Studies on vaccines you might have missed.👨‍🔬💉🚫

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  • #1669305

    2scents
    Participant

    Dooms,

    I would appreciate it if you would stand for honesty truth, you are cherry picking bits of data that work for your position, but that is not honest. You are obviously guilty of confirmation bias.

    This is from the actual study.

    “According to Yokohama statistics, MMR vaccination
    rates declined from 69.8% in the 1988 birth cohort,
    to 42.9%, 33.6%, 24.0%, and a mere 1.8% in birth
    cohorts 1989 to 1992”

    The above is prior, which means before, the triple jab has been introduced.

    if the MMR would be linked to ASD, there should have been a reduction in ASD occurring in these cohorts. Yet there is a consistent increase in ASD, while at the same time the MMR vaccines were sharply reduced, from 64% to zero.
    Hey, if it went down, why is ASD increasing, even before it had been replaced with the triple jab?

    In fact, since you are ok with cherry picking why don’t you look at 1992, it had a higher rate of ASD than the previous year, and it had a lower rate of MMR vaccines (with no triple jabs).

    of course you would not state that, because you have confirmation bias, you only present data that supports your already established position, that is dishonest.

    The study does a wonderful job of dismissing the notion that there is a link between MMR and autism.

    The increases in ASD are in line of the global increase, and despite ceasing the MMR vaccine there was no change to ASD occurrences.

    #1669308

    truthishidden
    Participant

    2scents: I feel bad that I cause you hardship
    Actually, not at all, anyone can easily read through your misinterpreting data, that’s why I don’t bother to dispute it.

    #1669310

    2scents
    Participant

    “in the Body of the Study (that few people read) it states that MMR was replaced with 3 Shots – but
    in the paragraph called “results” that fact was NOT mentioned – which is Most Important!!!”

    Astonishing to think that something that was published for all to see, yet your claim is that no one realized this.

    This study was presented to study if there is a change to ASD when MMR is withdrawn, the triple jab, which Wakefield (who is the father to the MMR/autism conspiracy claim and currently one of the anti-vaccine movements leaders) made the claim that the triple jab is the safe alternative to the MMR vaccine, was all part of the study.

    There is no fraud when accounting and detailing that at one point (1993) was the triple jab introduced, in fact the focus of the study was not to compare zero vaccination to the MMR, this just so happened to be that from 88′-92′ there was a sharp decline of the MMR vaccine with no replacement, so this would be able to satisfy people like yourself who made the unsubstantiated claim that even the triple jab is a cause to autism.

    However, you would have to do better than this to claim that there is fraud.

    #1669312

    2scents
    Participant

    Dooms,

    “We don’t have a DOWN SYNDROME Epidemic – the Rate of all KNOWN Genetic Retardation
    has remained the same! Because Autism is not Primarily Genetic but caused by something in
    the ENVIRONMENT.”

    a. arguments and questions are not conclusions.

    b. The argument you present, actually affirms what the data shows, that if the DSM IV criteria would be applied in the 1990’s the rate would be similar than it is today with just some increase as is expected. Otherwise, there would be no explanation to this genetic disorder.

    There is no denying that:

    a. DSM III had a significantly reserved criteria for ASD.
    b. The stats of the 1990s were all based on the Criteria of the DSM III Criteria for ASD.
    c. Aside from the many other criteria that were added, age is a huge factor, the DSM had an age restriction of needing to be diagnosed prior to 30 months.
    Since the majority of children with ASD are diagnosed after 30 months, they were not included in the DSM III, so the increase is not an increase in prevalence, it is an increase in diagnosis.

    I do not expect you to agree to any of this.

    #1669314

    2scents
    Participant

    Dooms:

    “dditionally, the study had a CHART. In the Chart it shows that AFTER MMR was introduced in
    1989 – Autism SPIKED in 1990!
    When people stopped using MMR in 1991-1992: – the Autism Rate DROPPED.
    When people started doing 3 Vaccines in 1993 – Autism Rate SPIKED – AGAIN!
    The CHART – which is in the study – clearly shows that Vaccines cause Autism.
    Yet the authors – who get $$$ from Vaccine Industry – wrote the OPPOSITE!”

    Actually what you wrote is inaccurate.

    Rates increased as the MMR has decreased, even after 1993 when there was an increase, even some of the future cohorts (post-1993) had decreases in ASD rates, this clearly demonstrates that:

    a. Withholding MMR vaccines has no effect on autism.
    b. You are dishonest and cherry-pick only the data that supports your position.

    #1669315

    2scents
    Participant

    “But AUTISM – which is NOT proven to be Genetic, there is NO BLOOD TEST – DID Go up!”

    That is your own position, yet the studies clearly demonstrate that siblings and twins are more likely to have autism regardless of their vaccination status, this has been posted here including on this very same page.

    When you just state something and use CAPS it does not become a fact.

    #1669317

    doomsday
    Participant

    EYMom, I NEVER attack a study based on the Source – that CDC sponsored the study.
    I always get reviews from PhD Scientists who point out the FRAUD in the CDC studies.
    But I don’t name the Scientists who pointed out the Fraud, because all the Pro-Vaxxers on this thread
    start attacking the “anti-vaxxer” scientists, instead of looking at the FACTS.
    I had this happen several times, so I no longer name the Source but just quote the FACTS.

    #1669318

    anon
    Participant

    shimon112
    10 wrote:
    “…it’s unethical to deny any child a vaccine because they are so critical. They have saved millions of lives. They are the single-most important innovation of modern medicine.”

    The single most important innovation of modern medicine and that has saved the most lives and extended life expectancy is sanitation and clean water! Not vaccines.

    #1669319

    2scents
    Participant

    “I answered this but I’ll say it again: Autism is BOTH Genetic and Environmental – just like SMOKING.”

    Your response is not sufficient, the percentage of sibling probability of being diagnosed with autism to extremely high to dismiss this as a genetic factor.

    Including the study of many identical twins, which have an extremely high probability that if one has autism the twin will also have.

    This shows that these children were born with autism.

    Yet I do appreciate your efforts of trying to entertain us with these explanations, they just dont hold water.

    #1669321

    doomsday
    Participant

    ProVaxxers are you going to admit the study “No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study” is FRAUDULENT?

    1. Study Proclaims that after MMR was withdrawn, Autism went UP. But HIDES THE FACT that MMR
    was replaced with THREE other vaccines – and that’s why Autism went up.

    2. The CHART shown in the study clearly shows that when MMR was Introduced – Autism DOUBLED.
    When MMR vaccination Rates dropped – Autism Rates Dropped!
    When MMR was replaced with THREE other Vaccines – Autism Rates DOUBLED again!
    The chart is evidence that Vaccines cause Autism – but the Authors (who take $$$ from Vaccine Industry) proclaim the OPPOSITE of what the DATA actually shows!

    ProVaxxers, are you going to admit the “No effect of MMR withdrawal…”study is FRAUDLENT?

    #1669323

    2scents
    Participant

    Truth

    “Dr. William Thomspson from the CDC: I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics.

    How can they be trusted?
    They only lie 95% of the time?!”

    Interesting how you just bring this up as if this is something new, this has been brought up many times in this discussion, while you use this to paint the CDC in a negative light, this actually proves the level of integrity that goes on in the CDC.

    Dr Thomson (who is a vaccine supporter) was part of the team that conducted a study, they noted that there the subgroup of African American children with autism were vaccinated on time vs other children.

    The reason they decided to omit this from the study was that they realized that this was due to the special ed programs that these children went to had a requirement that the children be fully vaccinated, therefore unlike other children this subgroup had all of their vaccines on time.

    Dr Thompson did not disagree with the reasoning behind this, he even included these facts as part of his presentation (which he released and is available to the public).

    His colleagues believed that people will misinterpret the data to show that vaccines cause autism. However, Dr Thompson believed that since this is part of the study nothing should be withheld, he released the emails he had with his colleagues that clearly show that this was what was going on.

    After all these pages of posts that clearly show how dishonest the radical anti vaxx and anti medicine people are, twisting studies and chery picking stuff, I find it surprising that the level of integrity that is expected of the CDC is something that you use against trusting the CDC.

    Another point, there were no lies, only an omission of what the team believed was statistically insignificant.

    #1669324

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Cents: “yet this study is focused on cohorts of 1988 and on, which means that they followed cohorts that received no MMR shots as well as no triple jab shots. ”

    The study chart shows that when MMR vaccination dropped and BEFORE Triple Jab was introduced –
    the Autism Rate dropped sharply. Which is evidence that Vaccines cause autism.

    #1669325

    2scents
    Participant

    Truth:

    “Why? Bec. the CDC puts them on quack watch lists, so that makes them more credible?”

    Let go of your imagination for a moment, there is no CDC quack list, rather these people have alternative agendas, as has been discussed here.

    Most of these people were considered quacks way before they entered the vaccine discussion.

    In fact, for years Wakfeild was considered as a legitimate authority and his study was taken seriously until it was uncovered that he falsified data and had an agenda.

    #1669327

    Health
    Participant

    doomsday -“If anyone is make TRILLIONS off this SCAM – its the Pharmaceutical Industry.
    And they don’t care how many Millions of Children they Injure – as long as they get their $$$$$$$$$$$”

    It’s not a scam, no matter what you say.
    There’s such a thing as Rx. companies. They reasearch diseases & then they produce vaccines and/or meds to combat them.
    It cost them billions of dollars – and then they want to make a profit, like all companies.

    Eastern Medicine has been around for thousands of years, but it mostly doesn’t work!
    The Alternative medicine guys want you to believe in them, but in the beginning of the last century, humans didn’t live too long.
    Along came modern medicine that prolongs human life.
    Now we have people like you, that harp on every little glitch.
    Why do you do it – if it’s Not for Money?!?

    #1669328

    2scents
    Participant

    Taken directly from the study:

    No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence
    of autism: a total population study

    “The key findings are that the seven-year cumulative incidence of ASD rose progressively from 47.6
    per 10,000 for children born in 1988 to 117.2 for
    those born in 1996, that this rise continued in cohorts of children born after MMR was withdrawn,
    and that no decline in ASD incidence occurred in
    the five-year period from 1988 to 1992 during which MMR vaccine usage fell from 69.8% to zero
    population coverage. If the vaccine had been
    responsible for a rise in the incidence of ASD, there
    ought to have been a fall in incidence following
    withdrawal of the MMR vaccine, but this did not
    occur. Necessarily, that finding runs counter to
    expectations deriving from the causal hypothesis.
    The continuing rise in the incidence of ASD after
    withdrawal of the MMR vaccine seems to be incompatible with the causal hypothesis.”

    “We found no
    change in the incidence of ASD with regression between the periods before and after withdrawal of
    MMR”

    Truth, Who is ‘fardreing a kup’?

    #1669332

    2scents
    Participant

    “EY, I don’t give sources because Pro-Vaxxers attack the Source instead of the FACTS.”

    Actually, this is how it works, if you present a statement that is not a fact if the ‘source’ is from a blog or a website, that still does not make it a fact.

    So yes, you will be attacked for using what you consider ‘facts’ in a discussion that has a different definition of what is considered a ‘fact’.

    lastly, writing something over and over multiple times and using CAPS still does meet the definition of fact.

    #1669333

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents, I read the article Three Reasons Not to Believe in an Autism Epidemic
    Here is a quote from the article:
    “However, no sound scientific evidence indicates that the increasing number of diagnosed cases of autism arises from anything other than purposely broadened diagnostic criteria, coupled with deliberately greater public awareness and intentionally improved case finding.”

    Again, per the CDC, in 1970 autism was 1:10,000. At that time, autism was described as NON-VERBAL Autism. Today Autism rate is 1:50 of which ONE THIRD ARE NON-VERBAL AUTISM = 1:150.

    And nobody will miss diagnosing a kid who is NON-VERBAL.
    And public is definitely aware if a kid is NON-VERBAL.

    2Cents, I have refuted the nonsense in the Autism Epidemic Denial.
    So do you admit that Autism Epidemic IS REAL from 1:10,000 to 1:150?

    #1669363

    2scents
    Participant

    “The study chart shows that when MMR vaccination dropped and BEFORE Triple Jab was introduced –
    the Autism Rate dropped sharply. Which is evidence that Vaccines cause autism.”

    Really?

    post the numbers, post the drop and how it stays the same or continues to drop before it increases, then post how it only increases without any further drops..

    This is your claim, so show it.

    #1669362

    2scents
    Participant

    Truth:

    “Life expectancy is currently on the decline…”

    You would probably be interested in what the Kaiser Family Foundation has studied.

    US life expectancy
    1980: 73.7
    2016: 78.6

    In fact, most of the top ten causes of death are either steady or declining, the main increase is in unintentional deaths which usually are drug overdoses which have increased significantly.

    #1669372

    2scents
    Participant

    “The single most important innovation of modern medicine and that has saved the most lives and extended life expectancy is sanitation and clean water! Not vaccines.”

    I did realize that the water has been cleaner the past 20 years, each year. becoming cleaner than the previous year, as this is the only modernization of medicine. Per your claim. This would nicely explain how each year life expectancy has increased consistently.

    Disease prevention and disease management have made light years of advancements unless you are able to explain how deaths from heart disease and other disease have declined over the years If you know where one can purchase water that increases life expectancy, let us all know.

    #1669369

    2scents
    Participant

    “2Cents, I have refuted the nonsense in the Autism Epidemic Denial.
    So do you admit that Autism Epidemic IS REAL from 1:10,000 to 1:150?”

    nope.

    You still need to prove that:

    a. the 30% is the same.
    b. that the age diagnosis plays no role in diagnosing ASD. (including nonverbal).
    c. that other mental disorders with language deficits were not affected by the DSM change.

    Otherwise, your explanation and question can easily be satisfied.

    I find it weird that when it comes to SIDS you yell fraud (in CAPS) only because there have been changes in classifying these infant deaths, despite having the data available and you can see a sharp total decrease not only in SIDS but also in all preventable deaths, Even when you use the current SIDS criteria you still have a very significant decrease, yet only because there was a change, that is sufficient for you to dismiss the claim that there is a decrease.

    Why when there have been such radical changes to what is ASD, starting from age to just combining so many disorders which existed prior to the DSM IV yet were not considered autism, you just keep on using the latest DSM criteria to show that there has been an increase in prevalence, when it is likely that it is just an increase in diagnosis.

    But then again, I accused you of confirmation bias, you conveniently only use parts of the data that supports your position.

    If this is your position, fine. But you do not have a right to make your biased claims public and risk public health.

    #1669375

    2scents
    Participant

    Truth:

    “Actually, not at all, anyone can easily read through your misinterpreting data, that’s why I don’t bother to dispute it.”

    or, you simply are not able to dispute it, only because this is the data, not a misinterpretation.

    In fact, I do little interpretation, I mainly quoted it, but you have a problem with the data, as it supports vaccinations which for some reason does not sit with you.

    No need to jab me with insults when you can simply state that you are willing to hold on to your preconceived beliefs.

    #1669378

    truthishidden
    Participant

    “Life expectancy at birth in the United States fell again in 2017 for the third year running, the longest sustained decline since 1915-18”
    “A continued increase in deaths by overdose in 2017 was the biggest factor driving rates upward, but SEVEN of the top 10 causes of mortality saw a statistically significant increase while only one, cancer, saw a significant decrease.”
    (BMJ website)

    #1669386

    doomsday
    Participant

    I have debunked the Fraudulent MMR-Autism-Sibling Study before but I will do it AGAIN.

    1. This was NOT a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study – the CDC/Vaccine Industry is TERRIFIED to do a
    Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study! But FAKE News Media and FAKE DOCTORS LIE and call this and other
    studies Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed when they are NOT. They are all Vaxxed vs Vaxxed and UNVALID!

    Here are samples of LYING Headline by Fake News (70% of advertising from Pharmaceutical Co):
    No MMR-Autism Link in Large Study of Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated Kids

    Here is a quote (LIE) from Dr. Brian King regarding the Fake Study:
    “Taken together, some dozen studies have now shown that the age of onset of ASD does not differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated children, the severity or course of ASD does not differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated children, and now the risk of ASD recurrence in families does not differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated children.”

    LIES! These are NOT Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Studies!

    2. The study was called a 95,000 kid study but they only focused on 23 Children who
    1. Had an older sibling with Autism
    2. Did not get MMR (but DID get OTHER Vaccines)
    3. Had Autism

    23 Children is NOT 95,000 Children – so calling this a 95,000 child study is a LIE!

    3. The study was NOT RANDOMIZED and due to Healthy User Bias children who were showing
    SIGNS OF AUTISM were more likely NOT to get the MMR (but they DID get OTHER Vaccines) which
    HIDES the MMR-AUTISM Connection!
    The AUTHORS of the study ADMIT Healthy User Bias – but then ignore it in the Fake “conclusion”

    study quote: “this pattern is driven by selective parental decision making around MMR immunization, i.e., parents who notice social or communication delays in their children decide to forestall immunization. Because, as a group, children with recognized delays are likely to be at higher risk of ASD, such selectivity could result in a tendency for some higher-risk children to be “unexposed” (to the MMR). “ Gee, Do you think?!?!

    4. 4-14% of the No MMR Group – MAY HAVE GOTTEN MMR!!! Study only looked at Insurance Records but kids could have been vaccinated at Health Clinic or School with No Insurance Record of MMR.
    This makes the whole study INVALID!

    quote study: : the MMR immunization rates in our study were 4% to 14% lower than rates reported in the National Immunization Survey. Thus, children in our study who are considered unvaccinated may have received vaccines in settings such as schools or public health clinics in which claims were not submitted.

    5. This was NOT a study of Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed but a study of kids who got 24 vaccines vs kids who got 23 vaccines. It’s like comparing smokers who smoked 24 packs of cigarettes vs smokers who smoked 23 packs of cigarettes.

    All this study proves is that MMR is NOT the ONLY Vaccine that causes Autism. Other vaccines which contain ALUMINUM and other neurotoxins can ALSO cause Autism!

    ProVaxxers are you going to admit that this is ANOTHER FRAUDULENT Study???

    #1669389

    2scents
    Participant

    From the CDC:

    “Health, United States, 2017 ”

    Life expectancy, in years
    At birth:
    76.8 (2000)
    78.7 (2015)
    78.6 (2016)

    Infant deaths per 1,000 live births:
    6.91 (2000)
    5.9 (2015)
    5.87 (2016)

    Deaths per 100,000 population:
    All causes:
    869.0 (2000)
    733.1 (2015)
    728.8 (2016)

    Heart disease:
    257.6 (2000)
    168.5 (2015)
    165.5 (2016)

    Cancer:
    199.6 (2000)
    158.5 (2015)
    155.8 (2016)

    Chronic lower respiratory diseases:
    44.2 (2000)
    41.6 (2015)
    40.6 (2016)

    Unintentional injuries:
    34.9 (2000)
    43.2 (2015)
    47.4 (2016)

    Stroke:
    60.9 (2000)
    37.6 (2015)
    37.3 (2016)

    Alzheimer’s disease:
    18.1 (2000)
    29.4 (2015)
    30.3 (2016)

    Diabetes:
    25.0 (2000)
    21.3 (2015)
    21.0 (2016)

    Influenza and pneumonia:
    23.7 (2000)
    15.2 (2015)
    13.5 (2016)

    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis:
    13.5 (2000)
    13.4 (2015)
    13.1 (2016)

    Suicide:
    10.4 (2000)
    13.3 (2015)
    13.5 (2016)

    #1669390

    2scents
    Participant

    DOOMS,

    You are not doing anyone a favor by just recycling your old posts, you have simply distorted and posted incorrect data, that is dishonest.

    You cannot cover that up by posting a lengthy post with arguments against the study. If you simply cannot directly back up your claims, what is the point of engaging with you in an honest discussion?

    #1669403

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: Here is the FRAUD in your study, on “MMR Withdrawal”

    “The key findings are that the seven-year cumulative incidence of ASD rose progressively from 47.6 per 10,000 for children born in 1988 to 117.2 for those born in 1996,”

    The CHART shown in the study shows Autism DOUBLED in 1990 – a year AFTER MMR was introduced, then Autism Rate FELL when MMR Vaccination Rate Fell. Then Autism Rate DOUBLED again after
    MMR was replaced with 3 SEPARATE Vaccines.

    that this rise continued in cohorts of children born after MMR was withdrawn, and that no decline in ASD incidence occurred in the five-year period from 1988 to 1992 during which MMR vaccine usage fell from 69.8% to zero”

    The Rise Continued in children born after MMR was Withdrawn – AND 3 SEPARATE VACCINES were ADDED! The Study OMITS that MMR was REPLACED with 3 OTHER Vaccines!
    It is FRAUDULENT to write that MMR Vax Rate DECLINED starting 1988 when MMR was not introduced until 1989!!!

    #1669406

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: “According to Yokohama statistics, MMR vaccination
    rates declined from 69.8% in the 1988 birth cohort,
    to 42.9%, 33.6%, 24.0%, and a mere 1.8% in birth
    cohorts 1989 to 1992”

    The above is prior, which means before, the triple jab has been introduced.

    69.8% of children born in 1988 got MMR in 1989 (age 1 Year) and AUTISM RATE DOUBLED a year later in 1990 – as is shown in the CHART in the Study.

    Then the MMR Vaccine Rate went sharply down – and the Autism Rate ALSO went sharply down – as is shown in the CHART in the Study. So BEFORE “triple jab” was introduced – Autism Rate DECLINED!

    Then when 3 Separate Vaccines were introduced in 1993 – Autism Rate DOUBLED AGAIN!!!

    2Cents, So do you admit that this is evidence that MMR or 3 Separate Vaccines cause Autism Rate to DOUBLE??

    #1669425

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: There is no denying that:

    a. DSM III had a significantly reserved criteria for ASD.
    b. The stats of the 1990s were all based on the Criteria of the DSM III Criteria for ASD.
    c. Aside from the many other criteria that were added, age is a huge factor, the DSM had an age restriction of needing to be diagnosed prior to 30 months.
    Since the majority of children with ASD are diagnosed after 30 months, they were not included in the DSM III, so the increase is not an increase in prevalence, it is an increase in diagnosis.

    I do not expect you to agree to any of this.
    ***************************************************************************************
    Because you ignore the point that 1/3 of Autistic children are NON-VERBAL!
    so if 1:50 kids are autistic, 1:150 kids are NON-VERBAL Autistic.

    in 1970 PER THE CDC, the rate for NON-VERBAL Autism was 1:10,000
    Today it is 1:150

    So how can you DENY that the rate of NON-VERBAL AUTISM has Skyrocketed???

    Your “drey kup” arguments to work on large segments of the population – but not to those
    of us who are aware of that Autism Definition was Expanded IN ORDER TO DENY THAT AUTISM
    HAS INCREASED!

    But the “expanded” definition of Autism does not explain how NON VERBAL AUTISM went
    from 1:10,000 to 1:150!!!

    #1669433

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: You are not doing anyone a favor by just recycling your old posts, you have simply distorted and posted incorrect data, that is dishonest.

    YOU are the one just recycling old posts.
    And you have not refuted ONE EVIDENCE OF FRAUD that I have posted!
    And neither have any other Pro-Vaxxers on this thread.
    The FRAUD is IRREFUTABLE.

    #1669442

    doomsday
    Participant

    Health: Along came modern medicine that prolongs human life.

    Along also came FLUSH TOILETS, Running CLEAN Water, MORE FOOD and LESS OVERCROWDING.
    And this also had a dramatic effect on the reduction of disease and lower mortality for sick people.
    In the THIRD WORLD, malnourished children die from Measles. But virtually ZERO children die from
    Measles in USA.
    So PROSPERITY = better nutrition has a lot to do with people recovering from illness and therefore
    people live longer.

    #1669437

    2scents
    Participant

    “RATE DOUBLED a year later in 1990”

    Dooms,

    They were following the cohorts, the numbers are for cohorts born in those years. You obviously have not read the entire study. The same cohorts that had a decline in the MMR had an increase in ASD.

    #1669438

    doomsday
    Participant

    Doomsday: “EY, I don’t give sources because Pro-Vaxxers attack the Source instead of the FACTS.”

    2Cents: Actually, this is how it works, if you present a statement that is not a fact if the ‘source’ is from a blog or a website, that still does not make it a fact.

    The FACTS I am making is proving that the CDC Studies are FRAUDULENT.
    I got these Facts from PhD Scientists – but you don’t have to know who they are in order to
    comment of the EVIDENCE of FRAUD I presented.
    All you have to do is refute the FRAUD – which None of you Provaxxers can do!

    #1669447

    2scents
    Participant

    Dooms,

    I will respond to a few of your recent posts.

    a. unlike you, I have not just posted posts that were previously posted.
    b. the evidence you present, are statements that you or someone else has made, not necessarily ‘evidence’.

    c. I have not ignored nonverbal autism and nonverbal mental disorders, I have made reference to those and addressed them.

    d. The birth cohorts with declining MMR vaccines (without the triple jab) have had increases to ASD, this proves that the claim that MMR is linked to ASD is nonexistent.

    e. there was an increase in 1993, as there have been yearly increases before and after, what has caused these increases was not the focus of the study, yet it clearly has nothing to do with the MMR vaccines.

    f. You conveniently fail to provide the yearly numbers, as there have been a number of decreases and increases which cannot be explained if linked to the MMR vaccine.

    g. You state that ASD decreased prior to 1990, please provide all the years that had a decrease and show correlation to the MMR vaccine or for when it was withheld.

    h. You state that the chart shows an increase to ASD in 1990, you incorrectly associate it with the MMR vaccine, however the chart is for cohorts of 1990, they had a significant increase in ASD when compared to earlier cohorts, yet as you correctly pointed out, that despite the decrease to the MMR vaccine (with no replacement vaccine to the MMR) there has been a steady increase to ASD. This clearly demonstrates that withholding MMR vaccine, as this cohort had a significantly lower rate of MMR vaccinations compared to the earlier cohorts, will have no effect on ASD.

    i. The study does not omit that the MMR vaccine was replaced in 1993 with the triple jab, as you yourself have posted earlier it clearly details it and is actually part of the study to prove that either withholding MMR or replacing it with the triple jab has no effect on ASD rates.

    #1669448

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cent: Including the study of many identical twins, which have an extremely high probability that if one has autism the twin will also have.

    This shows that these children were born with autism.

    NO! It shows that identical twins both have a Genetic Weakness which makes them
    MORE VULNERABLE to getting Autism FROM VACCINES!

    If one Twin was Vaccinated and the other Twin was NOT Vaccinated –
    then you would see that only the Vaccinated Twin gets Autism.
    Which is why CDC refuses to do a VAXXED VS UNVAXXED STUDY!

    Just like a Smoker is more likely to get LUNG CANCER if his/her Twin got Lung Cancer.
    But only if both twins SMOKED.
    If one twin smoked and the other twin DIDN’T SMOKE – only the Smoking Twin gets Lung Cancer.

    #1669449

    2scents
    Participant

    Dooms,

    “Along also came FLUSH TOILETS, Running CLEAN Water, MORE FOOD and LESS OVERCROWDING.”

    All of these existed for many years, yet there was a drastic increase in human life expectancy even after these have been common.

    #1669460

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: That is your own position, yet the studies clearly demonstrate that siblings and twins are more likely to have autism regardless of their vaccination status,

    LIE!
    2Cents – show me ONE Study that showed 100% UNVACCINATED Twins or Siblings got Autism.

    #1669480

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Cents: Look at the CHART in the Study.

    1. Did Autism DOUBLE in 1990?
    YES! That is ONE year after MMR was introduced in 1989.

    2. Did Autism DECLINE in 1991-1992?
    YES! Which reflects the Sharp Decline in MMR Vaccination.

    3. Did Autism DOUBLE again in 1994?
    YES! Which is ONE Year AFTER the “triple jab” was introduced.

    How can you deny that the CHART from the Study shows that Autism Rate rises and falls
    in direct correlation to the Rise and Falls of Vaccines (whether MMR or Triple Jab)???

    #1669491

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: c. Aside from the many other criteria that were added, age is a huge factor, the DSM had an age restriction of needing to be diagnosed prior to 30 months.
    Since the majority of children with ASD are diagnosed after 30 months, they were not included in the DSM III, so the increase is not an increase in prevalence, it is an increase in diagnosis.

    Since children begin talking between 12-18 months, the NON-VERBAL Autistic children were diagnosed BEFORE 30 Months – even today!

    So the Expanded definition of Autism to after 30 months DOES NOT explain how
    Non-Verbal Autism went from 1:10,000 to 1:150!!!

    But I don’t expect 2Cents to ever admit he/she is WRONG and is spreading DISINFORMATION
    to cover up that Vaccines cause Autism!

    #1669506

    doomsday
    Participant

    Doomsday: RATE DOUBLED a year later in 1990”

    2cents: They were following the cohorts, the numbers are for cohorts born in those years. You obviously have not read the entire study. The same cohorts that had a decline in the MMR had an increase in ASD.

    You are trying to OBFUSCATE by talking about “cohorts”.

    FACT: MMR and Triple Jab are given around ONE YEAR OF AGE

    FACT: ONE YEAR AFTER MMR is introduced – Autism Rate DOUBLES

    FACT: ONE YEAR After Triple Jab is introduced – Autism Rate DOUBLES

    #1669505

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: i. The study does not omit that the MMR vaccine was replaced in 1993 with the triple jab, as you yourself have posted earlier it clearly details it

    The Study DID Omit from the “Results” (which is all most people read) that MMR was replaced with
    3 Separate Vaccines. See Below:
    Results: The MMR vaccination rate in the city of Yokohama declined significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1992, and not a single vaccination was administered in 1993 or thereafter. In contrast, cumulative incidence of ASD up to age seven increased significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1996 and most notably rose dramatically beginning with the birth cohort of 1993.

    2cents, where does it say in RESULTS that MMR was replaced with triple jab? NOWHERE!!!

    2cents: and is actually part of the study to prove that either withholding MMR or replacing it with the triple jab has no effect on ASD rates.

    The CHART in the study shows the OPPOSITE – when MMR is Introduced – Autism DOUBLED.
    When MMR Vaccination Declined – Autism Rate also Declined.
    When Triple Jab is Introduced – Autism DOUBLES – AGAIN!

    #1669534

    Health
    Participant

    doomsday -“Along also came FLUSH TOILETS, Running CLEAN Water, MORE FOOD and LESS OVERCROWDING. Etc.”

    Do you work for Age of Autism, or another Anti-vaxx site?
    If not, why do you keep posting the theories from those Anti-vaxx sites?

    From Vaxopedia:
    “Did Better Hygiene and Sanitation Get Rid of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases?
    Anti-vaccine folks, in addition to trying to argue that vaccines are full of poison, typically try to make a case that vaccines aren’t even necessary.
    Why not?
    They had good hygiene and sanitation in Brooklyn when my uncle got polio in 1950. What they didn’t yet have was a polio vaccine.
    They had good hygiene and sanitation in Brooklyn when my uncle got polio in 1950. What they didn’t yet have was a polio vaccine. If the wide use of indoor plumbing got rid of the plague in the early 1900s, why didn’t it get rid of all other infectious diseases at the same time?
    Because, they claim, vaccines don’t even work. They claim that it was better hygiene and sanitation, not vaccines that helped get rid of smallpox, polio, and measles.
    Did Better Hygiene and Sanitation Get Rid of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases?
    On the surface, the idea that better hygiene and sanitation helped get rid disease makes a lot of sense.
    “The 19th century shift in population from country to city that accompanied industrialization and immigration led to overcrowding in poor housing served by inadequate or nonexistent public water supplies and waste-disposal systems. These conditions resulted in repeated outbreaks of cholera, dysentery, TB, typhoid fever, influenza, yellow fever, and malaria.
    By 1900, however, the incidence of many of these diseases had begun to decline because of public health improvements, implementation of which continued into the 20th century. Local, state, and federal efforts to improve sanitation and hygiene reinforced the concept of collective “public health” action (e.g., to prevent infection by providing clean drinking water).”
    Achievements in Public Health, 1900-1999: Control of Infectious Diseases
    It makes a lot of sense because better hygiene and sanitation did actually help control and eliminate many infectious diseases, including cholera, dysentery, and typhoid fever.
    Others, like yellow fever and malaria, decreased because the mosquitoes that spread them were brought under control.
    “Strategic vaccination campaigns have virtually eliminated diseases that previously were common in the United States, including diphtheria, tetanus, poliomyelitis, smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, and Haemophilus influenzae type b meningitis.”
    Achievements in Public Health, 1900-1999: Control of Infectious Diseases
    That still left a lot of work for vaccines.
    After all, we had good hygiene and sanitation in the United States when kids were routinely dying of polio, measles, Hib meningitis, pneumococcal meningitis, and rotavirus, etc.
    Any way, if better hygiene and sanitation can get rid of so many diseases, why has each vaccine-preventable disease been controlled at a different time – yellow fever (1905), polio (1979), smallpox (1980), measles (2000), neonatal tetanus (2000), congenital rubella syndrome (2004), respiratory diphtheria (2009)?
    What about the infectious diseases which don’t have vaccines? Why hasn’t better hygiene and sanitation helped control those diseases yet, like RSV, norovirus, Ebola, and Zika, etc.?
    “Perhaps the best evidence that vaccines, and not hygiene and nutrition, are responsible for the sharp drop in disease and death rates is chickenpox. If hygiene and nutrition alone were enough to prevent infectious diseases, chickenpox rates would have dropped long before the introduction of the varicella vaccine, which was not available until the mid-1990s. Instead, the number of chickenpox cases in the United States in the early 1990s, before the vaccine was introduced in 1995, was about four million a year. By 2004, the disease incidence had dropped by about 85%.”
    Misconceptions about Vaccines
    And why does better hygiene and sanitation only work for chicken pox in countries that routinely use the chicken pox vaccine?
    Do you want to believe that vaccines don’t work to justify skipping or delaying your child’s vaccines and leaving them unvaccinated and unprotected?
    Be more skeptical, learn more about vaccines, and make the right choice to get your kids vaccinated.”

    #1669562

    doomsday
    Participant

    Health, Do you work for VAXOPEDIA?
    If not, why do you keep posting quotes from VAXOPEDIA or other Pro-Vax Websites?
    Or maybe you work for Pharmaceutical Company?
    Pharmaceutical is a TRILLION Dollar Industry – Biggest, Most Powerful Industry IN THE WORLD!

    #1669581

    doomsday
    Participant

    Health, Vaxopedia is caught in a LIE once again!
    Anti-Vaxxers don’t claim that better hygiene and better nutrition ELIMINATED DISEASE.
    The claim is that the DEATH RATE from the disease declined 90% BEFORE Vaccines.

    It is extremely rare for a child in USA or other first world country to die from
    Measles, Chicken Pox, Roto Virus, Rubella or Whooping Cough.
    These diseases used to be listed in Medical Textbooks as BENIGN Childhood Diseases.

    Measles, Chicken Pox, Roto Virus, Rubella and Whooping Cough ONLY became “DEADLY”
    when the Pharmaceutical Company developed Vaccines for then.
    Then the FAKE MEDIA which gets 70% of its Advertising $$$ from Pharmaceutical Industry –
    begins to whip up MASS HYSTERIA over childhood diseases that were always considered BENIGN!

    #1669583

    2scents
    Participant

    Dooms,

    You are either have an intellectual deficit or intentionally playing dumb.

    a. You keep on repeating that in 1990 there was an increase in ASD cases, you do realize that the 1990 group had a lower vaccination rate than the 1989 and 1988 group?

    b. you claim that I lied because I stated that there are studies that show that autism is genetic, whoever said that the studies compared 100% unvaxxed to vaxxed? that is your own personal requirement, that does not necessarily mean that someone that does present the very exact study is a liar.

    Once again from the study:

    “According to Yokohama statistics, MMR vaccination
    rates declined from 69.8% in the 1988 birth cohort,
    to 42.9%, 33.6%, 24.0%, and a mere 1.8% in birth
    cohorts 1989 to 1992”

    yet these very same cohorts (groups of people), have had increases in ASD, which clearly demonstrates that despite the significant decrease in the MMR vaccines, there has been an increase in ASD.

    Unless you address this very specific conclusion your lengthy questioning and reasoning is just a bunch of gibberish.

    #1669620

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Autism Speaks claims there is no link, and they are one of the most anti-autism organizations in the world.

    #1669613

    doomsday
    Participant

    2centsb. you claim that I lied because I stated that there are studies that show that autism is genetic, whoever said that the studies compared 100% unvaxxed to vaxxed? that is your own personal requirement, that does not necessarily mean that someone that does present the very exact study is a liar.

    Unless your study found a blood test to DIAGNOSE Autism, your studies have no proof.
    The sibling/twin studies prove there is a Genetic Component.
    But the studies do not prove that if the children with a Genetic Weakness are NOT VACCINATED
    they will still develop Autism.

    So you have no PROOF that Autism is Primarily Genetic and you are born with it like Down Syndrome.
    You have no PROOF that if siblings or twin of an autistic child is 100% Unvaccinated they
    would still get Autism.
    All you have proof is that there ARE children who are more susceptible to Autism then Others.
    DUH! Everyone Knows that!
    But ZERO Proof that Vaccines are NOT the cause of Autism!

    But there IS a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed study that shows that Vaccinated Kids have a much higher
    rate of Autism (and other disesases). THAT IS Evidence that Vaccines Cause Autism.

    The Autism Rate from 1:10,000 (NON VERBAL) to 1:;150 (NON VERBAL) after the CDC
    QUADRUPLED the Vaccine Schedule.
    That is also EVIDENCE that vaccines cause Autism (and other diseases).

    That MMR withdrawal Study had a Chart that showed that when MMR was introduced – a year
    later AUTISM DOUBLED.
    When MMR Vaccination Rate Declined – Autism Rate Declined.
    When MMR was replaced with 3 Vaccines – Autism Rate DOUBLED – again.

    All Evidence that Vaccines cause Autism (in children with a Genetic Weakness).

    #1669684

    2scents
    Participant

    Dooms,

    “These diseases used to be listed in Medical Textbooks as BENIGN Childhood Diseases.”

    Really? Do you have those textbooks? (or you are just quoting some website?)

    I am sure that you will find just a fe quotes from the older textbooks of interest to you. For the record, measles is catagorized as a very serious disease in the older textbooks.

    From the Critique 1905: (you can google the text and you will find this otherwise interesting older medical textbook).

    “Measles is a dangerous disease-one of the most dangerous with which a child under five years of age can be attacked. It is especially apt to be fatal to teething children. It tends to kill by producing inflammation of the lungs. It prepares the way for consumption. It tends to maim by producing inflammations of the ears and eyes. Measles has carried off more than four times as many persons as enteric fever. It is therefore a great mistake to look upon measles as a trifling disease. Every child ill with measles ought at once to be put to bed and kept warm, for the mildest cases may be made serious by a chill. Measles is for this reason most dangerous in winter and spring. The older a child is, the less likely it is to catch measles, and if it does, the less likely it is to die. If every child could be protected from measles until It had passed its fifth year the mortality from this disease would be enormously decreased. It is therefore a great mistake – because as a rule children sooner or later have measles – to say, “The sooner the better,” and to take no measures to protect them, or even deliberately to expose them to infection.”

    Thesis on Measles for the degree of doctor of medicine from the University of Edinburgh: 1908

    “Measles is an acute, infectious, eruptive febrile
    disease, which commences with marked catarrhal symptoms,
    and later develops a characteristic rash of a maculopapular nature.
    Its highly infectious character is particularly
    noteworthy, as also its occurrence in childhood or near
    the age of puberty. The eruption usually occurs about
    the fourth day of the fever; and it can, in from thirty
    to forty hours, be seen to have overspread. the entire
    body of the patient – accompanying which phenomenon
    will be observed catarrh of the air -passages and a
    ‘greater or less degree of pyrexia. Furthermore, there are
    few individuals who escape the disease in early life,
    though it is sometimes to be observed at a later period
    – even in old -age .In the case of children especially,
    it is apt to be a very dangerous disease – the more so
    as mothers are apt to regard it as a malady from which
    there can be no escape, and which, in view of its frequency, is comparatively harmless in its occurrence. ”

    “The changes observed in the case of the lungs
    appear to differ in no essential particulars from those
    occurring in the course of other affections. Many of the
    cases die from bronchopneumonia, which affection seems
    to differ from that seen in other diseases in its
    occasional greater tendency to suppuration; the outcome
    of the malady is sometimes, too, a ford of caseous
    pneumonia.Cornil and Babes (Quoted by Williams:- Trans.
    ‘fed.- Chir.Soc.,Vol.lxx.,p.77) insist upon the occurrence
    of a peripneumonic or form of p4monary inflammation
    peculiar to measles, and due to the direct action of the
    specific poison; it is said to occur early in the so-called suffocative cases of the disease”

    “The local action of the poison of measles sometimes results in disease of this organ: it usually takes
    the form of a focal necrosis. Preeman (Med.Rec., 1898,
    Vol.liv) observed this in about a third of all his
    fatal cases of measles; and he reports that, as the
    larger areas of necrosis are clearly distinguishable
    by the naked eye,”

    “The case’ of
    measles without eruption reported by Rilliet (loc.cit . p.249) happened to be very severe, and occurred in a
    child of twenty -one months of age infected from two
    others in whom the disease had run a normal course.The
    fever and concomitant catarrh were observed to be of the
    ordinary kind; but, instead of the expected eruption
    developing, double lobar pneumonia appeared on the
    fourth day and spread very rapidly, the child dying on
    the eighth day of the disease”

    “According to the official returns,
    in England and Wales from 1839- 1841, during the months
    of January to march, there were 8106 fatal cases; from
    April to June,8907; from July to September,6610; and from
    October to December, there were 7213 deaths ”

    “That certain forms of measles may take on a malignant tendency is the experience of almost everyone.
    Edgar (lo c . cit .) ”

    #1669689

    2scents
    Participant

    Dooms.

    “The sibling/twin studies prove there is a Genetic Component.”

    Your really funny, how is it that there is sufficient ‘proof’ that shows there is a genetic component, but not that genetics is the primary or only factor in autism?

    Is that because if this were the case, then your position on vaccines would collapse?

    The fact autism cannot yet be diagnosed in a blood test, does not mean that it is not genetic. Of course you will claim otherwise, yet you do not get to decide on the definitions of genetics, proof or facts.

    “All you have proof is that there ARE children who are more susceptible to Autism then Others”

    Correct, more like a 95% susceptibility.

    “But there IS a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed study that shows that Vaccinated Kids have a much higher
    rate of Autism (and other diseases). THAT IS Evidence that Vaccines Cause Autism.”

    If such a study exists, it would be interesting to review it and have other epidemiologists review it as well, let it be open to the scrutiny all other studies undergo. Don’t just keep it for yourself.

    “The Autism Rate from 1:10,000 (NON VERBAL) to 1:;150 (NON VERBAL) after the CDC
    QUADRUPLED the Vaccine Schedule.
    That is also EVIDENCE that vaccines cause Autism (and other diseases).”

    its not evidence, you have failed to respond to my request that you actually prove that this is the case and to provide the numbers of percentages that were in the DSM III and DSM IV, before you do so, your guilty of what you accused others of doing when (Correctly) presenting the sharp decrease in SIDS. You are using increases in diagnosis as if they were increases in prevalences.

    “All Evidence that Vaccines cause Autism (in children with a Genetic Weakness).”
    Not at all, regardless of how many times you state so.

    #1669703

    EY Mom
    Participant

    Doomsday
    1) “It is extremely rare for a child in USA or other first world country to die from
    Measles, Chicken Pox, Roto Virus, Rubella or Whooping Cough.” Of course it is. Because in first world countries, most kids get vaccines. This whole vaccine thing blew up now because someone in EY went to Russia and brought the measles back with them. And yes, children did die from measles (one was niftar a couple of months ago in Yerushalayim r”l). But the at-risk population is not only children. Pregnant women who caught measles often miscarried or went into early labor, and those who caught rubella in the first trimester either miscarried, had stillborn babies, or had babies with severe birth defects in all but 10% of cases.

    2) Why do you keep harping on that one study? You know what? Let’s say for argument’s sake that it was falsified. So what? It’s not the only study that debunked the myth of vaccines causing autism. What about the rest of them?

    3) I still don’t get why you won’t name your sources. What do you care if they get attacked? And what is a “PhD scientist?” That tells me nothing at all. You can get a doctorate in just about anything.

    4) Truth – give me a break. The CDC doesn’t “put” anyone on a quack watch list. And yes, most of the people on these lists who are associated with the anti-vaxx movement were quacks before they got on the anti-vaxx train.

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