December 29, 2010 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #593840SimpleKindaManParticipant
I love my k9 friends and wanted to know what the chevra of the coffee room felt about owning a dog…… on one hand they are a mans best friend but on the other hand they’re very expensive and maybe i should just give the money to tsidakah…..December 29, 2010 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #1168774arcParticipant
if not for the stigma and my wife I wouldnt mind having one.December 29, 2010 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #1168775Pashuteh YidMember
Ask RuffRuff here, he would be the best one to answer.December 29, 2010 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #1168776smartcookieMember
Perhaps Ruff Ruff should answer this?December 29, 2010 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #1168777
I think unless a person has a medical condition or a farm there is no reason to own a dog. Better to give tzeddakah to feed a child in yeshivah then a dog.December 29, 2010 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #1168778bptParticipant
Walking them on Shabbos is a bit of a problem. And if I remember correctly, you need to wash your hands after touching them, before you make a bracha.
I love dogs too…. from a distanceDecember 29, 2010 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #1168779Trying my bestMember
…a very big distance.December 29, 2010 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #1168780A23Participant
There are frum yidden with dogs. However, ideally, I think frum yidden should not have dogs.December 29, 2010 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #1168781wanderingchanaParticipant
The dogs didn’t bark when we left Mitzrayim…December 29, 2010 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #1168782☕️coffee addictParticipant
The dogs didn’t bark when we left Mitzrayim
correct, and because of this we give dogs treifeh meat (so therefore we had to have owned dogs)
and the gemara says shouldn’t own a kelev Ra mashma could own a kelev tovDecember 29, 2010 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #1168783
You don’t owe money to Tzeddaka, and you don’t empty your coffers to Tzeddaka. It is always simply the cheapest and quickest way to criticize. People even use this silly argument to criticize someone for donating a nice Aron Hakodesh, that they could have given the money to poor people.December 30, 2010 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1168784YW fanParticipant
wanderingchana, your point being…December 30, 2010 12:15 am at 12:15 am #1168785full_of_rageMember
My grandparents had a dog in the 1950’s. The biggest problem they ever had was when she ate the Eiruv Tavshilun !!!!!!!December 30, 2010 1:27 am at 1:27 am #1168786Midwest2Participant
Why not a dog? I know people who have dogs, cats, parrots, etc. Dogs are friendly and fun, and not the halachic complications you think. It’s true that in NY people are down on dogs, but that’s no reason for the rest of us to think that way.
R’ Neuwirth’s sefer Shmirath Shabbath K’Hilchatha talks in detail about how to take care of a dog on Shabbos. I had a dog myself once and asked that shailah about a brachah. My rav thought it was OK. Evidently some others don’t. When in doubt ask your own rav, don’t take any second-hand prejudice that drifted in from the Promised Land of Brooklyn. If you like dogs, by all means have one. And the smile it will put on your face will help you be mekayem “sever ponim yafos.”December 30, 2010 4:21 am at 4:21 am #1168787
I have to put in a positive word about dog ownership.
Through the machinations of an uncle who thought of himself as a shadchan for people and animals, we got a dog when I was 14 years old. To my surprise, she changed the course of my life, from one that was headed to bitterness and anger, to a kinder gentler life, mostly due to what I learned from her, and the behavior she encouraged in me. Without her, my life would have taken a much different course.
She showed gratitude, generosity, kindness, loyalty, enthusiasm, friendship and affection to me, and rewarded the same attributes in me, paying more attention to my learning these than any human could. She was an excellent listener. I’m not sure I would have gotten through my teenage years without her.December 30, 2010 7:39 am at 7:39 am #1168788Aishes ChayilParticipant
I am literally PETRIFIED of dogs.
It seems to be a Jewish sickness. Not surprising though as when we see a dog that seems to bother us, we say ‘L’chol Bnei Yisroel…..or ‘hint hint…December 30, 2010 8:08 am at 8:08 am #1168789ZachKessinMember
We don’t have one, just because the work involved with keeping a dog would be a bit too much for us (we do have a kitten)
That being said, if we had the resources I think we would get a dog. A pet can be a good way to teach kids responsibility, and a dog can make a nice addition to a family.
Of course I have always been one who doesn’t care much what other people think.December 30, 2010 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1168790ZachKessinMember
Oh and Aishes Chayil, Sorry to hear about your fear of dogs.
if you want to get over your fear of dogs maybe start with very small dogs (Something like a yorkie or a pug)December 30, 2010 9:13 am at 9:13 am #1168791
Having any pet, whether a dog or a hamster- it doesn’t matter, is very helpful to families. It teaches children responsibility: feed it, change cage/walk it ect. It also teaches people of all ages how to give unconditionally. What does a pet do- all it does is give back love. (Ok, dogs can protect against home invaders too) Its like a child in a way. There are many reasons why someone should adopt a dog ( and from a shelter, not a breeder).
Is there anything inherently wrong with having a dog? Just because you personally don’t like them is not a reason for others not to have one. If halachos are written about it, and none say “Thou shalt not own a dog” (with meforshim adding- all creatures unless thou liveth on a farm or needs such creatures for living tasks), it seems that pets, and specifically dogs, are ok!
And if you live outside of (crazy/self-centered) brooklyn, odds are you have more than a 2×2 yard and can let your dog run around there!December 30, 2010 9:14 am at 9:14 am #1168792
I did not mean that instead of paying whatever it costs to maintain a dog a person should take on the huge financial responsibility of sending a boy to yeshivah.
What I meant was that instead of wasting money on a dog put that same money towards a good use.
You might argue that dogs are fun etc. To this I offer what Rav Gamliel Rabinowitz of Yerushalayim said to me:
We weren’t put on this world to eat pizza.December 30, 2010 9:16 am at 9:16 am #1168793
Oh, and the “tzeddekah” idea mentioned here leaves a lot to ponder on. Should you not buy new yom tov clothes because a poor person needs that money? Should you not eat fleish or chicken in the week because a poor person can’t?
You are required to give 10% of your earnings to tzeddekah and forbidden to give more than 20%. So you can use the rest for what you want/need.
Ruff Ruff said it nicely- “You don’t owe money to Tzeddaka, and you don’t empty your coffers to Tzeddaka. It is always simply the cheapest and quickest way to criticize.”December 30, 2010 10:05 am at 10:05 am #1168794yeshivaguy1Participant
I had a dog last year. Unfortunately, my rabbi wouldn’t let us keep him in our dira so we had to have bochrim from a different dira take care of him. When they left they gave the dog away. I happen to love dogs (cats on the other hand are annoying- they scratch)December 30, 2010 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #1168795mamashtakahMember
I grew up with a dog as a kid. We acquired one six years ago, and we are very happy. She’s a great dog, and I couldn’t be happier that we’ve had one. The kids lover her to pieces.December 30, 2010 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #1168796SJSinNYCMember
A lot of my family, neighbors and friends have dogs. I think they are wonderful and help teach kids lots of responsibility.
That being said, I’m not responsible enough to keep a dog 🙂December 30, 2010 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #1168797mikehall12382Member
My Ortho Rabbi said it was OK to have a dog. Although there is some considerations regarding Halacha and shabbos all in all it’s not as big a deal as many think. I had a dog growing up and I can’t wait to get one for my kids. I believe it will be a welcomed addition to our household and I know for a fact I won’t be the only ortho Yid in town with one. Yes, I know I am Modern othro, but believe it or not we still follow Halacha, despite what many think.December 30, 2010 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #1168798
I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying that “if halacha is not against it- it must be 100% ok!”.
-For one thing, I don’t think the initial question was al pi halacha.
-For another, just because something is allowed according to halacha doesn’t mean it should be done. For instance tzitzis is not required if you don’t have a four cornered garment on, who among us doesn’t go l’fnim mishuras hadin in order to do MORE than is required of us by wearing four cornered garments?
-Lastly (and I’m not saying that this does or does not apply here), there is something called a menuval birshus hatorah. So even if someone follows every single halacha they can still be doing the ‘wrong’ thing.
So let’s put things into perspective here and stop getting defensive every time we talk about something that is not practiced among most charedi communities.December 30, 2010 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #1168799kgh5771Participant
Please be careful not get a dog if you live near any Holocaust survivors. They are terribly afraid of dogs because they were used in the camps and ghettos for control. Even if you want a smaller, tamer dog, the fear is still there for the survivors and it would be unfair to mentally torture them.December 30, 2010 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #1168800not IMember
How much do dogs cost these days?
I recall a few thousand, no?December 30, 2010 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #1168801SJSinNYCMember
So let’s put things into perspective here and stop getting defensive every time we talk about something that is not practiced among most charedi communities.
It seems that you are the one being defensive on this thread.
L’halacha, its ok according to many poskim to own dogs.
Then it comes down to personal feelings (as the OP was asking for).
Personally, if you think you don’t want to own a dog, great, say so. I’m not sure why you think anyone else is getting defensive.December 30, 2010 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1168802
I had already acknowledged that the opening post was not speaking l’halacha and was only asking either hashkafically or from personal feelings. I suggested my feelings on this subject and it seemed to me I was shot by two separate posters. I understood their accusatory posts as a way of aggressively defending their feelings on the subject as I had not said anything besides my own opinion on the topic.December 30, 2010 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1168803dunnoMember
I’m with you on that. I’m also PETRIFIED and will cross the street if I see a dog.December 30, 2010 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #1168804
dear Not1, you can get a dog at the pound for under $100 with all the shots and medical necessities already done.
if you want a fancy purebred dog, you can spend many thousands, but I think that is not necessary.December 30, 2010 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #1168805
dogs are one of the extremely few creatures on earth who seek out and like human company.December 30, 2010 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1168806well meaning busy bodyMember
Here is the way it is in the Ramabn V’Yikra 19:2 who coined that expression ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????.
If you quote be accurate
BTW Did you check the RMB”N to see if it is even remotely similar?December 31, 2010 1:56 am at 1:56 am #1168807zaidy78Participant
The gemara in Gittin (I think) says that a person who raises a dog is possul li’eidus. Of course that could mean raising dogs as a business. I learned it many years ago, so I may be VERY off.December 31, 2010 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1168808WolfishMusingsParticipant
FWIW, I grew up with two dogs — a cocker spaniel and a dachshund. Were it not for the fact that several of my sister’s family members are highly allergic, we would have a dog now.
Instead, we have hamsters. In fact, right now I’m watching my hamster as he stands on top of his wheel.
But then again, being a canine myself, I guess some people that I should not have myself in my house.
The WolfDecember 31, 2010 5:29 am at 5:29 am #1168809
there are some anthropologists who believe that without the domestication and partnership of the dog, agriculture would not have been possible. Sheep & goat herding would not have been possible. Cities and civilization would not have evolved differently or not at all.
In addition to being man’s best friend, the dog may be man’s greatest civilizing influence.December 31, 2010 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1168810mikehall12382Member
Who let the dogs out who who….December 31, 2010 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #1168811
the dog may be man’s greatest civilizing influence.
there are some anthropologists who have no seichel and like to say amazing things that are illogical, and make ridiculous inferencesDecember 31, 2010 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #1168812
If you’re talking about owning dogs for reasons other than partnership, well then, the Medrash says that Yaakov Avinu had 600,000 dogs or double that amount, to herd his sheep.December 31, 2010 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #1168813
i thought it was 600,000 sheep?December 31, 2010 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #1168814
That’s how many packs of sheep. One dog per pack, or two, one in front and one in back.December 31, 2010 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1168815
thanksDecember 31, 2010 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #1168816ZosHaTorahParticipant
We have a 11 year old dog. I’ve had a dog nearly every day of my life. This current one has always been a great companion. But when he goes, he’ll be our last dog. It’s just so very difficult to have guests on Shabbos, because nearly every FFB I know is afraid of dogs (the BT’s seem to do much better with dogs). And it’s just plain mean to our dog to lock him up on Shabbos (and no, that’s not an issue of trapping an animal, when they are fully domesticated).December 31, 2010 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #1168817
What business is it of anyone else’s if I want to or already own a dog? Yes, it is one thing if it is incredibly loud (but dont complain if you blast music at all hours or build your sukkah at 4am even after being asked to wait till dawn!) or there are holocaust survivors on your block ect. Maybe ask the survivors if they mind…?
But in the end- if I am not going against halacha, why should your opinion matter?
EDITEDDecember 31, 2010 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #1168818
no-one told you what to do.
if you want to have a dog, wonderful
yes people have expressed their opinions here
if you dont think those opinions matter you are perfectly free to disregard them
this is a forum
there are people who dont have your opinionJanuary 2, 2011 12:25 am at 12:25 am #1168819Midwest2Participant
I believe the Gemara about dog-owners being posul l’eidus has to do with people who own vicious / dangerous dogs. If you raise Doberman Pinschers you’ve got problems. I love dogs, but I’m petrified of Dobermans because one tried to stalk me on a dark street one evening. Great Danes, on the other hand, are huge, but act like overgrown puppies half the time.
So it depends on what breed of dog and the particular dog. Stay away from Dobermans, Rottweilers, pit bulls and other nasty types. Stick with retrievers, collies, and other friendly breeds and mixes, and your neighbors won’t have to be afraid.January 2, 2011 1:48 am at 1:48 am #1168820Nisht Ahe Nisht AherMember
A blind man who has a guide dog once told me that it is Oser to have a dog that is dangerous and bites. However, a puppy, trained dog or a dog that doesn’t bite should be ok.January 2, 2011 4:33 am at 4:33 am #1168821frumladygitMember
The dog was the lowest animal on the Tevah. On Noach’s Ark the dog did not obey Hashem’s command to separate from its mate. The dog and the crow. (If I am correct). Therefore I believe from an ethical and spiritual point of view it would serve the Jew well to separate himself far from this animal.January 2, 2011 5:20 am at 5:20 am #1168822
Are you confusing the dog with Cham?
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