Ripping Letters

Home Forums Shabbos! Ripping Letters

Viewing 46 posts - 1 through 46 (of 46 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #589442

    moish01
    Member

    OK, this question came up in another thread, so instead of going off topic…

    Is it muttar to tear letters on shabbos?

    Before you answer:

    • If no, why is it assur? Which melacha is it?
    • How about letzorech ochel nafesh? (the packaging or the food itself)
    • What about a library book – the letters that are stamped on the top?

    #894626

    See moish, u DO care

    #894627

    kapusta
    Participant

    moish was I not supposed to see this lol

    #894628

    moish01
    Member

    hey why ever not?

    syrian, i’m the one who keeps saying i care. i see it’s a new concept for you.

    #894629

    kapusta
    Participant

    I’m waiting for my answer on the yetzer hara thread. thats why

    #894630

    JayMatt19
    Participant

    The issur is ????, erasing. The case you gave regarding food, is an issur d’rabanan. As for cases of “need” ask your Rov.

    As for the library book, I was told one should put a bookmark in before shabbos (“breaking” the stamp) to avoid issues

    #894631

    JayMatt19
    Participant

    Please let me clarify. Ripping letters is ????. There are cases where doing so will be an issur d’oreisa. Generally speaking, ripping letter when opening food packaging will only be a rabbinic issur of ????.

    #894632

    Moish if u REALLY cared, u would do

    #894633

    h2
    Member

    It is assur to tear letters on Shabbos. It comes under the melacha of mochek. If it is for food- you can open a package (some poskim say different ways to do it) but never on letters. And about opening a book with words stamped on it: the mishna berura says says it perferable not to- but it’s not assur.

    #894634

    moish01
    Member

    Jay, every time you turn a page you’re being “mochek.”

    and what about if the words are the food. say, on a cake of something.

    #894635

    moish01
    Member

    syrian, you have me a little confused here.

    first you said: See moish, u DO care

    and then, Moish if u REALLY cared, u would do

    …so do i care or not? the decision is in your hands… don’t you feel powerful?

    #894636

    JayMatt19
    Participant

    >>Jay, every time you turn a page you’re being “mochek.”<<

    Not if there is a bookmark in it from before. You cannot be mochek that which was already mochek! You already broke-up the words “Brooklyn Public Library!”

    >>and what about if the words are the food. say, on a cake of something. <<

    Also a prob. Frosting on a cake is problematic. However, when it is made of the same substance (e.g. a candy bar where the chocolate is shaped to spell the name of the candy) does not have an issue of mochek

    #894637

    blackcar
    Participant

    Moish: ha no, after I sent it I’m like that totally didn’t make sense…but moish since u DO care why don’t u do what’s right?

    #894638

    an open book
    Participant

    i dont think its so simple concerning food (like icing on cake). as far as i know, there are different opinions, so this is probably not the best place to find out what u should do.

    #894639

    moish01
    Member

    same substance… why don’t i like that answer?

    so a kit-kat is ok, but “happy birthday moish” isn’t. i hear.

    mind you, why is mochek only with words?

    #894640

    JayMatt19
    Participant

    >>mind you, why is mochek only with words? <<

    There is also a separate issur of ripping. The can overlap

    #894641

    moish01
    Member

    no, if there’s a flower or somethin on a cake, why is it muttar to cut that and not “happy birthday”

    #894642

    moish01
    Member

    syrain, why is everything so simple to you?

    #894643

    an open book
    Participant

    moish01: b4 u get all skeptical, read my post

    #894644

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    moish: this milacha is regarding letters not pictures!!!

    #894645

    TJ
    Member

    There are Sefardim who permit tearing letters on food packaging.

    #894647

    moish01
    Member

    an open book, thanks i saw that but i can’t argue or agree on that one…

    #894648

    an open book
    Participant

    moish01: simple (sry). she doesnt understand ur logic, & u dont understand hers

    #894649

    Library books, or other books with lettering on the page-ends – some people leave book-marks between the pages, and/or leave the books open before Shabbos. I don’t know what people do as far as closing those books or reopening them if they got closed on Shabbos.

    Frosting on cakes – I remember learning that letters made with honey are OK, but otherwise there may be a problem.

    Unfortunately, I don’t remember mekoros, and don’t have time to look things up now.

    I seem to recall “k’sav ha’ussuy lemachak” (writing done with the intent of having it erased) is a kuleh.

    #894650

    moish01
    Member

    mechika means to erase. what did they erase in the miskan?

    thanks, TJ. i’m becoming sfardi. what else do they allow?? 😉

    #894651

    moish01
    Member

    ICOT, sound familiar. don’t remember either.

    #894652

    JayMatt19
    Participant

    In the Mishkan:

    If an error occurred when the letters were written on the Keroshim, the error was erased, so that the correct letter could be written in its place.

    #894654

    moish01
    Member

    an open book, that’s not what i meant by simple. i meant that everything is so easy and simplistic in her manner. like, the way she expects me to drop stop and roll when i hear something is “good” or “bad.”

    for example: …but moish since u DO care why don’t u do what’s right?

    syrian, don’t you have any challenges? you’re not human if you don’t. not everything is so easy – even if it makes sense logically. what’s so hard to understand about that?

    #894655

    an open book
    Participant

    moish01: i kno what ur saying. but i can understand that for her, it may just be that simple, knowing that its right, she does it. even for me, for many things, just knowing that i should be doing something, i will do it, because i avoid guilt almost at all costs. i really have no idea what syrian’s life is like, but i can tell you that sometimes it IS simple in some areas for some ppl. not that life is a breeze for anyone, but regarding specific things, it may be easier than for you, it’s true.

    dont forget that somethings come naturally to you that are harder for other ppl, so dont think you have it the hardest as a whole.

    i feel like i have definitely written this to you before but maybe not exactly? sorry if im repeating myself.

    #894656

    qwertyuiop
    Member

    moish: till afew years ago, i used to rip the letters on food, but B”H i was able to stop myself now.$

    #894657

    moish01
    Member

    oh you don’t think i have it that hard as a whole?? easy for you to say.

    #894658

    an open book
    Participant

    moish01: thats not what i said! u can go back & check but i said “don’t think you have it the hardest“, not u dont have it hard.

    i dont think you have it easy. you’ve already established that point. very clearly. i got it.

    #894659

    moish01
    Member

    an open book, not trying to rate everyone’s pain on a scale here. but you wouldn’t know what pain was if it were staring you in the face.

    #894660

    an open book
    Participant

    wow i just saw this for the first time now – at least a month later!!! how weird. i barely remember this conversation.

    moish01: you make some really interesting assumptions

    #894661

    areivimzehlazeh
    Participant

    pain… ripping letters. Does it get any farther apart?

    #894662

    moish01
    Member

    i had to look back at how it got there. makes perfect sense to me now 😉

    #894664

    bugnot
    Participant

    as far as i know with the issur of mochek that we do not rip on words is be`etzem a chumrah

    nogeah eating cakes icing the ramah in 340 bfeirush says it is muttur [aval yeish cholkim ayin shum heiteiv] the mishnah brurah is mevaer it is domeh to opening and shutting a door on shabbos that there there is no issur of boneh soser because it is made to be like that

    nogeah library books there is what to be somech on to be meikal ie the svarah of the mishnah berurah and that it is not really mochek al mnas lichtov vchu’ but i am not a posek lmaaseh in the real world so don’t be somech on me.

    Enough of your games Mr. bugnot A.K.A. bugyes A.K.A. Chacham A.K.A. posek hador A.K.A. shtultzy guy A.K.A. shmoigel A.K.A. not my real name A.K.A. curiousme.

    I can go on and on and on. Pick a screen name and stick with it already!

    #894665

    an open book
    Participant

    are you queen kapusta & asdfghjk too???

    of course, you’re really just joseph – that includes everyone, right?

    #894666

    asdfghjk
    Participant

    an open book: I’m new to this site, stop suspecting me already!!!!!!!!

    You claim to be new yet you seem to do a pretty good job at asdfghjkl’s style!!!!

    #894667

    asdfghjk
    Participant

    ONe thing i guarantee you mod, I AM NOT ASDFGHJKL

    I believe you. You are not him, but you are trying to impersonate him. People around here know him and get confused when they see your name. The style doesn’t majke it any better!!!!!

    #894671

    kapusta
    Participant

    !!!!!!!! seems awfully familiar.

    mod, you mean head in the sand wasn’t part of the list?

    *kapusta*

    Yes, head in the sand is the same person. Like I said, I can go on and on…

    #894673

    an open book
    Participant

    weird how the mods don’t quite buy your story!

    #894674

    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    Back to ripping letters… You can rip bugnot… Here.

    #894677

    Jax
    Member

    mod42: thank you! now back to ripping letters-or not ripping letters!

    #894678

    mik5
    Participant

    Opening a Shabbosdik book with letters is not a problem, but the M”B brings that there is a minhag to be stringent – unless there are no other seforim available (in which case we are more concerned with the aveira of bittul torah than a minhag).

    #894679

    golfer
    Participant

    Sometimes i think i am the only nebbish here with only 1 name! And NO subtitle! Hallooo!… Anybody else out there????

    The subtitles i get- who wouldn’t? But the multiple names- i just don’t know. Why?

Viewing 46 posts - 1 through 46 (of 46 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


Trending