February 1, 2013 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #608037
I am very worried. My son is a great kid. No problems. He is 17, never get’s into any trouble. Straight A student. Learns gemara very well.
Anyways, he tells me he’s planing on going collecting on Purim in a limo with a group of friends.
I have seen those limos on the streets of Flatbush, and they are full of kids at risk (in fact already full of risk), girls, drugs, and god knows what else.
Any advice? Should I tell him no?
Please help!February 1, 2013 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #926109
Collecting Tzedakah from a Limo?February 1, 2013 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #926110
not all those limos are full of kids at risk. You should talk to him about drinking/ saying no etc, then let him go if you think he’ll level headed enough to not send himself to the hospital drunk. Find out who he is going with. You may be surprised to find out its a good groupFebruary 1, 2013 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #926111
perhaps engage his rebbi, since he is such a gevaltige bochur, I’m sure he would take what the rebbi would say to heart. you should have nachas!February 1, 2013 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #926112
If he’s a straight A student AND well behaved in Yeshiva, talk to someone at the Yeshiva. If it’s risky they’ll forbid it and save mothers like you from fighting this fight and keep their kids safe.
If he’s actually collecting for his own Yeshiva, they should make safer arrangements and not even accept this money if ignored – and let the students know all consequences beforehand. Good luck!February 1, 2013 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #926113
kk my brothers the exact same as ur son and is a great kid and he also is planning on going arnd in a limo.. lemme tell u these kids are rlly trying hard 2 raise $$$ and also wana have some fun w their frends on purim!! let him have his fun and also i thiink my parents told him he cud drink last yr bt be careful etc cuz wtvr u say theyr guna anyways drink and better 4 him to have permission from his parents.. also i think a limo is waaaayy safer than drunk yeshiva boys driving him arnd!! think abt the accidents that cud happen w drunk guys… also mayb im just not aware bt i dont think only at risk boys do this…February 1, 2013 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #926114
also if ur worried then def call his rebbe and ask whos going in his group and wtvr.. and ask the rebbe if hes still doing well and stuff..like not at risk..February 1, 2013 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #926115
“and they are full of kids at risk”
It is probably a lot worse if they are full of alcohol. If you dont want him to go, speak to him about it, then speak to his rosh yeshiva about it and see what his thoughts are. it is also important to know who hired the limo etc…February 1, 2013 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #926116
who says there full of at risk kids??February 1, 2013 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #926117
Keep him out of there. Trust me!February 1, 2013 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #926118
I can tell u personally I know that many of those limos are just good groups of boys who want to have fun on purim. NO drugs girls…. They take a lime cuz it makes them feel important and shticky!
I remember just a few years ago from my own collecting days and also from what I see around Boro Park. I x know what your sons group is like but most are just good kids having a grand time.February 1, 2013 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #926119
Maybe your husband, uncle or reliable older cousin can go with him by foot or car.February 1, 2013 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #926120
I was a good kid and we collected each year in a limo. My school allowed only limos as they’re drivers are safer and on Purim that’s important. Even sober drivers can be kind of wilder.
Those limos have in it whoever the group is. If its his good friends then you should t have a. Issue with it. Although you should talk to him about not smoking cigarettes some how on Purim it “ok”February 1, 2013 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #926121
Collecting Tzedakah from a Limo?
I think there was a thread about this somewhere, and one person claimed that it actually comes out cheaper than a van.
…I stand corrected, that poster said it cost the same.February 1, 2013 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #926122
In that thread, Aries made the same point as Think first, that limos are safer.February 1, 2013 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #926123
These days the groups collect so much less than they used to so most of the money will be going to the limo its mamish a waste of tzeddaka money. Furthermore, limos can lead to issues and you have every right to be worried. If you can convince him out of it, thats the best idea. If he is adamant about it you may have a problem.February 1, 2013 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #926124
Your premise is wrong. They are not full of kids at risk. They are full of normal kids.
I don’t know how you expect to raise a child when you are so clueless.
(Sorry for being mean, I’m drunk. Live with it.)February 1, 2013 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #926125
How much does it cost to rent the Limo and the driver?February 1, 2013 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #926126
What is it to you? There is no logical reason why it should make a difference to you.February 1, 2013 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #926127
I don’t know.February 1, 2013 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #926128
What is it to you? There is no logical reason why it should make a difference to you.
If you are going to collect Tzedkah its reasonable to ask what are the overhead costs are and how much of the money you are giving is going to the Tzedkah and how much is going to overhead. (Its unreasonable to except 100% of Tzekah money to go to Tzedkah, but its also reasonable to expect at least 50% (I think thats average of charities) of funds collected to go directly)February 1, 2013 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #926129
Like I said, it makes no difference to you. You are not in charge of the moisad collecting nor will you be contributing anything.
And I wonder where you get your 50% figure from. It’s not a number I have seen, nor is it close to any accepted standard. This statement of yours proves that you asking the question is pointless.February 2, 2013 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #926130
Whether it costs the same or not, a limo is definitely a status symbol of sorts, and as a donor I would give less to those driving a limo around than those walking/in a taxi!February 3, 2013 1:31 am at 1:31 am #926131
I just found out that a relative is going collecting with his friends. The rosh hayeshiva is organizing the limo. He gave them a strong warning against drinking, and the Yeshiva is having a mesiba afterwards.
I’m completely in favor.February 3, 2013 2:04 am at 2:04 am #926132
You obviously dont know anything about Tzedakahs, Nobody has 100% of tzedkah money goes to “Tzedkah directly”, Some of the money goes to things like paying Con-Ed , paying the Non-Jewish Janitor to clean the building, the Secratary who answers the phone etc. Thats where the 50% comes from.
Also many places have fund raisers and many times fund raisers are paid a percetage of the money they raised, If you have gotten any phone solitiations for Tzadakahs, it was likely by a company who is paid by how much they collect.
When you go to a Dinner, do you think 100% of the dinner goes to the Tzedkah. The food isnt free, the room rental isnt free.
Its the same here, How much of the Tzedkah is being used to pay for the Limo and I agree I do think it looks better to collect while walking or a taxi rather than an expesive Limo.
And B’H the Rosh yeshiva Banned drinking, It would not look good if a bunch of Drunk Bochers showed up in a fancy LimoFebruary 3, 2013 2:37 am at 2:37 am #926133
Do boys ever listen to rules?
HAHAHAFebruary 3, 2013 2:41 am at 2:41 am #926134
The limo is probably not much more than a taxi, is safer, and the boys enjoy it more.
Walking is not an option, the houses they are going to are too far apart. Time is also limited, because most homes are not approachable after ten o’clock or so. This is actually one of the most efficient ways of raising funds, because the boys take nothing, the only expense is the car (some rent costumes, but I don’t think this group is).February 3, 2013 2:43 am at 2:43 am #926135
Actually, most do. You just don’t hear about them.February 3, 2013 3:16 am at 3:16 am #926136
Boro Park GirlMember
Finf out who will be going around with him and if they are good boys from good homes with good values, u shouldnt have a problem. Part of the purim fun is the competition of who has a fancier car/limo/rv and who can blare the music louder- most boys do not go anywhere near drugs or strange girls.February 3, 2013 4:00 am at 4:00 am #926137
When alcohol is involved and with loose girls out on the streets looking to cause trouble all bets are off. When I went collecting about 10 years ago there were plenty of issues of guys doing things they would never ever do but yknow its Purim and Purim means free reign to do anything. I remember clearly one Purim we were collecting and these girls just approached us on the streets of Flatbush and asked us “can we check out your limo it looks so so cool” and of course we couldn’t say no…
Its crucial that anyone going in a limo goes with a good group of guys but its certainly something that can lead to trouble.February 3, 2013 4:01 am at 4:01 am #926138
You can get a limo as low as $300-$400/hour (fits upto 10). Those big buses for about $700-$900/hour (fits upto 30).February 3, 2013 4:18 am at 4:18 am #926139
While I find the idea tacky, collecting Tzdekah from a fancy limo I guess as there is no Booze, I guess its OK and let him go. Let him have some fun.
But Make sure there is no Booze, If that means arranging it yourself and having the limo company keep the booze awayFebruary 3, 2013 4:18 am at 4:18 am #926140
Have you ever looked a 990? Would you even know what it says? Have you ever seen the financial statements of a not for profit entity?
I have. And more than just a couple. It is clear that you are just spouting nonsense. I guarantee that I know more about not for profits than you do.
You have no clue at all. That is clear from your comments.February 3, 2013 4:26 am at 4:26 am #926141
I remember clearly one Purim we were collecting and these girls just approached us on the streets of Flatbush and asked us “can we check out your limo it looks so so cool” and of course we couldn’t say no…
You couldn’t say no? Or you didn’t want to say no.
It does not seem that it should be that difficult to say no in that situation. I would have said no quite easily, the same way I would say no if I was approached by any other zona.February 3, 2013 4:30 am at 4:30 am #926142
I have seen them,
Not for profit doesnt mean they dont have expenses. Even Tomche Shabbos is not 100% for feeding the poor, They have a small office and a telephone line. and they have Volunteers, most non-profits have paid employees.
And for the record, Non-Profit doesnt mean it doesnt make money. A yeshiva that owns a popular wedding hall does have income. The OU Makes alot of money from Kashruth certificationFebruary 3, 2013 4:36 am at 4:36 am #926143
He happens to be right in many situations.
Firstly you didn’t address anything he said, you just knocked him. One doesn’t need to look at a 990 to know that the costs of a dinner are enormous.
There is actually one well known raffle that has spent millions of dollars in marketing, barely covering their costs with donations.
Secondly, did you ever ask a fundraiser what his percentage is?
Did you know that the fundraiser at your door takes 35%? Did you ask him what percentage his driver takes, which can be another 15-20 percent?February 3, 2013 4:54 am at 4:54 am #926144
They asked someone in our group who just said sure and they jumped in. It happened quite quickly and none of is were sober. We were regular teenage boys with booze in our system. I like to think that some of us in the group would have said no if asked but who knows. Most teens and even adults tend to let themselves down with their conduct when tipsy. Unless you are a seasoned drinker who can hold his alcohol and keep his wits you are no different and would.also make lapses in judgment. I’ve been by many a kiddush where an adult had one too many and we heard “things.”
But either way I think the main issue is boys shouldn’t be drinking because it leads to all kinds of behavior. The Limo is a side issue.February 3, 2013 7:14 am at 7:14 am #926145
But Make sure there is no Booze, If that means arranging it yourself and having the limo company keep the booze away
The RY arranged that there’s no booze in the limo (bar locked or emptied).
It would be tacky on any other day but Purim, when people expect “shtick”.February 3, 2013 7:18 am at 7:18 am #926146
Make sure you know with whom he’s going, and have a talk with him about being responsible with alcohol (which means nothing at night when there’s no mitzvah anyway and they’re out in the streets), and if he’s with other good kids, let him go.February 3, 2013 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #926147
If the Limo costs $500 and figure 3 hours, thats $1500, do they expect to cover the costs, And what if they do cover how much about the $1500 do they cover. Say they collect $2000, Is it worth $1500 in costs to raise $2000 (Net $500) , now if you say someone will donate the limo, it would be better to ask that person for a direct donation instead.
The reason you might want an event like a chinese auction that raises little profit is because it might get your organization out there to people who are not involved and that is worth somethingFebruary 3, 2013 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #926148
I did not address his comments because they were so far from anything resembling facts that there was no point. It would have meant rewriting his whole comment.
As a matter of point, I have a lot of experience with not for profits. I am commenting from my experience with not for profits.
As far as costs, zdog mentions 500 an hour. It’s an assumption that like so many of his, has no basis in reality and is easily ascertainable.
You will find that it not not so much more than the cost of renting a van with a driver from a reputable service. These drivers have experience driving much more rowdy groups. (Think proms). It is actually responsible to use such an experienced professional driver. The slight incremental cost is worthwhile for safety.
But it is irrelevant. Zdad is just looking for a reason to use when he does not give.February 3, 2013 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #926149
The costs, I believe, are much lower than your estimates.February 3, 2013 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #926150
nishtdayngesheft and DaasYochid. Even if zahavasdad’s estimates are off, there’s no denying that it’s more expensive than a van – and the difference in price (even if just by a little) can be money better spent on the actual tzedakah. I’m 100% with him on this one – I’d faster give to guys collecting without the limo.February 3, 2013 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #926151
My parents would not let me join any groups, however when I was older, they really had no way of holding me back.
Looking back, I clearly understand why they would not be thrilled with the idea of me going collecting with groups on Purim,
Basically its an unsupervised group of teenagers, drunk and hungry for fun.
Boys that never smoked had their first puff. Others were overly drunk.
Some boys were talking and acting very inappropriately.
I cannot understand how the yeshivos or organizations permit this, they have an obligation that their students (especially if they are collecting for the yeshiva) to have some sort of supervision.
For those that really care about your children, keep them at home, make it as exciting as you can.February 3, 2013 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #926152
sounds like prom behavior to me…February 3, 2013 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #926153
Your assertion was sufficiently dealt with above and I quote;
“These drivers have experience driving much more rowdy groups. (Think proms). It is actually responsible to use such an experienced professional driver. The slight incremental cost is worthwhile for safety.”
According to your logice they should go to a rent a wreck and get the cheapst shmattah car available. Who cares if the tires are bald and the breaks are soft. Turn signal are an unneccesary luxury and headlights, why those just waste gas.February 3, 2013 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #926154
Even if zahavasdad’s estimates are off, there’s no denying that it’s more expensive than a van –
I’m not affirming it or denying it, but if you want to complain you’d have to give solid figures.
Why do you downplay the safety issue?
I wouldn’t either downplay the fact that it’s more geshmak for the boys. This is not only about raising very necessary funds, it’s also about finding healthy activities for young teenagers who need a kosher outlet. Would you prefer they smoke and drink? Or are you so idealistic to think that 15-17 year old boys should have a sefer open 24/7 and don’t need some fun?February 3, 2013 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #926155
A simple google search shows that the rate for a 8 passanger stretch limo is $92 while a 9 passenger van is $84.
SO ZDAD was off by a factor of more than 500%. Par for the course.
And I would think that the $8 an hour for safety (A little more if you add in the tip) is probably worth it.February 3, 2013 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #926156
Actually I did a google search for a Limo myself in Brooklyn and I got $600 for 3 hours + tip for a 7-10 passenger vehicle. (the $500 was quoted by someone else here)
So for $690 , if every person gives $5 (most probably give less) it would take 138 people to give just to break even,
$92 an hour sounds too cheap for a streech limo in BrooklynFebruary 3, 2013 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #926157
The price was, as I said, $92 per hour in NYC. Plus a tip, still not so much.
Anyway, $5 is that what you figure? I see that your 500% error rate remain consistent.
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