June 13, 2013 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #609651playtimeMember
Do you believe that?June 14, 2013 12:43 am at 12:43 am #958854proudcanadianMember
uh, yah, i do. but actually, since im not actually american (as u can see from my name), it doesnt really apply to me unless i make a phonecall to the US.June 14, 2013 1:07 am at 1:07 am #958855WIYMember
If it helps them catch terrorists Im all for it.June 14, 2013 1:34 am at 1:34 am #958856writersoulParticipant
They’re going to find out SO much interesting stuff from mine.
I’m, like, TOTALLY scared to death.June 14, 2013 2:02 am at 2:02 am #958857About TimeParticipant
uh, yah, i do. but actually, since im not actually american (as u can see from my name), it doesnt really apply to me unless i make a phonecall to the US.
Another typical gullible canadian
EVERY advanced country is doing the sameJune 14, 2013 2:28 am at 2:28 am #958858charliehallParticipant
Yes, and I’m glad that they will pay me a visit if they notice that I have been making a lot of phone calls to Afghanistan!June 14, 2013 2:31 am at 2:31 am #958859akupermaParticipant
Ha-Shem’s monitoring them as well. Including the actual contents and screens. Now that’s something to worry about.June 14, 2013 2:48 am at 2:48 am #958860sharpMember
Sure. Big Brother is watching… (playtime you can research that)June 14, 2013 3:05 am at 3:05 am #958861
About Time: And how do you know that? Are you some secret service agent that knows everything? Didn’t think so. Stop trying to make points without proof, it gets annoying.June 14, 2013 3:08 am at 3:08 am #958862
akuperma: Agreed.June 14, 2013 3:08 am at 3:08 am #958863
akuperma: Agreed.June 14, 2013 3:23 am at 3:23 am #958864About TimeParticipant
“About Time: And how do you know that? Are you some secret service agent that knows everything? Didn’t think so. Stop trying to make points without proof, it gets annoying.”
Ever heard of FiveEyes
look it upJune 14, 2013 3:55 am at 3:55 am #958865
@Playtime, why wouldn’t you believe it? It’s fact at this point, nobody is debating teh existence of the program, just how far reaching it is and the legality of it. Snowden is not the first insider to point it out, it’ just getting alot more publicity now. @WIY & @Writersoul it’s a big violation of the fourth amendment, which is set up to protect us from a too powerful government and you should be scared of it, even if you think you do nothing wrong, we’re entitled to privacy and the potential for abuse of this system is pretty scary. Also, don’t be so sure that it’s helping to catch terrorists, the NSA has been banned from listening in on mosques since 2011.June 14, 2013 7:28 am at 7:28 am #958866
I dont really care if their doing this. I dont believe their targetting, or have any interest in the stam American. If their targeting terrorists or mass murderers who cares?June 14, 2013 8:31 am at 8:31 am #958867playtimeMember
Also, don’t be so sure that it’s helping to catch terrorists, the NSA has been banned from listening in on mosques since 2011.
“Ahmed, ve shall meet in de mosque wit de pahckahge, hee hee”June 14, 2013 11:27 am at 11:27 am #958868MorahRachMember
I’m so for this. I have nothing to hide. And btw, they aren’t monitorin your calls. They can’t hear the conversation, they can only see what numbers you are calling:receiving calls. And if you on are the Internet, don’t most of you have someone monitoring your Internet searches already ?June 14, 2013 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #958869
@dabeen you may not believe that they are targeting or are interested in the average American, but that’s really just speculation and hopeful thinking, the reality is nobody really knows what they are targeting because it was done very secretly. Why would you take it on faith that the government is purely doing this with your best interest at heart? Look at the news that recently came out about the IRS targeting groups with specific ideologies. Even if they are not using it for anything terrible now and don’t plan to ever abuse it doesn’t change the fact that it is a system that has massive potential to be abused down the road with just a few laws being tweaked, or people with access going outside the law. Think about what would happen ten years down the road if you committed a minor infraction, or followed a belief that the government didn’t like and suddenly they had full access to your emails, phone records etc. for all those years that they could go through and pull anything out of context to make you appear guilty or to embarrass you. Look at history to see what happens when the government has too much power and that’s without the ability to troll through years of the most personal information which our government has recently given itself. Our government is meant to be a public servant not a monarchy. The rights that we’ve had in America are really precious, don’t give them up so easily.June 14, 2013 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #958870ChortkovParticipant
I wouldn’t want anybody I knew monitoring my calls or my internet use, but why should i care if some guy working in a government office is listening in?June 14, 2013 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #958871🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
yekke2- well, what if you say something like “gotta run, my car’s parked by a hydrant”? Everyone breaks some law some time. You might say “I have to be home by 6:00- I have a cleaning woman coming”. They’ll do a check, see they don’t see any legal agency sending someone to your address… Any time they want to arrest anyone they feel like arresting they’ll find something to arrest him for.June 14, 2013 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #958872charliehallParticipant
“It’s fact at this point, nobody is debating teh existence of the program, just how far reaching it is and the legality of it”
Not true. Rand Paul has introduced a bill in the Senate to end the program. HaShem help us if he somehow becomes President.June 14, 2013 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #958873popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Not true. Rand Paul has introduced a bill in the Senate to end the program. HaShem help us if he somehow becomes President.
Charlie: Do you think his statements against the program are substantially different than those of Obama when he was running for president?June 14, 2013 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #958874Oh Shreck!Participant
No one at all sees what I’m writing. <Censored> No, no one at all. <Monitored> I’m sure they have more important things to do. Why do they need to <FBI> probe into my secret dealings with the <CIA> foreign <ZAP>June 14, 2013 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #958875Oh Shreck!Participant
No one at all sees what I’m writing. <Censored> No, no one at all. <Monitored> I’m sure they have more important things to do. Why do they need to <FBI> probe into my secret dealings with the <CIA> foreign <ZAP>June 14, 2013 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #958876
To Don’t Worry. The government makes the argument ,and I think it’s a true one that we must sacrifice a little privacy in order to catch those that would harm us. And if it ever comes to a point that the government wants to catch us for our beliefs I don’t think they’ll need any evidence, look at Soviet Russia. If this program keeps me safe I’m all for it.June 14, 2013 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #958877jewjew123Member
” I dont really care if their doing this. I dont believe their targetting, or have any interest in the stam American. If their targeting terrorists or mass murderers who cares?”
You should care about what the government is doing. You do realize the IRS scandel just happened. The government targeted conservative and tea party groups. Maybe the government isn’t going to do anything to you because you are just sharing a cholent recipe with your friend. However, what is stopping them from targeting conservative groups AGAIN? Stop thinking about how this DIRECTLY affects you, and start realizing that this can easily change your life INDIRECTLY.June 14, 2013 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #958878☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
“It’s fact at this point, nobody is debating teh existence of the program, just how far reaching it is and the legality of it”
Not true. Rand Paul has introduced a bill in the Senate to end the program.
Why would he end a program that doesn’t exist?
Charlie, I think you misunderstood.June 14, 2013 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #958879
@Charliehall I’m not sure I understand your point. What’s not true? The program exists, Rand Paul wouldn’t have introduced a bill to end it if it didn’t exist.June 14, 2013 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #958880
@popa_bar_abba to your point, there is a great video floating around of Obama in 2007 debating current Obama and he completely contradicts everything he claimed to stand for.June 14, 2013 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #958881
@dabeen you’re sacrificing more than a little privacy. You’re basically handing your entire life over to anybody enough security clearance to access the program. They’re pretty much rewriting the Constitution. Did our privacy sacrifice prevent the Boston Marathon bombing? Did the NSA stop 9/11, despite the many red flags? Don’t be so sure that you’re getting the protection that you think you are. The government has so many policies that are completely out of line with protecting the public, for example, not listening in on mosques. Actively advocating to make our borders less secure, they are even considering bringing thousands of Syrian refugees in. Why are you assuming that data mining all of our personal information will only be used for security? Quite a risk to hand your privacy over so casually.June 14, 2013 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #958883jewishfeminist02Member
I have C-SPAN on in the kitchen while I prepare for Shabbos. Representative Alan Grayson just made a really compelling speech pointing out that the NSA’s statements contradict its own website, and that the agency promises things that are impossible (e.g. it says it only monitors the activity of non-citizens, but no one can tell who owns an e-mail address).June 14, 2013 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #958884
@jewjew123 I agree with you completely, that people are getting little too caught up in the idea that they are using the internet for mundane things and not thinking about the larger picture and ignoring the fact that the government just proved they are capable of abusing the system through the IRS scandal. This has such potential for bad. For example, imagine someone accidentally takes a tax deduction on raffle tickets they bought for a tzedakah fundraiser and then they get targeted for an audit. The auditor combs through your email records and see’s that you got a few emails stating that it was an auction and therefore not eligible for the deduction and boom you’re in trouble. Or, you hit a patch of black ice and get into a car accident, the insurance company asks the government for metadata on you and they see that the night before the accident you were on the internet at 3am and took a phone call at 7am, they deny your claim and say that you were exhausted and it was driver error not ice. Or you are denied health coverage for a preexisting condition because you googled the disease and symptoms before applying for insurance. These might be silly examples and certainly won’t happen tomorrow and may never happen, but this data collection can lead to problems big and small.June 14, 2013 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #958885writersoulParticipant
DWBH: I was kidding. Ish.
The government could easily HAVE all of that data- however, if they were to give it to insurance companies, etc. to use, they would get the pants sued off of them. They may have it, but they can’t USE it.
It’s a bit like how people are nervous about the widespread, newly inexpensive ability to scan your genome. people are nervous that if this becomes normal, people with genes for diseases won’t be able to get medical insurance. Except that there’s a law that even if insurance companies know your disease predilections from your genotype, they can’t use it to discriminate against you in insurance costs.June 14, 2013 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #958886
@Writersoul Laws change and they change quickly. What’s reasonable today, can change tomorrow. Anyway suing the pants off any company takes years and is ridiculously expensive. If information is shared improperly, it could take years to sort through. Any law is only as good as the system that’s in place to enforce it. It is already known that the gov’t is sharing data with many companies besides Verizon and striking all kinds of deals to get access to the internal company data. We really don’t have a clue yet how deep the problem is. Bottom line is though that the 4th amendment states “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized” This whole program and what led to it violates the Constitution which was set up with the intent of protecting us from being spied on without cause and that’s exactly what’s happening now. I’m not a criminal, you probably are not one either, so why can they dig through our personal lives without probably cause or a warrant?June 14, 2013 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #958887
To say that the program did not work in other instances is not a reason. Just because sometimes it didn’t work doesn’t mean it hasn’t worked in other cases. The government claims it worked to prevent a subway bombing. And I don’t think my privacy, even if it goes against the constitution is more important then my security. And If the government wants to target certain groups it can do so regardless if they have these programs or not. The IRS program did not say that the conservative groups did anything wrong, it simply singled them out to be audited. I am a republican but just like by Drone strikes I believe some stuff are necessary for security.June 14, 2013 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #958888
@dabeen, you’re right that your (or any individuals) privacy is not more important, but collectively as a people our privacy is, even if that means that we are less secure (which I don’t believe to be true anyway). It seems like you need a refresher in democracy, the IRS is not allowed to target groups for audit or to withhold 501c3’s because of political affiliation. That’s a mega abuse of power and a massive intimidation tactic. Why are you so trusting that the watering down of the constitution isn’t setting a dangerous precedent?June 14, 2013 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #958889
My point only was that the current Internet scandal is not relevant to the IRS one.June 14, 2013 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #958890☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Don’t Worry Be Happy,
Don’t worry. Be Happy.
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