Shaitle Fraud Chillul Hashem Video: Sha'ar haTumah haChamishim
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December 9, 2010 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #718006msseekerMember
No, I wasn’t trying to insult you ch”v. You’re as naive as the German Jews in 1937. I hope you won’t be disabused of your naivette in a nasty way.December 9, 2010 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #718007
wanderingchana, well if you rarely wear them you would have no reason to buy more. But if you wore them regularly you would know and realize that in most cases they don’t usually last that long, or the styles change, etc. By 10 or 13 years, you usually add on or have a larger collection. That’s all I’m saying.December 9, 2010 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #718008arcParticipant
msseeker you’re paranoid. this couple were liars and were treated as suchDecember 9, 2010 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #718009WolfishMusingsParticipant
You’re as naive as the German Jews in 1937
Oh, please… I invoke Godwin. Comparing the situation today to that in Germany in 1937*.
* I’m certainly aware that anything can happen in the future — but to compare the *present* reality to Germany in 1937 is just ludicrous.December 9, 2010 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #718010
“Also, I was wondering how many women who are married for 10 years own only 1 wig and 1 fall?”
My wife. She doesn’t own a fall either.December 9, 2010 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #718011
This will only gain additional attention if people keep on talking about it. If you google non jewish blogs, especially those that follow hair, or the peoples court, the one liners and anti “religious jew” sentiment died down after a few days. Drop it and it will become yesterdays news. I think deep down people just want to find out the names of these people to satisfy the yenta in them.
Really, enough is enough. I wish the moderators would stop all further discussion.December 9, 2010 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #718012
You talk about dan lecaff zechus. Maybe you should excercis that concept here and stop accusing people of taking part in this discussion for the wrong purposes.
Frankly, I dont want to kn ow who they are!
I know you mean well, but please be consistent with your principlesDecember 9, 2010 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #718013
apushatayid: Thank you!
I am literally sick to the stomach reading these armchair analysts above ripping their fellow Jew up to the core with tipshish analyization if she really owns 1 wig, 2 wigs, or her facial expressions in their pathetic attempts to find her guilty. She is as innocent as anyone, and all you analysts will be having to give din v’cheshbon for your condemnations.
Remember on Yom Kippur if you want G-d to judge you like you’ve judged her.December 9, 2010 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #718014artchillParticipant
As we sit here downplaying the impact of these two idiots, the YouTube episode has over 100,000 hits.
The way Mendy responded to the reporter following the arbitration agreement showed to all the disregard he had about filing a false claim against a hard working couple who is only guilty of being a non-Jew. He likely forgot that only in a bais din can the arbitration panel say that the testimony of a lady is invalid. He should have realized that his lie would be exposed and the chillul hashem that will result.
Shame on him.December 9, 2010 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #718015Dave HirschParticipant
Even if someone called Georgie and confirmed it (which I don’t believe – every company places a label) with them, the story stinks. A mid-range Georgie doesn’t cost 3K. It’s nearly impossible that this chic woman should only have one wig ten years after her marriage (and look at how she stumbles). They forgot (or had slightly different accounts) what had happened after the phone call with the cleaners (she said they ran down there). They lied about her language abilities (she spoke English quite well and why in the world would she speak Spanish?). They brought a false receipt (Georgie’s can’t answer the date question if she bought two wigs at their place – look at her response and see it for yourself). They made absolutely no attempt to answer her charge neither for the judge nor for the interviewer, and, yes, appearance and facial expressions speaks volumes!
We should denounce this couple for using the facade of Orthodox-Jews and tarnishing our image. There’s no reason to defend them. They ruined it for us. We lost our credibility for some time now. If they want to defend themselves, let them come out in the open with a sensible explanation or apology.December 9, 2010 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #718017msseekerMember
Arc, thanks for your free psychoanalysis and for reminding me why it’s such a waste of time to post anything here. I was comparing Wolf’s NAIVETTE to that of German Jewry in 1937, not the events of course. Get that? Wolf doesn’t realize that an anti-frum show (or book etc.) will sell like hot bagels, no matter the content, quality, or integrity, and I expressed my hopes that his naivette doesn’t evaporate by seeing this “court case” turn into a blockbuster ch”v.December 9, 2010 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #718018
The Rov – “someone called Georgie and spoke to them and was told it was from them. Why would you believe that Yid who spoke to them directly, over a shiksa on the show out to make ratings?”
The judge has a chezkas kashrus in this case because she has a lot to lose by lying, whereas your “someone” is only a virtual individual; it could even be a goy, and you or I can be goyim too. So certainly we are not believed over a judge who could lose millions if found to be lying.
Why are you so antagonistic toward the judge; because she caught yiden in a lie? We should kiss her feet if this incident will keep some yiden honest in the future.December 9, 2010 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #718019
cherry: Your chezkas kashrus assumptions are misplaced. You make money for lying on TV, not lose it.December 9, 2010 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #718020bombmaniacParticipant
by the way…about how the employee would know about the wig…there was a receipt which presumably has a receipt number which presumably is kept on record.December 9, 2010 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #718021
AC. I said nothing about dan lekaf zechus. you must be confusing me with aposhiteryid, or apushiteryid or some other yid.
Trying my best. I am not stating “guilty” or “not guilty”. All I am saying is that those who are wringing their hands in despair over this chillul hashem, should realize that the more they talk about this and spread this story, more people will hear about it and further discuss it. That the youtube clip is approaching 100k hits is not surprising given the number of frum people that have probably viewed it. TPC has a youtube page and their shows get hits all the time. There are clips of Judge Milian doing what she does best that have millions of hits. Let it die, it will. Keep fanning the flames, it will pick up a life of its own.December 9, 2010 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #718022JoseMember
Cherrybim,,What does the judge have to lose, she did’nt show any proof and the plaintiffs were sent away and she does not have to see them again. There is no “mirsus”.
I do not see why she has any ne’manus at all. There are those who would give her ne’emanus above the plaintiffs because:
A) She is a non- jew
B) SHe presumably went to college
C) The plaintiffs were wearing a sheitel/black yarmulka.
Which of the above is the reason(s) you insist that the “judge” has more ne’emanus?December 9, 2010 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #718024HealthParticipant
Cherrybim – Judges are just former lawyers, not angels. And lawyers never lie, they just have a different perspective of the truth than the rest of us!December 9, 2010 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #718025
Folks: Why are we debating the “ne’manus” of Judge Millian any more than we are debating the ne’manus of another famous WB character Bugs Bunny?
This quote comes from the Warner Brothers website
“The People’s Court” has been delivering reality television to viewers for over two decades.”December 9, 2010 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #718026WolfishMusingsParticipant
To those who assume that the judge has to be lying (or has no credibility) because she’s not Jewish reminds me of a scene from my favorite movie:
Inigo Montoya: But, I promise I will not kill you until you reach the top.
Man in Black: That’s VERY comforting, but I’m afraid you’ll just have to wait.
Inigo Montoya: I hate waiting. I could give you my word as a Spaniard.
Man in Black: No good. I’ve known too many Spaniards.
The WolfDecember 9, 2010 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #718027HomeownerMember
apushatayid, I disagree. Your view is that everyone should keep quiet. Sadly, that is the shame of our community. When a frum Jew is caught red-handed doing something wrong there should be 500 posts here proclaiming “Chilul Hashem!”
Instead, there is post after post of excuses.
These people hurt everyone who looks like them and actually follows what they should have followed, the Torah.
They are a disgrace.December 9, 2010 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #71802810-LuchosParticipant
Lets officially welcome back myfriend the very helpful and so right JoseDecember 9, 2010 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #718029arcParticipant
ha!December 9, 2010 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #718030
Homeowner. Did I say everyone should keep quiet, or did I address a specific group of people?
Please reread my words, pasted here for you.
All I am saying is that those who are wringing their hands in despair over this chillul hashem, should realize that the more they talk about this and spread this story, more people will hear about it and further discuss it.December 9, 2010 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #718031
10 Luchos?December 9, 2010 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #718032
But the judge called their bluff because the judge was not totally sure herself, and they exposed themselves for what they were; using half truths to attempt to achieve their crooked goals.December 9, 2010 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #718033
“Folks: Why are we debating the “ne’manus” of Judge Millian any more than we are debating the ne’manus of another famous WB character
Well said, apushutayid.
WolfishMusings, The problem is that there are people who wear a yarlmulka, that have a knee-jerk reaction assuming when someone else with a yarmulka is in trouble or in conflict, that the yarmulka person is wrong. Where has anyone here said Milian is not believed because she isn’t Jewish? I have yet to see such a post. That is an assumption on your part of other posters motives. I wonder why you make that assumption. There is also good reason to assume Milian is not to be believed. And the reason, outlined previously, is not becuase she is a gentile.December 9, 2010 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #718034
Re- 10 luchos
That also got my attention…..lol!December 9, 2010 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #718035maahMember
If I wanted to make a play of the wizard of Oz, I see my options of people with no heart is many 🙂
Do you realize you’re debating a silly thing, who cares what happened? If I agree with you, that they were lying will it make you feel better?
If I got you to agree they weren’t, will they get their money?
Debate interesting things, things that make you go hmmmmmDecember 10, 2010 12:34 am at 12:34 am #718036maahMember
Just saw this somewhere else, how smart and true.
To the couple.
This too shall pass!!
Ignore all the comments, better yet don’t even read them.
I for one think the judge was wrong, the cleaners admitted putting the wig in the washer, they had no business doing that.
The only thing the judge should have decided was how much to give you, and if she felt it wasn’t a $3k sheitel let her give you $500.00.
But really who cares what I or others think.
Trust me this will pass, stay strong, and most importantly you look like a nice couple, be happy you have each other!December 10, 2010 1:41 am at 1:41 am #718037deiyezoogerMember
The only chilul hashem is that whenever there is a story like this out there people rush to judge without even knowing the facts or the persons involved.December 10, 2010 1:56 am at 1:56 am #718038
maaaaaaaah – Bonnie and Clyde were also a nice couple.December 10, 2010 2:02 am at 2:02 am #718039
Not too far off, but I wouldn’t go so far as to compare Milian to Bonnie & Clyde. She may be bad, but Milian in no killer.December 10, 2010 2:29 am at 2:29 am #718040Shnorro ParkMember
IF the couple is innocent and that little red mess was indeed a 3k Georgi, why didn’t they say anything? They just had a “oops my mom cought me with a stolen cookie” face and did not even try to say they were innocent, like they were caught and accepted that.. IF that little red mess was indeed a Georgi, why hasn’t there been a claim? Or a public notification?December 10, 2010 2:51 am at 2:51 am #718041
The show producers force them to sign an agreement before the show limiting what they can and cannot say in the interview afterwards, at risk of losing their appearance fee to the show if they violate that agreement. So they cannot criticize or too strongly dispute the “judges” decision – not during the proceedings nor in the interview afterwards.December 10, 2010 3:10 am at 3:10 am #718042
TMB, in all honesty, what should be more important to the Frum couple at that point? Getting the few dollars or clearing their good name?December 10, 2010 3:52 am at 3:52 am #718043
The show would have edited out any comments the couple made that was in violation of their agreement of what they were allowed and not allowed to say. So not only would they lose their appearance fee, they would never have gotten out the truth. In fact, for all we know they very well may have protested – and we didn’t see it due to the producers editing! This is Hollywood, camera, action, not unedited facts and justice.December 10, 2010 4:40 am at 4:40 am #718044
TMB, Not exactly so. There are many people who have come out and said the Judge was wrong and stated their case all over again.December 10, 2010 5:05 am at 5:05 am #718045zeeceeMember
Unfortunately, I was way too quick to judge this couple.
Rabbi Yair Hoffman investigated the case and spoke to the couple. Before any one judges this couple, please make sure you read the other side of the story.December 10, 2010 5:13 am at 5:13 am #718046zeeceeMember
I also copied and pasted the article, if you want to read it here.
New York – They are known as Mendy and Heidi. And they are a couple that is under some pretty intense scrutiny about a televised court-case involving a wig that was washed at a laundromat. Up until now there has only been one side of the story told.
a] pulling some sort of shtick and
b] at the heart of perhaps the greatest Chillul Hashem in 60 years of television history.
c] rather stupidly appearing on court TV
2] The main impetus of the judge was that this wig she was examining looked like a short wig.
3] The judge never asked if there were two receipts, the first for the ruined one and the second for the one Heidi was wearing. The wigmaker told this author that she charged $3000 in total including highlighting, streaking and cutting (still long though) for the first wig. She charged $1500 for the second wig she was wearing which she gave them AT COST because she felt terrible for them.
4] The judge made phone calls to both Georgie companies. She ascertained from company #1 that Heidi did purchase a wig. She spoke to a woman that worked for company #1 named Sylvia. The office was closed and the phone number was forwarded to her cell phone. The judge asked whether what was sold to Heidi was a short wig or long wig. Sylvia answered a long wig. The judge asked for the receipt number. Sylvia answered that the office was closed.
5] The judge then called the other Georgie company (there was a divorce involved here). The other company said that they do not manufacture that type of wig. An email from company #2 is in file with VIN News.
1] The judge clearly confused both companies thinking they are one. Hopefully this was not done maliciously, but was just sloppy work by the judge.
2] The judge, like I did initially, assumed the damaged wig was a short wig. It is not.
3] The couple, actually it was just the husband, made a very silly decision to appear on court TV. He thought that this was the better way to go because at least this way if there was any money awarded it would not come from the landromat but from the court TV. He had to cajole and convince his wife to appear.
4] Neither the husband nor the wife are the best communicators, and neither of them should be hired as press spokespeople.
In short, a grave mistake was made here by the entire Torah community that lashed out at this couple. These are the preliminary conclusions. As mentioned earlier, the matter is being further investigated and all the evidence is being examined. I personally would like to issue an apology to them.
As just an aside, the woman had donated her previous shaitels to a Tzedaka in Eretz Yisroel.
The author can be reached at [email protected]December 10, 2010 5:29 am at 5:29 am #718047
Thank You Rabbi Hoffman!! And thank you zeecee for posting that!!
I rest my case!!December 10, 2010 5:32 am at 5:32 am #718048
Now all the condemners, you may start publicly apologizing here, where you bad-mouthed a Frum couple, and then you can continue by asking personal mechila from them.December 10, 2010 6:17 am at 6:17 am #718049
The silence is deafening. So quick to condemn, yet so long to even apologize.
We should be seeing at least 25 apologies and mechila’s, counting this thread alone.December 10, 2010 6:50 am at 6:50 am #718050
Every single poster who publicly condemned on the internet these frum innocent yidden is personally guilty of character assassination and a whole slew of m’doraysa and m’drabbonim’s mentioned in the Sefer Chofetz Chaim that is extremely difficult to ever atone for.
Even Yom Kippur won’t fix this for you.December 10, 2010 7:23 am at 7:23 am #718051
Thanks for posting the article.
HOWEVER, there are a few logical questions to be asked;
1) Why did Heidi say she had one wig when she had two including the damaged wig?
3) Why did Mendi say he took the wig to three places to see if it could be fixed while also claiming that it was obvious that it could not?
4) How did the Judge get the wrong Gerogie’s number? Presumptively the number she called was on the receipt. How did she get the other number?
6) Why would Sylvia know off the top of her head what kind of Sheitel Heidi bought months before and how much it cost?
7) Even if Georgie sold her 2 wigs, how would Georgie know if the damaged wig was the same wig she sold to Heidi? There could be another wig involved
8) Why did they claim the laundry worker didn’t speak English when her English is passable?
And lastly, why did they insist that Geirgy was in France, what did that prove?
Please, I would LOVE to see this all in the clear.
Can someone get a few COMPETENT RABONIM to endorse this??December 10, 2010 9:01 am at 9:01 am #718054HorrifiedParticipant
i just watched a couple other clips of the peoples court on you tube,
this one about the wig is definatly the most streight forward and normal case the court has seen!
check it out!
in all the other cases the defendent and the plaintiff are total nutters!
zai MatzliachDecember 10, 2010 11:39 am at 11:39 am #718055ImaofthreeParticipant
So happy that the couple has been proven innocent and can now show their face in public. Boruch Hashem!December 10, 2010 11:44 am at 11:44 am #718056Shnorro ParkMember
Of course chacham TMB!December 10, 2010 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #71805710-LuchosParticipant
myfriend now claims to be trying his best Good for him. Nobody likes a quitter!
However, his previous statement about the call to Georgie’s and their reply are much different than those statements of Georgie’s beloning to Yair HoffmanDecember 10, 2010 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #718058foxnews4everMember
let me get this strait
r. hoffman is saying that they had 2 wigs, the 3k one which was ruined and the replacement which cost only 1500
so then they should only have sued for 1500!!! THAT WAS ALL THEY COULD CLAIM THEY LOST!! WHERE DID THEY GET THE 3K FROM????December 10, 2010 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #718059foxnews4everMember
NOT AN ENTIRELY GOOD DEFENSE WHEN YOU BASICALLY SAY “THEY WERE STEALING BUT NOI AS MUCH AS ORIGINALLY THOUGHT”
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