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This has been bothering me for quite some time now.We know three seudos must be eaten on shabbos. So why do so many yidden eat the third meal during bein hashmashos(or start right before)? To put it another way, if there would be a mitzva to eat one meal on shabbos would you eat it after sunset? So why should seuda shlishis be different? That too must be eaten on shabbos, not after shabbos. Help me please!
maybe, cuz those people hold that the days does not end by bein hashmoshes.
and hey, we have very similar SN’s
2sense: Because Halachah says that as long as you start on Shabbos you are Yotzei.
OT, but what do you say to someone whom you greet in the street after dark, but not yet Motzai Shabbos?
As long as the meal began before shkia then it is the third meal on Shabbos.
Some hold the meal must begin by shkia, some hold by half an hour before nacht, some even later. Some rebbes have their own zmanim and only begin long, long after our nacht which is why there are many photos of shaleshedis tishen.
It’s called Tosefes Shabbos. You can make kiddush and even complete the Friday night meal all before shkia as well.
If during the winter months you ate the Friday night seuda and then a couple hours later washed and had Friday night cholent and then ate lunch the next day would that qualify as 3 meals?
2sense
Some begin it before because there is an opinion in Piskei Teshuvos that any food eaten after Tzays is considered Melava Malka. So the the third meal is done late in order to A)Have a third meal and B)Continue it so there can also be the mitzvah of Melava Malka fulfilled in the same sitting.
Israeli Chareidi: I was going to say that, but I think that Pashtus is there is a difference in the Tosefes to bring in Shabbos than the Tosefes at the end.
Sam2: Why do you think there is a difference? Please explain.
of course they are different they are in a completely separate week
I personally eat shalosh seuda as late as possible as otherwise if you are eating on a full stomach you also have a problem
See Shemirat Shabbat KeHilcata 56:4 and footnote 18. The half-hour before tzet hakochavim rule is because of the general rule not to start a meal within half an hour before the obligation to do a mitzva (in tis case Havdala as well as Keriat Shema and Maariv) begins.
crazybrit: Why does it matter which week you’ve extended Shabbos into? Why should bringing it in early be different than letting it out late?
(This idea is actually mentioned a few times in the zemiros – originally from the Gemoro, I believe.)
AIC: Without getting into anything long the differences, I believe everyone agrees that if R”C is Friday and you start your meal early, you don’t say Ya’aleh Veyavo. There is quite a Machlokes about when R”C is Sunday and your meal continues into the night Motza’ei Shabbos
Sam2: I see your point. I guess this is in need of further research. Thanks for the motivation.
The answer to your question Sam2 & Israeli Chareidi is, that when a Tzibbur commences early Shabbos [if only synagogue in that locale] you are dragged after them, so it is full fledged Shabbos, whereas if a Tzibbur prolongs Shabbos after 3 stars are out, no-one is dragged after them, hence this time cannot qualify for Seudo Shlishis.
As for your question the Goq, absolutely not, otherwise we could solve some of our schduling issues on Shabbos Erev Pesach, and no-one came up with this idea, because Seudo Shenis has to be consumed by daytime.
As to your concern crazybrit, go to an early Hashkomo or/& Vasikin Minjan, have Kiddush & Seudo Shenis by 8 or 9AM, and by lunchtime & Chatzos/Mincho Gedolo, consume Seudo Shlishis with hearty apetite. & for another suggestion, keep a box of Matzos in your Shoule’s social hall, so next time you attend a Kiddush there, have a piece of Matzo transforming the Kiddush into Seudo Shenis, and lunch at home will be your Seudo Shelishis with a hearty apetite.
thank you 147 for addressing my query.
147: Part of that won’t help depending on where you live and the time of year as Many Poskim hold that Seudah Shilishis has to be after Chatzos.
If one takes in Shabbat early it is correct lechatchila to continue the meal until night as some poskim require this (Mishna Berura 267:5 and see Pri Megiddim 47:1 that that means after tzet hakokavim).
in satmar the rebbe washes like 10 minutes before the zman rabenu tamm because they also daven mincha at that time
I (nor anyone else, really) can defend what certain Chassidim do with Zmanim. It certainly isn’t anything that should be relied upon for someone who does not have a strong Minhag to do it (and even then there is very little Halachic defense for it).
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