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Hi there. I am an on again, off again visitor to this site, and I have been for several years. Like most of you, I have been sometimes frustrated and sometimes encouraged by the sheer variety of opinions found here, and I’ve enjoyed the often lively debates featured here in the Coffee Room.
I just wanted to share some observations of my own with you guys, and I’d like you all to comment or add as you see fit. Perhaps this will be eye-opening for you, perhaps it will not. The beautiful thing about this forum is that a new topic can be many things to many people.
Basically, I’m poor. Destitute. Struggling. I have a wife and one child, with another child on the way. Through an incredibly unlucky few years, I have had the misfortune of being dealt blows to my finances that I have not recovered from. It’s a long story, and I’m not here to be a tzedaka collector, so I won’t be sharing the fine details. Suffice it to say, it’s gotten so bad that I have finally crossed a line I hoped never to cross: “schnorring” in the streets.
I am not your textbook schnorrer, which is probably why people always seem somewhat taken aback and suspicious when I ask them to help me and my family. I dress as respectably as I can, and I am well-spoken and polite. Collecting has given me the dubious “fortune” of being able to examine a sizable cross-section of the Jewish community as they are asked to give tzedaka in its rawest form, and the following are some statements and observations that I have made.
1. It’s astonishing how selectively deaf people suddenly become. I know you’re a busy, important man who doesn’t have time for schnorrers, but is a simple human acknowledgement or a “Sorry, I can’t spare anything right now” REALLY so much to ask?
2. Look, I know you mean well, but PLEASE try to give more than 75 cents or a dollar. Understand that I wouldn’t be out in the streets collecting if a dollar was all it took to solve my problems. Understand that I sometimes need twenty or thirty dollars just to start with, which means I need to get a “yes” from twenty or thirty people. Have you ever tried asking twenty or thirty complete strangers for anything? Try it sometime.
3. And, for G-d’s sake, if you simply must give a dollar, please don’t also take up twenty minutes of my time lecturing me on what I’m supposed to do as fifteen other potential benefactors pass me by. When one is as desperate as I am, time is literally money. If you’re going to shanghai me into a conversation, make it worth my while.
4. For those of you who feel the need to BERATE me for trying to put food on my family’s table…well, you can go fly a kite. To the fellow who called me a con artist during the Nine Days: you are the reason we are still in galus. To the fellow who convinced his friend not to help me by referring to me as a “scammer” right to my face: may Hashem show you the same mercy in your time of need as you’ve shown me. Do you think I do this for kicks? To the fellow who yelled at me in public that he does not accept “street solicitations” and wants to “save his money for organizations,” well, I’m speechless. Have you forgotten what tzedaka is actually all about?
5. Finally, there are a rare few of you that need mention. There was the complete stranger who actually took me door to door through his neighborhood, collecting on my behalf. There was the guy who bought groceries for me at the store and gave me gas money on the way out. There was the guy who actually tried to call his (apparently well-off) brother in Israel to ask if he could send money to me, a complete stranger.
On another level, there are those who can’t help, but are sweet and kind about it; people who seem genuinely sorry and who show that to me clearly. These people are the only reason I haven’t completely lost faith in Klal Yisroel and decided that there isn’t a single person left in the world that is capable of displaying that legendary Jewish character trait of mercy.
I am in a lot of pain, rabosai. Please do me a favor and at least don’t make the pain worse.
Your thoughts?
Thank you for sharing. You must indeed be in a lot of pain, and it’s quite valuable to hear your perspective.
Some of those you encountered were inexcusably rude. Others, however,
you judge unfairly.
There’s no excuse to berate you, especially in public. Kol hamalbin p’nei chavero barabim…
Not everyone, though, can afford to give every collector more than a dollar, and although you need the money, I don’t know. that you should be judging someone else’s financial condition. Besides, unless someone knows your position first hand, it might be unwise to give more than a token donation. You may be legit, but there certainly are some who are not. hakrdos. How would someone know?
I wish you much hatzlocho, and may Hashem bless you that you no longer need to come on to “matnas basar vadam”, ki im l’yado ham’leia, hap’suchah, hak’dosha v’ har’chava.
First of all, I am very sad to hear that you’re having such difficult time. I would love to say that I feel your pain, but I’ve never been in your shoes to truly understand the hardships you are going through. I will try to offer advice, if it’s worth anything.
1. If you need food for the family, there are plenty of organizations that specialize in exactly that. There are also soup kitchens.
2. There are ways to get rid of debt, whether through bankruptcy or through other means.
3. If I understood you correctly, you are pulling in a measly $20-30 a day in schnorring. If thats true, is it really better than working for minimum wage at a job that is slightly more dignifying?
4. Do you have an close friends that can raise funds for you? I did this for a family I know and I brought in about $2,000 in just a couple of days, while also managing to raise attention of the family’s plight to a bunch of askanim. BH, they are on their way to getting back up on their feet again.
5. There is nothing good to say about those in #1. At best I would be Dan lekaf zchus that they see hundreds like you a day, and have become numb. Maybe that is Hashems test for them in this world.
6. Its really hard to expect someone that doesn’t know you to give you more than a couple dollars. Is it really possible to go around, verifying the authenticity of each and every schnorrer? And is it either possible for someone to gave $30 to every schnorrer that walks around? People gave big money to organizations because they trust them. People give a dollar or two to a schnorrer “just in case” they are honest.
7. Sign up for every form of government aid.
You came here wanted people to applaud your “schnorring”
Without sounding mean if I was in your circumstance this is what I would do
1) Go directly to DSS and apply for Food Stamps, WIC Section 8, HEAP, Welfare SSI Medicaid and any other government program there is , Just to be able to pay some bills and be able to put some food on the table and pay rent.
2) After I had at least some backup Id start to look for a JOB. Instead of schorring people for money, how about Schnorring them for a JOB. Id be spending all my time browsing the job websites asking anyone I know about a job. Id walk into stores and ask to fill out a job application (Most jobs arent advertised)
No offense here , but you say you are destitude and your wife is pregnant. I realize Hashem helps, but if things are really that bad, it might be better to wait until things get a little better before having more kids, Did you at least apply for Medicaid and WIC . What if its a difficult pregnacy, what about if your wife needs a C-Section. Kids are always going to the doctor.
Your post truly made me sad. I am sorry that you and your family are going through such tough times. I feel that after reading this is can learn a thing or two about how I react when solicited for money on the streets. The truth is often times I don’t even respond with more than a half smile. Where I live there are at least 4 people (Jews) begging for money within 4 blocks of my apartment everyday. When I say I don’t carry cash, I mean that I literally never have cash , save a few quarters that I need for parking. I am not in your shoes but this year has been a rough one financially and giving more than a dollar to each person if I carried cash that is, would not be possible. Before you unfavorably judge the people who don’t give you just keep in mind; they probably have maaser already, they probably give money to their local yeshiva/school/tzedaka fund, and they are probably just making ends meet after putting their children through the yeshiva system.
I agree with the above posters about looking into financial aid. This is a circumstance which is deserving. People abuse the system, it is for people who really need it and need the support like you. I don’t know If I can post names but I have the name of a woman who deals with WIC I’m Brooklyn and queens, she is a family friend. Lots of Hatzlacha and I hope Hashem blesses you with parnassah in the new ( secular) year.
Without sounding mean if I was in your circumstance this is what I would do
1) Go directly to DSS and apply for Food Stamps, WIC Section 8, HEAP, Welfare SSI Medicaid and any other government program there is , Just to be able to pay some bills and be able to put some food on the table and pay rent.
2) After I had at least some backup Id start to look for a JOB. Instead of schorring people for money, how about Schnorring them for a JOB. Id be spending all my time browsing the job websites asking anyone I know about a job. Id walk into stores and ask to fill out a job application (Most jobs arent advertised)
I have to second this. The US is a medinah shel chessed, and they will help if asked.
Hatzlacha on finding something.
FYI the Kosher Soup Kitchen is called Masbia
There is one in Rego Park, NY, Williamsburg and I think Borough Park
D B-M, in one word- daven!
Before you get upset, let me tell you I was quite upset myself with how other posters made assumptions: you have no job, you’re not looking for a job, you don’t have the brains to apply for public assistance, etc etc. So I’m not trying to jump on the overcrowded bandwagon and make the most insulting assumption of all- that you ch”v do not daven. Just asking you to keep in mind that the key to parnassa is not in the hands of the Government of the United States, or the posters of the CR. Lipa seems to be out of favor here, but he may have been on to something with his “heib auf deine h…”.
I think it would be kind of all of us to have you, and anyone else who approaches us for financial help, in our tefillos. I understand that people are not always eager or able to open their wallets- fear of being scammed, fear of strangers, lack of funds; a sincere heartfelt prayer can never hurt. And there is never any excuse for turning a disagreeable chilly face to another person.
Rent (or mortgage) is a killer expense that government does not help with. Section 8 is closed to new receipients, and has been so for well over a decade. (At least in NYC.)
David Bar-Magen-
Here’s something from today’s paper. I’m not sure if it’s helpful, but it can’t hurt, and the price is right ? :
Placement Firm Gives Free Advice
Looking to kick-start your job search when the new year kicks in?
(source: NY Daily News)
============================
OP, i’m so sorry for your painful financial situation, and even more sorry for the way ppl have treated you.
ZahavasDad, really???
All that accomplishes for me is keeping me steadily destitute instead of homeless. WITH Food Stamps, WITH WIC and WITH Medicaid, I still am not bringing in enough to meet our needs
With all due respect, perhaps you should see a financial planner to see where you can “slim down” so that you can live within your means? I have no idea of what your finances are, but someone who has a job and is on government programs should have enough not to be “steadily destitute”. Rent, medical and food should all be taken care of by the government. Are you supporting an SIL in Kollel? I know of people who collect to support their sons in law, and it is terrible. If that is the case, you have to stop.
There is a Masbia on Coney Island Avenue between J and K. They serve ANYONE and the place looks like a restaurant.
And, David Bar-Magen, there’s an organization called Metropolitan Council on Jewish Poverty. They are located at 80 Maiden Lane in Manhattan. They can help with emergency rent/heat/food expenses as well as job seeking and job training skills.
GAW, from DBM’s OP: I have a wife and one child, with another child on the way. Doesn’t sound like he’s holding out an eidim in kollel (but you just had to get that in, right? 😉 )
ICOT, you’re right on the mark.
Gavra: is it too much to ask to read the opening post before commenting? When someone states he has a child and another on the way where does a SIL come into the picture? He probably has personal loans to pay off, and/or working for low pay. Kollel bashing is way off base here.
We give a little bit to those who ask, we don’t check to their stories, and cut conversation short, lest we induce them to lie. If they don’t really need the money, BH. But you are suggesting we give 20-30$ every day to anyone who asks? Did you give out money like that, when you were well-off? If so, how many times were you taken advantage of?
Most people will gladly write checks when someone we trust talks to us. Let me tell you an interesting fact of life: only a small fraction of those who truly need and deserve help, will ask for it. Lots of people will do the impossible, beg for work everywhere and cut every expense, even essential ones, but do not ask, and if ever they receive any help it’s because some kind soul, usually by chance, stumbles upon their predicament and becomes aware. If you feel insulted by two dollars, to the point you basically curse those who open their wallet (likely for the umpteenth time in the day), I am very sorry, but I can not help it. One last thing: I happen to see people who are in desperate need themselves and yet open their wallet and give a dollar to a fellow jew.
I feel for you. I struggle a lot also with finances, since I need to pay for school.
Masbia and Oneg Shabbos//Tomchei Shabbos are a good idea. Also, there are quite a few vocational training programs out there.
rent (or mortgage) is a killer expense that government does not help with. Section 8 is closed to new receipients, and has been so for well over a decade. (At least in NYC.)
There is no Chiyuv to live in NYC. Meshane Makom Meshane Mazal.
Recent times have been tough financially on almost everyone I know. Even people who are fortunate enough to have six-figure salaries have difficulty paying for all their expenses.
Tuition hurts everyone. Rebbes need to be paid too.
A OTD Bochur of Rav Chaim Brisker saw him after he became OTD and said, Rebbe I have many questions
Rav Chaim said, Ill answer your questions on condition you had these questions before you were OTD, otherwise they are EXCUSES.
OP said when he schnoors he is upset when people only give him $1 instead of $20 . He calls the giver CHEAP for not given the $20. He should be happy the giver gives whatever they give even if its a Penny.
Government does not accept any new Section 8 cases to pay rent (unless you are a battered woman) in NYC and other places.
With all due respect, perhaps you should see a financial planner to see where you can “slim down” so that you can live within your means? I have no idea of what your finances are, but someone who has a job and is on government programs should have enough not to be “steadily destitute”. Rent, medical and food should all be taken care of by the government
gavra-at-work: It is not only possible but happens pretty often. Rent isn’t taken care of by the government in most cases, food is supplemented, at best, but not even close to meeting the needs of a kosher family (with no free school lunches). Clothing, school ‘stuff’ and tzitzis alone are huge expenses that are funded barely or not at all.
It may be hard for many to understand but slimming down is for people who have money and use it poorly. People whose incomes, with assistance, are still $1000 per month short on a regular, non-yom tov and non-clothes buying month can’t ‘slim down’. I work with an organization that helps provide things to those who need and I see it often. You (the generic ‘you’) can make a lot of assumptions but it is the sad reality. Thank Hashem that it is so hard for you to understand.
DBM: That being said, Daas Yochid made much of my points, be grateful for those dollars, you have no idea how hard they were for some people to scrape together.
I join those who promise to daven for you and for all the rest of us who suffer from destitution in so many different areas of Hashem’s blessings. May this new child be born in health and bring your family nachas, simcha and parnassa.
Government does not accept any new Section 8 cases to pay rent (unless you are a battered woman) in NYC and other places.
As quotes there is no Chiyuv Mitzvah to live in NYC. Baltimore is much cheaper. Scranton, PA is much cheaper. Detroit is super cheap. Cleveland is Cheap
Gavra: is it too much to ask to read the opening post before commenting? When someone states he has a child and another on the way where does a SIL come into the picture? He probably has personal loans to pay off, and/or working for low pay. Kollel bashing is way off base here.
Except that that is Pumpt the person who I am thinking of (SIL in Kollel & more children on the way), I would agree. Being that I’ve seen it, I wouldn’t say not. I missed the part about “one child” though, and wouldn’t have mentioned it had I seen that.
C”V that “Bashing Kollel” comes into play. However, when you have your FIL collect so that you can remain in Kollel, that goes way beyond the pale.
Actually, you bring up a good point. People in Kollel learn to be “Mistapek B’muat”, or live with less (which is an awesome Middah to have). The OP could probably learn from Kollel members how to get his finances under control.
Just when I was starting to get really uncomfortable with the tone of some of these posts, (as I sometimes do, I must admit, but you less than sweet & friendly posters can just tell me, “if you can’t stand the heat…”) along came Syag L and ended his (or her) piece with such a beautiful paragraph.
Thanks Syag!
Syag:
Without more information I can’t tell you right or wrong, but it is certainly worth a try. Assuming the OP makes 25K a year (which he could do working in Wal Mart or Target) and gets FS, WIC & Medical, rent @ 1K a month, I still don’t see it. Maybe high student loans are involved (Blame Bush for those).
Besides, a CFP would help eliminate waste & perhaps suggest some new ideas. Sell on Ebay. Post flyers. Pick up older items from bakeries. Switch to energy efficent lightbulbs (HEAP?). There are lots of ways to scratch out a little more, and people sometimes just need their eyes opened.
Ongoing governmental rental assistance is unavailable in most of the U.S. Besides, a poor person should not be thrown out of town since he cannot afford to live in the area and he is G-d forbid told to move elsewhere.
A CFP doesn’t want to work with an ani. They want clients that they can make a commission off.
I know this because I am studying to be a CPA and CFP.
Besides, a poor person should not be thrown out of town since he cannot afford to live in the area and he is G-d forbid told to move elsewhere.
Interesting. Source? Halacha allows a landlord to remove someone who doesn’t pay rent, poor or not.
(If you want, start a new thread, as this is a Halachic discussion).
A CFP doesn’t want to work with an ani. They want clients that they can make a commission off.
IIRC there is a frum Org. that does this for free. I can’t remember the name offhand, but I do remember reading about it. Perhaps someone else here can help out by remembering.
gaw – I know it’s right cuz I see it everyday, whether or not you believe it is a separate issue 🙂 Obviously it is too complicated of a subject to hash out in a chat room but you are welcome to talk to our volunteer CFP’S next time you are in town!
As a general aside, not many people making $25K with only one kid will qualify for any assistance at all, and I don’t even know of any studio’s for as low as $1K a month. I will tell you that in one case scenario there was a couple who had plenty of money and job security until someone needed a surgery/treatment that wasn’t covered, and their job, savings and support system disappeared within months with lots of debt left behind. It happens.
Golfer: Thanks! (I too can’t always take the heat and send myself out of the kitchen)
Firstly, chazal tell us “ain oni ella b’da’as” – poverty/poorness is merely a mindset. If you are someach b’chelko, you will instantly become wealthy.
Secondly, there are many who give tzedaakah tthrough their rabbonim – if you belong to a kehillah, speak to your rav – he can and will help you get tzeddakah b’kovod.
Thirdly, once you become a “oiver al hapsochim” -collecting on the streets, the chiyuv of tzedakah is actually DOWNGRADED to giving you a lesser amount than if you are not panhandling! As such, YOU are to blame for those who give you only a token amount, as is the halocha.
Fourthly, everyone has a tafkid in his lot in life. The malach was gozer on you to be a chochom or tiesh, onie or osheer etc, it is predestined and THAT is your shlichus and nisayon which you must be mikabel b’simcha instead of judging others. Many gedolim suffered extensive poverty and they were able to grow into our gedolim.
Finally, since you are not busy working, maybe join a kollel so that you will have zchus hatorah to enrich your life with ruchniyus.
In case you wonder: Kesef mina lon? The gashmiyus follows, by others who want the great zchus to partner with you by being the zevulunm, supporting your learning with kovod.
My $0.02 based on many years of Torah study lishmah.
shmendrik and zdad- your achzuriyus is astounding. your failure to express any pain is disgusting. shame on you both.
An ayzah tovah is worth more than a dozen meaningless oy vays and sighs. My aytzos are emes, as they come from dedication to toras emes. The oy vays and sighs come from belly aches.
Please ignore Shmendrick.
A. He is a troll.
B. He’s a Popa wanna be. But he’ll never be Popa ‘cuz Popa is funny in his trolliness. This guy is just annoying troll.
C. His angle sounds very much like Joseph’s did in his very early days of the coffeeroom.
schmendrik, you may be technically halachically and hashkafically right, but do you even hear what you’re saying? i wonder if you think you were giving someone chizuk, because you were way harsh, which has no place here.
Shmendrick-My $0.02 based on many years of Torah study lishmah
Off topic but boy would i love to give you a farherr to see how much your “Torah study lishmah” has made you a lamdan. It certainly hasn’t helped your middos. Instead of kabbala, learn a little Messilas Yesharim, Then you will at least realize you haven’t learned “many years of Torah study lishmah”
and be more sumpathetic to a fellow yid in pain.
Frankly, there is a problem with this story. It may be a troll seeing how we respond, or OP may need some help with mental or social issues.
Can someone check this out? If he needs help of any sort, there are those who can give him help. If he is trolling, I have no words for him except those I cannot post here.
Zdad and Schmendrick are responding as usual. One clearly is on the fringes of the dalet amois of Torah, and the other one is a joker looking for attention.
thebearisback, i’m glad you chose to edit your words, though you could have edited further. do you know that i visibly flinched at your pre-edited version??
Suffice it to say that I flinched at:
“2. Look, I know you mean well, but PLEASE try to give more than 75 cents or a dollar.”
What I don’t know, because I am far, far away, is whether this is a sign of an emotional problem, or whether this is a troll post.
What I forgot is that someone, somewhere must know who this is and can check the situation.
David Bar-Magen
I know my sympathy doesn’t help you, but I am so sorry about your predicament. (That is, if this isn’t a troll. Sorry but it’s an anonymous post, so there is that possibility)
It must be horrible to go from financially independent to collecting on the streets. Hope things get better soon for you. And until then, may Hashem give you and your wife the courage and strength to do whatever it takes to get your family through this.
May you be zoche to be on the giving end from now on.
“Just as I expect to be given tzedaka with kindness”
You dig your hole deeper and deeper.
Someone please check this guy out and get him some real help.
This man is hurting.
I proudly give to those who ask because I’ve been in the position where I’ve had to ask, too. The Torah commands empathy. We have to put ourselves in the shoes of others.
I am sorry for your obvious pain, and hashem should help you b’korov, especially with another precious neshama coming into the world. I further hope you are able to get a better-paying job, though times are really tough all around right now. I really have no eitzos for you or even words of comfort for what clearly is a terrible nisayon and source of embarrassment to be in the position of publicly asking for money. I sincerely hope you are able to post b’korov that your situation has changed radically for the better.
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