Talking With Members of The Opposite Gender
Home › Forums › Inspiration / Mussar › Talking With Members of The Opposite Gender
Tagged: gender, is coffeeroom muttar
- This topic has 207 replies, 68 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 5 months ago by Mezonos Maven.
August 26, 2009 5:07 am at 5:07 am #663090
What is good enough? Not addressing anyone that Identifies themselves as being from the opposite gender. V’al Zeh Umru Harcheik Min Hachiur Umin Hadoimeh LoiAugust 26, 2009 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #663092
I think this is too important an issue for it’s Psak to be determined by general discussion
What you need to do, is personally visit a reliable Posek, perhaps one you know, whose name will be recognized by most of us here. Show him this website, explain that hundreds of Yiddim are at stake. Explain the necessity for him to give a written Psak. Then post it here. Otherwise you are wasting our time and your time and accomplishing nothing.August 26, 2009 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #663093
Mod 80, If ahavas follows your suggestion, and the posek paskens that females should not be chatting here, will that psak be implemented?August 26, 2009 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #663094
Mod 80, If ahavas follows your suggestion, and the posek paskens that females should not be chatting here, will that psak be implemented?
I don’t know; it’s not my decision.August 26, 2009 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #663095
Maybe we open 2 coffee rooms 😉August 26, 2009 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #663096
mod-80; As i said before it’s not a problem to get a Rav to say anything these days, even if I’ll bring the biggest Poiskei Hador to give a live Shiur saying 1 thing, 100 others bring their own Rav to say otherwise, even if Moisheh Rabbeinu would say Ossur, someone will say he’s to old & doesn’t remember, V’ho Raayoh, plenty have been brought down by others (& I have to compliment them, especially Joseph), and we still have to bring a Rav, even the Memrois of the G’moro were not enough, so maybe I’ll do something I said I will not do albeit only a bit, (bring down what & where it says). 1) Even Hoezer Siman 21 S’if 7 Ein Shoialin Bishloim Isho K’lal Afilu Al Y’dei Sh’liach “V’afilu Al Y’dei Baloh” V’osur Lishloiach Lo Divrei Sh’loimim, even sending her the greeting is forbidden! 2) G’moroh Yuma 74: Omar Raish Lokish etc. & Rambam Hilchois T’shuvoh 4 Uk’var Kosvu Horishoinim, where you can see how the Yetzer has people do things that are not explicitly Osur Kdai Sheloi Y’hei Liboi Noikfoi V’yachazir Bit’shuvoh. 3) Maseches Kalloh 1 Omar R’ Elozor Kol Hshoiseh, even unintetionally. 4) G’moro Nidoh 13. Kol Hameivi….Ein Machnisin Oisoi Lim’chitzosoi Shel HKB”H & the Rambam explains V’im Poga B’machashovoh Chetoi Godoil B’harbeh 5) Chinuch 188 even if he knows he will not faulter. 6)Y’rushalmi B’rochois P’1 H’8 Omar HKB”H Im At Uhiv Liboch V’einoch Ano Yodaano D’at Dili, what A Z’chus & S’char 7) Midrash Shir Hashirim 3, 13 T’nino B’shem R’ Doiso, ….Omar Hakodoish Boruch Hu Mi Shehu Oimeid B’yetzer Shel Haznus Maaloh Ani Olov K’ilu Oimeid Bishteihem (including S’char for A”Z which is not around anymore & there is no other way to get S’char for it) 8) G’moro Makois 23: R’ Shimoin Bar Rebi….Gezel V’aroyois….Hapoiresh Meihem…..Sheyizkeh Loi U’l’doiroisov…..Ad Soif Kol Hadoirois. I can go on & on, on the Isurim,on the Oineshim, & on the S’char, but I think I’ve said enough V’idoch Pirusho Zil G’moir. As to a Psak, obviously The Chasidishe are a given that it’s Osur or most here might not care, as for Litvish & Y’shivish would a P’sak from a Godoil like R’ Belsky count? If yes, when I come back from Asia next week I’ll meet him right away. ps. I might be off on “some” of the words qouted, all though I tried to qoute as much as possible verbaitim, V’Hashem Hatoiv Y’chaper. I still love each one of you!August 26, 2009 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #663097
In all seriousness, I think mepal’s idea is a very good one
or rather- there should be two separate General Schmooz threads. All other (serious) threads should not apply (IMHO)August 26, 2009 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #663098
Joseph; well asked! As for 2 rooms, good Idea, but we could just refrain addressing people we know are from the opposite gender directly, & the biggest problem is in the General, where it’s a free for all & some even imply…….., not hereAugust 26, 2009 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #663099
areivim, truthfully, I think its worse. Since girls will ‘think’ guys aren’t reading it, they might say things guys shouldnt hear/read. Chances are, the guys will be tempted to read what the girls are saying, and they will check the thread anyways since ‘no one is looking anyways’.
ames, lol! You crack me up! I think his posts are only for men to read. There’s a reason he writes them like that!August 26, 2009 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #663100tzippiMember
For the life of me, I cannot imagine any gadol wanting to publicly give his hechsher to the coffee room in any form, separate or mixed.August 26, 2009 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #663101
I read all the mekoros and appreciate you taking the time to point them out here. If we’re honest with ourselves, we can all use reminders now and thenAugust 26, 2009 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #663102
Right. And we should be standing up for our rights, right? lolAugust 26, 2009 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #663103
regarding posts in 2 separate General Schmooz threads: there are still mods for a reasonAugust 26, 2009 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #663104
lol, I just see it. ‘General shmooz-female’, ‘General shmooz-male’. Ask the editor what he thinks.August 26, 2009 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #663105
We need to stop making this into a personal issue- nobody is looking to kick anyone out of the CR. After all, I’m the Marketing Manager 🙂
I can’t preach to others about what their weak points are- but it’s obvious from the back and forth going on in the CR that IN GENERAL we need this reminder. It’s ok to admit one’s faults- it can only serve to further your t’shuva; assuming that is our goal in this month of Ellul………August 26, 2009 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #663106jphoneMember
“Talking With Members of The Opposite Gender”. I’ll leave it to the lofty Rabbinical figures that frequent the YWN CR to answer this Shaila.
With that said, how do we know that “Joseph” is a male and “Tzippi” a female? Perhaps FlatbushBubby is a 22 year old bachur and Semgirl a kollel yungerman?
How do we know that Joseph, Tzippi, Moderator 80 and Mepal are not the same person? Perhaps I am Tzippi?August 26, 2009 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #663107
Exactly, jphone. And I could clearly be lying every time I state I’m a miss.August 26, 2009 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #663108
Oh no, mepal, you or something about you is definitely ‘amiss’ 😉August 26, 2009 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #663109
Someone please explain to me why it is felt (every time mussar is handed out in the CR) that we need to decide for EVERYONE ELSE…
Why can’t we take a piece of mussar FOR OURSELVES and apply accordingly?
Hashem is not asking any of us to make cheshboinis for the whole world- just for ourselves. So please absorb what you feel is applicable to YOU and please stop trying to figure out if this will work out with or affect the CR.
I apologize for my droshos today- I seem to be on a roll. You can just skip right over my posts if you’d like 🙂August 26, 2009 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #663110
thanks areivim.August 26, 2009 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #663111
Squeak, why you surprised? Its fairly easy lieing online, dont you think?August 26, 2009 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #663112
Areivim; Thanx for checking them out, I really appreciate it since here in Asia I have nothing but the basic few S’forim with me. As for kicking anyone out, you are correct, I havn’t said to kick anyone out, just that people we should refrain from directly addressing someone identified as being from the opposite gender! & as I said in the General 2 days ago, I’m writing this also as a reminder to myself. For everyone else out there that wants to know how we who is what, we don’t, but if someone identifies themselves as such, anyone from the opposite gender should not address that person directly. Also the issue was not a Hechsher but rather a P’sak if it’s Muttor or Osur to to speak with the other gender S’tam Divrei Hevel, & let’s not forget the question from before, are we allowed to shake hands? (btw, I’m probably older then most here & have been traveling for a long time, I am “very” respected all over, for not shaking hands, & for never Shmoozing with someone from the other gender or looking @ them directly). As for the reason I write the way I do, other then the one mentioned, is 1) to keep it short & to the point. 2) Not to leave room for saying I misquoted. 3) Most important of all, not to say things that I should not. 4) To try my best not to make it sound personal. Again Please do not assume that I am fanatic, on my 1st posts in the CR, in the, What to when parents don’t want a Shidduch, I sound just the opposite, here from the ultra right & there from the left, but the Toirah is Nitzchis, given by Hashem, & he asks us to be K’doishim “K’doishim Tih’u Ki Kodoish Ani Hashem M’kadishchem, & he also asked us to do only good & accept every Yid no matter what. btw, This is also on the rules outside the door to my house, & anyone that judges others is not welcome, Therefor at any given time it’s full of all differant types, Chassidish, Litvish, Y’shivish, Modern, Ashk’nazi, S’fardi, Teimoni.August 26, 2009 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #663113GoldieLoxxMember
u say ur in asia
but u signed up 1 day ago and you said your location is montebello ny
ill assume u ment monicello ny
why r u now lying to us that ur in asia???
u think youll impress us?????August 26, 2009 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #663114
I need to correct your misconception- I did not actually look up the mekoros inside- I meant that I took a minute to read your entire post and appreciate you taking the time to point them out in 1 organized place…
You do not need to excuse your views to the CR numerous times. Each person is entitled to how they see and do things.August 26, 2009 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #663115
ames, behave. 😉August 26, 2009 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #663116
oh please, how rediculous does this get
His main location is NY- perhaps he happens to be in Asia now?August 26, 2009 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #663117GoldieLoxxMember
main location monticello?? r u mental??
and ayc has only been with us for a day click on the link under his name to see 4 urself
something is fishy here
maybe we should take thiis over 2 espianage in the cr and jax should take it from hereAugust 26, 2009 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #663118
For your information, every single living human being is (hopefully) mental
and to clarify for you: when you sign up, do you put down your vacation spot, or your permanent location. Think about it pleaseAugust 26, 2009 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #663119
Areivimzehlazeh; Thanx again for your input, You are correct. & btw to anyone wondering, there is a Montebello NY.August 26, 2009 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #663121
Areivimzehlazeh; maybe you should put up a map of the US & a time chart of the world up, & them all the questions will be answered.August 26, 2009 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #663123August 26, 2009 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #663124
Your mekoros are meaningless. Do any of them mention writing electronic characters that are then moderated and edited, then placed on a server and become visible to people who have no idea who the person is who started the process, and who are unable to see him, know his gender, hear his voice, what his face looks like and have no idea how to otherwise contact him or her. Do we require rechokos between these electronic characters?
YOU HAVE NO IDEA. Your arguments are all meaningless without the opinion of a Talmid Chochom. There is no parallel to this situation in any of your mekoros. There is NO PSAK on this question in any of your Mekoros.
You want us to all abandon and shut down this website on YOUR logic and interpretation?
WHO ARE YOU?
I don’t know you. You may even not be a Jew. Maybe you are a Xian “scholar” who studies “Jewish Law” in the University.
Perhaps you are an enemy of the Jewish people and have your own nefarious reasons for wishing to damage a frum website. Who are you? Who am I? Who knows?August 26, 2009 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #663125
IMHO- the following is a pitiful argument to the stark truth:
“Do any of them mention writing electronic characters that are then moderated and edited, then placed on a server and become visible to people who have no idea who the person is….”August 26, 2009 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #663126
areivim – now you’re doing the EDITED shtick?
Mental 😉August 26, 2009 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #663127
mod-80; Please no need to all work up or personal. Obviously, you are correct, but being a Yid or not is irrelevant, as is if I am a Amcho Yid, a Talmud Chochom, a Dayan, or a Rov, what counts is what a “person” says, I only brought down things that are included in Harcheik Min Hachiur Umin “Hadoimeh” Loi. Also none of G’morois, Midroshim, Poiskim, were speaking about Blogs as there was no such a thing, but notice that I only brought down things that specificaly refer to the Inyon of K’dushoh V’taharoh by K’lal Yisroel, Its Isurim otherwise, Its S’char if Yes. And Please read through “everything that I have written anywhere on a any post & you will see that I never impleid to close anything down, only to keep our distances between the genders.
To tell you the truth, I haven’t the patience to read through your entire posts. You seem like a fine Yid, I think I’ll just stay out of this…80August 26, 2009 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #663128
I AM INNOCENT!
That post was really edited- and of course it was part A (deleted) that was the crux of the matter at hand…August 26, 2009 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #663129AnonymousInactive
.August 26, 2009 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #663130
It really doesn’t matter WHO is bringing the sources to our attention… they are sources nonethelessAugust 26, 2009 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #663131
80, watch the blood pressure or I’ll have to send some coffee.
About the topic: I am of the school of not being a Jew for someone else, If someone doesn’t feel this forum is right for them, then don’t post. Everyone knows themselves best, and it’s not fair to have something shut down based on what one person thinks is right for him.August 26, 2009 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #663132
I will need blood pressure pills soon
NOBODY ASKED TO SHUT ANYTHING DOWN
thank you- it is now safe to open your ears againAugust 26, 2009 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #663133
It’s leading up to that… and that was just a reflection of the rest of the post, but not that point.August 26, 2009 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #663134
Sorry, there was one thing that was mentiond clearly, That it is not not allowed to greet someone from the other gender even through a Sh’liach & even through her husband, and that was inserted not just due to speaking to someone of the opposite gender, but more so in reply to a “P’sak” renderd here by one of the mods ( I’ll leave that annonymous) that you are allowed, hence my response, although originally I didn’t want to bring M’koirois for anything, & just asked him where he gets that from. “Again can everyone just get beyond this shutting down thing? I never said it, only to refrain from conversing directly with someone from the opposite gender S’tam Divrei Hevel”August 26, 2009 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #663135
Well, I’m of the opinion that if Nobody asked for it we should probably do it.August 27, 2009 12:45 am at 12:45 am #663136tzippiMember
Jphone is NOT Tzippi.
OTOH, I may just be Jphone.October 18, 2009 12:52 pm at 12:52 pm #663137komaMember
To be melitz yosher: Granted that some aliases are clearly identifiable and often in some threads the subject matter and nuances of writing clearly identify the gender, there is still a valid tachlis here. 1) a mussar from an unexpected source or angle can be a powerful mussar. If a posters opinion gets its socks knocked of by an eshes chayil with some bina yesera, it might open some avenues of thought that he wouldn’t have seen. We learn the finer details of tefilah from a woman, of a different dor, and perhaps a woman of the level of nevua, but a woman nonetheless. Conversely, the Shunamis was not averse to taking her case directly to Elisha, and she seems to have handled the very interesting character of Gechazi without problem.
2) Many topics distill into dicussions of Halacha, or Hashkofa. For the inadequately educated, or misguided, it can be a learning experience. For a poster who is zoche to post emes la’amiso, it can qualify as talmud torah berabim. If someone picks up an idea that is new, threatening, or questionable, this does not have to be a dead end. It can be discussed with spouse/chavrusa/ advisor/ rov.
3) there are posters that are M.O.ish, undefinables like myself, and all manner of folks from Lakewood to Karnei Shomron. In anonymous curious way, the forum promotes achdus. Hodesh TovOctober 18, 2009 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #663139haifagirlParticipant
And on the subject of handshakes:
A (female) friend of mine applied for a job. She had an interview with the (frum, female) owner of the business, who apparently liked her a lot. She took my friend to the office of the (non-Jewish, male) head of one of the departments. He extended his hand. At that point my friend had a split-second to make a decision. She could possibly offend the department head by not shaking his hand, or possibly offend the business owner by shaking the man’s hand. She chose not to shake his hand. He was offended. My friend did not get the job.October 18, 2009 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #663140
haifa: She got more schaar upstairs then she could have ever earned downstairs.October 18, 2009 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #663141haifagirlParticipant
I’m not going to direct this to Joseph, since I presume he’s a man, but she was already feeling like the frum community didn’t accept her, and that incident didn’t help. She’s no longer shomer Shabbos and is living with her non-Jewish boyfriend.October 18, 2009 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #663142mybatMember
Really haifa? Wow! It happens a lot to my husband but its usually with people who work with/for him so if he’ll be seeing them a lot he will explain it to them and they won’t get offended. If its with someone he’ll only see once he will sneeze or cough. If he will have to receive an award or something and the emcees are expecting to shake his hand in front of a lot of people he will send someone else up in his place.October 18, 2009 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #663143
If someone asked to call them on Shabbos and telling them sorry I can’t do that would embarrass them for asking, should one be mechalel shabbos to prevent their embarrassment? Or if someone offered non-kosher food and refusing would embarrass them, would one eat treif?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.