December 3, 2008 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #588794JDsaysLOLMember
Boys feel they can smoke on purim like thats not unhealthy what is this… do u think its fineDecember 3, 2008 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #633035
i dont understand why purim is diff. than the rest of the yearDecember 3, 2008 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #633036madshtarkMember
I guess it depends what they are smoking.December 3, 2008 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #633037ModernGuyParticipant
Although smoking once a year is still foolish, i am alot more concerned about the boys who smoke year round, and not enough is done within the yeshivahs to discourage this type of practice. This is an age old argument about how one can consider themselves a frum jew, and yet do something so damaging to their bodies. The very first mention of man in the torah is when hashem says “let me make man in my image” – before we worry about any other mitzvah, we have to preserve the holiness and perfection of that image, and smoking is a violation of that. Any frum person who feels righteous for keeping shabbos, and kosher, and yet smokes, is in my opinion a hypocrite. The argument that it is addictive is meaningless to me, it is a habbit that can be ended. Delicious mcdonalds burgers can be addictive too, but we resist the urge to eat them because it is against the torah.December 3, 2008 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #633038
personally, i think smoking is the most disgusting thing on the planet. but madshtark’s right. i think cigars and not really harmful. and a few cigarettes (i can’t even SPELL it!) a year won’t do any harm.December 3, 2008 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #633039noitallmrParticipant
Yeah it’s OK since it’s only one day of the year. Are you saying that you can’t understand why you should drink on Purim either? Why is it different to the whole year?
Answer- yes it is different. Very different.December 3, 2008 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #633040
Anyone who thinks that a 15 year old kid is capable of being “mature” enough to smoke only one day a year is in the running for the most naive person on the planet award.
I can’t believe someone from Brooklyn could write such a thing & I guess you (noitallmr) don’t really know it all.December 3, 2008 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #633041
I never said it was “right” or that we should encourage it. But you don’t have to kill yourself over something you have absolutely zero control! The kid is gonna do it with or without your concent. The only difference will be is how much he hides it from you.
And like a said, it does really depend what it is that they’re smoking. Two of my brothers smoke cigars on a regular basis and they claim it does no damage to the human body.
And I know this is so Brooklyn to say but at least it’s doing it in class!December 4, 2008 12:23 am at 12:23 am #633042JDsaysLOLMember
Smoking Cigars cannot cause lung cancer because u dont inhale but there is lip[ and tounge and rotten teeth and all cancers can spread easily so if chas vshalom s/o gets tounge cancer they may have 2 cut his toung off in order so it shouldnt spreadDecember 4, 2008 12:52 am at 12:52 am #633043
First of all, the Torah specifically forbids doing something which is harmful to the body. Only a devout moron would try to defend smoking on the grounds that is is “not proved to be harmful.” Any school child knows smoking causes lung cancer, stomach cancer, emphysema, and heart attacks. If we are not supposed to indulge in behaviors that risk our health, ( and don’t mention about food and obesity – one can live without smoking, but we cannot live without food), then smoking is certainly up near the top of the list. So for a Yeshivah to condone ANY smoking (and the rebbeim seem to be guilty of this, too), is rather hypocritical and foolish, in my opinion. As to cigars, they can cause lip cancer, tongue cancer, and defintily pollute our environment, or so I ahve heard. Whether it is boys getting drunk on Purim, or smoking (which is illegal BTW if you are underage), these are disgusting behaviors and should not be tolerated.December 4, 2008 1:51 am at 1:51 am #633044havesomeseichelMember
ok, this is very important about smoking….
1) Smoking once is enough to be addicted. Nicotine is so addicting that it can catch people the first or second time they try to smoke.
2) It takes at least ONE MONTH to get rid of all damage that ONE cigarette does to your body. Now, having 3-4 (meaning of a few) takes at least 3-4 (or maybe more) MONTHS to get rid of all traces of it. Doing this every year can cause real damage to your body.
3) I know someone who stopped smoking for 22+ years after being a chain smoker for many decades. She still was niftar from lung cancer due to her smoking.
4) show your kids the pictures of lungs after smoking and they may stop.
5) what about the halacha to protect your body?? Ushmartem meod es nafshoteichem… if you wont do it for your physical well being, do it for the Olam Haboa.December 4, 2008 1:58 am at 1:58 am #633045yenta101Member
I think smoking is absoloutely horrible!! Something MUST be done…yeshivos must be more strict about their talmidim smoking! I agree with oomis, smoking is damaging your body and is therefore ASSUR!! As well, most boys smoke because they think its cool, but obviously they know its not cool because half of them hide it from their parents and other people. so they basically do it so their friends think they’re cool! i think something HAS to be done!December 4, 2008 2:16 am at 2:16 am #633046I can only tryMember
The smoker who’s hopelessly hooked to his three-pack-a-day habbit started with a single cigarette.
Several of my classmates who ended up with the dangerous, expensive and smelly addiction started on Purim and/or to be “cool”.
If you never take that first puff, you will never be a smoker.
Many people will reject a shidduch with a smoker.
Your insurance premiums will be significantly higher.
Please – don’t start, even once, even on Purim.December 4, 2008 2:41 am at 2:41 am #633047
I Can Only Try,
i agree with you 100%December 4, 2008 3:00 am at 3:00 am #633048
a few years ago (i must have been around 10 or something) my older brother, on purim, offered me a cigarette. of course i took one, it was so cool, all the older boys were doing it, and of course i half-killed myself cuz i choked on it…LOL (no joke, but im laughing now that i remember it)—but really, thats what it does, IT KILLS PEOPLE. but the temptation is very powerful. its like a modern-day avodah zora, along with all our other nisyonos that we cant seem to get enough of….
anyway the point of my little anecdote is to say, be sensitive to the fact that these boys have been watching their older brothers&friends hanging out on street corners and looking really, really cool. so i think what needs to be done is show these kids (some not kids, unfortunately) that “COOL” isnt always so good—amalek is known for their midah of kar/coldness, and mikreh/coincidence (Same loshon/shoresh). if we want to win amalek, we need to be HOT and go against their coldness….theres a medrash of amalek cooling bnei yisroel off…forgot how it goes…forgot how i ended up here….
hopefully it makes some sort of sense if you actually got to the end of this post…December 4, 2008 3:10 am at 3:10 am #633049
the main problem is that many bochurim do not realize the long term affects, including shortening your life by increasing the chances of yener machlahDecember 4, 2008 3:27 am at 3:27 am #633050mw13Participant
smoking kills. more most be done to discourage it.
noitall – there is a special inyun to drink on purim, not to commit suicide. while you’re at it, why don’t you also suspend kashrus on purim?!December 4, 2008 3:34 am at 3:34 am #633051
Nicotine addiction is one of the MOST powerful yitzrei hara in existence. People dying from emphysema, hooked up to machines that are helping them to get a LITTLE breath into their lungs, will still continue to puff away until the day they die, knwoing they are already dying and every new puff is counteracting the machine’s mission to help them breathe. Now if that does not bother one enought o get them not to smoke, maybe the knowledge that they are literally sending their dollars up in smoke will. You may as well set fire to your wallet. Same difference. The momentary enjoyment the cigarette brings, is not worth a lifetime of pain both to you and to your loved ones who are left with the aftermath of your painful death, as well as the potential for dying from second-hand smoke.December 4, 2008 3:44 am at 3:44 am #633052
Smoking is an obnoxious destructive habit, as everyone knows. Posters who are Oncologists we need your Musar to respond to JDsaysLOL and other people who think Smoking once is harmless.December 4, 2008 3:54 am at 3:54 am #633053JosephParticipant
Smoking is the sign of a baal gaaiva.December 4, 2008 4:32 am at 4:32 am #633054
said it perfectly, Joseph. another word for “cool”December 4, 2008 4:54 am at 4:54 am #633055amichaiParticipant
It would be great if we could arrange, 6 wks. before purim for a lung specialist to come into the schools and show the older kids x/rays of the lungs before you start smoking and after. It might have an effect.December 4, 2008 5:12 am at 5:12 am #633056
why? i mean, i see a little bit of what you’re saying but you probably can explain it better.December 4, 2008 5:39 am at 5:39 am #633057mamashtakahMember
I would suggest that some of you read the following regarding links of cigars to cancer:
Cigar smoking raises your risk of cancer and death
“Cigar smoking increases your risk of death from many cancers, including:
* lip, tongue, mouth, throat (oral cavity)
* esophagus (the tube connecting the mouth to the stomach)
* voice box (larynx)
Studies have shown that regular cigar smokers are 4 to 10 times more likely to die from cancers of the mouth, larynx, and esophagus than non-smokers. For those who inhale, cigar smoking appears to be linked to death from cancer of the pancreas and bladder, too.” (from http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Cigar_Smoking.asp)
“What about secondhand cigar smoke?
Because cigars contain more tobacco than cigarettes, and because they often burn for much longer, they give off greater amounts of secondhand smoke. This is also known as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) or passive smoke. Secondhand smoke includes both the smoke from the end of the burning cigar and the smoke exhaled by the smoker.
In general, secondhand smoke from cigars contains many of the same toxins (poisons) and carcinogens (cancer causing agents) as cigarette smoke, but in higher concentrations. Some of the toxins or irritants in cigar smoke include:
* carbon monoxide
* hydrogen cyanide
* volatile aldehydes
Cigar smoke includes the following agents that cause cancer (carcinogens):
* aromatic amines (especially carcinogens such as 2-naphthylamine and 4-aminobiphenyl)
* vinyl chloride
* ethylene oxide
* polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons”December 4, 2008 6:36 am at 6:36 am #633058asdfghjklParticipant
as a child, i was once standing close to a smoker on yom tov when he got a ”light” coming out of shul. while he lifted his hand,to put the cigarette in his mouth, he swiped my right eye with the lite cigarette,leaving me in excruciating pain. i had 2 surgeries & almost lost my site in my right eye! yeah smoking is extremly harmfull to the smoker, but think of others too(in regard to second hand smoking as well)!!!December 4, 2008 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #633059
I’m assuming you mean nowadays being that R’ Yisrael Salanter, The Alter M’kelm, R’ Elchanan, R’ Shach etc. etc. smoked.
Not exactly a bunch of Ba’alei Ga’ava.December 4, 2008 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #633060intellegentMember
I think many Roshei Yeshiva and Rebbeim feel they can’t say anything to the bochurim because they smoke themselves! However, if they are in their 60’s, there was not as much awareness when they started and EVERYONE practically smoked then. Of course they should stop but it is very difficult. Still bochurim SHOULD NOT SMOKE. It should be considered an embarressment to smoke and not “cool”!December 4, 2008 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #633061cantoresqMember
First of all, my personal experience is that smoking is not addictive. I smoked for about five years in high school and into college. I wasn’t a chaim smoker, and went thgough about a pack of cigarettes a week. I also smoked a pipe, which I much preferred. When I got seriously into singing and was told that smoking can ruin a voice, I stopped cold turkey, and never looked back. I suffered no pangs of withdrawal, never craved a cigarette and never looked back.
People are right to yeshivot must do more to curb smoking. I’ve heard of various yeshivot banning it outright, which is the correct thing to do. But doing so creates other problems. Kids are kids and they naturally gravitate towards mischief. Smoking has, for a long time, been the accepted yeshivish mischief. After all society frowns upon it, and smoking flouts that norm. But it isn’t dangerous in a ruchniout sense. Thus it was tolerated in yeshivot; as a “kosher” way to be bad. Remove smoking, and kids will replace it with something else. I think that is a big concern in yeshivot and why they don’t do more to ban smoking.December 4, 2008 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #633062MoshejoeMember
If you smoke nowadays, you have to be rich. Who can afford to spend $ 7 and $ 8 a pack? If you smoke two packs a day, that’s about a $ 100 a week.December 4, 2008 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #633064yeshivishHakMember
Moshejoe, they still cost about $2.50 from duty free, Indian reserves and other online sources…I’m glad to see you dont smoke…December 4, 2008 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #633065tzippiMember
re cantoresq: by mischief I assume you don’t mean healthy outlet, but a way to bend the rules without getting into trouble (or, unhealthy outlet). I can’t believe that this is the concern of the yeshivas. Do they think that then the boys will turn to other unhealthy outlets, like drinking or girls? Why not focus on giving them healthy outlets? Actually, I think the words I’m groping for are, breathing room.December 4, 2008 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #633066cantoresqMember
re cantoresq: by mischief I assume you don’t mean healthy outlet, but a way to bend the rules without getting into trouble (or, unhealthy outlet). I can’t believe that this is the concern of the yeshivas. Do they think that then the boys will turn to other unhealthy outlets, like drinking or girls? Why not focus on giving them healthy outlets? Actually, I think the words I’m groping for are, breathing room.
Posted 2 hours ago #
I should confess that the idea was expressed to me by more than one mechanech and a rosh yeshiva in New Jersey. And yes smoking is considered to be a “kosher” unhealthy outlet. After all it’s safer (at the time of doing it)than drikning or drugs, not nearly as religiously problmatic as girls or inappropriate media entertainments and not illegal like vandalism etc. Regarding healtht outlets, they lack the “bad” aspect and therefore don’t fulfil a teenage boy’s desire to act out of the box. Personally, I think a clandestine newspaper would be a great substitute for smoking in yeshivot.December 4, 2008 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #633067
If the boys in Yeshivah need a healthy outlet, let them have a lot more physical activity, gym class, ball-playing, to let off some steam. Don’t look at the time spent as bitul Torah, but more as V’nishmartem m’od es nafshoseichem.December 5, 2008 12:55 am at 12:55 am #633068
Smoking is an oral addiction. Try something healthier like chewing on stalk of celery, or a carrot, liquorice is helpful.. These are non addictive and less expensive alternatives to smoking.December 5, 2008 4:17 am at 4:17 am #633069
not pashut: i think Joseph was referring to the teenage/adolescent boys that smoke because they think its cool, cuz it looks real sharp to be hanging out on ave J with a cigarette dangling out of his mouth.
i highly doubt that Joseph was implying that the rabbanim you mentioned were c’v baalei gaava.December 5, 2008 8:17 am at 8:17 am #633070
Bais Yaakov maydel,
I understand that as well I just wanted him to clarify that it’s not INTRINSICALLY Ga’ava, cause then we’d have a big kushya from the gedolim.December 5, 2008 8:44 am at 8:44 am #633072mamashtakahMember
If you have a Rav, Rosh Yeshiva, or Rebbe who allows smoking, perhaps it’s time to find a new Rav, Rosh Yeshiva, or Rebbe.December 5, 2008 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #633073Mayan_DvashParticipant
mamashtakah, you’ll need to stress what is meant by “Rebbes who allow smoking” or this will turn into a huge argument, people citing Gedolim who smoked etc. I had a Rebbi who smoked (and was probably addicted) , probably well before the studies came out regarding the hazards of smoking. I bet, if someone would ask him he would be against smoking.December 5, 2008 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #633074
Rav Yaakov Kamenetsky used to smoke. The moment he found out that it MIGHT be unhealthy, he went cold turkey. In europe it was normal to smoke and no one knew of any related health issues. things have changed, however. Rav Yaakov was very disturbed when a bachur would smoke.December 5, 2008 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #633075madshtarkMember
Just to be clear I do not condone smoking. However, I don’t think that the problem lies in smoking in it of itself. Teenagers will always look to be I will say cool or rebellious. If it’s not smoking then it’s girls if its not girls then it will be something else. It’s always easier to say that someone shouldn’t do this or that, but there are so few “acceptable” outlets where they can get away. I say acceptable because it can actually be OK but just might be frowned upon in some areas.December 5, 2008 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #633076ChachamParticipant
Smoking Is 100% assur. No heter whatsoever. R` shmuel kaminetzky said there is no heter for purim and it is a yom simcha so please keep that way.
other rabbomim include
R yitzchok zilberstein
R chaim kanievsky
and a lot more rabbonim
r moshe shterbuch paskened it is assur that they will be
emes make a gezeirah about smoking, but ein gozrin gzeirah al hatzibur shein rov ha
tzibur yochul laamud buh
???? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ??”? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ??December 5, 2008 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #633077David S.Member
I think smoking is a real problem, and saying gedolim in previous generations did it is no excuse whatsoever, because people didn’t know back then that smoking was bad, it was just a habit! Yeshiva bachurim now are well-informed enough to know that smoking is bad and harmful to the body that HaShem gave you, and He wants one to take care of it!
Thanks, DavidDecember 7, 2008 1:59 am at 1:59 am #633078
Like I said in my earlier post smoking is an oral addiction. The question is how can we help, not condemn or blame people who smoke? Rosh Yeshivas, Doctors, Social Workers…We need your input now to help curtail this insidious addiction. Not only is it an expensive habit, but it also a health hazard for the smoker. Not to mention innocent others` who are forced to breathe second hand smoke.December 7, 2008 9:02 am at 9:02 am #633080amichaiParticipant
What is wrong with boys staying home with their families on purim? Maybe this is where we have to come out strongly to the oilam. Let them go to their Rabbeim a little bit,but they should really be around us for the yomtov. Everyone will say I’m not being realistic, but we have to change our way of thinking. Purim with the family is beautiful! You don’t have to look outside for fun. And it’s definitely safer!December 7, 2008 11:55 am at 11:55 am #633081lesschumrasParticipant
Excessive drinking on Purim is NOT ok, especially combined with the fact that they drive from house to house, drinking at each one. L’Havdil. 25 years ago the head of the Brooklyn Diocese stopped closing their schools on St Patrick’s Day because too many students were getting drunk at the parade.December 7, 2008 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #633082
Torahis1: im saddened that you think that rabbonim/rebbeim actually get “smashed” up on Purim. ive seen enough rebbeim/rabbonim drinking on Purim to tell you that when they drink, they absolutely DO NOT get “smashed”–they are just VERY happy, to the point where “ad bli dai”–but they know their limits. you can say the talmidim TAKE the fact that their rebbeim are drinking and use it as an excuse to go on a drinking binge, without limits–but the REBBEIM limit themeselves. they fail to see this, or they ignore it.December 8, 2008 3:58 am at 3:58 am #633085
Is drinking alcohol on Purim a Minhag or Halacha? If I prefer to drink Mitz Anavin instead is this acceptable? Drinking and Driving on Purim is not safe, unless someone is appointed the Designated Driver.December 8, 2008 4:07 am at 4:07 am #633086
The person appointed Designate Driver would not imbibe. Driving a vehicle is a privilege not a right. Safety and responsibility are the key here.December 8, 2008 4:36 am at 4:36 am #633087
i didnt say the boys act like their rebbeim; they’re just watching their rebbeim drink, and so use it as a license to drink also, but to drink A LOT, and they fail to see that the rebbeim are not going overboard, as they maybe would like to imagine, to use as an excuse. do you see the difference?December 8, 2008 5:36 am at 5:36 am #633088anon for thisParticipant
Bais Yaakov maydel,
You are most likely correct that most rebbeim don’t drink too much. But if their talmidim are unable to see this, and use the fact that the rebbeim drink to justify drinking too much, perhaps the rebbeim have a responsibility to drink much less.
Also, isn’t it illegal to serve alcohol to anyone under 21?
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