October 6, 2010 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #592549rockerMember
Should girls learn to drive before they get married?October 6, 2010 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm #699398myfriendMember
Can they be more of a road menace than they are after marriage??October 7, 2010 12:10 am at 12:10 am #699399jeweledMember
FYI: There is a separate jokes topic already open.October 7, 2010 12:20 am at 12:20 am #699400pascha bchochmaParticipant
No. I don’t drive, and I find that it is much more modest to ask for rides and taking public transportation. (/joking)
Also, it makes it easier to only leave the house once a month.October 7, 2010 12:39 am at 12:39 am #699401d aMember
jeweled, YOU are FUNNY!!!October 7, 2010 12:50 am at 12:50 am #699402WIYMember
This whole thread belongs in the joke section. As far as I know chassidish girls don’t drive before marriage and I see nothing wrong with single “responsible” girls learning to drive. One has to be careful who they give a car to in this day and age. As years doesn’t always equal responsibility and good judgement.October 7, 2010 12:52 am at 12:52 am #699403pascha bchochmaParticipant
Next thread: Should single boys be allowed to walk in the street? It is quite dangerous spiritually.
(OTOH, the alternative may not be so safe – a friend of mine’s brother almost got run over, he was learning a sefer while walking.)October 7, 2010 12:57 am at 12:57 am #699404
Why shouldn’t they?October 7, 2010 1:19 am at 1:19 am #699405
Lets assume its serious.
What are the halachic problems of a girl driving before marriage?October 7, 2010 1:32 am at 1:32 am #699406d aMember
What are the halachic problems of a girl driving before marriage?
What type of halachic problem? I can’t think of any…October 7, 2010 1:54 am at 1:54 am #699407
I know I have heard some poskim (well-respected if I’m not mistaken but I don’t remember who) do hold it’s a problem. I think it had something to do with an woman’s arms being uncovered by turning the wheel… or something like that. However, this is obviously not the accepted norm in most communities.October 7, 2010 1:56 am at 1:56 am #699408apushatayidParticipant
I heard there are maikilim if it is for the express purpose of picking up more material for the tallis bag they are sewing for their bashert. Even then, it is only ok if she can’t get her father or one of her brothers to do it.October 7, 2010 2:00 am at 2:00 am #699409SacrilegeMember
mw13 – that belongs in the joke thread.October 7, 2010 2:03 am at 2:03 am #699410estherhamalkaMember
please dont be ridiculousOctober 7, 2010 2:13 am at 2:13 am #699411popa_bar_abbaParticipant
A girl should never go so far from her house that there is any reason to drive.October 7, 2010 2:23 am at 2:23 am #699412honoluluMember
i once met a girl that said the reason her husband doesnt drive is cuz driving can make him go place he doesnt belong- i almost laughed in her face.October 7, 2010 2:24 am at 2:24 am #699413an ideaParticipant
MW13: If it would be a tznius issue it wouldn’t change after marriage. Personally I don’t understand what the issue can be?October 7, 2010 2:45 am at 2:45 am #699414
No seriously, I heard it in halacha shiur.October 7, 2010 3:33 am at 3:33 am #699415myfriendMember
Forget driving. The larger tznius issue is just getting into/out of a car/van.October 7, 2010 4:13 am at 4:13 am #699416WIYMember
I think what you are asking is, if it is necessary for a girl to learn to drive before she gets married. I think its quite essential for every day living in most families. I wouldnt date a girl who has no drivers license, and I would find it rather strange that she has no license.October 7, 2010 4:32 am at 4:32 am #699417
I think the reason Chassidish women don’t drive is the idea that a woman is supposed to be in the home (kol kevudah), and not galivanting around. They consider it to be loose behavior. I believe this is true after marriage, as well.
But don’t get me started on the topic of women drivers. Whenever I see one, I know my trip will now take 3 times as long. There is something about how they dart into a street in front of you like a cowboy (although they seem to be looking carefully, they invariably miss your presence, and that you have right of way), but as soon as they do this daredevil act of getting onto your street almost hitting you in the process, they begin driving 15 MPH below the speed limit, and are totally unaware that they are impeding traffic. Oy vey, don’t get me started.October 7, 2010 5:12 am at 5:12 am #699418StateSenatorMember
waste of time that u are even talking about thisOctober 7, 2010 10:46 am at 10:46 am #699420shlomozalmanMember
I just reread my post and realized that it may not be taken seriously. But serious it is, and in Israel, you will not find a chareidi girl who has a driver’s license before marriage. Indeed, even after marriage it is frowned upon, but there are heterim to be found bedieved. Incidentally, the boys are strongly discouraged(prohibited in the stricter yeshivas)from learning to drive while still in yeshiva. But girls? Don’t even think about it.October 7, 2010 11:29 am at 11:29 am #699421
“If it would be a tznius issue it wouldn’t change after marriage.
Yeah, I never got that either… The only thing I can think of is that they’re machmir like this shitah when they can, but when they’re married it’s just too difficult. (Kinda like those who only carry in an eruv if there’s something they really need to move (like a kid).)
“But don’t get me started on the topic of women drivers. Whenever I see one, I know my trip will now take 3 times as long. There is something about how they dart into a street in front of you like a cowboy (although they seem to be looking carefully, they invariably miss your presence, and that you have right of way), but as soon as they do this daredevil act of getting onto your street almost hitting you in the process, they begin driving 15 MPH below the speed limit, and are totally unaware that they are impeding traffic. Oy vey, don’t get me started.”
Maybe that’s the reason Chassidim don’t let their girls drive… 😉October 7, 2010 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #699422
OK trying to be serious here.
I would assume that its relating to Dina – going out,
My problem with this is I would think its a lot less tzanua for a single woman to be gallavanting around the country on public transportation. She is more likely to be sexually harrassed or violated than if she is driving her own car.October 7, 2010 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #699423
SJS, why do you assume what you describe (“gallavanting around the country on public transportation”) is any more acceptable?October 7, 2010 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #699424
Ben Torah, at least in Israel, girls are more likely to be out and about doing the shopping, bussing to school, doing errands etc. At least, that has been my experience.
So yes, they are taking public transportation.
Gallavanting was perhaps an embellishment LOL.October 7, 2010 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #699425
Nevertheless, here in the USA, there are many frum girls who drive and behave like bnos yisroel and only use the car for chesed or errands and going to and from school and the like.
A girl who had a proper chinuch usually doesn’t get into trouble, and acts lshem shamayim. Too many rules often causes the opposite effect. In the USA we trust our kids and they usually live up to it.
In EY they usually never operate on the principle of trust, and think they have to legislate and forbid everything to make people behave. This includes concerts, etc. I have been to numerous concerts in the USA, and never recall any promiscuous behavior by frum people. People enjoy the music, families shmooze in the halls afterwards for a few minutes, and then everybody goes home.
There is a completely different attitude in EY where they think that every person is itching to go off the derech, and if we don’t hold them back, they will leave yiddishkeit in the blink of an eye.October 7, 2010 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #699426missmeMember
dont kid yourself pashute yid. the promiscuity very much goes on.
b”h you don’t notice it.October 7, 2010 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #699427SacrilegeMember
“But don’t get me started on the topic of women drivers.”
Because men are so hot behind the wheel. I dont disagree that many woman cause problems in traffic but this usually because they are spaced out or multi tasking, agreed its annoying. Men can be just as bad. Dont get me started about driving in Boro Park its enough to turn you into an Anti-Semite.
I think the reason woman/men dont drive in Israel is because its actually Sacanas Nifashos to drive there not spiritual, physical. Unless you have reflexes like a ninja.October 7, 2010 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #699428
I guess it wasn’t the right audience for the thread I had in mind. I’ll condense it to a post, then.
I think it is more important that we make sure girls learn to drive before they start driving than to worry about whether that happens before or after marriage.October 7, 2010 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #699429oomisParticipant
Of course they should. After they get married, it will be much harder to find the time to do this, especially if they have a baby. All schools should offer Driver’s Ed, and every girl who wants to do so should take the course (reduction on car insurance with the class, also).October 7, 2010 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #699430bptParticipant
Your line was a riot!
As a kid, my mother attended “weight watchers meetings” and “n’shei meetings” yet never lost a pound and exactly what was discussed at the nshei meetings was also never known.
Ah, the cluelessness of children! It was’nt until I was married that it dawned on me (duh!)October 7, 2010 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #699431
Sacrilege, since you are a female, I am especially glad that you agree. There is definitely something about women drivers that causes them to be spaced out and not notice what others are trying to do on the road. A good driver not only knows what he wants to do, but also understands what everybody else on the road in front or in back is going to do next. When he makes a move, he takes into account how it will affect those others.
As an example, when he makes a left turn, he will move all the way to the left as close to the yellow dividing line as he can, so there is room for others to go around him on his right. This way, he does not block traffic. When he makes a right turn, he will first get far to the right. This prevents blocking traffic, as before, but also prevents somebody else from trying to squeeze by and also make a right turn at the same time, so that he will hit that other person when he begins his own turn. Unfortunately, I constantly see people who make right turns by first moving to the left and then making a wide loopy turn. They have no clue how many people they are confusing, impeding, and almost hitting. I don’t know where they learned this left, then right method. It is almost never necessary to swerve left before a right turn, except in the most tight situations, like in a narrow parking lot.October 7, 2010 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #699432apushatayidParticipant
Before making snap decisions about single girls and driving, give a call to several gemachs to see who does the most driving for them. this is true of those that drive people to and from doctors visits, deliver food packages and many other chassadim.
In conjunction with taking away their drivers license, why dont we also empty out their closets and leave them with just a pair of pajamas, thereby ensuring they remain inside all day.October 7, 2010 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #699433popa_bar_abbaParticipant
learn to drive before marriage?
they should learn to cook and clean. and bake.October 7, 2010 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #699434avramiParticipant
now i think girls should definitaly not get a license before they get married and even after they get married ist just because of a middah of tznius and many other reasons and besides a torahdike girl/women would want to drive anyway, we are not talking in places we are a car is not a option if its needed you are allowed its not forbidden but before every women takes their drivers license they should really thing about before they do it, they should thing about kavod shomayim and tznius and who ever doesnt drive for these reason harie at meshubach.
EDITEDOctober 7, 2010 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #699435blinkyParticipant
i agree with oomis a thousand percent that after a woman is married its harder to find the time to drive. Just to add on, there are some places that its a necessity to drive, where things are just not around the corner. You just never know where you will end up living and if you have to go to the grocery thats not so local its very annoying to have to be dependant on someone else.October 7, 2010 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #699436minyan galMember
Some of these posts sound like throwbacks to the shtetl. For goodness sakes, it is almost essential to know how to drive in this day and age. How would you expect a woman to shop for groceries, car pool kids to school, etc, etc. The younger you are when you learn the better your skills will – usually. It is also important in cases of emergency – and one never knows when an emergency will crop. While it may not be neccessary for a young woman to be out “cruising” the McDonalds parking lot, it often is neccessary for her to visit her Baba in a nursing home, etc, etc, etc. I am surprised that some of you would allow your daughters to have a battery operated watch – or do you??? After all, it is a modern convenience.October 7, 2010 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #699437YW Moderator-80Member
throwbacks to the shtetl
alavaiOctober 7, 2010 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #699438arcParticipant
In America in outside of Brooklyn it’s practically a must to know how to drive, therefore yes they should.October 7, 2010 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #699439
Since most frum Americans live in Brooklyn, we are surely discussing them as much as any. And as you said, a car is not necessarily necessary in Brooklyn.
How many Yidden live out of Brooklyn anyways? Everytime I leave Brooklyn, I see its like 95% goyim.October 7, 2010 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #699440blinkyParticipant
Ben Torah- ever been to Lakewood???October 7, 2010 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #699441arcParticipant
95% goyim doesnt mean no jews. there are thousands in the greater NY area outside of bklyn.October 7, 2010 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #699442
There are some areas in the New York Metro area that are like that — Lakewood, Monsey, KJ, etc.October 7, 2010 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #699443
There are roughly 6.6 Billion people in the world. Only a paltry few million live in Brooklyn.
By your estimate, 95% or 6.3 Billion are goyyim, and the remaining 300 million are Jews.
300 million is far more than the number of Jews in Brooklyn, even if Brooklyn is 100% Jewish.October 7, 2010 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #699444bptParticipant
battery operated watch –
Minyan Gal.. talk about going back to the shtetl.
Which self respecting woman wears a watch today? What are cell phones / blacberrys are for?
Gosh Gal.. get with the times!
(I agree, some of the posts are ridiculous)October 7, 2010 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #699445
Nu, I said “like”. Make it 98%. And from those, most aren’t frum.
Additionally, I was talking about the domestic (out of Brooklyn) population. Not the world population.October 7, 2010 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #699446YW Moderator-80Member
300 million is far more than the number of Jews in Brooklyn.
doesnt seem like itOctober 7, 2010 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #699447
Even at 98%, the number of Jews outside of Brooklyn exceeds the number within Brooklyn by a factor of at least 50.
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