are numbers and are facts, not opinions. (It is the way they are represented that is an opinion.) I always agreed with you on that.
What I always disagreed with you on (and still do) is the approach to solving this issue. (I do however respect you for taking ownership of this issue and sympathizing with everyone who is affected.)
In my opinion they best way to approach the problem would be for one competent person to take charge of the whole problem. Under that person would be people who would represent the different groups (the eligible men, the eligible women, the parents, the shadchanim and any other potential groups I may be leaving out). There groups will obviously be very large so they can be further split by region or in some other fashion.
The leaders of each group (or sub-group) should reach out to the members they represent and try to get their understanding of what aspects they feel are causing the gap. They should also ask them to think of ideas, no matter how ridiculous they may sound, to close the gap. Each leader should take all ideas and thoughts and discuss them with other leaders before submitting them to the person on top of them who will in turn submit it to the person in charge.
There are many different causes contributing to this “crisis” and the only way to solve it is to hear from EVERYONE.October 21, 2009 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #664539
AZ – Where is the list of 70?October 21, 2009 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #664540
Many of those so called Kol Kories have turned out to be either fabricated, or signed signatures with no verifications.
Use your own judgement and it’s time to move on from this very pressing “Crisis”. Those who are convinced are convinced, and those that aren’t, AZ and 70 signatures won’t help. It’s time to MOVE ON.October 21, 2009 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #664541
WHEREAS, all discussions and possible angles to the “Crisis” have been brouoght to light in the Coffee Room.
WHEREAS, every reader is convinced of their own perspective.
BE IT DECLARED on this 21st day of October 2009 THAT the YOU can Resolve the Shidduch Crisis thread a moot point and a DISMISSED topic.
CASE CLOSED!!!October 21, 2009 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #664542
artchill, ” It’s time to MOVE ON”?
I’m not sure whether you’re male or female, but inquiry to the other side of the Maechitzas will result in awareness of way too many older single girls, with numbers growing steadily. If you were their mother/father would you want the Klal to MOVE ON?October 21, 2009 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #664543
So be it.October 21, 2009 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #664544tzippiMember
To cherrybim: the letter was a two page spread in both Yated and Hamodia, I think the yom tov edition. Too many names for most of them not to be legit, IMO. However, read it carefully.October 21, 2009 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #664546
There is no exemption clause for Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva in this Kol Koreh
The signers need to lead the community into the new era of shadchanus by having their sons marry older girls. What a way to show the community the seriousness of the issue!October 21, 2009 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #664547
The people involved with the NASI project would love to have talented capable people join their team. They would definatley welcome you input and assistance. At present it consists of a very small handful of unbelievably dedicated people under direct leadership of leading Roshei Yesiva. Your help would be invaluable. Contact them!
It is posted on the yw website – september 24th 2009October 22, 2009 1:06 am at 1:06 am #664549
artchill: how would one celebrate this day in history?! do we get a cake for AZ?!October 22, 2009 1:19 am at 1:19 am #664550
Jax: “artchill: how would one celebrate this day in history?!”
How about commiting to spending an equal amount of time in the CR and redding Shidduchim?October 22, 2009 1:30 am at 1:30 am #664551
AZOI.IS: well i already spend a nice chunk of my time in the CR….so i’m half there!October 22, 2009 4:32 am at 4:32 am #664552
Jax, I’m proud to say, I spend way more time on Shidduchim, B”H.October 22, 2009 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #664553
I am greatly honored (not) by all the acknowledgments. Could we please stay to the thread??October 27, 2009 2:36 am at 2:36 am #664554aaryd621Participant
Az your point is very foolish. hashem does decide who will be rich or poor, and it says that whoever is poor in this world is rich in the next. hashem placed rich people in the world so that the rich should support the poor. people are poor so that the rich should be able to get schar by helping them. hashem also makes people sick so that they can get a a caparah or to remind them that they need to daven more. we shouldn’t close hatzala because it is halachacly permitted to save a live in life threatening conditions. hashem also decides who will marry who and there is no crisis!!!!October 27, 2009 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #664555
aaryd621 – Hashem also decides who will marry who and there is no crisis!!!! Of course, Hashem runs the world & we have to have bitachon, but what AZ (and the 70 R”Y who signed a kol koraiy) is doing is trying to get the shadchonim to make shidduchim between couples close in age, when possible. You can call it whatever you want – but there are hundreds of girls without dates, and if closing the age gap can help them – why are you opposed to that??October 27, 2009 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #664556
cholentkugelkishke – The matches are there. The couples need to meet and marry; that is, if they are indeed interested in marriage and not just going through the motions.October 27, 2009 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #664557
cherrybim – it’s more complex than that. The system that we have in place isn’t working, and needs change – as 70 R”Y feel.October 27, 2009 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #664558
aaryd621: Please realize these are not MY points, just points that I have spent time bringing to the CR attention. 70 R”Y seem to feel they are valid and legit, and frankly they are self evident.
Without going around in circles I’m curios whether you think the points are “foolish” from a haskafic standpoint, or because you don’t believe that the there are far more girls in the dating pool?
cherrybim: they boys are meeting (girls), and marrying (girls), and yet many many girls remain single. Far more than the boys. Please explain that phenomena…October 27, 2009 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #664559
We notice and are concerned about the girls so we think that there are more single girls than boys but the ratio is roughly 50-50; so for every married male there is a married female.
You can also look into the Mortality Rates and other sociological factors for answers.October 27, 2009 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #664560rescue37Participant
unmarried boys don’t stand out as much as unmarried girls. Also, the boys will more easily pick upi and move to an out of town community where they are off the radar screen. Once they leave yeashiva they are no longer considered a “good” boy so they are summarily dismissed by the girls. For every “good” girl that comes back from seminary (aren’t they all “good”) there is not one good boy per girl. By the time the girl is willing to lower her standards, the guy is already taken by a girl who was more realistic in the first place, so the “good” girls can’t find anyone to what they wantOctober 27, 2009 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #664561
cherrybim in order for the ration to remain 55-50, the boys have to marry girls their age. If they begin dating at 23, and the girls start at 18 – it’s no longer 50-50.October 27, 2009 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #664562
Trust me the poeple who are spending their time on the issue have looked at the mortality rates and other sociological factor. What is clearly the number one issue is population gorwth x age gap. Do you deny that or are you simply unaware?
Who are all the “not” good boys marrying?? Because almost all the boys seem to be married..October 27, 2009 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #664563
Ok, but the age thing is only one factor.
The issues which rescue37 and I raised are also factors.October 27, 2009 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #664564
The issue you raised determines which girls – NOT how many. Same for the issue rescue raised.. (besides the obvious point that there are no hard data to even determine if your points are true at all).
One famous myth is that girls from lkwd had a difficult time, not so rich etc etc. The school data shows that to be absolutely FALSE. I can’t disclose names of schools or numbers but suffice it to say that their lkwd HS alumni is not any worse off than the brooklyn schools. My point being that convenient theories don’t necessarily make for truth. Besides for the fact that yours and rescue are simply irrelevant.October 27, 2009 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #664565
Statistics lie; anyone who works with numbers can manipulate data to suit anyone. You tell me what you want to see, and I’ll prove it with the numbers.October 27, 2009 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #664566tzippiMember
AZ, you the number man. Do you know what percentage of within age marriages it will take to significantly ameliorate the problem? I have been zoche to participate or otherwise share in various simchos, and they’re not within range (including a 23 y.o. young woman who married a guy 3 full years older). I think this is what’s causing unease among people such as Cherrybim and myself. Will this get better with anything short of MANDATING? And what of other somewhat significant issues? If we address them, such as a radical chanoch l’naar campaign, easing the other “gaps” will that help too?October 27, 2009 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #664567
tzippi – easing the other “gaps” will help, but it won’t solve the main issue. If it’s a numbers problem – the other gaps only accelerate the main one. Truthfully, I think the only thing that’ll really help – short of mandating – is to see the Rabbonim & R”Y have their own children & grandchildren marry close in age & return younger from E”Y. When the “hamon am” sees this – they’ll follow suit.October 27, 2009 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #664568rescue37Participant
The boys are marrying girls that have a more realistic view of what they want. For simplicity let’s call the good boys (A) the ones that are going to learn 5+ years and the not good boys (B) the ones learning less than that. When a new class of girls start going out 90% of the girls want a type A boy. The problem is that only 75% of the boys are type A. The type B boys now have the pool of 10% of the girls and whatever percentage from older classes that have changed their view and will now settle for a type B. The problem is that there are many sub levels of type B, and the girl may only want type B-1 & B-2 but there may be more B-3 & B-4 boys out there which the girls is not willing to consider yet. Along with this, is the problem that to be a good girl all you have to do is say you want a type A boy and give off a good impression. To be a good boy, you have a laundry list of things that you have to do such as daven with a minyan and learn. Within that, there is how many times a week do you daven with a minyan, where do you daven, do you only wear a hat when you daven, what color shirt do you wear when you daven etc. and the same with learning, and if the guy leaves yeshiva to work because he looks towards the future and realizes it’s better for him to start at a certain point instead of waiting for tuition bills, it makes him a Tyoe C. The girls that realize early on that a type B-10 boy could be good also, usually don’t have a problem. Based on my experience (I married at the late age of 26 and my wife was 26 also) The girls looking for a tyope A usually start lowering their standards when the type B level they are looking for is almost depleted. As they say, the early bird catches the worm.October 27, 2009 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #664570haifagirlParticipant
do you only wear a hat when you daven
I hope he is also wearing a shirt. Even a colored one.October 27, 2009 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #664571
Cherrybim: Statistics may lie – single girls never getting married never having children don’t.
Tzippi: YES YES YES. Mandating is not necessary. I won’t bore you with the math but if we are successful in having more close in age shidduchim to the tune of average one month closer than last year – the problem for THIS years entering girls will be solved. We will need to continuously close the gap by one month per year (and help each entering year) until we are about average age gap one year.
Eminently doable if we only paid attention. It’s doesn’t mean all marriages have to be close in age, just significantly more than in the past. B”H much has been done but as a community we are a far way from being finished.
EDITEDOctober 27, 2009 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #664572
rescue: there should be equal numbers of older single boys (not good) and girls (good). It’s just not the facts on the ground. Nice theory but totally doesn’t explain the phenoman.
What you are claiming is that there are more good girls than good boys and your are offering explanations why you think that is so.
I still ask you. WHO are all the “not” good boys marrying. Because they are by and large getting married.
I don’t care if the girls left over are “good” or “not good” girls. Either way it’s unacceptable if there is anything we can do about it.October 27, 2009 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #664573Mezonos MavenMember
You keep repeating that the boys are (almost) all getting married and that the “shidduch crisis” is only by girls – and effectively there is no shidduch crisis by boys.
But this defies what you can see with your own eyes — as they’re ARE nebech MANY older single (never married) guys.
None of the Rabbonim & R”Y’s have publicly called for taking the boys away from learning in E”Y and bringing them home earlier. Please be honest and not claim things in the name of the Rabbonim & R”Y’s that they have not said.
- The topic ‘YOU can Resolve the Shidduch Crisis’ is closed to new replies.