Studies on vaccines you might have missed.👨‍🔬💉🚫

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    You need to stop repeatedly misquoting studies to further your agenda. (the fact that you are quoting some person from a website or blog does not make this right).

    This is from the chart of the study:
    As you can see, the years are years of birth.

    Year of Birth: 1988
    Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 19.6
    Rate of MMR vaccination: 69.8%

    Year of Birth: 1989
    Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 37.0
    Rate of MMR vaccination: 42.9%

    Year of Birth: 1990
    Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 51.5
    Rate of MMR vaccination: 33.6%

    Year of Birth: 1991
    Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 26.6
    Rate of MMR vaccination: 24.0%

    Year of Birth: 1992
    Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 30.3
    Rate of MMR vaccination: 1.8%

    Year of Birth: 1993
    Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 49.8

    Year of Birth: 1994
    Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 87.1

    Year of Birth: 1995
    Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 73.5

    Year of Birth: 1996
    Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 81.4

    “According to Yokohama statistics, MMR vaccination
    rates declined from 69.8% in the 1988 birth cohort,
    to 42.9%, 33.6%, 24.0%, and a mere 1.8% in birth
    cohorts 1989 to 1992”

    If the MMR vaccine was a factor in causing autism, explain the rise in autism incidence while the MMR vaccine has been sharply reduced to almost zero yet in the meantime there was a rise in autism to the very same groups of children.

    Btw, these numbers are childhood autism, if you look at the charge to other ASD and all ASD, the numbers are more or less the same.


    Doomsday has invented a new type of science and expects everyone else to follow it.


    doomsday -“Health, Do you work for VAXOPEDIA?”
    “If not, why do you keep posting quotes from VAXOPEDIA or other Pro-Vax Websites?”
    Because they speak the Truth!
    “Or maybe you work for Pharmaceutical Company?”
    “Pharmaceutical is a TRILLION Dollar Industry – Biggest, Most Powerful Industry IN THE WORLD!”

    Why do you constantly repeat yourself?

    “Health, Vaxopedia is caught in a LIE once again!
    Anti-Vaxxers don’t claim that better hygiene and better nutrition ELIMINATED DISEASE.
    The claim is that the DEATH RATE from the disease declined 90% BEFORE Vaccines.
    It is extremely rare for a child in USA or other first world country to die from
    Measles, Chicken Pox, Roto Virus, Rubella or Whooping Cough.”

    The Only Ones who Lie are the Anti-Vaxxers!
    From Vaxopedia:
    “Measles Deaths in the 21st Century
    Breaking News – there are reports of two new deaths in Italy, including a young patient who died of measles encephalitis in 2017 and a young adult with leukemia just last month. (see below)
    Measles is a big killer.
    According to the WHO, “In 2015, there were 134,200 measles deaths globally – about 367 deaths every day or 15 deaths every hour.”
    But it wasn’t that long ago, in 1980, that measles was causing at least 2.6 million deaths a year. And just 17 years ago, in 2000, measles caused about 777,000 deaths worldwide.
    Measles Deaths in the 21st Century
    While some experts doubt if we will ever truly eradicate measles, like we have done for smallpox, a lot of progress is being made on reducing measles outbreaks and deaths thanks to routine and supplemental immunizations.
    Tragically, measles still kills.
    “For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.”
    CDC – Complications of Measles
    And it is not just in developing countries that don’t have access to vaccines or adequate levels of vitamin A or modern healthcare. It should also be obvious, when you look at the cases below, that you don’t have to wait for there to be a 1,000 people in an outbreak for there to be a death. It could be the first person in the outbreak or you might see three deaths between cases 3,000 to 4,000.

    Dr. Bob Sears actually reassured parents that measles wasn’t deadly in developed countries, neglecting to mention the dozens of people who have died in outbreaks in Europe – another well-nourished population with lower vaccination rates than the U.S.

    During the 2010 and 2011 outbreaks in Europe, after all, with about 30,000 cases of measles each year, there were at least 28 deaths. It’s worse now…
    The National Center for Communicable Disease Control and Control in Romania is now reporting 59 measles deaths.
    In the last few years, there are reports of at least 118 deaths in the measles outbreaks across Europe, including:
    the death of a 10-month-old unvaccinated child in Bulgaria (among just 163 cases)
    four deaths in France – a 16-year-old unvaccinated girl from Nice, who died in Marseille, a 32-year-old unvaccinated women in Poitiers, a 26-year-old with immune system problems who was probably infected by an unvaccinated relative, and a 16-year-old in Bordeaux, an immunosuppressed girl who had received a heart transplant when she was 2 years old. Three of the deaths have occurred in 2018 and there have been just 2,567 reported cases since November 2017.
    the death of a 37-year-old partially vaccinated women (the mother of 3 kids) in Essen, Germany (among about 866 cases)
    four deaths in Greece, where there have been 2,830 cases – including an 11-month-old unvaccinated infant, a 35-year old partially vaccinated mother, an unvaccinated 17-year-old, and a vaccinated, but immunosuppressed 18-year-old.
    at least twelve deaths in Italy (four in 2017 and six in 2018, among just 7,649 cases), including a 6-year-old boy with leukemia who reportedly caught measles from an unvaccinated sibling. The other deaths included an unvaccinated 9-year-old girl, a 16-month-old, a man with a compromised immune system, a 27-year-old woman, a 25-year-old woman, and a 10-month-old boy.
    two deaths in Kosovo, including a baby who died in a hospital in Pristina.
    the death of a 17-year-old girl who was not vaccinated in Portugal (among just 31 cases)
    59 deaths in Romania, almost all unvaccinated children without preexisting conditions, including a three week old baby (among 14,142 cases since January 2016)
    at least 15 deaths in Serbia (among about 5,598 cases), including a 20-year-old unvaccinated man, a two year old boy and mother, an unvaccinated 4-year-old, and a previously healthy, unvaccinated 30 year old woman.
    one death in Spain
    the death of a vaccinated man who was being treated for leukemia in Switzerland (among just 69 cases)
    17 deaths in Ukraine – eleven children and six adults, including an unvaccinated toddler who died at a children’s hospital in Odessa and a 10-month old (among about 24,000 cases, mostly unvaccinated children). This includes five deaths in 2017 – three children and two adults, among about 4,782 cases.
    Unfortunately, measles cases continue to rise in most of these countries and many others”


    In USA, Measles kill about 1:10,000 – not 1-2:1,000 as CDC Lies.
    This is from CDC’s own website:
    “In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died,”
    If 4 Million cases of Measles resulted in 400 deaths – that is about 1:10,000.
    And this was in the 1950s – I am sure doctors can do even better today.

    The 1-2 deaths per 1,000 is for THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES where children are starving.
    A few of those European Deaths included children who had cancer or were immune suppressed.

    I’m not saying that healthy people NEVER die of Measles – but it is very rare.
    A person is much more likely to die in a car accident – and nobody is freaking out about driving
    in a car.
    This is Fake News MANUFACTURED Hysteria about an illness nobody was concerned about
    years ago.

    EY Mom

    Doomsday, the catch is in the “among reported cases” phrase. They didn’t put that in for no reason. Unlike today, when anyone who suspects his child has measles will go straight to the pediatrician’s office, then not everyone went to the doctor. They kept their kids as comfortable as possible and hoped for the best. I would also imagine that in that scenario, if a kid came down with pneumonia as a result of the measles and ch”v died, the cause of death would be listed as pneumonia – not measles. Same for encephalitis.

    As for concern, of course people were concerned. There just wasn’t much they could do about it before vaccines came along. Same for tuberculosis and mumps. And cut fingers before penicillin. You did what you could and hoped you’d be on the bright side of the statistics.

    And your car example doesn’t work. The world is very concerned about car accidents. That’s why we have so many road safety rules: Because the road is a very dangerous place and we have to do whatever we can to keep it as safe as possible. Neither you nor any of us on this thread (I would assume) ever lived in a world where measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, polio etc. were a fact of life. If you had, you might feel differently about vaccines.


    “This is Fake News MANUFACTURED Hysteria about an illness nobody was concerned about
    years ago.”

    Stop this nonsense, You have made so many incorrect statements that have been shown to be incorrect and the opposite of the truth, why are you still at it?

    Multiple sources of older medical textbooks that have shown that unlike you have stated, measles was considered a dangerous disease.

    In fact, right now during the current outbreak in our community, there has been a large percentage of sick children, in line with the expected percentages of children that would become very sick from the measles.

    Many children were taken to the hospital, some were kept for observation others admitted to the ICU for aggressive supportive care so that they can survive.

    Its understood that a large number of fatalities back in the day might not have occurred today due to the advancements of medicine and the supportive care that is available, yet this in no way makes this to be a benign disease.

    Some will argue that due to toilets being available and cleaner water there is a greater survivability today, believe me, that none of the ICUs have better toilets or water, the children that are there are there only because of the advanced medical capabilities provided in the ICUs.

    The sad part is that many of these fanatical parents that are or have been in the hospital with their children believe that it is worth taking a bullet for the rest of us, they have been brainwashed from the likes of you.

    All these ignoramuses that have hotlines and magazines promoting anti-vaccine nonsense, those that do ‘measles parties’ and publicly advocate against vaccinations, are clearly guilty of suffering to many children. Only because there has BH not been any deaths does not mean that this has not yet caused harm and is benign.

    Some Common Sense

    Which comes first for Anti-Vaxxers: the science or the conclusion?


    Doomsday -“This is Fake News MANUFACTURED Hysteria about an illness nobody was concerned about years ago.”

    Another Lie! You Anti-vaxxers have pushed many in the Frum community not to Vaxx & Nowadays there is nothing to worry about!
    This is very much far from the Truth.
    The Frum community & their schools don’t tolerate TV & unfiltered internet in peoples’ homes.
    But they tolerate Non-vaxxers – which are spreading diseases!

    Here is the Truth:
    “Measles Morbidity and Mortality in the Developed World are Greater than
    the Public Perceives.
    James D. Cherry, MD, MSc, FIDSA1
    and Ulrich Heininger, MD2
    Pediatric Infectious
    Diseases, University of California, Los Angeles, David Geffen School of Medicine, Los
    Angeles, California, 2
    University of Basel Children’s Hospital, Basel, Switzerland
    Session: 233. Clinical: Respiratory Track
    Saturday, October 7, 2017: 12:30 PM
    Background. Measles mortality and morbidity are staggering in the developing
    world partly because of widespread malnutrition. In the U.S.  and other developed
    countries, individuals with compromised cellular immunity from immune-suppres-
    sive treatments and HIV are also at increased risk of measles complications; however
    measles is perceived by many as a routine childhood illness of little consequence.
    Misinformation about alleged risks of measles containing vaccines (MCV) has led to
    continued endemic and epidemic measles in the developed world.
    Methods. Present CDC data and data published by one of us (JDC) are reviewed
    for measles morbidity and mortality. The categories examined included: deaths,
    encephalitis, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) and post measles immune
    amnesia (PMIA). Data are presented as rates per 100,000 per year and are stratified by
    age, sex and degree of immune competence.
    Results. The following approximate numbers per 100,000 cases in immunocom-
    petent persons were determined: deaths – 200; encephalitis – 100; SSPE – 100; PMIA
    – 12. Ratios for death and SSPE were higher in males and in infants. The infant with
    measles will have an overall risk of a severe outcome (death, SSPE or encephalitis of
    1:215). Similarly, the risk in an older child would be 1:379. The risk in males is greater
    than in females. The risk for death due to PMIA is small; however, the risk of specific
    diseases such as pneumonia and meningitis are considerable.
    Conclusion. Measles is endemic and epidemic in Europe, much of Asia, and in
    Africa. Therefore, importations into the U.S. will continue to occur and non-immune
    persons will get measles.
    To prevent the extended morbidity and mortality as described, and to protect those
    who cannot receive a MCV, extended immunization efforts need to be carried out in
    the U.S. These efforts include: giving the second dose of a measles, mumps, rubella
    (MMR) vaccine at 15 months rather than 4–6 years, fill immunization gaps by seeing
    that they all have received 2 doses of a MCV or have demonstrated serum antibody to
    measles virus in adults, and discourage travel to measles endemic and epidemic areas
    by all persons who are not immune (infants < 1 yr of age and persons who have not
    received 2 doses of vaccine or have evidence of measles serum antibody).”


    continues munching popcorn


    From the Department of Health, Commonwealth of Pensylvania (1953) -Bib_id 1540628

    “Measles is a serious disease. When parents fully realize that it is the most contagious of all the diseases, that it frequently leads to permanent deafness or to defective eyesight that it causes more deaths than does scarlet fever they will be more willing to protect their children from it and more anxious to obtains a doctor’s services promptly”

    “Measles is essentially a disease of early childhood, It is most serious at this period. Among the children of Pennsylvania contracting measles, 32% are under five years of age and 85% of the many deaths from this malady occur in this age period.”

    ” Children of the household who are known to have had measles may attend school if they obtain permits from the health officer to do so. Teachers must not accept any other certificate. The health officer, however, will not issue this permit unless the records show that the child at one time had been ill and quarantined for the disease. Children who have not had measles much remain out of school and at home under quarantine until released by the health officer. Adults are not included in the quarantine.”

    Some Common Sense

    Based on this, are Anti-Vaxxer really Rodefim and a danger to the public which the consequences for same are in the Shulhan Aruch?

    Some Common Sense

    it appears the facts and truth have come to light finally, so make an appointment with you doctor.


    “It was seeing all the FRAUD committed by the Vaccines are Safe Studies that make me
    an Anti-Vaxxer!”

    I guess that based on Dooms recent statement Dooms is reconsidering her position on the matter.

    I refrained from responding to the many insults that Dooms and others that used derogatory labels (in CAPS), this is not a way to have a mature discussion. Especially a discussion of this magnitude, of public health.

    There will always be conspiracists and always will there be individuals with alternative agendas promoting an alternative theory.


    “What We Don’t See”
    Margaret Kendrick Hostetter, M.D. (NEJM)

    “One has but to view the tombstones in colonial
    cemeteries to understand that death in childhood
    represented a grievous but seemingly inexorable
    trajectory. The death toll from infection among
    the very young was often obscured in colonial epidemics, when smallpox, diphtheria, cholera, dysentery, and measles typically killed without respect to age. In November 1713, for example, the
    wife of the Puritan minister Cotton Mather died
    in a measles epidemic, along with her newborn
    twins, a 2-year-old daughter, and a servant. Two
    sons and four daughters, all older than 7 years of
    age, survived.13 Apart from these individual tragedies, however, there was little recognition of the
    special susceptibility of children, particularly those
    under 5 years of age, until the diphtheria epidemic in New England (1735 through 1740), in which
    80% of its 5000 victims — almost 2.5% of the
    population — were children.13
    By the middle of the 19th century, a child’s
    death, far from intolerable, was frequently viewed
    as blessed,”

    “In the mid-1950s, twice as many children died
    from measles as from poliomyelitis,13 and the immunologic principles and clinical efficacy of the
    attenuated measles virus vaccine in a variety of
    childhood populations were thoroughly detailed
    in a series of eight landmark articles, all published
    in the July 28, 1960, issue of the Journal.
    32-39 The
    combined measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine,
    developed by Maurice Hilleman in 1971, was a
    boon for pediatrics and obstetrics alike”


    Viruses, Plagues, and History: Past, Present and Future
    By Michael B. A. Oldstone M.D. (P.146)

    “When introduced into isolated, relatively small communities, measles viruses attacked with disastrous consequences. Such infections of rural populations not previously exposed to childhood illnesses ran wild, especially during times of war and with the forced migration of people fleeing their enemies.”

    “Two-thirds of soldiers who died in that war, 660,000 in all, were killed by uncontrolled infectious disease. Of these, over 67,000 members of the Union Army had measles, and more than 4,000 died”

    “During this first year of the war, 21,676 cases of measles and 551 related deaths were reported in the Union Army alone. Deaths were primarily from respiratory and cerebral (brain) involvement. A written record indicates, “This infection is always serious, often fatal either directly or through its sequelae, The prognosis therefire should be guarded”.

    Some Common Sense

    On Januaryy 24, 2019 you stated:

    Polio is a serious illness but measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, rotovirus, whooping cough are not. And before vaccines were invented these illnesses were listed in medical textbooks as
    BENIGN Childhood diseases. They only became “deadly” when Pharmaceutical Co developed vaccine.

    They are not benign diseases are they with that many people dying are they?


    More from older medical textbooks.

    William P. Northrup, M.D. (1902) P.122

    “Many factors must be taken into consideration in order to foretell the outcome of this disease. No other infection is so uncertain as to its results as that under consideration, the most hopeless cases often making a complete recovery, and those which we have reason to regard as most benign not infrequently causing death.”

    “This has an important bearing upon prognosis, as may be seen by the following table, compiled by Burrows from a series of 2093 cases occurring at the Boston City Hospital during 1900 and 1901.

    In children under five years death occurred in 21.3%; in children of from five to ten years death occurred in 8.40%; in children of from ten to fifteen years death occurred in 3.10%.”

    “The following table, from Biggs and Guerard (1896), of laryngeal cases of treated with anti-toxin will show the death-rate, etc.
    Total cases treated: 15,148
    Deaths: 2,626”

    “The occurrence of diphtheria during an epidemic of measles at the New York Foundling Hospital in the past years added greatly to the mortality of the latter disease.”


    More from older textbooks.
    Those that are advocating against vaccines have the luxury of not being exposed to these terrible diseases only because of vaccines.

    Dr. H. Richardiere

    “It is difficult to fix the duration of whooping-cough. The various authors who have essayed to do so (Rilliet and Barthez, West, H. Roger) are unanimous in stating that uncomplicated whooping-cough has a duration wavering between one-and-a-half and two-and-a-half months. Cases of the disease lasting only a month are rare; those persisting for several months are not exceptional.”

    “They constitute the true complications, imparting to whooping-cough its gravity and (in the majority of mortal cases) its fatal termination. These inflammatory complications are peculiarly liable to assail the respiratory apparatus, but they do not altogether spare the other organs, of which almost all are exposed to attack in different degrees;”

    “Before proceeding to study the consequences of an inflammatory condition of the thoracic organs it is proper to say that sometimes, in the absence ‘of any appreciable complication, an intense whooping, cough causes death by the very difficulty of respiration and by disturbances of haematosis. The fatal termination is then due to progressive asphyxia, no lesion of the thoracic organs being produced”

    “Generally speaking, broncho-pneumonia ensues as a complication in one-fifth the total number of whooping-cough cases of whatever intensity (Joffroy). In a review of 431 cases of whooping-cough, H.
    Roger cites 68 cases of pneumonia and bronchopneumonia. Of these 68 cases, 51 resulted fatally.”

    “Glottic spasm may produce rapid and almost sudden death, and to this accident are due almost all the cases of sudden death observed in whooping cough.”

    “The convulsions are of extreme gravity in whooping-cough. When they accompany a pulmonary complication such as broncho-pneumonia, they inevitably end in early death. Supervening independently of
    any complication, the prognosis still remains of the utmost gravity. Six times out of seven they cause death (Rilliet and Barthez). When they do not kill through spasm of the glottis, they kill by the cerebral
    hyperemia, evident signs of which are revealed by autopsy.”

    “We have seen that a quarter of all cases of whooping-cough are serious and terminate almost
    uniformly in death. Furthermore, cases of mean intensity may result fatally in consequence of a complication. We may accordingly conclude that 35 to 40 percent, of the cases observed in hospital have a fatal termination; and this proportion is in accord with that of H. Roger, who found death to ensue in the ratio of 142 out of 423 cases observed in his department of the Hospital for Sick Children.”


    2scents -“More from older textbooks.
    Those that are advocating against vaccines have the luxury of not being exposed to these terrible diseases only because of vaccines.
    Dr. H. Richardiere

    Well – Now that we have Anti-vaxxers – we Now have a resurgence of Pertussis (Whooping Cough).
    The Gov. switched to DTaP, instead of DTP.
    Thanks Anti-Vaxxers!
    From Vaxopedia:
    “A Shot at the Dark – DPT vs DTaP
    Everyone knows that the DPT vaccine caused a lot of vaccine injuries, right?
    “I got interested in the topic of vaccines way back in medical school. A friend of mine convinced me to read a book about vaccines, and it ended up being a very anti-vaccine book. It was all about an old vaccine called the DTP vaccine that we don’t use anymore. But the book talked a lot about the risks and the dangers of that vaccine. The author of that book was calling for that vaccine to no longer be used.
    A number of years later, it turns out that they did discover that vaccine was causing a lot of very severe, life-threatening, even fatal side effects, so they did end up taking that vaccine off the market.
    So it kind of opened my eyes to the fact that there are some very severe, fortunately very rare, side effects to vaccines, and I wanted to learn more about this issue. I started reading a lot more books.”
    Bob Sears, MD on The Vaccine War
    After all, it was after reports of those vaccine injuries, including seizures and encephalitis, that led to:
    lawsuits and many pharmaceutical companies to stop making vaccines
    the DPT: Vaccine Roulette special airing on TV
    Barbara Loe Fisher, believing that her child was damaged by the DPT vaccine, forming the Dissatisfied Parents Together organization (she later changed the name to the National Vaccine Information Center), and writing the book DPT: A Shot in the Dark (this is the anti-vaccine book that Bob Sears is talking about above)
    the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Act passing in 1986, creating the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and the Vaccine Court
    the DTaP vaccine replacing the DTP vaccine
    But were those reports true?
    And did they ever really discover that the DPT “vaccine was causing a lot of very severe, life-threatening, even fatal side effects,” which led to them “taking that vaccine off the market” as Dr. Bob said?
    A Shot at the Dark
    It is easy to think that they were true, as we don’t use the DTP vaccine anymore.
    But was it ever “taken off the market?”
    “During the period of transition from use of whole-cell DTP to DTaP, whole-cell DTP is an acceptable alternative to DTaP for any of the five doses. For the first four doses, whole-cell DTP combined with Hib vaccine (DTP-Hib vaccine) is an acceptable alternative to DTaP and Hib vaccine administered at separate sites.”
    ACIP on Pertussis Vaccination: Use of Acellular Pertussis Vaccines Among Infants and Young Children Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices
    No, it was replaced by a newer vaccine – DTaP.
    And actually, it is still used in some parts of the world.
    The whole-cell DTP vaccine did cause more side effects than the newer DTaP vaccine, but we are talking about relatively mild side effects, like local reactions, pain, and fever. And while that it is good, it comes at a cost, a less effective vaccine.
    What about epilepsy and encephalitis?
    After all of the scare about the DPT vaccine, studies quickly showed that it didn’t cause all of the bad side effects that folks say it did.
    After all of the scare about the DPT vaccine, studies quickly showed that it didn’t cause all of the bad side effects that folks say it did.
    One clue that the DTP vaccine didn’t cause many of the problems that were blamed on it, is that the same vaccine lawsuits that were succeeding in driving vaccine manufacturers out of business in the United States, were failing in the UK.
    “Where given effects, such as serious neurological disease or permanent brain damage, occur with or without pertussis vaccination, it is only possible to assess whether the vaccine is a cause, or more precisely a risk factor, when the background incidence of the disease is taken into account. The question therefore is, does the effect occur more often after pertussis vaccination than could be expected by chance?”
    Justice Jeremy Stuart-Smith
    There is also the fact that many children who were originally thought to have been vaccine injured after their DPT vaccine are now known to have Dravet syndrome.
    Without a diagnosis, Cossolotto said, she would probably still believe — erroneously — that the DPT shot caused Michaela’s illness. “I understand this is a genetic condition,” she said. “Having an answer does make a difference.”
    Medical mystery: Seizures strike baby after routine vaccine
    And then there are the reports and studies that found:
    no association with brain injury, epilepsy, SIDS, or infantile spasms
    no increased risk for serious neurological illness in the week after getting vaccinated with DPT
    no increased risk for encephalopathy in the 90 days after receiving DTP and MMR vaccines
    no difference in severe reactions after DPT vs DTaP, including encephalopathy, seizures, and allergic reactions
    So no, the DPT vaccine was never really as dangerous as folks said or thought it was, despite what you might read or hear in anti-vaccine books or news reports.
    What to Know About the Safety of the DPT Vaccine
    Misconceptions about the risks and safety of the DPT vaccine created the modern anti-vaccine movement and unfortunately, continues to influence many people.”

    DTP lasts longer than DTaP!
    From NIH Online:
    “Long-term Protection: Differences between DTP and DTaP
    Although DTaP vaccines wane rapidly, an important issue was whether long-term protection, particularly during pertussis outbreaks, differed among individuals who had only received DTaP and those who received DTP. To address this, we investigated whether pertussis risk during the California epidemic differed among teenagers according to vaccine type (DTP/DTaP) received in infancy and early childhood. This case-control study included subjects born between 1994 through 1999, spanning the transition from DTP to DTaP vaccines, who had received their first 4 pertussis vaccines in KPNC. Teenagers (10–17 y old in 2010) who had received 4 doses of DTaP during the first two years of life were approximately 6 times more likely to be PCR positive for pertussis than were those who had received 4 doses of DTP (OR 5.6, 95% CI 2.6–12.5).69 Further, each additional DTaP received instead of DTP was associated with, on average, a 40% increased risk of pertussis (OR 1.4 95% CI 1.2–1.6). This study demonstrated that DTaP provided substantially less long-term protection against pertussis during the California outbreak.”


    This will be the last bump (for now), just in case Dooms, Truth, ProVaxx or any of the others that were trying to claim that this vaccination thing is a wild conspiracy, are still around.

    Let us take a look at one more of these ‘benign’ vaccine-preventable diseases. Once again, it is the vaccines that afford us the luxury to make the claim that these diseases are benign, it is the vaccines that made us expect children to survive infancy.

    Management of
    Chronic Infectious Diseases In School Children.
    Illinois State Board of Education

    “Congenital rubella syndrome (CRS) is a severe disease caused by rubella virus infection usually contracted by a woman who is in her first trimester of pregnancy. Approximately 25 percent of such infections will result in disease in the developing fetus that is recognizable at birth. Of the remaining 75 percent who appear normal at birth, 55 percent may be found to be affected by age two. The incidence of fetal infection is much less when the infections occur later in pregnancy. Fetuses exposed after 16 weeks of gestation have a 10-20 percent risk of infection. Infections beyond the 20th week of gestation rarely result in defects. Affected children may have mental retardation, cataracts, glaucoma, heart defects, hearing defects, and bone defects. ”

    “Rubella is a highly contagious viral infection which is spread through direct and indirect contact with an individual who has the disease or a CRS child who continues to shed the virus primarily during the first eighteen months of life.”

    This is something that Dooms might find of interest, especially being a special ed therapist with a focus on autism.

    The Neurology of Autism.
    “After the last big epidemic in the United States in 1964, many cases of children with rubella autism were published. One rubella birth defect evaluation project in New York identified 10 children with autism and 8 more with limited autistic symptoms (Chess et al. 18971).”

    Chess S. (1977) Follow-up Report on autism in congenital rubella.
    Journal of Autism and Childhood Schizophrenia. PMID: 576606

    “A longitudinal study was conducted of 243 children with congenital rubella. In this sample a high rate of autism and a high rate of recovery were observed. Examination of the data suggested that the rubella virus was the primary etiologic agent. It is hypothesized that the course of autism was that of a chronic infection in which recovery, chronicity, improvement, worsening, and delayed appearance of the autistic syndrome all were found. Other rubella consequences such as blindness, deafness, and cardiac and neuromuscular defects remained present except as modified by operations and prostheses.”


    Frontiers in Human Neuroscience · February 2016
    DOI: 10.3389/fnhum.2016.00025

    “In Philadelphia, Lindquist, Plotkin, and peers estimated approximately 1–1.4% of all births had been affected by rubella during the 1960s outbreaks (Lindquist et al., 1965), the largest outbreaks in US history. In 1964–1965 alone, the US saw an estimated 12.5 million cases of rubella, resulting in 2000 cases of encephalitis (or 1 in 6250 cases), 11,250 abortions, 2100 cases of neonatal deaths, and 20,000 cases of CRS. Of the 20,000 cases of CRS: 11,000 (55%) were deaf, 3580 (17.9%) were blind, and 1800 (9%) were mentally retarded (Jacobson et al., 2009). During these largest outbreaks in US history, the association of rubella and autism became apparent, but only through massive numbers of known infected individuals. The strongest argument against a spurious association is the fact the children studied with CRS had prevalence rates of autism over 200 times that of the overall prevalence rate of autism at that time, the 1970s.”


    Now that we have over 1800 posts on this topic – Why do we have epidemics of Measels in the Frum communties? These Anti-Vaxxers should Not be allowed in Frum schools!

    Some Common Sense

    because there are individuals that are anti-science, anti-doctors and only believe in their “experts” like a new religion.
    It appears from our Jewish orthodox leaders, the answer is clearly NO; they should not be allows except for specific health reasons like cancers.


    SCS -“It appears from our Jewish orthodox leaders, the answer is clearly NO”

    IDK about other towns, but here in Lakewood they only removed the kids from schools during the Measles epdemic. It’s probably the same everywhere. You could send your kid to Jewish school even if they aren’t vaxxed!


    The longer a post is, the harder it is to refute.

    Some Common Sense

    please read this month Z’Man article on this topic.

    If that don’t change your mind, that nothing will.


    SCS -“Health,
    please read this month Z’Man article on this topic.”

    I don’t get the Zman. If you have a point – Post it!


    From the News on the West Coast:
    From the “Daily Beast”:
    “Parents Are at War Over Measles Outbreak”
    “One mom vented: ‘Honestly what is wrong with people? Let’s eradicate a disease—but then bring it back just for fun because we’re a stupid society!’”


    I don’t think you read the actual study

    CONCLUSIONS Undervaccination appears to be an increasing trend. Undervaccinated children appear to have different health care utilization patterns compared with age-appropriately vaccinated children.


    Kalman. M -“I don’t think you read the actual study”

    1. Who are you talking to?
    2. And which post?
    3. Are you an Anti-Vaxxer or a Pro – vaxxer?

    Some Common Sense

    the whole Anti-Vaxxer movement is based on deliberate fraud and therefore everyone should discuss the matter with their doctors rather than quarks


    ” Unlike today, when anyone who suspects his child has measles will go straight to the pediatrician’s office, then not everyone went to the doctor. They kept their kids as comfortable as possible and hoped for the best.”

    Going to the doctor if you suspect measles is an easy way to spread it. Stay home and call the doctor and get instructions on what to do. Measles can be tested with a urine sample which can easily be delivered to the doctor’s office without the possibly infected child in toe. The problem is people are scared of the measles as if it was bubonic plague or ebola. To be clear, it’s not benign, it’s risky, absolutely, but panic will not help. Keep a level head, call the doctor and quarantine the child. They will have high fever, upper respiratory infection (cough, runny nose, possibly ear infection), red eyes, possibly diarrhea and sore throat. 4 days before the rash and four days after they are contagious. Beezras Hashem, they will get through it without complications. The CDC recommends vitamin A supplements to prevent complications, look up how much depending on age. There is nothing for the doctor to do for you other than to tell you to “keep the child comfortable” and keep an eye in case of complications. It’s a virus, there is no medication. Lots of rest, lots of fluids and lots of siyata dishmaya.

    If you think you need to go to the hospital, call ahead and let them know so they can wait for you at the door with a mask so you won’t infect anyone on your way in.

    Wash your hands and know that the virus can live on surfaces for 2 hours, so wipe your phone down before you leave the house.

    May all cholei Yisroel, pro and anti vax, have a refuah sheleima!


    Oh, we still doing this?


    Bumping, due to this being discussed on the YWN main news site.

    Do you like grouchy mods? 😣


    “Do you like grouchy mods”

    Can just imagine the mods waking up covered in sweat dreaming of the vaccines being anti chabad and arhuing about the shidduch crisis.


    Bump to re-open the discussion due to recent anti-vaxx things in the news.


    MAILBAG: A Family’s Nightmare of a Young Child With Measles

    Some insight as to what the measles virus can and does cause.

    The fact that the child recovered mean the suffering relevant? Would it only matter if Ch”v another child died?

    There are children that suffered much worse during the current outbreak. Those that are promoting this virus as if its mild and beneficial, are to blame for all of this suffering.



    Still waiting for Doomsday to respond.


    Soft bump.

    For those that have read something online that is anti vaccines and believe they have it all figured out.

    Read the old, as most of the new arguments are actually very old..

    Some Common Sense

    thank you for reopening this.

    To conclude, this is a matter of Halacha because it appears no one on this tread who is a world class expert on vaccinations equal to argue with the far, far majority of doctors and there is no one on this tread who is a Gadol, Halacha obligates everyone to follow the Galolim and the far, far majority of doctors. If a individual rav feels they are equal to our Gadolim to poskim differently, that means they feel they are equal or greater than all of the Gadolim; the fools of those rabbis and the fools of the people that follow them who will have much to answer for in the next world.

    YW Moderator-25

    thank you for reopening this.

    I think we just forgot to close it.

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