August 28, 2023 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #2220660
לקו״ש שמות כ״ו The Rebbe said that Moshe Rabbeinus neshama must be alive in the body of the Moshe Shebador (Moshe Lo mes).
Oh but the Rebbe is the Moshe Rabbeinu?
I asked why can’t there be a new Moshe?
Answer: because our mission for this generation is to bring Moshiach, so we haven’t finished our mission hence no new leader.
Ok. Wait how does that make sense if gimmel Tammuz happened?
A: no one knows for sure, (because we’re not The Rebbe) but we looked to Torah sources in the topic, (amazingly all discussed in The Rebbes sichos- (YB comes in it’s part of the conspiracy insinuation- right whatever), and here’s what we’ve got:
A) people who decided The Rebbes word overrides what we think might have happened gimmel Tammuz (I guess tzfatis etc) after all who do you believe- optical illusions or The Rebbe?
B) people who believe what the world says and say We don’t understand how what The Rebbe said makes sense
C) middle ground- The Rebbe is alive in the Ohel.
We don’t know who’s right and that’s ok. Just possibilities.
Sources: Rabbeinu Hakadosh made kiddush for his family (obviously in a real body or he couldn’t be yotze them) after his passing
Rabbeinu bachya- a tzadik has a guf gas (material body) and guf dak (which isn’t limited to being in one place at a time) there’s a well known story like this about the Baal Shem Tov as well as the Rebbe Rashab (I have heard the Rebbe too with the Baba Sali but would like to confirm myself which isn’t happening any time soon)
Yakov Avinu- opened his eyes and smiled (after the blood was drained and he was entombed etc) when Esavs head rolled off. (This shows a tzadik can be alive even if his vital signs are gone)
What’s the point of his aliveness? He stays connected to the Chassidim even regarding gashmius concerns- unlike when the tzadik goes to gan Eden.
Just btw, The Rebbe wouldn’t have much to do in Heaven anyway cuz The Rebbe took a public vow that he will not go into gan Eden until Moshiach comes…
I’m starting to think there was a reason for your change in screen name.August 29, 2023 9:08 am at 9:08 am #2220734CholentBeansParticipant
i hear what hes sayingAugust 29, 2023 9:11 am at 9:11 am #2220741SomedayParticipant
@CS I happen to be in no way whatsoever a “meshichist.”
However, what you are saying about that Lubavitcher fellow refusing to abide by the rules of logic, actually, I found that to be a fascinating, and within the reasons of logic, that new position you quoted from him:
“The Rebbe became Moshiach while he was still alive and so it doesn’t contradict Chofetz Chaim and he’ll return to finish the job.”
We have established that Moshiach will not be 100% proven to be, until he “finishes the job” etc…
However, there will certainly be a time of “techilas Mashiach,” when he will have needed supporters who feel the reasonable possibility of him being the one, and will help him on his way to see if H’ let’s him succed. e. g. Rebbe Akiva and Bar Koziba.
Now, first take away all bias (and sorry to say, sinnas chinom.) 2nd, understand Mashiach will certainly be a talmid chacham & tzaddik. However, his place will not be as a Rosh Yeshiva or Poisek Hador. His place will be as described by the Messilas Yesharim Perek 25 (I believe) on Madhiach Tzidkeinu. That certainly sounds to an extant like the Lubavitcher Rebbe z”l.
Given all this, there is some logic to want to support the Heinteger (that’s his name among the 7) Rebbe (Z”L, emphasis applied) in the possibility of his being able to be Mashiach.
Now, as to the source argument that Mashiach will be from the living, and the Rebbe z”l was niftar, you received a logical possible answer, maybe the Rebbe z”l started the job in his lifetime which fulfils that criteria. Fine, not likely, because this would require him to come back to life before Techiyas Hameisim, but possible. There were cases of individual techiyas hameisim by the Tana’im. Do you have a proof positive source against this?
Y. M. S.
LakewoodAugust 29, 2023 9:18 am at 9:18 am #2220757
Which is?August 29, 2023 9:18 am at 9:18 am #2220759
There was a reason for the change- 50 points to the person who guesses it rightAugust 29, 2023 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2220767
So I’m thinking that maybe the Yakov Avinu thing needs some support- (although the Rabbi is a big talmid chochom), because some may class it as agaddata- and hence consider it non literal. But it’s not actually a part of the Gemara- it’s meforshim on the Gemara.
And there’s a Yalkut Shimoni that says the same as well.
Additionally, here’s an interesting analysis by The Rebbe on Yakov Lo Mes.
https://www dot hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=15959&st=&pgnum=236August 29, 2023 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2220886
Someday- I believe your post is directed at qwertyAugust 29, 2023 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2220909
Someday I’ve listed many sources about what you said earlier in the thread. The only point I didn’t follow up on- is that the Lubavitch position (as per the Rebbe) is that Malach will be a leader of the current generation (as he is the one who led them to the finish) so we wouldn’t look for someone from generations past. Yet, The Rebbe referred to his father in law The Frierdiker Rebbe as a candidate for moshiach. There’sa sicha that pieces it together Vayigash lame hey? I think. Including the footnotes. If it’s of interest I’ll be happy to post itAugust 29, 2023 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2220910
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