November 19, 2018 8:30 am at 8:30 am #1625921
I don’t mind you trying to see CS’s points and/or help her out, but why, of all places, did you decide to come in at this point and defend that alleged statement? Even in the imaginary case you mentioned, which is completely improbable, why would he have to use the word “snag?”
I could have easily been convinced that the statement was never made. For once, CS could have actually swept something under the rug, given a non-answer like “that story never happened,” and I would have been OK with it. Because, truthfully, I find it a bit dubious that a shliach ever actually made the statement in question. I think all of us are a little more horrified by it being justified than the story itself, which was just hearsay.November 19, 2018 8:52 am at 8:52 am #1625923
CS: “Rso: Imagine a goy came up to you and said do you believe “Atem kruim adam vain haakum korui adam?” Yes or no. That would not be very fair at all. Because what you mean by yes and what he understands by yes is very different.”
Not the same at all. If a goy would start a thread based on what HE believes in, I wouldn’t join it. If a Yid starts a thread that tries to distort what I believe in I would – and do and am – reply to it and try to get things straight.November 19, 2018 8:52 am at 8:52 am #1625928
I will BH be at a close relative’s simchah until early next week, so my reading and posting will probably only be intermittent.
The only reason I’m telling you this is so that you won’t assume shtikah kehoda’ah if I don’t argue with CS 🙂November 19, 2018 8:54 am at 8:54 am #1625926
CS: “in normal situations we ask what the halacha is and don’t rely on how neshama deep it is. But it can definitely add. And in rare cases even be relied upon (such as pinchas, Queen Esther etc)”
1. You are neither of those two tzaddikei olam, and you won’t deny that, so your proof is non-existent.
2. Just as you think it “adds”, reform and conservative also claim it adds. But it doesn’t. It detracts.
Have you ever thought something was right/correct/proper and later discovered to your dismay that it wasn’t? If you have then you have no way of being sure of what resonates with your neshama as opposed to your yetzer hara. And if you haven’t, then you are not human.
Btw just to make it perfectly clear, this is not an argument against lubavich, it is an argument against your personal philosphy. Of course, you may very likely claim that it is lubavich philosophy, in which case it wll be agains lubavich.November 19, 2018 9:50 am at 9:50 am #1625990☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
The original statement was: “it’s better to be a frei yid who holds the rebbe’s moshiach than a snag who’s frum.”
NP said it was justifiable in the following scenario:
Guy 1 – Is Frei (not careful with kashrus, relationships with other gender, ect) but not mechalel Shabbos publicly and not an oved Avoda Zora
Guy 2 – Holds there isn’t going to be ANY Moshiach.
So he made the frei guy frum, and the frum guy frei.
That’s not putting it into context, that’s distorting it beyond recognition.
Nice try, I guess, but no dice.November 19, 2018 10:35 am at 10:35 am #1626020
“Guy 2 – Holds there isn’t going to be ANY Moshiach.”
Hold on. That’s not a snag by anyone’s definition. That’s an apikorus. Of course, in lubavich they may be closely related, but they’re not the same.November 19, 2018 10:36 am at 10:36 am #1626021Uncle BenParticipant
Anybody know why I stopped receiving email notification of follow up replies? I did not select the block notification icon.November 19, 2018 11:36 am at 11:36 am #1626052Sechel HaYasharParticipant
I didn’t attack NP for not attacking you, and I don’t know where you saw something of the sort.
You are the one who believes that this did or feasibly could’ve happened with a Shliach, therefore you must try justify it. Firstly, if something is objectively wrong, no need to justify it. Secondly, you don’t have to believe it happened to then go and give it context and justification. I have no qualms saying that I don’t believe a Shliach said such a thing, and לו יצוייר that it did happen, that Shliach is a nut. Not very hard to call out such words.
I’m not sure where you are going with the “Ahavas Yisrael starts at home” thing, that doesn’t change the *fact* that a Shliach is a representative of the Rebbe, as appointed by Merkos L’Inyonei Chinuch. That’s not debatable, that’s the exact system the Rebbe established, as directed by R Hodakov, and later, by R Kotlarsky. I’m surprised that today’s PC culture of “one can identify as he wishes” seems to have gotten to some Lubavitchers in this context…November 19, 2018 11:40 am at 11:40 am #1626054Non PoliticalParticipant
“but why, of all places, did you decide to come in at this point and defend that alleged statemen
I wasn’t defended that statement chv”sh. The statement as a whole is indefensible because:
1) It claims the Rebbe is Moshiach
2) It addresses a whole segment of Yidden with a derogatory name
I was merely providing the context wherein the part of the statement which appears to be a glaringly irreconcilable stira can be made to shtim.
“That’s not putting it into context, that’s distorting it beyond recognition.”
I prefer to look at it as a slight nip tuck, with professionally applied make up.
“I assume you know that so why are you asking the question”
It wasn’t a questionNovember 19, 2018 11:40 am at 11:40 am #1626068
“The only reason I’m telling you this is so that you won’t assume shtikah kehoda’ah if I don’t argue with CS 🙂”
😂 suppose well miss you. Although does anyone else feel this thread is getting kind of boring and the arguments are becoming mere nitpicking? Or is it just me and APYNovember 19, 2018 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #1626094
OK to ALL:
Yes I was going to condemn that quote as I said, but thinking what it couldve possibly meant as highly unlikely for a shliach to say such a thing etc etc. I was able to come up for myself one context where it could have made sense (and it isn’t the way it sounds.) (not anything I’ve said.) therefore I asked for context as I also hesitate to accuse randomex of outright lying although yes it could have been a broken telephone statement etc.
Btw to all of those of you saying that’s an apikorus but no litvak would say such a thing – a more realistic statement would be along the lines of, I could care less if moshiach comes in 200 years and I don’t give any thought to it at all. As long as I get my schar I’m happy. That would be a more realistic kefira statement for Nps example. But that wasn’t what I was thinking he could have possibly meant either.November 19, 2018 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #1626100☕️coffee addictParticipant
Although does anyone else feel this thread is getting kind of boring and the arguments are becoming mere nitpicking? Or is it just me and APY
No, I realized no ones going to convince you what you believe is wrong and vice versa which is why we are called עם קשי עורף which is a good way to keep us Jewish btwNovember 19, 2018 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1626137
It’s been boring for a long time, but I don’t know that I would call it nit-picky.
I’m kind of bored of the anti-vaxxer stuff too, though. Someone needs to start an interesting thread, otherwise I might be forced to get a real life.November 19, 2018 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1626138apushatayidParticipant
If it was Adar, I might find this “discussion” relevant .November 19, 2018 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm #1626149
One of your previous posts: “One is condidered a tzadik and should be followed, UNLESS, he tells you to worship other gods, or tells you to not observe one of the Mizvos”
Sorry to harp in like this, but I have 2 cassettes on which the Rebbe says that “We don’t have to do Yom Kippur Kattan”, because “Mir hobben shoin oisgeputzt die knepplich”.!! Yom Kippur Kattan that was established by Chacmei Hasha”s, is mentioned in the Talmud, is a Halacha in Shulchan Aruch – including Shulcha Aruch Harav- so how does a contemporary Rav take upon himself to abolish it?November 19, 2018 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #1626196
Its a good question but it’s everywhere not just lubavitch. Unless I’m mistaken and everyone still fasts on YK katan? I’m sure there’s am answer, not sure what it is though. Maybe someone else here would know
Coffee addict: Yeah although I’m not trying to make everyone think their derech is wrong, there are many ways of serving Hashem and am Yisraels diversity is what makes it so wonderful. Likewise with regards to myself.
Nvc 😂November 19, 2018 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #1626197Reb EliezerParticipant
Yom Kippur Katan should be said at least twice a year, Rosh Chodash Elul and Rosh Chodash Nissan.November 19, 2018 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1626210
“I’m not sure where you are going with the “Ahavas Yisrael starts at home” thing, that doesn’t change the *fact* that a Shliach is a representative of the Rebbe, as appointed by Merkos L’Inyonei Chinuch. That’s not debatable, that’s the exact system the Rebbe established, as directed by R Hodakov, and later, by R Kotlarsky. I’m surprised that today’s PC culture of “one can identify as he wishes” seems to have gotten to some Lubavitchers in this context…”
What I mean is its easier to condemn fellow lubavitchers than try to be dan lkaf zechus. I saw a ksav yad of the Rebbe that said that “the yetzer hara saw how much were doing to bring moshiach, so he went and “layed himself on the doorstep” and sought to create machlokes in lubavitch. And r”l he succeeded.”
The expression oirois dtohu bkeilim dtikkun really captures who the Rebbe is and who we should strive to be. The Rebbe on the one hand was so normal – he could relate to everyone on their level (the video of the missionary who tried to missionize to the Rebbe by dollars, and how the Rebbe responded really brings this point home, as well as many others.) On the other hand, the Rebbe was a crazy revolutionary and said crazy things (in a context that somewhat normalised it.)
So of course you’ll have some chassidim who will tend more to the normal side and some who will tend towards the more revolutionary crazy side. I think in general the most important thing is to support each other, even if we don’t live with a certain statement, as long as we see a place for it to somehow be justified. We gotta stick together. Our post gimmel tammuz generation has done better than our parents in this regard I would think. May it continue!November 19, 2018 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1626216Non PoliticalParticipant
“Like we said it’s not necessarily a list of must have but common pointers we see by those Torah leaders / tzaddikim”
I wrote that you are right that the list of 3 criteria wasn’t meant as a check list in that you need “all of the above” and davka these 3. !!However!! what they have in common is –
>>> they are an objective expressions of the seriousness with which other Rabbonim take his Torah. <<<
That common denominator is not negotiableNovember 19, 2018 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1626218
It is one thing not to say Yom Kippur Kattan, whether laziness, inconvenient, or just plain negligence, but it is a different pot of soup when you say that it is NOT NECESSARY to say it, because we are CLEAN OF AVEIROS! If we are so clean, WHY is Moshiach not here yet? This borders on “Megale panim b’Torah…”
We don’t say Tachnun either on many days that are NOT mentioned in Shulchan Aruch just b/c we don’t feel like it, but we are NOT MEVATEL A HALACHA PESUKA!November 19, 2018 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #1626238TomimTihyehParticipant
Shlucha = “Btw to all of those of you saying that’s an apikorus but no litvak would say such a thing – a more realistic statement would be along the lines of, I could care less if moshiach comes in 200 years and I don’t give any thought to it at all. As long as I get my schar I’m happy. That would be a more realistic kefira statement ”
Careful – you dont want the snags to know that the Frierdiker Rebbe revealed to us that they think this way! Lol
Anyways with regard to the question above, OF COURSE the Rebbe loved all Jews, including teenagers exploring avoda Zara in India, people angry at G-d, or exploring all types of forbidden things. Oh yeah and also Reis Yesiveis who were noisdu yochad al Hashem veal Meshichoi. Why wouldn’t he love them? Me, as a chossid, I find it more difficult to lo e them, as in the story with Reb Shmuel Munkes. But you cannot judge the Rebbe by his chassidim.November 19, 2018 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #1626243🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Careful – you dont want the snags to know that the Frierdiker Rebbe revealed to us that they think this way! Lol
frankly I am sick of your trash talk. you seem to have some major social issues but have found yourself an outlet. To the extent that the above line is accurate your leaders were sick individuals. Breeding hate seems to be the rule of the day, and claiming to love every jew (except the ones they don’t love) is the smoke and mirrors they hide it behind.
I’m sick to my stomach.November 19, 2018 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1626263
TT that story is justification but not a lchatchila. As
chassidim we should strive to have our behaviour reflect our Rebbe so the Rebbe can say Riu gidulim shegidalti.
I think TT is tois equivalent. Where’s toi gone? They can have fun together.November 19, 2018 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #1626266
>>> they are an objective expressions of the seriousness with which other Rabbonim take his Torah. <<<
AgreedNovember 19, 2018 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #1626269
Again I admit ignorance on the topic but find it hard to believe whole communities don’t say tachanun due to simple laziness. Or not say YK katan monthly for the same reason. There must be more to the story here.November 19, 2018 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #1626268TomimTihyehParticipant
Shlucha: the Langeh Brief is a justification? Of what?November 19, 2018 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #1626270
Me: “Rso: Imagine a goy came up to you and said do you believe “Atem kruim adam vain haakum korui adam?” Yes or no. That would not be very fair at all. Because what you mean by yes and what he understands by yes is very different.”
Rso “Not the same at all. If a goy would start a thread based on what HE believes in, I wouldn’t join it. If a Yid starts a thread that tries to distort what I believe in I would – and do and am – reply to it and try to get things straight.”
Na the equivalent to your example would be a fellow lubavitcher misrepresenting lubavitch. And yes me and sechel have objected to when we think we see that.
My example still stands.November 19, 2018 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #1626271
Syag: id have to agree with you on this one. (Except I don’t
know what he’s talking about. My example wasnt based on things I’ve seen in lubavitch texts but things I’ve seen on this forum. And even that is not what the shliach meant if it happened at all.)November 19, 2018 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1626274
“Yom Kippur Kattan that was established by Chacmei Hasha”s, is mentioned in the Talmud”
Can you please give me a source for that?November 19, 2018 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1626275
Or should I say by some posters attitudes on this forum. Don’t bother to approve if it’s better left not. Thanks 🙂November 19, 2018 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #1626281
Me: “in normal situations we ask what the halacha is and don’t rely on how neshama deep it is. But it can definitely add. And in rare cases even be relied upon (such as pinchas, Queen Esther etc)”
Rso “1. You are neither of those two tzaddikei olam, and you won’t deny that, so your proof is non-existent.”
No but since their story is part of Torah there are lessons to be learnt on our level (the Rebbe discusses one with this idea of the essence of the neshama etc.)
“2. Just as you think it “adds”, reform and conservative also claim it adds. But it doesn’t. It detracts.”
I find this ironic, as you said earlier that this is something that historically the Chabad teased the chagas chassidim about. And you are Chagas yourself. Yeah we used to not be into miracles. But with yeridas hadoros, we find today that just talk of the Rebbe’s Torah and Avodas Hashem doesn’t excite people as much as when accompanied by the miracle stories, although past generations of lubavitchers wouldn’t bother to talk about “the miracles rolling about under the table.”November 19, 2018 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #1626379Uncle BenParticipant
Who are Chagas Chasidim?November 19, 2018 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #1626386
CS – In many Chasidic shuls no Tachnun is said if there is a Rebbe’s yarzeit, although, in some shuls the instigator of the yarzeit observance
has to give Tikkun.
People are quite lax about saying extra things, even Yom Kippur Katan in most communities, but to come out and say that we have “oisgepuzt die kneplach”, is mamesh going AGAINST the Shulchan Aruch! One must have “brete pleizces” to say such a thing.November 19, 2018 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #1626391apushatayidParticipant
Chagga chassidim, are they the followers of the Chagga Rebbe, he of the red bekitsha?November 19, 2018 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1626400ToiParticipant
Oh please CS, don’t equate me with this newcomer loonbag. That’s insulting. You may not like my posts, but every single one was on point, even if they made you uncomfortable, and even if I didn’t couch them in politically correct language to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy. But I’m not a nutto like your friend. I already told you, I think you’ve unconsciously done enough to harm your own position, you’ve shown what chabad is all about, and so my posts aren’t really accomplishing any more; you’re just too good at this for your own good. And for some reason Syag and others keep digging, like they’ll find some new info or rationalizations on the subject. Enjoy life down that rabbit hole.November 19, 2018 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #1626409🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
not new info, just maybe some responsibility for what is said and how things are presented. But I don’t have high hopes anymore.November 20, 2018 7:14 am at 7:14 am #1626503
CS: “as you said earlier that this is something that historically the Chabad teased the chagas chassidim about. And you are Chagas yourself”
This is another one of your lubavich slogans. Chabad vs Chagas (for those who have asked, Chagas stands for Chessed, Gevurah, Tifferes, the first three of the middos, as opposed to Chabad, the mochin). Their denigration of “Poilishe” chassidim is so way off the mark that it would be laughable if it didn’t cause so much damage.
Learn our sefarim, listen to what our Rebbe (actually Rebbes, because there are groups other than mine) demands, and you’ll be shocked at how you were brainwashed and your head filled with absolute lies.
There is no more “Poilishe” chassidus nowadays than Chabad with all the Yechi garbage and all the relying on hergesh (one example of many: a lubavicher relative who was present when the minyan started, davened shachris after chatzos because, as he told me, he wasn’t “ready” to daven earliler. I watched him daven late and he davened no differently than he had davened any other day), and no differently than any of the other lubavichers who had davened with the minyan.)
You can call me Chagas or whatever you want, but just now that you are totally brainwashed! Have you ever discussed this with a non-lubavicher Chassidishe Yid, i.e. not some story you heard from the daughter of a rebbe, or the like?November 20, 2018 7:17 am at 7:17 am #1626507
Chagas Rebbeim /,chassidim is the title given to non Chabad chassidim, as they focus more on the darchei hachassidus and the emotions of Emunas tzaddikim ahavas Hashem etc. Hence the term Chagas which stands for chessed gevura tiferes as opposed to Chabad which stands for chochma bina DaasNovember 20, 2018 7:20 am at 7:20 am #1626513
Samthenylic something I do know oisgeputzen di knepplach does not mean we are free of sin. It means on a world wide scale we are ready for the Geula. And more than that in the topic I don’t know. Maybe sechel can ask around in his Yeshiva and get back to you although like I said it’s not purely a lubavitch thing. In the Gras times, people would fast monthly… I never hear of it today. I’ll get back to you if i find out more on the topic.
Btw I learned more last night on the topic of regular people and their struggles vs tzaddikim and their struggles. Corresponding to Yaakov and Yisrael. If that wasn’t as clear before and sounds interesting, I’ll be happy to write it upNovember 20, 2018 7:29 am at 7:29 am #1626522☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
Anybody know why I stopped receiving email notification of follow up replies?
I did not select the block notification icon.
I recently saw a post saying that system is messed up.
(You might have noticed by the lack of links to later pages of some
threads on the main page that this forum doesn’t work perfectly.)November 20, 2018 8:08 am at 8:08 am #1626590
CS and Sechel – Story not made up.
Sorry for the late response – I had no email updates. The Shliach is an Israeli shliach (70 year old sefardi) who was sent by the rebbe personally to a shchuna down south. And he was trying to convince me (and I was bored.) – big yechi kippa, yellow flag, igros etc.
BTW CS and Sechel, do you believe 90% of the igros stories?November 20, 2018 8:40 am at 8:40 am #1626611
Rso I don’t see chagas any more derogatory than Poilish (used to differentiate Chabad from others based on original Location.). In fact I used Chagas after you did earlier in the thread.November 20, 2018 9:03 am at 9:03 am #1626620
Yeshivishrockstar thanks for the response. So you told us more clues about him. How did that come up in the conversation (you say you were bored. OK so what did you say? Did he explain his comment etc)
YR sechel and his circle of friends dont use iggros. I suppose he’ll comment further as to believing them. As for me iggros stories play a big role in my personal life (in addition to talking to my personal Rav, Mashpia etc.) and have been proven right in my decision again and again in a personal basis along with other ways the Rebbe has gotten back to me. That’s a whole different topic though. You want to go there? One of my favourites as my life is currently unfolding although would be hard to share my own stories without giving away too much personal info. I suppose I can try if you’re interested. Obviously as I have my own personal journey with connecting to the Rebbe via the iggros I would tend to believe other iggros stories as well. Fabricated stories tend to fall apart pretty quickly.
Now I’m sure sechel will tell you and I can tell you that there is no need to use the iggros and various chassidim connect to the Rebbe and ask for the Rebbe’s guidance in their Avodas Hashem and charting their life path, in other
ways (such as speaking to a Mashpia and allowing the Rebbe’s guidance to come through them, writing letters to the Ohel and seeing how the situation resolves / in some cases other interesting occurrences with Rebbe videos seen soon afterwards (had some of those as well) etc.) I can also explain why personally I do use them.November 20, 2018 9:04 am at 9:04 am #1626625
Rso I would love to get to know more chassidishe yidden. In seminary I loved visiting meah shearim. I visited various tishen there to get more exposure to their world. I spent shabbos several times by a Satmar family there. I also know Satmar chassidim in williamsburg as well as heimishe yidden. I also taught some chassidishe yidden in high school. Unfortunately the only ones I personally know or have met have been chassidish in name only as far as learning Chassidus or viewing their Rebbe as we do, goes. They were as fascinated by me as I was by them and we definitely had some interesting conversations. But none of the type you assure me is out there if I can just get out of my “brainwashed” self. I’m still open to it of course. I love getting to know all segments of klal Yisrael. Just haven’t found other chassidim yet like those of which you speak who study their own Rebbe’s Chassidus and view their Rebbe like we do ours.November 20, 2018 9:06 am at 9:06 am #1626628
Oh yeah rso I forgot to mention my chassidish classmates and neighbours.November 20, 2018 9:06 am at 9:06 am #1626516
TT: the shmuel munkes story was your justification for your non ahavas yisrael ways but the truth is its not a good one. Because there the Alter Rebbe had just been saved from am almost death sentence and libel which was committed by the misnagdim who all supported it. So we can understand how he couldn’t help himself. Here you find many regular yidden whose “hisnagdus” is mostly due to ignorance (of classic sources on moshiach and Geula, of the Halachos on how to treat a Rebbe etc etc) and most of them are not even misnagdim in any way at all, just fellow frum yidden. So you’re comments are really wrong. Anyhow I think you know what i think by now…
As far as syags comment I should add if I’m saying I agree that I hope you are similarly “sickened to your stomach” when people make such type of comments about all lubavitchers and even our Rebbe. Otherwise it’s just playing partisan in a way I can sympathize with. Somehow I haven’t seem that reaction here at all…November 20, 2018 9:18 am at 9:18 am #1626633
BTW, sechel Hayashar, why the jump to say I made up the story? We all know there are certain elements in Chabad that could have made that statement, even if it’s not mainstream.
The problem is that cuckoo thought has penetrated chabad so much so that no one feels like standing up and saying something about. it. Just one – one clear cut Kol Koreh that the rebbe is not moshiach, and chabad will have been integrated back to the mainstream. But we never get that, we get denials, excuses, accusations, and explanations, and from the nonmeshichist branch statements that “while of course the rebbes dead, it doesn;t mean he’s not moshiach. But we won;t publicise it because its not achdus.”
Even Aga”ch’s Kol Koreh never came out and said clearly “The Rebbe is not Moshiach.” While I’m sure the majority of Aga”ch kol koreh believe that the rebbe is in fact not moshiach, they would never say it, because they would be out of chabad. Just ask Rabbi Yechezkel Sofer and the other so called kofrim (yes that’s what chabd is called a kofer – someone who DOESNT believe th rebbe’s moshiach) why they feel in chabad today.November 20, 2018 9:20 am at 9:20 am #1626637
CS – he was trying to convince me the rebbe’s moshiach, so I asked him some basic questions, like where in the rambam does it say that moshiach will live forever (considering that the rebbe said that the rambam is the final posek in regards to mashiach) and whether if the rebbetzin A”H would be allowed to remarry if she was still alive (or maybe she is still alive??)
In response, he told me, we don’t understand and we just have to have emuna in the rebbe and to learn nunaleph nunbeis sichos.
BTW in regard to the original conversation, I personally feel the Rebbe ztl was a gadol (one of many), not moshaich (obvs), and happen to be a fan of Rabbi yitzchak Ginsberg, I think chabd tho has to make a big cheshbon hanefesh and draw a line in the sand,November 20, 2018 10:01 am at 10:01 am #1626721
“Just one – one clear cut Kol Koreh that the rebbe is not moshiach, and chabad will have been integrated back to the mainstream.”
Right. And that’s exactly why a certain person decided were all kofrim BEFORE gimmel tammuz (for unknown reasons, his own followers were left scratching their heads)… We were never mainstream since the Alter Rebbe and we never will be. Once we start apologise for being different in one way, we will quickly be expected to denounce and apologise for other unique things that set our derech apart. Kind of like classic anti semitism if you think about it. They want Jews to apologise for capitalism and fire Marxism. Lubavitchers should apologise for saying the Rebbe is moshiach before gimmel tammuz and after, for treating our Rebbe with too much respect and for having no respect for Torah. Etc etc. We’re not stupid and we’re not going to apologise. If you don’t understand something we can explain so it won’t be only inside knowledge (ok not everyone is willing to do that). But we’re not going to stop being proud of who we are and always have been.November 20, 2018 10:05 am at 10:05 am #1626694
“YR sechel and his circle of friends dont use iggros.”
I.e. the anti-meshichists… As opposed to your circle: the meshichists.
“Just haven’t found other chassidim yet like those of which you speak who study their own Rebbe’s Chassidus and view their Rebbe like we do ours.”
You never will because you refuse to see it because you’re brainwashed. How is this not getting through to you? You really expect us to believe you met significant amounts of Satmars and none of them learned Divrei Yoel? I might believe that you THINK that, but I don’t believe it’s actually true. As far as “viewing their Rebbe like you do,” yeah… as we’ve said, the rest of the frum velt poskens that the way you view your Rebbe is kefira, so you’ll have trouble finding that. Were you under the impression that all Chassidim believe their Rebbe to be moshiach?
“Here you find many regular yidden whose “hisnagdus” is mostly due to ignorance (of classic sources on moshiach and Geula, of the Halachos on how to treat a Rebbe etc etc)”
Did you think this was a private message to TT that the rest of us couldn’t see? Or did you just think we would be totally fine with your assertion that we’re totally ignorant of the halachah and need Chabad to educate us? Are we on crazy pills or something? The world is not a secular college campus! There are frum people that know stuff. Many of whom might know more than you. Get over it! Stop trying to be mekarev people who don’t need it.
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