Possible Sleeping Disorder?

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    I try to go to bed around 11:30-12 am every night, but most nights, I won’t be able to fall asleep until at least 2 am, even though I will be lying in bed/ going to the bathroom then lying in bed some more. I was not able to fall asleep until 4:30 am this morning, and I needed to wake up at 7:30 am, but I was not able to. When I get really desperate (and I know this is not healthy at all), I will eat several slices of bread with butter (I just switched to whole wheat), then after I bentch, I am able to fall asleep within minutes, but I would like ideas for a more practical solution.

    I am IMMUNE to melatonin, and I do not have good enough health insurance to get evaluated for a sleep disorder through a sleep study, although I have had multiple doctors suggest this. This issue started nine and a half years ago. Does anyone have any tips?

    The following things do not work:


    Counting backwards from 100.

    Counting Sheep.


    Writing in a journal before going to sleep.

    Whether shower at night vs morning does not make a difference in either falling asleep or waking up.

    Sleeping masks- My skin is really sensitive and I always pull them off after 30 minutes because i can’t stand them.

    Ear Plugs- I live in a dorm, and even when I didn’t, my ears always get irritated by them that I wait until 1:30 am to take them out, and then I still can’t fall asleep.

    Classical music.

    Ceasing use of screen devices for an hour before bed time.



    there was an article recently in the binah about insomnia. I will try to find it and post some points.

    I know music before lying down, just to get sleepy and relaxed, works for some. Have you tried white noise? You can get the effect by turning on a radio talk show on low, or onto a fuzzy channel.

    And something i push my friends to do is to go to bed when they start getting tired naturally, not staying up past that. Even if it messes up your schedule by having early nights for a few nights, it may get your body back in rhythm.


    have you tried exercising in the mornings?

    I had the same problem until I started exercising in the mornings?

    What about your vitamin d and b12 level?


    The issue is that I a too tired to even get up.

    I need to start eating more red meat because my school never serves that. I eat tons of cheese though (if I am not eating red meat, I love eating milchigs- I hate chicken).

    Also, since I am in Israel, I walk outdoors long distances all the time to catch busses and stuff, and I drink milk. So I know I am geting enough Vitamin D.


    In terms of white noise, the refrigerator inmy suite is very noisy, that is why my roommate can fall asleep. I, on the other hand, cannot deal with white noise, because it does not work. the only reason I would get an electic waterfall would be if someone else paid for it. Actually, now that i think about it, i have a fondue machine that I got as a giveaway from a really Jappy Girl’s bat mitzvah I went to many years ago- when i go back to the states, i could pull that thing out and put it to use.


    do you say shema?


    you are not for sure getting enough vitamin d- u shud check that cuz that cud be the problem. you might be getting calcium but as a frum girl, chances are vitamin d is the problem- it was a big part of mine.


    Oh well, another post bites the dust.

    SB – You need to change Meds.


    I hate to admit this, but i have had to many experiences actually getting up, talking, going to the bathroom, drinking water, and doing anything else i should not be doing after saying Hamapil, that I just stopped saying it, occasionally, i try again, but the same pattern of just acting as if i never said it starts up again, and then i stop.


    most people are low on vitamin D but i never heard that it affects sleep


    I didn’t think it did either. Health: I see doctors at least once a month. Sometimes more often.

    Also, most people, including myself, don’t stay on the same meds in the same combination for an entire decade. Most people, unfortunately have incidents where they have to take antibiotics at one point- or something like that.


    health- I take lower doses when i wake up later, like half my dose. I am very tricky to medicate.


    again check ur vitamin D- coming from north america (im assuming here) u are low in d- having a bit of exposure for your arms face and maybe legs (depending if theyre covered or not and denier of tights) is not enough. Its a simple blood test. Also if ur vit d deficient, ur not absorbing the calcium of which u need 1000 mg daily and that can also be a cause.its worth a try


    well it can- i know from myself and a medical point of view


    Except for the fact that I spend half my summers doing all sorts of house work, like mowing lawns (I live on a half acre of land), and mopping floors (at home in the states, I do any chore you can think of- including cleaning the bathrooms- even the toilet…) i only have one younger brother, and i live with him and my mom, and for some weird reason the house we are stuck in (we wish we could move to a smaller place without living in a ghetto area… its complicated) has enough rooms for each of us to have our own bedroom and office. Also, I like doing long distance walking, so i could easily walk 5- 10 miles a day for exersise.




    SB -“Health: I see doctors at least once a month. Sometimes more often.”

    You still have to change them. Did you get ahold of that Frum org. that I told you about?

    “I am very tricky to medicate.”

    Yea, for the Docs that you’ve seen only, not for any other Med Prof.


    I tried them, but there was a big language barrier, so they referred me to a doctor in Tel Aviv, which i had no problem with (at this point, my stomach isn’t so much of an issue- most of the time), and I left a voice message on the doctor in Tel Aviv’s voicemail, but i never got a call back, and I tried contacting that guy for two hours.

    As much financial resources that my family lacks, that is mostly because my mother insists on taking us to the best doctors in town and pays a fortune on medical care for the three of us, and part of being mentally healthy is living a fulfilling life where we get oppotunities to do things like travel (like go on road trips and then spend the night sleeping in the car at a rest stop because hotels are not affordable all the time), go to museums, hang out with friends, get out hair cut once a year (my brother once every 8-10 weeks) and stuff like that. I trust my doctors. i am still getting the hang of the Israeli medical care system.



    Start saying krias shema al hamittah with hamapil.

    Btw what works for guys and one of my Roshe Yeshiva recommended it is trying to learn Gemara at night. The Yetzer Hora will have you yawning in no time. For girls maybe also try learning some in depth Torah. You can also try going to sleep listening to a shiur. (If he/she has a boring voice even better!)


    I am not a medical professional but it seems to me that it’s lots of stress you are under.

    Have you ever tried staying up all night and then starting the new day? If the following you feel tired at 7pm, so be it, enjoy your sleep. The next day you’ll stay up later.

    Also, I hear there are lots of differences among the amount of sleep different people are used to. You should consider how many hours of sleep usually make you feel you rested well, and then compute according to that.


    hi snowbunny,

    u mentioned in another post that u have stomache problems.. idk if u take medicnes but maybe u cant fall asleep becuz of a side effect? if that cud be a possibility mayb ask ur doc if u can go off for a day 2 c…

    also, maybe try relaxation dvds when u r trying to fall asleep. i used to do this and it rly works 4 me.. it has soothing music plus it tells u what muscles 2 tense then relax, which ttly makes u fall asleep within 10 min of the dvd being ovr. b4 u buy these dvds mayb download some online or try on youtube.. gluck and daven!! its prob soo annoying..


    Yeah, its three am and i am still awake. I actually decided to try daniellas suggestion, and combine it with my own twist and bought a can of coca cola from the vending machine to help me stay up so that i can run on adrenaline today (my cousins from NY are coming in and I am probably just hyped up about that).

    Once i get more money, i am planning on resuming relaxation therapy.

    Also, the issue is that like in this instance, i went to my room at 12 am and then just stayed in bed for three hours and i still couldn’t fall asleep- not even close. My room mate was completely asleep when I entered. Yes, i am very stressed, there is a possibility that none of my plans for next year will work out, and I might find out that the sherut leumi thing wont work out on thursday because i am not close to fluent in Hebrew (although my mom was kind enough to hire me an ulpan tutor because i negotiated a $20 an hour rate with my former Hebrew teacher from public school)

    Yesterday, i slept for five hours and i felt very awake after that, but that means i actually need to fall asleep by 2 am every night, but i spent an extra hour laying in bed to make sure i wouldn’t fall back asleep (I woke up to find the cleaning lady vaccuming the floor in my room… that was awkward).

    Growing up, i needed like 7-8 hours, but the thing is that my sleep issue got especially bad my senior year when i switched into the bais yaakov because i was stressed about not understanding anything that went on in class, and the school day was so long and the driving in rush hour traffic was so intense, and then I wanted to hang out with my friends on school nights, so i spent half the year sleeping on my best friends couch so that i could go to chagigas and stuff and then even though she was only 15 minutes away from the school, her mother would literally call me out of davening every time i stayed there because i was never awake enough to drive the car until later in the day… the list goes on and on.

    Don’t get me wrong, I loved many aspects of being in that bais yaakov, but a lot of it was difficult because i wanted to dress like everyone else, but there were so many expensive things to get at once that clothes were just not the priority any more.


    snowbunny3318: Have you developed bad sleeping habits previously? It took me a full year to readjust my circadian rhythms after seminary. If that’s the case, then I don’t think fancy drugs and etc. will help. I sort of just braved through it (with some abuse of caffeine pills and cold meds :P).

    My advice: Don’t try and force yourself to sleep at prescribed times. If you are really having trouble, you are going to have to ease yourself into it. Take naps during the day if it helps, and try to slowly get yourself into a normal schedule.


    It is impossible to take naps in my program, they are constantly calling me when i would theoretically take a nap (during lunch break) and girls will just randomely come in and turn the lights on. My roommate is going home for pesach and isn’t coming back, so that should hopefully bring me partial relief (that will make me feel comfortable locking the door at night…).


    Nap in the miklat (that’s what some people in my sem did). ^_^


    the miklat in my seminary is the computer room.


    just a warning about staying up the night. that always hits me not the second day of being awake but the day after, so if you are zombie-like on thursday, be aware it may just be that.


    I’ve done this before, sometimes that happens, other times, it doesn’t happen to me, its a calculated risk.


    hatzlocha rabba then! and enjoy your cousins




    whats a milkat?


    bomb shelter. Israeli law reqires, and rightfully so, all buildings to have bomb shelters.


    If you really are having trouble sleeping, I would tell you to tell everyone not to disturb you during your break, and let your roommates know not to turn on the light/make noise then.


    its complicated…


    Welllllll then, tell them that if you don’t get enough sleep, you will turn into a rage zombie and EAT ALL THEIR BRAINZZZZZ (for the z’s, of course). ^_^


    I recommend working on your diet. Any caffiene? Anything else that might set you off? Try playing with your diet to see if you skip something if it helps. Milk, wheat, sugar, citrus etc.

    Good luck!


    Unless I am planning on pulling an alnighter like I did last night, I don’t drink caffiene so late.


    don’t know what ‘so late’ is, but my friend cant have coffee or even chocolate past 4 if she wants to sleep before 1am. Worth trying


    that sounds like a good idea to try implementing. Might save me some money as well.


    🙂 g’luck and have a good day!




    SB -“I tried them, but there was a big language barrier, so they referred me to a doctor in Tel Aviv, which i had no problem with (at this point, my stomach isn’t so much of an issue- most of the time), and I left a voice message on the doctor in Tel Aviv’s voicemail, but i never got a call back, and I tried contacting that guy for two hours.”

    It’s good to hear that your IBS is calming down -that means your anxiety is lessening.

    You need to recontact them and speak with a person there who speaks English. You need a referral to three Docs. And if there is a language barrier have them provide you with a interpreter.


    ok, got it.



    i know its hard 4 u not being able 2 fall asleep, but at least u cud get a lotta things done at night b4 falling asleep;)


    haha… I am just stressed because I need a breather right now, and I want to go to the shuk because I want to go to a different store and get fresh sunflower seeds (I ended up buying stale ones yesterday by accident), but I have to wait a bit before leaving.


    In terms of plans for next year not working out, I just found out today “we are waiting for the other girls to make their decisions, that does not mean that you won’t have a job…” Honestly, I feel like that means it might not even work out (not sure what my opinion on that is at the moment).


    I fell asleep for an hour tonight, from 7 – 8 pm, then someone woke me up because i was missing the chavrusa part (i feel like a bochur right now for saying that) of the day, but i said that i needed to sleep… It was kinda awkward. And now, I can’t fall asleep…

    Goq: Ambien interacts with so many of my medications that I could die if I took it .




    saysme: Were you able to find the Binah article?



    cud a neurlogogist help u fig out whats wrong?? u gotta see a doc.. fast.. ur prob soo sleep deprived..

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