February 22, 2009 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #589442
OK, this question came up in another thread, so instead of going off topic…
Is it muttar to tear letters on shabbos?
Before you answer:
February 22, 2009 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #894626
- If no, why is it assur? Which melacha is it?
- How about letzorech ochel nafesh? (the packaging or the food itself)
- What about a library book – the letters that are stamped on the top?
See moish, u DO careFebruary 22, 2009 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #894627
moish was I not supposed to see this lolFebruary 22, 2009 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #894628
hey why ever not?
syrian, i’m the one who keeps saying i care. i see it’s a new concept for you.February 22, 2009 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #894629
I’m waiting for my answer on the yetzer hara thread. thats whyFebruary 22, 2009 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #894630
The issur is ????, erasing. The case you gave regarding food, is an issur d’rabanan. As for cases of “need” ask your Rov.
As for the library book, I was told one should put a bookmark in before shabbos (“breaking” the stamp) to avoid issuesFebruary 22, 2009 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #894631
Please let me clarify. Ripping letters is ????. There are cases where doing so will be an issur d’oreisa. Generally speaking, ripping letter when opening food packaging will only be a rabbinic issur of ????.February 22, 2009 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #894632
Moish if u REALLY cared, u would doFebruary 22, 2009 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #894633
It is assur to tear letters on Shabbos. It comes under the melacha of mochek. If it is for food- you can open a package (some poskim say different ways to do it) but never on letters. And about opening a book with words stamped on it: the mishna berura says says it perferable not to- but it’s not assur.February 22, 2009 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #894634
Jay, every time you turn a page you’re being “mochek.”
and what about if the words are the food. say, on a cake of something.February 22, 2009 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #894635
syrian, you have me a little confused here.
first you said: See moish, u DO care
and then, Moish if u REALLY cared, u would do
…so do i care or not? the decision is in your hands… don’t you feel powerful?February 22, 2009 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #894636
>>Jay, every time you turn a page you’re being “mochek.”<<
Not if there is a bookmark in it from before. You cannot be mochek that which was already mochek! You already broke-up the words “Brooklyn Public Library!”
>>and what about if the words are the food. say, on a cake of something. <<
Also a prob. Frosting on a cake is problematic. However, when it is made of the same substance (e.g. a candy bar where the chocolate is shaped to spell the name of the candy) does not have an issue of mochekFebruary 22, 2009 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #894637
Moish: ha no, after I sent it I’m like that totally didn’t make sense…but moish since u DO care why don’t u do what’s right?February 22, 2009 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #894638
i dont think its so simple concerning food (like icing on cake). as far as i know, there are different opinions, so this is probably not the best place to find out what u should do.February 22, 2009 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #894639
same substance… why don’t i like that answer?
so a kit-kat is ok, but “happy birthday moish” isn’t. i hear.
mind you, why is mochek only with words?February 22, 2009 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #894640
>>mind you, why is mochek only with words? <<
There is also a separate issur of ripping. The can overlapFebruary 22, 2009 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #894641
no, if there’s a flower or somethin on a cake, why is it muttar to cut that and not “happy birthday”February 22, 2009 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #894642
syrain, why is everything so simple to you?February 22, 2009 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #894643
moish01: b4 u get all skeptical, read my postFebruary 22, 2009 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #894644
moish: this milacha is regarding letters not pictures!!!February 22, 2009 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #894645
There are Sefardim who permit tearing letters on food packaging.February 22, 2009 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #894647
an open book, thanks i saw that but i can’t argue or agree on that one…February 22, 2009 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #894648
moish01: simple (sry). she doesnt understand ur logic, & u dont understand hersFebruary 22, 2009 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #894649
I can only tryMember
Library books, or other books with lettering on the page-ends – some people leave book-marks between the pages, and/or leave the books open before Shabbos. I don’t know what people do as far as closing those books or reopening them if they got closed on Shabbos.
Frosting on cakes – I remember learning that letters made with honey are OK, but otherwise there may be a problem.
Unfortunately, I don’t remember mekoros, and don’t have time to look things up now.
I seem to recall “k’sav ha’ussuy lemachak” (writing done with the intent of having it erased) is a kuleh.February 22, 2009 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #894650
mechika means to erase. what did they erase in the miskan?
thanks, TJ. i’m becoming sfardi. what else do they allow?? 😉February 22, 2009 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #894651
ICOT, sound familiar. don’t remember either.February 22, 2009 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #894652
In the Mishkan:
If an error occurred when the letters were written on the Keroshim, the error was erased, so that the correct letter could be written in its place.February 22, 2009 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #894654
an open book, that’s not what i meant by simple. i meant that everything is so easy and simplistic in her manner. like, the way she expects me to drop stop and roll when i hear something is “good” or “bad.”
for example: …but moish since u DO care why don’t u do what’s right?
syrian, don’t you have any challenges? you’re not human if you don’t. not everything is so easy – even if it makes sense logically. what’s so hard to understand about that?February 23, 2009 3:13 am at 3:13 am #894655
moish01: i kno what ur saying. but i can understand that for her, it may just be that simple, knowing that its right, she does it. even for me, for many things, just knowing that i should be doing something, i will do it, because i avoid guilt almost at all costs. i really have no idea what syrian’s life is like, but i can tell you that sometimes it IS simple in some areas for some ppl. not that life is a breeze for anyone, but regarding specific things, it may be easier than for you, it’s true.
dont forget that somethings come naturally to you that are harder for other ppl, so dont think you have it the hardest as a whole.
i feel like i have definitely written this to you before but maybe not exactly? sorry if im repeating myself.February 23, 2009 3:28 am at 3:28 am #894656
moish: till afew years ago, i used to rip the letters on food, but B”H i was able to stop myself now.$February 23, 2009 3:35 am at 3:35 am #894657
oh you don’t think i have it that hard as a whole?? easy for you to say.February 23, 2009 4:55 am at 4:55 am #894658
moish01: thats not what i said! u can go back & check but i said “don’t think you have it the hardest“, not u dont have it hard.
i dont think you have it easy. you’ve already established that point. very clearly. i got it.February 23, 2009 5:24 am at 5:24 am #894659
an open book, not trying to rate everyone’s pain on a scale here. but you wouldn’t know what pain was if it were staring you in the face.April 3, 2009 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #894660
wow i just saw this for the first time now – at least a month later!!! how weird. i barely remember this conversation.
moish01: you make some really interesting assumptionsApril 6, 2009 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #894661
pain… ripping letters. Does it get any farther apart?April 6, 2009 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #894662
i had to look back at how it got there. makes perfect sense to me now 😉April 7, 2009 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #894664
as far as i know with the issur of mochek that we do not rip on words is be`etzem a chumrah
nogeah eating cakes icing the ramah in 340 bfeirush says it is muttur [aval yeish cholkim ayin shum heiteiv] the mishnah brurah is mevaer it is domeh to opening and shutting a door on shabbos that there there is no issur of boneh soser because it is made to be like that
nogeah library books there is what to be somech on to be meikal ie the svarah of the mishnah berurah and that it is not really mochek al mnas lichtov vchu’ but i am not a posek lmaaseh in the real world so don’t be somech on me.
I can go on and on and on. Pick a screen name and stick with it already!April 7, 2009 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #894665
are you queen kapusta & asdfghjk too???
of course, you’re really just joseph – that includes everyone, right?April 7, 2009 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #894666
an open book: I’m new to this site, stop suspecting me already!!!!!!!!
You claim to be new yet you seem to do a pretty good job at asdfghjkl’s style!!!!April 7, 2009 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #894667
ONe thing i guarantee you mod, I AM NOT ASDFGHJKL
I believe you. You are not him, but you are trying to impersonate him. People around here know him and get confused when they see your name. The style doesn’t majke it any better!!!!!April 7, 2009 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #894671
!!!!!!!! seems awfully familiar.
mod, you mean head in the sand wasn’t part of the list?
Yes, head in the sand is the same person. Like I said, I can go on and on…April 7, 2009 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #894673
weird how the mods don’t quite buy your story!April 7, 2009 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #894674April 7, 2009 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #894677
mod42: thank you! now back to ripping letters-or not ripping letters!September 4, 2012 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #894678
Opening a Shabbosdik book with letters is not a problem, but the M”B brings that there is a minhag to be stringent – unless there are no other seforim available (in which case we are more concerned with the aveira of bittul torah than a minhag).September 4, 2012 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #894679
Sometimes i think i am the only nebbish here with only 1 name! And NO subtitle! Hallooo!… Anybody else out there????
The subtitles i get- who wouldn’t? But the multiple names- i just don’t know. Why?
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