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So I was Davening in this Shul today. And the women’s section had a lot of teenagers there.So girls went to Shul instead of sleeping in and wasting time. Great. And some had Lulavim and Esrogim. Fine. Women want to be Yotzei Mitzvos that they’re not Chayav in. Nothing wrong with that. Then, during Hoshanos, all the men were circling the Bimah. So a few (4 or 5) of these girls felt left out. So they started walking around the women’s section. Which was stupid. They don’t have a Bimah to circle. The were just walking in stupid circles. But then they got stupider. The men had to go outside the doors into the lobby because there were too many of us and we had to make a circle. So these 5 girls decided that they would walk outside the doors into the lobby also, because… (I have no idea why).
(I have no idea why).
Feminists. The whole shtick. Even having a lulav and even coming to shul itself. That they went overboard, demonstrates it all.
Some of them were sleeping in because they were up until 2 A.M. making chlupshes and kreplach, ahem hem.
These type of things generally happen only in certain shuls. And I wouldn’t daven in those shuls in general, as these meshuganas are tolerated — and often even worse. It says something about a person who would daven in such a shul, even if he doesn’t actively participate in such a travesty.
OneOfMany: Do you suppose the two are one and the same?
Ummm, maybe you should spend less time looking into the women’s section and more time on your davening?
Seriously, Sam 2, I didn’t expect this from you. While I do agree that women having a lulav and esrog is a bit much, keep your eyes in your own section. There is nothing wrong with girls going to shul. If they didnt go people would complain that they never go. No matter what we do, we always get criticized, ain’t that right?
Feminism coming from anywhere is a spit upon the Torah and society itself.
That doesn’t make them feminists. That just makes them stupid.
Shkoyach for being maybe the first person on this site to make this very seminal distinction. -_-
QB has a point, though. You can’t call whatever we do that keeps us home “wasting time,” and also criticize those who would try to use their time “effectively.” You are right that what they did was dumb, but mixed messages are what make people do dumb things like these.
Today I was Queen Bee, and I gave my nephew my esrog and said eat it… So he did. he didn’t like it very much
whats popa got to do with it?
I was there. I was the guy throwing esrogim at them.
“They don’t have a Bimah to circle. The were just walking in stupid circles.”
First off, they were probably simply copying what the men were doing because they assumed that was the correct way to do things. Watching and learning, without understanding, which is not all that different from what most men are doing. You went around, they went around. You went outside for part of the circuit, so did they. Probably sincere individuals whose only fault is ignorance. Just like most of their male counterparts on your side of the ‘tza.
Second, what a doorknob. Going around the bimah is a stupid circle too. We used to walk around the mizbeach, but now we do the best we can to remind ourselves of that. So who says that if they walk around a chumash on a table in their section thay they are any more stupid than you walking around a scroll on a bimah? A sincere argument can be made that the zecher is equal. Wrong maybe, but sincere.
really squeak? the difference is that the minhag of circling the bima is brought down in halacha, while their walking in circles is just stupidity.
I agree with you that they are probably reasonably well meaning, but I agree that about most of such people that I make fun of on this forum.
Bar Shattya, actually, we peeled our esrogim and added them to the apple sauce, and we plan on making jam with the rest. And don’t call me stupid.
Sam 2, whether or not they were dumb, I don’t really appreciate you calling them dumb. I don’t know them, but it’s not very nice. You have no idea why they did what they did. Maybe they want to celebrate? There aren’t many ways women and girls can partake in these mitzvos, other than spending 5 hours in the kitchen preparing food that, by the way, you men love to scarf down. And yeah, maybe they were really dumb, so what? Why the bashing on girls? I don’t see any of the female posters bashing down on the guys.
But whatever, you guys are just having fun, so I’ll step out.
Also, just to nitpick: You weren’t Popa until you also came online and started a thread about it with an ambiguous title. So really, you should have written: “Today I am Popa”.
qb: I hope these weren’t the esrogim from yom tov, which are typically assur to be eaten until after yt is over…
I beg to differ. If those were his thoughts as it happened, than he was popa.
OOM – when he said they were in shul instead of sleeping in or wasting time, he meant (I am SURE) the ones who DON’T make chalupchas and stuff. He didn’t say being home was wasting time, he said that that is what some of them do at home.
Syag: I get annoyed when people encourage girls’ going to shul over “wasting time at home.” If they are wasting time at home, then they should be encouraged not to waste time at home. I think that by telling them to go to shul, you further exacerbating this problem by encouraging them (though unintentionally) to see their going to shul of more value than their helping out at home. Which is I think a major impetus in their being confused and doing dumb things.
I am of course not saying this out of some warped desire to keep women shut up in their homes. I think it quite praiseworthy for a woman to go to shul, etc., but only if she can do it in conjunction with her other responsibilities.
OOM – I don’t disagree. I was just trying to be dan lkaf zchus that he wasn’t insulting anyone.
You got me thinking though, I am not really sure where I stand on this whole thing, I have boys and I send them to shul when they are ready to daven but not before then. My daughter used to go to shul every week but doesn’t always. Even if she doesn’t go, sleeping in is not an option. Do I think she should go? I’m not sure anymore. Whether or not she is helping me isn’t really the issue, whether or not she davens is. And depending on what you do/think/hear in shul, maybe staying home isn’t so bad.
Sam2 IS very ????? on ????? ????? and rightly so. Because of that he did not realise that it was actually men he could see in the ladies shul. They were late for davening and too embarrassed to enter the main shul. Their actions are now completely understood 🙂
what are you doing looking in the womens section
ca: The women watch the men dance so it’s only fair and equal to do the reverse.
Were you Popa again though?
To all those asking why is looking in womens section: just how high and opaque do you think the mechitza is in this shul? And its kind of hard to not notice a torah being taken to women’s section. Give the guy a break.
Also, that sounds like more a zecher l’churban than a zecher l’mizbeach to me.
(That’s how you be Popa)
well considering that sam sounds like a talmid chacham, generally i would say very high, additionally that helps for this year what about last year
I wanted to be popa too.
Popa gets to do all kinds of fun things, like snowboarding, eating square pizza in the Midtown Manhattan section of New York State, doing beshows, sneaking out of them and maching heimish in the Brooklyn pizza shops.
But, I dunno even what snowboarding is (I assume there’s some snow involved, and maybe an executive committee).
So, I had my wife become chassidish, and we did a beshow together, and we snuck out, and we ate square pizza in a kosher pizza shop owned by genuine Italian Jews and run by a genuine Farsi Jew who machs good heimish, and I posted it on YWN and I tried to see what it feels like to be popa.
I’ll let you know when I figure it out.
And my wife didn’t particularly like the square pizza.
Maybe Mendelssohn’s next time.
But, I dunno even what snowboarding is (I assume there’s some snow involved, and maybe an executive committee).
It’s basically a colder version of waterboarding.
That doesn’t sound too pleasant. I’ll stick to trying to be like popa l’gabay pizza.
I’ll stick to trying to be like popa l’gabay pizza.
I’m waiting to taste your chicago style then.
What’s wrong with doing the circling in the ezras nashim? If it makes them happy, good for them. It’s not against halacha, so let them do what they want even if you think it’s stupid.
So now that this thread is back again, I see a discussion between OneOfMany and Syag Lchochma about women going to shul in the first place. So I decided to quote the Iggeres Hagra:
??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????
However, he also says:
????? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ?”? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????
???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ?????
?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ??”? ?? ????? ????? ??’ ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???
so perhaps men shouldn’t go to shul either.
Of course, one could argue that neither of these two statements are applicable to us.
So I decided to check out Sam2’s (in)famous shul this past Shabbos. I got there right before Zachor and I saw a yeshiva guy and a modern girl by the bimah vociferously arguing about something. The girl was supposed to be the one to lain Zachor but the boy was claiming that it’s assur for a girl to lain. The girl responded by quoting Megilla 23a:
?”? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????
To which the guy said that no one actually holds l’maaseh that a woman can read the Torah. So the girl said “The Netiv Moshe on p. 24 in footnote 112 writes: ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????.”
The guy said that we obviously don’t pasken like the Netiv Moshe, but he couldn’t convince her, so then he came from a different angle. He told her that there’s a shitah that women are patur from Zachor and therefore she can’t be motzi the men, thus she must let him read it. She responded that aderabba, that’s the reason why she has to read it and he can’t. The guy apparently thought she was joking so she went to the shelf and got a Sefer Hachinuch and opened it to Mitzvah 603 and read aloud:
?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?????
She then explained:
“In my circles women serve in the army, so we are now obligated in Zachor as well. You’re a yeshiva guy so you are patur from the army; mimayla you are patur from Zachor as well. Therefore, I can be motzi you but you can’t be motzi me.”
Finally someone suggested that they just ask the Rabbi. But the shul had no Rabbi. Meanwhile some Teimani dude sauntered over and said “This argument is pointless. Neither of you can be motzi anyone because you ashkenazim don’t know how to pronounce Hebrew words.” So we had a Teimani Zachor.
Then I realized why Sam keeps on coming back to this shul. The entertainment is awesome.
But we still haven’t figured out who is popa today.
Are you doubting that my story really happened?
The Goq/PAA: You stole half of that from a Purim Pashkevil put up in KBY last year, which said that all the Chareidim have to hear Zachor from a Hesder guy because Chareidim are Patur from the army.
Nu, I made the joke two years ago re machatzis hashekel http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/do-chareidim-have-to
Nu, I made the joke two years ago re machatzis hashekel
I think I out-trolled you on this one.
So yesterday, I was Popa. I got to say “??? ????? ????? ???” to a woman named Chulda.
Itche – The problem with your line is the Gemmorah was making a pun. Because “Chulda” was a Neviah! Your Chulda probably isn’t, unless she’s a Cheresh, Shotah or Ketanna.
The square pizza place is no longer.
Alas, true. But, they started making an oval personal pie, with three toppings on it, and it was excellent.
I did not feel like popa when I ate it, though.
I have not had it. Perhaps on Friday before Rosh Hashana.
Health: As was I. Why would I say something like that if I didn’t get the joke?
Itche – Your line is not funny – because -“Chulda” was a Neviah! Your Chulda probably isn’t, unless she’s a Cheresh, Shotah or Ketanna”
So what is your joke?
ItcheSrulik, don’t bother explaining.
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