Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors
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March 22, 2026 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #2527819rescueParticipant
I think in some form who would protect Israel if not the zionists lol like you think you’d be able to live and learn in Israel without an army. Slow much
March 23, 2026 10:41 am at 10:41 am #2528252SQUARE_ROOTParticipantfrom from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 547:During the 1991 [CE] Gulf War, Rabbi [Moshe] Sherer
spoke on the phone to [Mr. Yisrael] Katsover
[a longtime military reporter] almost every day:“He [Rabbi Moshe Sherer] didn’t sleep.
Every missile that fell [on Israel] was a cut in his own skin.”PERSONAL COMMENT:
At that time, Israel was a Secular Zionist state with
a Secular Zionist majority and Secular Zionist leaders!Yet Rabbi Moshe Sherer ZTL ZYA considered an attack
against Israel to be like a wound on his own body!March 24, 2026 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #2529104user176ParticipantCan we please get a clear definition of what Zionism is from everyone who has an opinion either way. Not asking what you think about it. Not looking for a history lesson. Just this: when you speak about Zionism, what exactly are you referring to. I feel we can find a lot more overlap if we define clearly what we’re talking about…
March 25, 2026 9:55 am at 9:55 am #2529457somejewiknow@gmail.comParticipantone i’ve copied from another resource:
What is Zionism
Zionism is a secular anti-Judaism movement started in the 19th century to disconnect the Jewish community from religious Judaism and replace it with a secular new identity, called the “”Hebrew”” or “”Israeli””. Core to Zionism is the belief in “”self-determination”” vs the Jewish belief in “”divine determination”” where the success and safety of Jews is directly linked to our adherence to the Torah and keeping the mitzvos.
Practically, zionism today means the state of Israel has a right to exist, which is counter to the Torah which says that Jews do not have the right to have their own state (in any form) as there is a divine decree that we live as citizens amongst the non-Jewish nations.
tldr
Zionism means the State of Israel has a right to exist and that Jews have a right to self determination.
There are simpler, and even more to the point definitions, but they are only accessible if you have already accepted and learnt only Torah sources and rejected zionism.
March 26, 2026 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #2530713SQUARE_ROOTParticipantRabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky ZTL ZYA
said this about the modern State of Israel:The State of Israel was one example he gave of
the need to replace kana’us with a more balanced view.On the one hand, he fully endorsed a letter issued
by Rabbi Elazar Schach on the eve of Agudath Israel
entering the governing coalition in Israel in 1977 [CE],
which called upon the religious community
not to be carried away by enthusiasm for a state
founded as a secular state, whose laws are secular laws,
and whose leadership is secular.He had himself frequently warned those leaving for Israel,
“Don’t lose your head at the sight of a Jewish army.”At the same time, he [Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky]
disagreed with the view of the Satmar Rebbe
that the miraculous Israeli victory in 1967 [CE]
was the work of the sitra achra (satanic forces):[Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky said:]
“I deny that miracles can emanate from a destructive satanical force.
Miracles of such magnitude can only be performed by a force for good.”__________________________________________
from from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 547:In a fascinating letter to Rabbi Menachem Porush,
written half a year after Israel’s dramatic victory
in the Six-Day War [in year 1967 CE], Rabbi Sherer
agreed “that what transpired were great miracles.”PERSONAL COMMENT:
This short quote proves that Rabbi Moshe Sherer
disagreed with those who said that Israel’s dramatic victory
in the Six-Day War resulted from the sitra achra (satanic forces)
[for example: the Satmar Rebbe].Rabbi Menachem Porush was a member of Knesset for Agudath Israel
between 1959 and 1975 CE, and again from 1977 until 1994 CE.
The Jewish Press published Rabbi Porush’s articles hundreds of times.March 29, 2026 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #2531466ThinkingCapParticipantIt appears to me that so many of you anti-zionist Jews live in your insular communities with your heads in the sand and have no idea as to what is actually going on in the Jewish world and the part Hashem has chosen the renewed Jewish state in Eretz Yisrael to play in His grand plan that will soon lead to the full redemption bez”H. It appears to me that you thrive off of a negative energy based on hatred, contempt and disgust – middos that not only prevent you from having even a minimum decency of harkaras ha’tov toward those fighting and dying for the survival of the Jewish people in Eretz Yisrael – including the survival of your own communities, but also pushes away practically every Jew who is not like you. It appears to me that your black and white world is so shallow that you have nothing really to offer the Jewish people other than your own Torah study, mitzvah performance, acts of kindness (mostly only with those whom you deem fit to receive your kindnesses) and the perpetuation of your insular communities. Certainly you should keep serving Hashem, and if you are unable to stretch your souls and see past the ways you were taught, then continue serving Him that way, but do me and the rest of the Jewish world who puts up with you and your disgusting attitudes to your fellow Jews who are not like you a favor and close your mouths from spewing the terrible poison you have become so accustomed to spew.
March 31, 2026 11:04 am at 11:04 am #2531833somejewiknow@gmail.comParticipantYou’re a fool and on the wrong website. This is a website for Jews who practice Judaism. I would recommend you proselytize your religion to non-Jews, the same non-Jews that created your zionist religion.
The basics of being G-d fearing Jews is:
– we desire to live in our insular communities with our heads in the Torah
– we choose better to have no idea as to what is going on in the secular world, rather our concern is exclusively Torah, mitzvos, and the group of people the Torah calls “amecha”
– the zionist state called “Israel” is not “Jewish” in any way more than other states like perhaps Lebanon or New York.
– the zionists (the religious ones) have been specifically identified by our Torah leaders, such as Chazon Ish, Brisker Ruv, Chofetz Chaim, Minkatcher Rebbe, Belzer Rebbe, and Satamr Rebbe as being Amulek (like their Nazi counterparts)
– The zionist state will certainly play a role in bringing moshiach in exactly the same way the Nazi death camps helped to bring moshiach
– We love Torah and Mitvos, tzaddikim and simple erliche Jews.
– We hate kofrim, apikorsim, amulekim, and the erev rav, as the Torah demands we hate those who hate Hashem (like the Dati Leumi rebels who are kofer in ikkarei eminah)
– There is nothing good in the violent wars and rivers of blood caused by zionist soldiers of whom we daven for their destruction three times a day in shmoneh esrai.
– The “good” Zionist soldiers do in “protecting” Jews is just like the good Nazi soldiers did when they rationed food to the Jewish slaves in the death camps. It would be better they never got involved. It would be better they dismantle their death camp call the “zionist state”.
– we have nothing to offer the Jewish people other than our own Torah study, mitzvah performance, acts of kindness (mostly only with those whom the Torah deems fit to receive our kindnesses) and the perpetuation of our insular communities.
– We will certainly keep serving Hashem
– We will not see past the ways taught by the Torah
– We will not do you zionists any favors as you are not part of the Jewish nation
– Our Torah is not disgusting to Jews
– Our Torah is poison to reshoyim and life to tzadikim.March 31, 2026 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #2532444SQUARE_ROOTParticipantfrom from the ArtScroll History Series biography
of Rabbi Moshe Sherer, chapter 22, page 547:“Such a committee of investigation would have served
as a ploy to unseat Prime Minister Menachem Begin,
for whom both the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah
of America and that of Eretz Yisrael had great respect.”__________________________________________
PERSONAL COMMENT:This short quote proves that the Gedolim had
“great respect” for Israel’s Prime Minister: Mr. Menachem Begin,
even though Menachem Begin was the leader of a Secular Zionist state!NOTE: Mr. Menachem Begin was Prime Minister of Israel from June 1977 to October 1983.
March 31, 2026 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #2532445ThinkingCapParticipant@somejewiknow@gmail.com
Like I said, you have become accustomed to spew hatred and poison. This is what you know and this is what you do. You brand anyone unlike you as not a member of the Jewish people. Hashem doesn’t like that. He loves all of His children without exception, even those who currently are unobservant, and waits and desires their return to Him. He also wants His children to love one another, not hate! With all you may know, you miss the main point. How dare you speak so evily about our Jewish brethren, G-d’s precious children!
April 1, 2026 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #2532560rescueParticipantSomejew I know
Let’s speak facts
Please share actual biblical references that show your extreme unhinged and completely delusional thinking is correct. From now on you will have to show actual Torah references from the actual text that prove your points cuz so far everything you spew is so delusional not sure how you servived this long on earth without getting hit in the face.
Let’s talk facts from now on. Ok?April 1, 2026 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #2532581somejewiknow@gmail.comParticipantI’m sorry, I stand firmly and exclusively on the teachings of Torah as accepted by classic Judaism and its leaders in each generation. I do not claim to stand on any insights or novelties of my own or anyone else, only the Torah that we Jews received at Sinai and has been accessible to every generation since.
The Torah is not hatred or poison except to those that Hashem hates and those that hate Hashem (like the Dati Leumi heretics and the Reform heretics).
The Torah itself teaches this, and without hesitation or ambiguity.
We are obligated to love Am Yisroel and Hate apikorsim. If you love those you are obligated to hate you detract from the love (if not outright hate!) those whom you are obligated to love. Those fools who love the chilonim and call them, chalila, “Hashem Children” – against the teachings of the Torah – are replacing Ahavas Yisroel with Sinas Chinam. It is sinah of the Torah and the Holy Nation as well is it (ironically) a great disservice to those chilonim who might one day do tshiva.
That being said, I may be wrong in either my understanding or recounting of those teachings and am certainly willing to both share my mekoros and look at someone else’s (as long as they are mainstream undisputed sources). If I am wrong, as I have been before, I would certainly admit it.
So, go ahead. Show me where in the Gemureh or Rambam, Shilchan Urich or Pnai Yeshiya, where it says something different than anything I have written.
April 5, 2026 12:25 am at 12:25 am #2532815chiefshmerelParticipantSomeJew: “..am certainly willing to both share my mekoros and look at someone else’s (as long as they are mainstream undisputed sources).”
One paragraph later: “So, go ahead. Show me where in the Gemureh or Rambam, Shilchan Urich or Pnai Yeshiya..”
You think Rambam is undisputed? Which planet are you from? Jews burning Rambam’s seforim doesn’t seem like “undisputed”. Not to mention Maimonidean rationalism to an extent that few believe today. In that the yetzer hara is psychological/emotional and not metaphysical. Which leaves no room for “Israel exists because of the Sitra Achra”.
You want to address Gemara? Then choose between Bais Shammai and Bais Hillel and acknowledge that you’re repeating the fight, just less pleasantly. And that you and your crowd are closer to the Essenes than any other faction in the Mishnaic/Talmudic periods. It will be simpler for everyone and more honest to yourself.April 5, 2026 12:25 am at 12:25 am #2532878ThinkingCapParticipanti have read a number of the posts in this thread. Many bring proofs against your premise from sefarim and Tzaddikim but you either ignore or discredit them and often insult the one responding. That type of behavior shows that you are simply a closed minded individual with an agenda you feel compelled to push. Like I said, above, you have become so accustomed to spewing hatred and poison that in your tunnel vision you probably don’t even realize the damage you cause and in your arrogance don’t even care. You are a fanatic who does not draw Jews close to their Father in heaven but pushes them away, You would do yourself a great favor if you recognized that you have connected yourself to an energy filled with hate and poison, a twisted version of Torah that does not reflect its ways of “pleasantness” and its paths of “peace”, for recognition of the illness is the first step in healung. Until then, do us all a favor and just shut your mouth from spewing the hatred and poison you have become so accustomed to spew.
April 6, 2026 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2533162RightJewParticipantTHE GREAT SATMAR/N.K. THREE OATH STRAW MEN
The “three oaths” are Satmar/N.K. straw men designed to divert attention from real halachic issues:
1. The “three oaths” are aggadata, not halacha. They have been morphed into false “halacha” in order to nullify a number of Torah mitzvos such as taking possession of the land
“וְהוֹרַשְׁתֶּ֥ם אֶת־הָאָ֖רֶץ וִֽישַׁבְתֶּם־בָּ֑הּ כִּ֥י לָכֶ֛ם נָתַ֥תִּי אֶת־הָאָ֖רֶץ לָרֶ֥שֶׁת אֹתָֽהּ׃
(BaMidbar 33:53).
2. The “three oaths” cannot be “halacha” if they violate the real halacha in Shulchan Aruch, IE Even HaEzer 75 that allows any Jew to make aliyah and to force their spouse to make aliyah.
3. The “three oaths” state nothing about prohibiting creation of a Jewish state before the Moshiach.
4. The “three oaths” were never violated by the Jews as the UN General Assembly in 1947 voted by a majority vote to allow creation of a Jewish state.
5. President Trump placed the US Embassy in Jerusalem, thus formally recognizing the legality of the Jewish state and demolishing the invented “halachos” of Satmar/NK.
6. Satmar & N.K., by refusing to recognize Israel while supporting Iran, are blatant public violators of “the three oaths” that prohibit rebellion against the nations!
7. “Three oath” mystical “halacha” and the return of millions of Jews to E.Y. forces Satmar to invoke pagan polytheistic theologies that the Satan allegedly controls the world.April 7, 2026 10:18 am at 10:18 am #2533518rescueParticipantSomjewiknow. Where does it say you are obligated to live am yisroel and hate apikorsim. Show me a pasuk. Cuz it sounds more like sheeple speak or 7 year old mentality. Show us actual evidence of what you spew so we can er, maybe help you humanize your ridiculous sheep mentality
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