Selichos….ooooh NOOO

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  • #599562
    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    This Motzei Shabbos starts 2 weeks of selichos. I need chizuk in this area. badly. The early early mornings are probably THE hardest ones from the year, and when I’m tired I’m grouchy. To put it bluntly: I’m totally not in the mood. I need a boost. Anyone got something spiritually enlightning that can help carry me through the next two weeks?

    #896432
    deiyezooger
    Member

    You can always go to a late night minyan instead of early morning if this is the ishue.

    #896433
    yacr85
    Participant

    Yeah wake up early enough before the Selichos that you can have your coffee.

    Say Brachos etc and feel good about yourself before you even start Selichos.

    Then your Selichos will be said with Zest and Geshmak, as will your Davening.

    Then your day will simply fly by in a pleasurable state of bliss! Well maybe not that perfect but it helps the whole day if you start it out right.

    Oh and another trick a Doctor told me. GET TO BED EARLIER!!

    #896434
    The Frumguy
    Participant

    Beside the standard “these are necessary preparation days for Rosh Hashanah” you should know that I notice you’re not alone. Look around during these two weeks and you’ll see that many men who you meet seem to be sleep-deprived.

    So the best chizuk I can afford at this time is probably “you’re in good company with the rest of K’lal Yisroel.

    Wishing all a K’siva V’chasima Tova for 5772.

    #896435
    LeiderLeider…
    Participant

    If it makes you feel any better, many of us are in the same boat. I have no doubt that if we truly understand the Slichus we will have an easier time saying it. May I suggest that you pick one or two pizmonim from each day of Slichos (perhaps more for erev Rosh Hashanah) and learn it through and through in-depth, including looking up referenced pesukim etc. until you own the piece! You will be looking forward to Slichos!

    Tried, tested, and proven…

    Same with daily davening.

    #896436

    if anyone needs a boost to help wakr up in the morning you can try this very yeshivish trock my friend does.

    before he goes to bed at night he makes a thermos flask of coffee and leaves it by his bed for th morning with a straw, the first he does when he is sitting in bed is drink the coffee, he says he is then able to fly out of bed, and his wife has got used to it!!!

    #896437
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Trust me, you are far from the only one. Here’s some practical advice:

    1- Prepare one slicha for each day (I do the pizmon) ahead of time as if you were going to teach it. Translate it. Read it as poetry. Look up the psukim. Understand the literary devices. Then when you get up to there during davening you appreciate it because you don’t feel like you’re seeing it for the first time.

    2- If you drink coffee before shacharis, do it this week. If you don’t, do it anyway. If you’re saying slichos before dawn like we should, there’s no issue.

    3- This shabbos, find some time –not at the expense of your nap — to lear through the collections of psukim we say at the beginning of slichos and right before vidui. Look them up in context. Learn some of them with commentaries.

    Now, if anyone has any advice to help me concentrate during the Geonic parts towards the end, please let me know. That’s where I really need chizuk.

    #896438
    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    deiyezooger

    Where I live (OOT) the only selichos said at night is Motzei Shabbos. All others are morning minyanim:(

    Thanks for the chizuk guys. I think deep down we all realize selichos is really an opportunity and privilege that we should welcome with love and happiness, I just have to get revved up and into the mood. Last year was a disaster I don’t want to repeat! So I even started browsing through the english selichos for translation, thx for the eitza. Hope it works.

    #896439
    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    …here we go again.

    I got myself an english translated slichos for some help in understanding my tefillos.

    #896440

    YOu have it easy Iimagine what the sefardim go through (they started on rosh chodesh)

    #896441
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    If it was a vacation/trip, you would make it work. Think of the lost sleep as a Korban. I have the same problem, and am trying to motivate myself as well.

    #896442
    aurora77
    Participant

    Hello BallHabooze and This name is already taken,

    I was just re-reading a part of a book called Days of Awe, regarding preparation in Elul for the High Holy Days, and the text was discussing Selichot. Could you or anyone in the Coffee Room tell me if it is common practice to wake up at midnight to begin reading and reciting the prayers? The book makes it sound as if that is the case. Also, do women do this as well as men, and if they do, is there any difference in the way they go about doing this?

    Thank you for explaining the details to me, and I hope you have a restful Shabbos!

    #896443
    shein
    Member

    aurora: Yes, it is very common to go to 12:45 AM selichos, on the first day of selichos. (Generally, only the first day.) In my city, there are hundreds of such minyanim.

    And, no, women do not go to a minyan for selichos and usually don’t say it altogether.

    #896444
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Most shuls have the prayers after midnight, there are a few that have as early at 10pm.

    As far as women go, in the more Modern Orthodox shuls, women usually do attend and many times the Shuls have a larger program before the Selichot prayers.

    In the more Charedi communities I dont think women attend

    #896445
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Days of Awe? I know the write of that book personally! Its a very good book…..

    Since I am a girl I sort of know what it is so I cannot fully explain it…yes me and friends wake up at midnight, say selichos, and go back to bed! Most of my friend are going to shul (Brit Knesset / synagogue) but it is very tiring to do so…..I think Im going to say it at home.

    ?ns ?o suo?????do ?o p??? pu? ‘??p???? ‘??puno? ???

    (319bu?ddo?s) 319[$]

    [$]613 (Shopping613)

    The Founder, Awarder, and Head of Operations of SUC

    #896446
    aurora77
    Participant

    Thank you for explaining this to me shein, zahavasdad, and Shopping613. So it sounds as if saying selichot is something that a woman can do at home on her own. The editor of the book I’m re-reading is S. Y. Agnon — is that who you are talking about, Shopping 613?

    #896447
    147
    Participant

    This name is already taken

    YOu have it easy Iimagine what the sefardim go through (they started on rosh chodesh)

    Bear in mind, how easy the Sephardim have it during the days, especially when the real date of Tisho b’Ov comes out on a Sunday. However this is all far too short lived for them, as they pay back very dearly just a month later, when they have to pay back for the easy 9 days with far more days of Selichos.

    But I believe that the Sepahrdi Selichos are not as long nor as varied {i.e. not a different one each & everyday} as the Ashkenazik Selichos.

    #896448
    Nechomah
    Participant

    Aurora, sorry that I’m responding after the times for the Selichos in your part of the world. As a matter of fact, many women do go for the first night of Selichos, not usually past this point, although it is definitely not unheard of. My daughter went most of the nights a few years ago. She was even allowed to come to school late if I sent a note with her.

    As far as saying the Selichos prayers at home, there are many parts that are possible to say, but I am under the impression that the parts regarding the 13 Attributes of H-Shem are not to be said unless one is present in a minyan (quorum) of men. Artscroll probably has some of the laws regarding this in the back of the prayer books for these special prayers.

    I do, however, think as a first step that it would be perfectly fine for you to start off by saying these prayers at home especially since you’ve said that you’re far from an Orthodox community. As an older single in the past, when I would make my Shabbos plans for the Shabbos when Selichos would begin that night, I would ask my host if I could stay over until Sunday morning so that I could be nearby for the Selichos as well. It was never a problem, so perhaps next year you’ll be able to do that.

    Just as an aside, I read in another post that you feel you are of an age that you might never get married, you might actually find that getting married at an older age is still possible in the Orthodox world. Men are encouraged to be married as it says in the Torah that it is “not good for a man to be alone”, and I know of one rabbi who got married again recently and he is over the age of 85, so you never know.

    Wishing you a meaningful New Year in your path to Torah and Mitzvos.

    #896449
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Nope…I got mixed up between Days of Awe and Days of Majesty……..

    ?ns ?o suo?????do ?o p??? pu? ‘??p???? ‘??puno? ???

    (319bu?ddo?s) 319[$]

    [$]613 (Shopping613)

    The Founder, Awarder, and Head of Operations of SUC

    #896450
    aurora77
    Participant

    Hello Nechomah,

    Thank you for your encouragement and suggestions! I’m glad that some of the practices I can begin at home, especially while I’m still helpings my mother as she goes through chemotherapy. I am also hopeful that maybe someday I may still find my other half! I hope you have a wonderful New Year 🙂

    #896451
    golfer
    Participant

    Hi Aurora!

    I’m not a big “responder” here, but i enjoy reading your posts and am fascinated with your interest in, and return to your roots . In Hebrew we say- “Kol Hatchalot Kashot”- all beginnings are difficult, and i have a lot of admiration for your persistence. I do not mean to be judgmental at all but regarding your mention of S Y Agnon I wanted to say- I don’t think his writing is a good place to start. There is a great deal of literature out there by Jewish authors on Judaism. Not all of it is truthful and trustworthy. The hashkafa (outlook) presented sometimes, unfortunately, deviates from true Torah belief. I suggest putting aside Agnon for a while, until you yourself have become more acquainted with Torah study.

    #896452
    yichusdik
    Participant

    Aurora, I sort of agree with golfer – SY Agnon was a great author, but even though he did use many torah sources in his works of fiction (for which he won a Nobel prize), He was not writing as an explainer or strengthener or teacher of Jewish practice or philosophy, and did not purport to be an authority on Jewish customs.

    I also have a lot of admiration for your journey, and I do think you should explore what particular approach to Torah Judaism works for you. Agnon might be an interesting sidebar or illustration of Jewish life and tradition, but he was primarily a writer of fiction.

    #896453
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I went to slichos last night. I think it was the first time I’ve done nighttime slichos in a few years.

    #896454
    lebidik yankel
    Participant

    In Israel in the Charedi communities it has become common for women to come to the selichos every day. The 12:30 ones are full of women (more girls, though) and the early morning 7 AM selichos also have a nice showing of women.

    #896455
    aurora77
    Participant

    Hello golfer and yichusdik,

    Thank you so much for your advice! And I have to apologize for taking this thread off-track for a few posts here — I’m sorry BaalHabooze!

    It really means a lot to me what both of you said about my journey in becoming Orthodox 🙂 Thank you for pointing me in the right direction regarding S.Y. Agnon. It makes sense, what you said yichusdik, about him using many Torah sources, because Days of Awe does not list him as the author, but rather as the editor. I suppose he was kind of splicing together various sources, because he seems to take stuff from all over the place — a lot of interesting stories. Some of what he cites I can understand, but there is also plenty that confuses me because I lack the necessary context, I think. For instance, with the section on Selichot, I could gather from what he cited when one starts saying the penitential prayers (in terms of time of day and time during Elul), but I am not even remotely sure what prayers are said or the proper way to say them! I have to get more info on the basics, I’m sure.

    #896456
    besalel
    Participant

    every single sefaradi that saw this post probably made a face because (1) they do it for forty days; (2) men, women and children all go and (3) they all love it and look forward all year for selichos to start.

    #896457
    Nechomah
    Participant

    Aurora, just to give you context:

    Penitence means to have remorse for your past conduct.

    The word Selichot comes from the root of Selicha in Loshon HaKodesh (the language the Torah is written in) which means “sorry”.

    So the penitential prayers that he is referring to are the Selichot prayers. Just he is using the anglicized version whereas we are referring to a transliterated word. I found that in my journey to yiddishkeit that the anglicized versions began to bother me since they did not really give any meaning behind the word they were referring to. Loshon Hakodesh is a very deep and rich language and I was able to transition into the prayers in Hebrew much more easily by using a transliterated version of the prayers once I was comfortable with saying them in English.

    Don’t apologize for sidetracking the thread – it’s a oldie but will come back to it’s original point no matter, and I’m sure your journey will be filled with minor detours as you learn the destination to which you are heading and decide the course you want to take to get there. Hatzlacha.

    #896458
    aurora77
    Participant

    Thank you very much Nechomah for your explanation and encouragement — it is so helpful to have both right now!

    Lebidik yankel and besalel, I am very interested to hear what goes on in other places and in other observant Jewish communities. What besalel said made me think of some questions I have, if anyone has some answers:

    It sounds from what besalel wrote that some people of Sephardic background are part of the CR. I often see on posts and threads here the word “Yiddishkeit,” which I had thought was an expression referring more or less to Ashkenazi Jewish people. Are Sephardic (and Mizrahi, for that matter) Jewish people part of the “Yiddishkeit” that posters here refer to? If not, what are the equivalent expressions to “Yiddishkeit” for Sephardic and Mizrahi people? Does the website name here “Yeshiva World” encompass yeshiva thinking and discussions that are primarily geared towards one of these three major groupings of Jewish people, or to all of them? Do people of these three major groupings tend to go to separate Ashkenazic, Sephardic, or Mizrahi yeshivas, or do they tend to all learn together?

    Thank you for your clarifications!

    #896459
    besalel
    Participant

    aurora: ????????? ??????, ?????? ????????,

    the differences between us is dwarfed by the awesomeness of the borey olam who brought us together and made us brothers.

    #896460
    aurora77
    Participant

    Hello besalel,

    That is beautiful! I agree completely. Is what you wrote in English a translation of the Hebrew? I don’t read Hebrew at this point but will be changing that!

    #896461
    besalel
    Participant

    auroa: see, Genesis, 42:32

    #896462
    WIY
    Member

    besalel

    You can say what you said and also give her an answer to her question.

    aurora77

    Yiddishkeit means Judaism however it is a Yiddish word “Yid” means Jew so Yiddish means Jewish i.e. if someone speaks Yiddish he speaks “Jewish.” So the term Yiddishkiet is a term used by those with Ashkenazic and Yiddish speaking backgrounds, or education.

    Yiddishkiet or Judaism is observed by all religious Jews but is basically a term that is only used by Ashkenazim.

    As for education, yes for the most part there are separate Yeshivos for all. The main reason being that Sefardim pasken (loosely translated as follow Halachically) the Mechaber (Mechaber means author)(Rav Yosef Karo,who wrote the Shulchon Aruch) and Ashkenazim pasken like the Rema (Rabbi Moshe Isserles who wrote the Hagaah which is an interlinear gloss inside the Shulchon Aruch where he edits the words of the Mechaber of Shulchon Aruch and argues with him). Therefore since there are variations in Halachos and Minhagim the schools are usually separate however you will often find some sefardim in Ashkenazic schools and I assume vice versa although I cant be sure of it.

    The Yeshivaworld news caters specifically to those who consider themselves part of the Yeshiva world (more to the right) but not Chassidic.

    #896463
    aurora77
    Participant

    Thank you WIY, this is very helpful and really fascinating to me! I think I understand the situation better now.

    besalel, I will check out that particular verse and try to figure it out!

    #896464

    I can’t make it to any slichos at all. I need to sleep at least 8-9 hours. Since I have to get up at 6:15 (actually 6:00), where would slichos fit in?

    And no, I cannot survive on less. When I sleep 7-8 hours, I fall asleep at work numerous times during the day, even in the middle of calls with customers.

    It may seem excessive, but for an adult to need anywhere between 5 to 10 hours of sleep is not excessive, not abnormal. Ideally, I need 10 hours indeed, but I only rarely get that.

    #896465
    chavrusa
    Member

    “As far as women go, in the more Modern Orthodox shuls, women usually do attend…”

    Rabbi Yisroel Reisman’s rebbetzin and “fellow” ladies have been joining the late night slichos for years now…and yes,they are chareidi.

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