March 29, 2012 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #602709
Bais rikva in Crown Heights told its girls, either get off Facebook or get out of School.
The school CAN tell its girls to get off, but it doesnt mean they SHOULD kick them out for not doing so.
Imagine if a girl is kicked out and goes Off-The-Derech.March 29, 2012 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #903559
The article doesn’t mention anything about kicking anyone out.March 29, 2012 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #903560
The story here left out a big piece. Many students are claiming that last year, they were ENCOURAGED to sign up Facebook accounts. Kohl’s had a contest where you could vote for a school on Facebook, and the top 20 schools would get $500,000 each. The school asked parents and students to create Facebook accounts and vote for them.
Now that the contest is over, they’re fining the kids for having Facebook accounts? Crazy!March 29, 2012 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #903561
I actually don’t see much of a problem with an ultimatum like that. Getting rid of Facebook is easy and reasonable.March 29, 2012 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #903562
It said so in the Post. I originally read about it in the PostMarch 29, 2012 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #903563
It even made the news in The Netherlands. On the front page of the most-read online news site. Oops.
Anyway, I think it’s a decent rule for a BY.
Did you know that in Yerushalayim, many girls have Facebook accounts? I’m talking 14-year olds from a BY in Geulah, one of the best known in Yerushalayim. Heard this from our neighbors’ daughter when we were still living in Yerushalayim. I was quite shocked.March 29, 2012 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #903564
Why the $100 fine? If the girls get off, that should be sufficient.March 29, 2012 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #903565
A school is allowed to set rules to keep teh girls on track. If you go to a certain school you have to follow their rules. I dont think a girl should have such an impossible time getting off of facebook. Apparently, this causes lots of harm.March 29, 2012 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #903566
Who has the wisdom to know which is better? To be refused admission or expelled and go completely off to join the secular world; or to be immersed in the treif privately and keep an outer appearance of frum? And if the school would not expel, how would they enforce their policy otherwise?March 29, 2012 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #903567
What the article doesn’t mention is that the school encouraged the students to join facebook so that they could vote for it in the Kohl’s competition last year for a significant grant for the school. It seems arbitrary but legitimate to require them to shut down their pages, but utterly wrong to fine them for having them.March 29, 2012 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #903568
What about the girls who won’t go off because they won’t go on facebook bceuse of this policy?March 29, 2012 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #903569
I THINK ALL RELIGIOUS JEWS SHOULD GET OFF FACEBOOK!March 29, 2012 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #903570
instead of banning it they shud be open minded and teach their girls the pros and cons and raise girls who know their boundries.March 29, 2012 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #903571
Ultimateskier: So you think we need to teach our children to be more open minded?? HUH, for example go to Times Square at night and watch all the shows so we could be more open minded? HUH?? Boundaries? What ever for? It is so limited?
WE ARE THE HOLY NATION! WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFERENT !IT”S ALL HOW YOU LOOK AT THINGS! I don’t feel I have been brought up with boundaries or closed mindedness. I feel I am lucky and PROUD to be Jewish!March 29, 2012 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #903572
Why not Ban travelling to Manhattan.
How about banning riding the Subway.
How about banning visiting such stores as Macy’sMarch 29, 2012 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #903573
Will Facebook be discussed in a meaningful way at the upcoming asefa on internet? It seems we have meetings local and regional, large and small year after year and no progress is being made regarding the internet.March 29, 2012 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #903574
I don’t think schools should have authority over what their students do outside of school. That is their parents’ responsibility.March 29, 2012 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #903575
How about banning going to the Library so many Holy Neshamas are being corrputed by the schmutz and Apikorsis in the LibraryMarch 29, 2012 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #903576
Zehavasdad: I think you have some serious questions about bans in Yiddishkeit in general? I guess you have a different philosophy on religion or the Jewish religion that is?March 29, 2012 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #903577
The little I knowParticipant
While there are probably a few uses of FB that are kosher and possibly even positive, it is a makom sakanah. One should question whether such social networks are really a need or just another piece of entertainment.
I figure that Bais Rivka felt it was a need at one point (for the sheer dollar value they hoped to obtain), and came to realize the price of how it endangered the girls was not worth it. From the reports I read, the school retracted its advice to join FB, and then had the students commit to delete their accounts. They only reacted punitively when several girls who committed to delete their accounts did not keep their word.
Far more important is that this FB issue is being turned into a discussion of whether the ban is proper, and how to deal with compliance – discipline. I think this approach is mistaken. This issue is an opportunity to teach something. And every such opportunity missed is a chinuch failure. If Bais Rivka did use it to teach, kol hakavod. If they or others do not, I feel bad for the damage they leave behind.March 29, 2012 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #903578
Why not Ban travelling to Manhattan.
How about banning riding the Subway.
How about banning visiting such stores as Macy’s
I’m unsure what you are trying to say. It sounds like your argument is, that if schools are going to legislate morality on their students, then they should intrude into every aspect of their lives.
That sounds bizarre. I’m not sure why you would criticize the schools for being responsible and not intruding into every aspect of the students lives.
Unless you are saying that you think going to Macy’s is egregious enough that it is similar to facebook. That is a strange opinion.March 29, 2012 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #903579
listen to this story and it will be VERY obvious why they want their girls off facebook
the story starts at around 5:00
enjoy!March 29, 2012 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #903580
i have a Facebook account. as a matter of fact, i have more than one. so, am i in cherem now?? (If i am, that would be great, my cd’s would sell faster :))March 29, 2012 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #903581
The point is there is alot more shmutz in Manhattan than there is on FB. A visit to Times Square will more than validate that.
Abercrome and Fitch another store is known to have a certain attitude. You can google it if you want more info.
I am sure there are people who have had issues with FB, but How many holy neshamas have travelled to Manhattan and felt the excitement and decided it was more exciting than Borough Park (Or Crown Heights in this Schools case) and was pulled in by it.
I know of ALOT more stories of people pulled in by the clubs, Music and what not of Manhattan than people pulled to sin by FBMarch 29, 2012 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #903582
Why was it OK for money to encourage the girls to join? It was the same Facebook thenMarch 29, 2012 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #903583
Yes, schools should ban facebook.March 30, 2012 12:11 am at 12:11 am #903584
zahavasdad- manyyyyyyyyyyy stories happen from facebook also! and there is tonz of shmutz on there to! it is not acceptable for jewish ppl to be on thereMarch 30, 2012 12:20 am at 12:20 am #903585
zehavasdad, u bring a valid point but theres one aspect of Facebook which makes it WAY worse than Manhattan and that is the PRIVACY of FB. even if a nice frum girl would walk in to a movie theater or nightclub in Manhattan there’s still that self conscious fear of seeing someone she knows and being embarresed to stop her. but on the other hand a nice frum girl can curl under her blanket, turn on her itouch, look at shmutz and fall all the way down WHITHOUT ANYBODY KNOWING besides the “freinds” she hooked up with that she doesnt know!March 30, 2012 12:35 am at 12:35 am #903586
I think the school is perhaps justified, depending on the values projected by the school in the first place; HOWEVER, by telling the girls to open one in the first place they are promoting a double standard. They will only make the girls confused as to what is more important— money or shmiras einayim.
Bad move. They need to pick a position and stick to it. What a great example it would be if they had specifically foregone the contest because it would necessitate Facebook, which seems to be against school hashkafah.
I’m not going to say whether I think Facebook is good or bad, though, just because my own opinions on the subject aren’t entirely developed.March 30, 2012 12:58 am at 12:58 am #903587
Ban IT!!! Ban it from all frum homes. It is a major time killler and tool of the Yetzer Hora!! Hefsed schara outweighs its benefits. Stop the bleeding!March 30, 2012 1:36 am at 1:36 am #903588
“Ban IT!!! Ban it from all frum homes. It is a major time killler and tool of the Yetzer Hora!! Hefsed schara outweighs its benefits. Stop the bleeding!”
Sounds like you are giving reasons for banning the Coffee Room.March 30, 2012 2:02 am at 2:02 am #903589
RABBAIM: What do you think the CR is :)?
From your “time killer and tool of yetzer hora” perspective, it certainly is.March 30, 2012 2:16 am at 2:16 am #903590
What does a frum girl need to go to Manhattan for?March 30, 2012 2:19 am at 2:19 am #903591
I don’t get why you would protest a school banning Facebook. Sure, I don’t think you can ban it in real life. But schools have lots of rules – uniforms, no makeup, whatever, that would be completely ridiculous in real life but make lots of sense in a school setting. I don’t think it’s an objectionable rule at all.March 30, 2012 3:24 am at 3:24 am #903592
It is absolutely, not the school’s business, as to what the girls do, out side of school hours.
As for the girl who mentioned, this is how she keeps up with her Israeli cousins, whom she doesn’t see too often, [as I read in the Post], she should absolutely use e-mail to keep up with her Israeli cousins, but even I don’t use facebook, as it is far too public. E-mail works just fine.
A lot of good has come out of computers, such as numerous Shiurim over the computer, as well as several succesful Shiduchim over the internet, so how dare anyone banish internet?
Needless to say, after having read today’s Post, I am not sending my daughter to this school, just because of this isssue.March 30, 2012 3:29 am at 3:29 am #903593
zahavasdad – let me guess, FB is ok, b/c they have advertisements for Kosher food that they sell at games?March 30, 2012 3:54 am at 3:54 am #903594
I think that making the rule is okay. The way they are choosing to reinforce that rule is bothering me. Like Middlepath said- I don’t think schools have the right to force their students to act a certain way outside of school hours and property and especially not to threaten the rulebreakers with expulsion.
And if it is true that they asked the students to make an account for the schools benefit, asking them to delete after it is hypocritical and wrong.March 30, 2012 4:11 am at 4:11 am #903595
It is absolutely, not the school’s business, as to what the girls do, out side of school hours.
Um…yes it is…if you ran a school, would you let your kids run amok because it’s “not your business”? A private school has every right to make rules at its own discretion. Deal with it.March 30, 2012 4:37 am at 4:37 am #903596
147- Who, taught you how, to use, commas.
zdad- Things worse then facebook dont make it good. what problem do you have with a school trying to do what it can for its girls?March 30, 2012 5:51 am at 5:51 am #903597
What is there about “assur” that some of us fail to understand?March 30, 2012 6:16 am at 6:16 am #903598
first of all how will the school really be able to find them onfacebook? They could easily have fake names ! and besides if the girls want facebook they will find one way or another, i know of plenty of people in ny and lakewood that dont have internet(b/c of skls) go to friends houses and use internet there! If teens want someting they will figure out how to get it! Isnt it better they should be home with parnets there then at a friends house?March 30, 2012 7:19 am at 7:19 am #903599
Cherry… and writersoul…. I make an effort to write Hashkafic replies to peoples concerns and not waste time. I may not be successful, but I am not reading the frivolous ones.March 30, 2012 10:25 am at 10:25 am #903600
So what, once the school made the mistake of having the girls sign up for FB to try to win the contest, they can’t take steps to fix the mistake now that they realize that unfortunately some girls got led astray or are at risk of improper exposure to things on FB? They’re stuck, that’s it, forget fixing it, don’t cry over spilled milk?
While I agree with the poster who says that perhaps they should have refused to try to win the contest since it required joining FB (I myself won’t try to get coupons or other free items for this very reason), now that they did, can’t they retract and say, wait, we just wanted it for this particular reason, we’re not giving a general haskoma to FB, and we don’t want our girls participating in FB because of the problems that it has – including wasting time that should be spent doing homework or helping at home – not to speak of possible connections with people that the girls do not know and her parents have no way to know what she’s developed these connections, and there are some very scary people out there in the world, including people who impersonate other people just to become friends with unsuspecting young people online.
Schools in Lakewood won’t admit students who have a computer in the house, and this is the reality that the parents deal with. A strong parent might have said to his daughter that even in spite of wanting to help the school he doesn’t allow his daughter to make an FB account. Schools and parents should be on the same page as far as educating the children. If the parents do not agree with the restrictions the school establishes, even if it goes against a previous request of the school, they are free to change the girls’ school.March 30, 2012 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #903602
RABBAIM: My point was, think before you post.
I was being totally serious, by the way.March 30, 2012 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #903603
Nechomah- They absolutely do have the right to make the rule, but not to reinforce it with expulsion.
But look at it from the students perspective: The school was willing to have all the girls make Facebook accounts- and they most certainly knew the potential dangers of it- to make some money. And then they say that anyone who does not delete their account will be expelled.
They are showing the girls that they are allowed to compromise their values to make a few bucks. It is simply unfair and hypocritical.March 30, 2012 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #903604
and I belive Cinderella is a teenage girl who is of the same age of the girls who go to that school
Teenagers can see right through hypocracy and see phoniness.
One thing teenagers hate is hypocracyMarch 30, 2012 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #903605
Zahavasdad- I wish I was back in high school but I’m a few years past that. Still abhor hypocracy though.March 30, 2012 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #903606
Sorry had you confused
Everyone hates hypocracy and if you read the book about people going off the dereach its this exact situation that causes kids to loose it.March 30, 2012 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #903607
I agree with cinderella that the hypocrisy that students will see from this can easily have far worse effects than a social networking site.
As I said earlier, schools should not have control over what their students do out of school. I don’t mind if schools block Facebook on their own computers in the computer lab. But it should not be in the school’s power to control what their students do OUT of school. That is what PARENTS are for. Too often, parents will point fingers at the schools for things that they themselves should be responsible for.
Also, I don’t like when people throw blame at objects instead of taking the blame themselves. For example, saying “Facebook is bad, the Internet is evil, etc..” That is just foolish. Everything can be used in a good or bad way. It is US who make that choice. If someone uses Facebook in a bad way, it’s not because Facebook is bad. It’s because the PERSON made the CHOICE to use it in a bad way. The PERSON is to blame, not the OBJECT.March 30, 2012 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #903608
I’m with you on this one MiddlePath.
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