December 8, 2010 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #717893
Considering Gerogia’s Wig has clarified this entire situation with their above quoted comment, this entire discussion is moot and everyone who doubted this Yiddisha couple by publicly denouncing them ought to start begging them for mechila if they want their Olam Habo back!!December 8, 2010 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #717894
To: Aishes Chayil…
I thought I was the only one that noticed that. She DID in fact say she owned just ONE full Sheitel and one fall. The judge asked her if what she was wearing was the fall, and she replied NO, it was the sheitel.
So, if so what was the destroyed mop sitting on the judge’s bench???
The judge let that remark slide at that moment, but I think it was DAVKA that remark that made her sense something was not kosher with her claim, and why, at the last moment she took a recess and went to call Georgie.
I think these people NEVER imagined she would do that.December 8, 2010 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #717895seeallsidesParticipant
I am shocked that this video was posted – and that we are allowing everyone a field day with their comments. Regardless of our opinion of what happened here, posting and commenting about two people in klal yisroel is scary stuff. I understand that by the couple going public with their complaint, there is a certain amount of relaxed feeling that we are not participating in the publication, but it is not true. Television is not our haimishe oilem forum, and Yeshiva World is. I am no expert, but to me this is lashon harah and motzei shem rah.December 8, 2010 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #717898Dave HirschParticipant
I really tried being Dan Lekaf Zchus but it’s nearly impossible.
While I do agree with the couple that it was a misunderstanding (I won’t accuse them of making this whole thing up), I agree with the defendants that the girl speaks a comprehensible english. Thus, making the language barrier an issue is disgusting and horrible. When a wig of 3K is at stake you don’t rely on sign language.
Additionally, did you realize how the woman suggests that they immediately ran over (as the judge wanted to know) while the husband sort of cut her off and contradicted her tale?
Notice how she only has one good wig (which she was wearing at the time) and a fall (which wasn’t in question), yet had another one that was washed. You can say that her confusion and stuttering came from appearing on national TV or appearing before a judge, but it doesn’t seem likely for someone that agreed to appear on the show.
It seems quite interesting and weird for the woman to make a claim that a mid-range wig costs $3,000 (as she muttered under her breath without confidence). While it’s true that a non-Jewish judge won’t know that much about wigs but it can be easily verified.
I highly doubt that a long wig washed in a washing machine (not dry cleaners) would shrink, it might tangle but not become short, especially when the net doesn’t appear to have shrunk.
I am horrified at their claim that Georgie was in France at that time. Regardless of how they had that information, Georgie is a company and its employees might very well know the inventory, sales history and products better than its respective owners.
For some reason, the facial expressions all along gave me the instinct that the couple was lying while the Hispanic girl was saying the truth. While the latter had a face of sincerity and a story that made sense, the plaintiff’s story had many flaws. I had the feeling all along that the couple was lying (and I believe that the judge felt the same) but I didn’t know it was that bad.
I will give them the benefit of doubt that there was some sort of misunderstanding originally (my guess is that she didn’t realize the wig was missing till much later. She, therefore, misunderstood that woman and told her to wash it. After she discovered she attempted to retrieve it only to learn that it was too late). The cleaners still had no business washing the wig. The couple realized that they don’t have the receipt so they replaced it with another one (that was purchased at Georgie’s in May for 3K. They figured that it wouldn’t be bad to get more than the original cost of the wig. However,a this is perjury and on national TV!
BOTTOM LINE: It’s utterly embarrassing and humiliating. This couple caused a huge Chillul Hashem and tainted us on national TV! There’s no reason to defend them. They are the rotten apples from within us. Shame on Mendy and Heidi! As to their last name, for many watching the show it was Orthodox-Jew.December 8, 2010 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #717899cantoresqMember
I just want to clarify one thing regarding allegations that Judge Millian overstepped her authority in calling the wig manufacturer. While dressed as a courtroom with a “bailiff” etc, this is not a court of law. It’s an arbitration, to which all parties have consented. Judge Millian, although referred as a judge is actually an arbitrator. She is not bound by any rules or code of judicial conduct. As opposed to judges who are bound to consider a case solely on the evidence presented, arbitrators are at liberty to conduct their own investigations, and they frequently do. (Any one who has experience with Beth Din knows just how far arbitrators might go in this regard) As such Judge Millian was completely within her rights to call the wig manufacturer. Moreover, an arbitrator is not even bound by the law in making a decision. All an arbitrator need do is apply equity as s/he deems fit. absent any proof of collusion or corruption, rulings, if they contradict the law, are binding.December 8, 2010 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #717900
Its unbelievable that some people here have forfeited their chelek in olam habo.December 8, 2010 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #717901tzippiMember
Hey mods, thanks.
And kudos. (You know who you are.)December 8, 2010 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #717902
Its unbelievable that some people here have forfeited their chelek in olam habo.
Some of us determined that we had no chelek long ago for issues unrelated.
In any event, if the standard for the loss of a chelek in Olam Habah is telling LH without asking mechila, then just about everyone on earth lost theirs a long time ago.
The WolfDecember 8, 2010 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #717904useurbarinMember
A few questions. Firstly, she says she has two shaitels one fall and one full wig. The first thing that came to my mind was what is that she is wearing on her head at the actual court case? Secondly, for all those who are asking how did she call Georgi wigs or how did she know this and that its really very simple. If you would notice in the beginning of the video that the husband pulled out a bunch of papers so obviously one of those papers would be the receipt fro Georgi with a phone number that would be submitted to the judge for review as well. Lastly, for all those who are questioning whether they were lying or not, one can tell so clearly that they were busted just by watching their reactions at the end of the video when the guy outside the court room asks them did that really just happen? They have no excuses left for themselves.December 8, 2010 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #717905cherrybimParticipant
Aishes Chayil – “There is no way that frum couple were imposters.”
They are imposters; giving the impression that they were frum yiden. He should have taken his yarmalke off before doing his thing in front of millions of people.December 8, 2010 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #717906squeakParticipant
He means not giving the couple the “benefit of the doubt”. If there is doubt, that is.December 8, 2010 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #717907
In any event, if the standard for the loss of a chelek in Olam Habah is telling LH without asking mechila, then just about everyone on earth lost theirs a long time ago.
I just want to make clear that with that statement I am NOT minimizing the sin of Lashon HaRah or discounting the damage it can do… but I am pointing out that if that’s the standard for Olam HaBah, then Olam HaBah is going to be a very sparsely populated place.
The WolfDecember 8, 2010 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #717908
I also want to make something very clear. Judge Millan is in fact a judge and once you step away from the bench you do not lose that title, you keep it whether you are presiding as a judge or an arbitrator. In this case even though her purpose is an arbitrator and that is what all parties have agreed to, she in fact is ruling as a judge and following the laws of the state and the city, which is her job, her right and prerogative as the arbitrator.
As I stated before, she caught something early on which many of you seemed not to and that was the fact that Heidi adamantly stated that she owned only two pieces one wig and one fall. But she kept referring to the ruined piece as a “wig”. That in itself sent up some red flags. The fact that she would bring in only one receipt and not “all” the receipts was also a give-away. If you are coming to court, you come prepared. “Look your honor, a wig costs this much, a fall costs this much, etc.” After all, you are teaching the judge something she would otherwise have no knowledge about. And since you are on TV you are teaching thousands of people as well. Why should anyone believe you at your word. In addition, wouldn’t you want to look your best not only in appearance? Wouldn’t you want to show your smarts as a Jew? Why didn’t they bring in proof from a professional that the wig was ruined? After all they were relating their story to thousands of people.
To Bob, Any Rav would recognize the validity of the LAW and would see right through this couple’s story. It would not stand up in a beis din either. The judge did everything appropriate and a Rav would have asked the same questions. That is why the RAV would have stood by the Judge’s decision. To remark that a Rav would not stand by a goyish Judge’s decision against a Jew is foolhardy and disrespectful to any honest and respectable Rav. Why should a Rav trust a fellow Jew who lied and tried to cheat honest people out of money because of a mistake they made. And Jews who chose to go on TV because they wanted their 15 minutes of fame. Maybe you should reconsider that.December 8, 2010 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #717909
‘In any event, if the standard for the loss of a chelek in Olam Habah is telling LH without asking mechila, then just about everyone on earth lost theirs a long time ago.
Not to mention that most of those cases have indeed NO toeles whatsoever, whereas in this case, it does!December 8, 2010 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #717910mikehall12382Member
It can’t be real, no Frum Yid would ever lie, the whole thing is made up, not real, impossible!!! Actually, lets bury our head in the sand and protect them like some do with child molesters in “our” community…And you all know of whom I speak!December 8, 2010 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #717911BrokerParticipant
I’m surprised that not one poster mentioned that the Chillul Hashem started when they got on National Television exploiting that our women spend 3 grand on wigs, when there are people homeless and starving!December 8, 2010 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #717912dontbeagolemMember
we live in a very small shtetel called Brooklyn and as such it is reasonable to assume that many know this couple .. therefore:
a. has any body asked them for a plausible explanation as to the discrepancy between the receipt for a long hair wig and the shmate they claimed it represents – as shown on TV
b. If in fact it is Georgi wig .. can they produce an official statement on Georgi stationary attesting to that fact
Failure to give a plausible explanation ALONG with an official Georgi statement exonerating the couple will serve to officially brand the couple as LOW LIFE SCAMMERS that created a global chilul hashem.December 8, 2010 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #717913
This couple went public and they put themselves in a public forum. I would not have posted their video but since it was posted and it was asked what we thought about it I guess they themselves made themselves fair game for comment especially because it was a foolish thing they did and especially because they lied. It was not an important issue like for instance molestation that would help other victims, it wasn’t important to go public to warn others. They went public for their own selfish reasons and by doing so made themselves a target for ridicule and discussion.
They are going to be a lesson for others about what not to do and how not to make a chilul hashem.December 8, 2010 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #717914apushatayidParticipant
“whereas in this case, it does!”
What is the toeles in repeating this story?December 8, 2010 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #717915☕️coffee addictParticipant
for some reason these people didn’t look kosher from the startDecember 8, 2010 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #717916cantoresqMember
I’ve just been told, on good word, that Georgie Wigs has commented on this incident as follows:
Where might one find this comment?December 8, 2010 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #717918
The toeles in repeating this story is very obvious;
DON’T TRY AND SCAM OTHERS, ESPECIALLY NOT WITH ITEMS WHICH WE USE FOR RELIGIOUS PURPOSES AS BAIT!!!!
DON’T GET UP IN PUBLIC AND GIVE YOUR RELIGION A BAD NAME!!!
TRY TO MAKE A KIDDUSH HASHEM AND NOT A CHILLUL HASHEM, WHEREVER YOU GO AND WHATEVER YOU Do!!!!
The fact that this story got out disgusts everyone enough to think very carefully next time their Yetzer Hora tells them to violate our basic prin,ciples….
Satisfied???December 8, 2010 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #717919Feif UnParticipant
I once read (I believe it was in the Living the Parshah sefer by R’ Shimon Finkelman) that we need to prevent an appearance of chillul Hashem, even when we do nothing wrong. He gives the following example:
A man is in the grocery store, waiting on line. The line is somewhat long, and he has a full cart. The express lane (10 items or less) next to him is empty, and the cashier there says to him, “I’m empty, even though you have a full cart, come to my register and I’ll check you out.”
The man goes to the lane. A minute later, someone with 2 items comes over, and now has to wait in line for someone with a full cart at the express lane. Did the man do anything wrong? No, he was following the instructions of the employee. However, it creates an appearance of something wrong, and can cause a chillul Hashem, which is wrong. R’ Finkelman suggests that the person should have turned to the guy with 2 items, apologized, and explained what happened, to avoid the chillul Hashem.
Going on the TV show can easily create an appearance of a chillul Hashem. Whether they’re right or wrong, whether they lied or not, doesn’t matter. Going on the show created a chillul Hashem.December 8, 2010 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #717921
I heard it from a spouse of an employee. But since you asked, I called Georgie Wigs directly at their listed number and they’ve told me directly. In a nutshell Georgie said that Ms. Milian from the People’s Court has lied on the show. The ruined wig was a $3,000 Georgie wig. Feel free to call them yourself.
At this point, everyone who fingered the frum couple owes them a tremendous apology. I would like to see those posters retract the libel they’ve posted here against the couple.December 8, 2010 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #717922
Even if the benefit of learning of another’s humiliation in order to discourage potential future dishonesty outweighs the real and now damage caused by spreading the story, it should be done while leaving out the identities of the couple involved. Spreading the video seems equivalent to “naming names” when there is no toeles to do so, since somebody viewing it is bound to know the family involved.December 8, 2010 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #717923
Why would Georgy tell you this directly?
And if you had that influence on them, why don’t you ask that they
send a letter to YW and have it endorsed by a few reputable rabonim?December 8, 2010 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #717924
With all due respect, this couple humiliated themselves when they ‘aired out their dirty laundry’ (dont mind the pun) on national television.
Once that happened they made themselves fodder for this whole discussion.December 8, 2010 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #717925
They told me because I called them and asked.
Why others don’t pickup the phone and investigate rather than spreading malicious lies about a frum couple is beyond me.December 8, 2010 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #717926
I think i can speak for everyone when I say that we would like nothing more than to prove this couple innocent.
Its really simple for Georgy to clarrify this by sending a letter to any frum organization on this couples’ behalf.
Please, ask them…December 8, 2010 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #717927
I highly doubt that anyone at Geogie would tell you anything and if they did why would they tell you the truth? It would be a very simple thing for Heidi to have told the judge and even the interviewer, “look right here inside the wig it says “Georgie”! so here is the proof that it is a Georgie wig!
Whoever you claim that you spoke to, and I am not saying that YOU are lying, but whomever you claim you spoke to might have received many phone calls and is tired of being accused of helping to “hurt” this couple so they are saying that the Judge lied.
Now lets look at this objectively. What reason would the judge have to lie about this? She was actually siding with the couple and was very upset that the laundress washed the wig. She felt it was very stupid of them to do so. So why would she change her mind about it, unless she actually phoned Georgie because of the receipt and was given a reason to change her mind? What you are saying is totally illogical. The judge did not have a horse in the race and did not gain anything one way or the other. However, if I remember correctly both parties do get paid to appear on TV whether they win or lose. So even though the couple lost, they stayed calm with the judgment because they knew they were wrong and they made something on the appearance anyway.December 8, 2010 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #717928
Heres the Real Story:
The couple mistakenly had the wig laundered at the laundromat. They never authorized it knowingly. When the wig was returned to them, it was badly damaged in the spin cycle of a commercial grade washing machine, as would be expected. As a shaitel wearer for many years, I would expect a long haired shaitel to look like a nest once it got laundered in the machine. There is no repair for such a wig. It is a total loss.
For the judge to ACCUSE them of attempting to pass a cheap wig off as a $3000 wig, I believe is completely unwarranted. Judge Milian claims to have called “Georgie” and read of the serial number to a secretary who informed her that they dont sell that. I have many wigs and they have many tags and numbers in them. I dont believe that manufacturer can conclusively label every serial number in each wig. Also, a $3000 wig is a custom made piece specifically made for a specific person’s head. “they dont carry that line” makes no sense in this case. There is no “line” when it comes to a 100% custom order.
Also, for those of you who claim that she bought a new wig to get a receipt to prove to the judge the price, that is completely obsurd. SInce the receipt says the purchase happened in May, then the laundromat error mustve happend at a later time than the purchase. Also when “georgies” secretary said that this woman has recently purchased a long wig from them, she was probably referred to the wig that was on her head that she purchased to replace the one that got ruined. That receipt would have to be dated at a date after the laundromat fiasco.
So for all you people that are so ready to accuse these people of trying to win a quick buck, you need to do some serious sould searching. Just Saying.December 8, 2010 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #717929
There was no mention of a serial number. There was no identification tag that identified it as a Georgie wig.December 8, 2010 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #717931
Georgie’s doesn’t owe us anything. They were nice enough to state the couple were correct and truthful. If you have any doubts, their phone number is listed in the Verizon White Pages, in the book and online. Instead of continuing to spread false rumors about Jews in favor on non-Jews, VERIFY THE FACTS with a 2 minute phone call.
It’s even a local call if you are in the 5 boroughs! Otherwise I can pay you back the 25 cents for the call.December 8, 2010 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #717932
I don’t buy it.
I am NOT, chalila, saying YOU are lying, but this just doesn’t make sense.
How could anyone from Georgie have told the judge, based on the description of it after the churban, that the wig IS a Georgie wig??? (From the tag inside it, it IS possible they could say that it is NOT a Georgie wig.) EVEN assuming the people at Georgie did say what you say they said, maybe THEY have some motive for saying that now.
The judge seemed perfectly content, at first, to make some peshara, being that there seemed to be fault on both sides.
Then, (and I think it was because of the woman’s statement that she only owned ONE full wig, the ONE she was wearing!) the judge sensed something stank about their claim and made the call to the sheitel-macher.
I DO know that if it was ME that was called a liar when I was telling the truth, I would LOUDLY insist that I was NOT a liar, and that the judge had gotten incorrect information, and I would like for us to call Georgie back TOGETHER. I would NOT have backed down and remained basically silent as those two did.December 8, 2010 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #717934apushatayidParticipant
Aishes chayil. You can learn those lessons from halacha and mussar seforim. There is no need to repeat this story ad naseum. Seems to me people just like to yenta and pull out of their back pocket the “toeles” hetter. Why dont you call the Shemiras Halashon Shayla hotline and ask them if you are allowed to continue to comment on this story and get back to us. No, I did not call them, and no I am not an expert in hilchos lashon hara. As a talmid if Chofetz Chaim I use the “nit shein” test. If it is “nit shein” I dont do it, talk about it or listen to it regardless of your toeles heter.December 8, 2010 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #717935
Milian said that she listed on the number to the person who answered the phone.December 8, 2010 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #717936
MAKE THE PHONE CALL INSTEAD OF ACCUSING FRUM PEOPLE.December 8, 2010 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #717937
You wrote… “they dont carry that line” makes no sense in this case. There is no “line” when it comes to a 100% custom order.”
Yes, there may NOT be a “line” for a custom ordered shaitel. That is exactly the point. There WAS some kind of label in the wig that indicated it was NOT a custom wig, and was NOT something Georgie would carry.
You also wrote… “when “georgies” secretary said that this woman has recently purchased a long wig from them, she was probably referred to the wig that was on her head that she purchased to replace the one that got ruined.”
Who EVER said she bought the wig she was wearing to replace that ruined wig??? Even she did NOT say that. If that was indeed the case, it would have been the logical thing for her to say in response to the judge. The fact that she did NOT say that strongly indicates that that was NOT the situation.December 8, 2010 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #717938
Sorry to dissappoint you but TOELES indeed DOES allow for you to talk.
In fact, its brought down that if someone did something personal to you that really really hurts you, and talking abou it will comfort you, you are permitted.December 8, 2010 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #717939
Why are some people afraid of the truth? If Georgie verified the damaged shaitel was from her, this issue is 100% resolved. The Yidden are saying the Emes and the fake judge and the Chinaman cleaners are certifiable liars.December 8, 2010 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #717940
I think your mistaken.
Georgys is a frum company.
They certainly have an obligation to clear the reputation of a couple who as you say, are being unfairly, verbally abused.
If they can stop the posters from senseless drivel, they should leave no stone unturned!December 8, 2010 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #717941
So if someone makes themselves “fodder”, does that give us the right to spread L”H about them without even attempting to shield them from further shame? No mercy?
I can see a possible toeles in mentioning the story –without names– in a discussion of avoiding chillul Hashem. But once the video comes into play, things quickly go from a toeles discussion to “let ’em have it for embarrassing US!” Also in play is the fact that the video is going “viral.”
To summarize my position, I am not opposed to a discussion of “Jews going on court TV to settle a claim, chillul Hashem?”, but I am opposed to spreading the video.December 8, 2010 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #717942
EDITED In my opinion (and the mods are free to decide) this is a closed issue
The Mods are free to decide….we are just sick of the multiple usernames quite-franklyDecember 8, 2010 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #717944wanderingchanaParticipant
“Chinamen”? I believe the cleaners are Mexican/Latino, not asian.December 8, 2010 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #717945
Please consider the possibility that some people can be shocked into silence and not know what to say.December 8, 2010 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #717946
IF YOU WATCH THE CLIP, YOU WILL SEE THAT THE JUDGE REFERED TO SOME NUMBERS ON A TAG. THERES NO WAY FOR HER TO DETEMINE WHETHER IS WAS A CUSTOM PIECE.December 8, 2010 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #717947
Actually, there are 3 people responsible for the aveirah of LH.
The people who cause it amongst them. So the fact that they went out in public makes their violation even greater.
Again , if you read my previous post, I point out that we were once told in a shemiras Haloshon shiur, that if someone does something which hurts you badly, and talin g it out will make you feel better, its allowed. Please check it out as I stand to be corrected.December 8, 2010 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #717948TurkeyneckMember
I love all the mussar about being dan l’kaf zechus.
I run a mossod hatorah and I see ALL the time how much dan lekaf chova there is among us, especially among the “gorr frumeh”.
I’ve had parents decide not to enroll their child with us because they “didn’t like the boots they noticed a different girl wore to her interview”!
That’s all it took, a pair of boots!
1) They could have been borrowed.
2) The girl may not have realized what those boots symbolized. (I have six frum sisters and six frum daughters so I know a little about girls clothes, and they weren’t anything geferlach.)
3) Maybe the girl won’t even come to the mossod. (She actually did, was a very fine girl, and married a ben torah who is now learning for his 4th year in EY, in very poor financial ci
And this is just one little example I’m choosing because it’s easy to write it down.
We are constantly making judgments about our fellow Yidden, and I agree, in most cases, we don’t give the benefit of the doubt, and we don’t try to explain their behavior in a forgiving sort of way.
But this case?
A couple who went on TV? And lied? Berabbim? With a Yarmulke on his head? And her giving a speech about covering the hair?
I don’t envy their lot, I really don’t.
(And don’t tell me the the show is a fake; it’s not and if it would be, it would be a much greater Avlah, because they would then have participated intentionally in perpetuating a massive Chillul Hashem.
I say, don’t accuse them of that. Be dan l’kaf zechus, they didn’t mean to make a chillul hashem, they only meant to steal a little.
The chillul hashem was an accident!December 8, 2010 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #717950jewish sourceParticipant
I think they are an aidele couple they need some guidance, but really we all do.
Whats ironic is the judge did not take the wig back to her chambers and in truth what does one thing have to do with another they ruined a shaitel of hers no matter what its irrelevant the technicality.December 8, 2010 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #717951
FWIW, to me, the decision to do this on television is far worse than the alleged fraud.
Listen, we’ve all been tempted in the past and we’ve all done wrong. None of us are tzaddikim gemurim. I can understand (even if I don’t condone) how the couple might have been tempted to get more than they may have deserved. They’re human and subject to the same temptations as the rest of us. Sadly, there are times that each and everyone of us succumbs to that temptation.
But what possessed them to do this on television is utterly beyond me. *That’s* far worse, IMHO. I believe Chazal were wise in their statement that if one is going to sin, he should go somewhere where he won’t be recognized so as to minimize the “bad publicity.”
Had they continued this in small claims court and lost, the worst that would have happened would have been a dismissal and maybe, maybe, a small blurb in the papers the next day — and then it would have been forgotten. This is far, far worse.
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