November 12, 2018 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #1621583
Oh, and Syag- it %100 true. They used to wake me up on Shabbos afternoon with their screaming.November 12, 2018 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #1621617
You: “How do you know if someone is not normal?” Has reached a spiritual height that is out of your league but precisely because of that can help you in ways the “regular” Rabbanim etc can’t? When you see evidence that…they can sense and see things normal people can’t. They can read thoughts and see straight into ones soul. That’s what u mean by that proof.meaning its proof that the Rebbe is beyond our league.”
Me: “No, even if all of the above would be 100% verifiably true this would prove nothing at all. This is very important. In fact Rav Yaacov Hillel wrote “Faith and Folly” precisely to combat this misconception (among others). He wrote it at the behest of just about all the gedolim Sefardi, Litvish, Chassidish (see haskamos to his sefer).”
You: I don’t understand your point here. Please elaborate.
I’ll be glad to
In a nutshell. You are advancing the following proposition: The Lubavitcher Rebbe (subject) is Unique in his, and subsequent generation in that the following is true specifically and exclusively regarding him
a) He is the Nassi HaDor (predicate)
b) He is the Moshe Rebbeinu of the Generation (predicate)
c) He is a Tzadik as per the Tanya (predicate)
you cite 2 categories of positive evidence as grounds for accepting the above proposition
1) The types of accomplishments you listed above.
a)Has reached a spiritual height that is out of your league but precisely because of that can help you in ways the “regular” Rabbanim etc can’t
b) Can sense and see things normal people can’t.
c) Can read thoughts and see straight into ones soul.
2) That he was regarded as such by many contemporary Gedolim.
My point is that:
The 1st category of evidence is not evidence because even if was 100% verified and accepted as fact it would not be relevant to accepting your proposition. It’s not relevant because:
Step 1 – None of those abilities are unique to a Tzadik (meaning that even non-tzadikim can have them)
Step 2 – Therefore having these abilities does not establish one who possesses them as a Tzadik.
The 2nd category of evidence would in fact be very relevant to accepting your proposition if it in fact existed. But it doesn’t. What does exist is that numerous Gedolim who were contemporaries of the Lubavitcher Rebbe did hold him in very high esteem and regarded him as a Gadol B’Yisroel. This is a matter of record and is undisputable. You have cited many examples of this in previous threads. So, if your proposition would have been “The Lubavitcher Rebbe was a Gadol B’Yisroel” I would agree that the evidence you cited in previous threads is relevant to accepting THAT proposition. But that is not what you are proposing.November 12, 2018 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1621662
Hey everyone I really like all the follow up posts. They’re expressing different views, even strongly dissenting views but in a respectfully worded manner. This makes my night. I’ll respond more tomorrow iyh, to you all in order hopefully (ok with one exception lol but you know already…) anyhow with the situation as it is in eretz Yisrael, can we do something special together? I think this coffee room is very special because we literally have acheinu beis Yisrael in many countries represented on it (do we have sefardim though?) so can we stop with the discussion for a minute and maybe each of us take a yom tehillim divided according to the month for eretz Yisrael? Imagine how powerful that tehillim will be!! I’ll take yom aleph. Anyone game? Or have another idea? Its even on topic – it’ll for sure bring moshiach faster.November 12, 2018 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1621771Torah613TorahParticipant
About chabadshlucha King Solomon said:do not argue with a fool in his foolishness.November 13, 2018 9:33 am at 9:33 am #1621936
Regarding the pesukim: rashi tells us that as soon as a child starts to speak, his father should teach him words of Torah and if not, it’s as if he buried him.
The Rebbe, building on that concept and on chinuch, chose 12 pesukim from Torah, 6 from Torah shebichsav and 6 from Today shebaal peh to teach to say with Jewish children until they know them by heart. The Rebbe chose these 12 specifically because each of them expresses a core value of Yiddishkeit and the Rebbe wanted each child to know it for themselves, and to have basic ideas to give over to other children or adults who ask them what being Jewish is all about.
I live in a frum community where many children come home from local nurseries singing or reciting non Jewish silly nursery rhymes. I don’t hear a big uproar in the frum world about this but it bothers me very much to the point that I have exerted much effort to send my little girl to the lubavitch nursery which is much further because I want her coming home talking about and singing purely Jewish and holy things. I don’t see how it is offensive to say pesukim with children in the same community where it is acceptable to say non Jewish nursery rhymes and songs.November 13, 2018 9:36 am at 9:36 am #1621938
Regarding what you see as problems in lubavitch that result from the Rebbes shittos, the only way to properly discuss that is to analyse the extent of the problems in our community and yours and see which is worse. Since as Daas yochid pointed out that is not ok as it infringes on issurim, I have retracted that mode of addressing it and I would advise you and DY as well to abide by the same halacha I am being expected to abide by.
What we can do is discuss the various shittos and standards themselves and I can do that if you wish, after I finish this sugya clarifying the answers to the questions on why we view the Rebbe as we do.November 13, 2018 9:38 am at 9:38 am #1621989
“More likely!!! What happened to your quote of “im harishonim…”? Are there exceptions? It seems as if you think there may be. If that’s the case you shouldn’t have quoted it as an inviolable rule”
OK I actually did write up a post explaining that once in awhile the may be an individual who is unlike the rest of the generation although the general status of each generation and the standard required to be considered a Torah leader in general declines. But my Internet crashed just as I pressed submit and wasn’t sure if it had gone through. But yeah you’re right.November 13, 2018 9:44 am at 9:44 am #1621953
Coffee addict, laskern
“And Avraham didn’t have nisyonos? So that made h a beinoni (according to your definition)
Is there someone according to your definition of צדיק and if so name one because everyone has נסיונות even משה רבינו”
Coffee addict im glad you clarified your question because I see what I wrote has been misunderstood. Allow me to explain (laskern this answers your question as well.)
Everyone has challenges tzaddikim included. Everyone needs to better themselves, tzaddikim included. In fact, if a tzadik doesn’t work on himself, he can fall and even become a rasha as has happened in history with yochanan kohen gadol.
So what’s the difference between rasha beinoni tzadik (according to Tanyas definition)? What the struggle is about.
Each category is immense and can include many madreigos in itself.
Rasha vra lo- does aveiros and feels no remorse. (Category of rasha which we don’t fall into bh as koshere yidden.)
Rasha vtov lo struggles with his yetzer hara and falls. But he regrets it. Now this is a very broad category of people. Because it includes on the bottom people that do multiple aveiros bmaase every day, and feel bad once in awhile, to the person who sins in his thoughts once a year say, and does teshuva over it, but his teshuva doesn’t prevent him from falling again.
Most yidden fit into this category but the Alter Rebbe advises us to think of ourselves as want to be beinonim, and strive to live as a beinoni moment but moment, to avoid depression or not taking aveiros seriously.
Beinoni: is on the level where even though he struggles with his yetzer hara on aveira matters, but he doesn’t give in and he knows he won’t give in (like a super hot shabbos but you know you won’t turn on the air conditioning.)
All of us can strive to live as a minute by minute beinoni taking each minute and trying to fulfill Hashem’s ratzon theno, even if we may not be holding by the mindset of a beinoni which doesn’t allow him to give into the bad.
Finally, there is the tzadik.
Tzadik: doesn’t struggle with actual aveira matters but
Tzadik vra lo: struggles with how much he tolerates evil – as the toleration shows that there is room for it. The more he increases his love of Hashem, the less he tolerates evil. Until he can reach the pinnacle where he completely evicts his personal yetzer to do evil, has ultimate ahavas Hashem, and zero tolerance for evil. As Dovid hamelech was able to conclude – tachlis sina sineisim.
Now even tzaddikim need to grow. And they are tested as well. But their tests are centered around how much in line they are with ratzon Hashem, and in general their avoda revolves around refining their feelings. Whereas the lower levels revolve around refining practical expressions of the bad within: controlling our thought speech and action. Not the thought that firsts pops into your head, but the decision whether to keep thinking about it.
So we all have the power to control our thought speech and action. Transforming the feelings behind them is not for most of us and the status of tzadik is only for Hashem to choose who gets to have that potential for their avoda, which isn’t the majority.
(Although there are some aspects of tzadik that we are promised to reach if we truly do all within our power.)November 13, 2018 10:31 am at 10:31 am #1622011
“t’s the same reason chabad ‘bochurim’ approach little (chareidi, like very chareidi) kids in the park on shabbos afternoon with the promise of candy, but only after reciting certain peukim.”
This *really*disturbs me, please tell me it isn’t true!
Regarding the pesukim:”
No, not regarding the pesukim (I can’t imagine why you thought that was the issue), regarding the idea that Chabad bachurim are approaching little FRUM kids in a park to say pesukim. AND regarding OFFERRING CANDY TO LITTLE BOYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now do you see the problem? Is offering candy to little boys so mainstream that you thought I was asking about the pesukim?!
Additionally, I would also like to hear a justification for that Chabad house Toi spoke of in a completely chareidi neighborhood, as well as in Lakewood. Approaching frum boys to spread Chabad doctrine is missionizing, offering candy to little boys is just plain wrong.November 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622010
Hi mammele welcome.
“Sorry but there is no official Chasidic standard of wearing all black or shades thereof for women I’m aware of in the US.”
Yes the chassidishe community has become closer to the BY look lately it seems. I went to a wedding in willi 6
years ago, and every single lady was wearing black or navy. More recently I went and there were very nice Aidel colours. That being said, the two communities I was thinking of are both outside the US where I have heard the official standard of one is as described, and another in EY where the women don’t wear makeup.
“And as was mentioned before, the Rebbe did push candle lighting for girls that were not Lubavitch. So I ask, if the world needed more kedusha, which IIRC was the reason given for this, why not increase tznius? Which is what most of the Jewish world has tried, but even they are unfortunately not as successful as they should be. Levels of tznius are lower almost everywhere than just a generation ago. (The only extremes I see are in Lev Tahor…). So I really don’t see which circles you are referring to.”
The Rebbe addressed tznius in many sichos addressed to everyone and especially in sichos/ letters / yichudusin addressed to women/ principals of girl schools etc. As rso noted, our Rabbanim aren’t happy that tznius levels have fallen due to the constant onslaught in society today, and are working hard to take educational measures to help. There are classes on tznius in elementary school, tznius clubs in some high schools, others also have classes, tznius motivational campaigns especially in the summer etc.
The Rebbe’s shitta was too require the highest standards as chassidim. The Rebbes standard is to start dressing fully tznius by three-years old and a day. I do this with my daughter and know many who do. This isn’t the norm even in the chassidishe world, and a lubavitcher friend of mine who asked a store owner in boro park how come they didn’t carry long sleeved shirts and knee covering skirts for three year olds was told “this is a boro park store, not a lubavitch store.”
Of course I’m sure there are others who do so as well but the Rebbe did expect a high standard.
As to why the Rebbe chose the BY look over the chassidish look: the Rebbe felt that ultimate tznius combines and expresses both dignity and beauty for a Jewish woman. All our Imahos were known both for their modesty and beauty. This is important as modesty – ok, we all learn about the kedusha it brings etc especially today when we are combatting the opposite trend, we are much more educated in this respect than in previous generations.
But beauty is also important both because it reflects who the woman is spiritually and her task to bring beauty to the home and Yiddishkeit etc, and also practically, that her husband should find her attractive which is very important as well.
The Rebbe felt that the BY look combined these two aspects best today, and that’s why he asked us to dress like BY. Although lev tahor to quote your example dresses very modestly, it is not considered tznius and even called the opposite of tznius because their odd look actually draws attention which is counter tznius. And the Torah way has been bnos Yisrael yafos hein from the imahos on. Dressing in garbage bags also doesn’t convey the dignity, royalty and honour that true tznius dress does and brings.
“What I find interesting in Crown Heights is to see groups of girls with vastly different ways of dress grouped together. While it’s nice to see everyone being accepted, there’s no way this doesn’t adversely affect the “frummer” ones. I realize this may be part and parcel of the Chabad shitta in kiruv, but I don’t know how relatively young girls can withstand these nisyonos.”
The Rebbe actually discusses in a sicha on this week’s parsha how Reuven knew not to take some of the wheat lying around during harvest season, and only pick hefker dudaim, even though all the rest of the neighbourhood kids did: when a child sees that his home is
different than others (as Yaakov avinus was), even other frum but more wordly homes – for example other mothers aren’t so careful with their tznius, but his mother is extremely careful with hers, other fathers play tricks with their business, but his father is a yoshar and ehrliche yid (the Rebbe’s examples), then the child knows that he is different even if his friends do differently. To the point that if another child or group of children display behaviour not appropriate for his homes standards, he will know these aren’t appropriate friends for him and will go choose others…November 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622028
Ya know, the fact that you try to explain away lubavitch ‘bochurim’ going into other communities and trying to educate other people’s children based on YOUR rebbe’s shittos is not only frightening and appalling (get the heck away from MY kids you creepos) it’s possibly more disconcerting and revealing than anything else in this entire thread. You guys are so brainwashed you can’t even imagine that the greater frum tzibbur has other, more valid mehalchim of chinuch (I mean, just look at all the issues (tznius/drinking) raised above) than what you have to offer. It’s utterly mind boggling. But again, it’s the same reason you tried to open a chabad house/shul in kiryat sefer. You don’t care about making people frum (the event I described above that elicited Syag’s horror occurred on Minchas Yitzchak St. in Jlem, very heimish/chassidish/chareidi), you care about making them lubavitch. So please, no garbage about goyish nursery rhymes or pictures of camels being offensive or other such nonsense, it’s because you want to convert us all. Hashem Yishmor.November 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622035
I reread Cs’s explaining away and can’t get over how consistently illogical it is. I’m honestly floored you could write that reply. can someone please pick it apart; im far too lazy to address each crazy point.November 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622038
Sure I’ll get to that syagNovember 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622041
But just a quick note syag, that is done in EY where its a different culture and bochurim giving kids candy is not seen with the child safety alarm culture in other countries. Afaik this way of doing it is not in America. As far as your other question, I will get to that.November 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622046
CS, as far as I recall (don’t have sefarim handy) the same Rashi that says that the father has to teach his son Torah, and that if he doesn’t it is as if he buries him (c”v) also says that the father should speak to him in Lashon Kodesh.
Just pointing it out and wondering why that wasn’t stressed by your rebbe. Btw not attacking, just wondering why the lack of consistency..November 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622049
CS: “Regarding what you see as problems in lubavitch that result from the Rebbes shittos, the only way to properly discuss that is to analyse the extent of the problems in our community and yours and see which is worse. Since as Daas yochid pointed out that is not ok as it infringes on issurim, I have retracted that mode of addressing it and I would advise you and DY as well to abide by the same halacha I am being expected to abide by.”
1. You are implying that my community suffers from what you hinted to. They definitely do NOT! I know this for a fact and, as you may have noticed, I am a cynic and not someone who just believes what feels good. So your implication is offensive. On the other hand, I DO know a lot of what goes on in Lubavich and the situation is NOT good, to say the least. As we have mentioned, where there is a lack of tznius there is ALWAYS a lack of kedusha R”L.
2. It’s not lashon hara if there is a clear to’eles, and the to’eles I’m aiming for is twofold. First, to show you and your colleagues that you have what to fix up urgently before preaching. Second, to warn others of the situation so that they shouldn’t be blindly caught up by your nice friendly explanations of how fantastic lubavich is. Your chassidus’s lack of tznius is a great danger to everybody who is involved with them, and IMHO it is even more dangerous than a lot of the other stuff I have been protesting..November 13, 2018 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1622055Uncle BenParticipant
Who says the candy in the park and the nursery rhyme incidents are in the same city/neighborhood?November 13, 2018 12:24 pm at 12:24 pm #1622094
Uncle ben, they may not be. But I was saying from a hashkafic point of view, i dont see it to be seen as a problem in my neighbourhood which is litvish and modern chassidish . Regardless even if it’s not the same community, I don’t see how teaching children pesukim by heart is a problem.November 13, 2018 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1622099
“Teaching children p’sukim by heart” may not be a problem by itself, but it doesn’t stop there, and soon enough, those children become Lubavitchers,
which is suspiciously “me’ein” -ianity-like in its view of the Rebbe being Moshiach.
Why does Lubavitch force itself into frum neighborhoods who have their manhigim & minhogim? Remember the Pesach debacle in Williamsburg in ’80 or ’81? Why come to chasidishe shuls in B.P. on Shavuos to preach their “torah”?
Very noble & very nice to bring Yiddishkeit into “barren’ places, but don’t push your doctorine where it is NOT NEEDED!November 13, 2018 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #1622298tfaceBURNParticipant
Hi. Does anyone remember me? I used to be BurnTFACE but forgot my password and can’t even access my old email address so Ive had to change my name to tfaceBURN but I’m the same person as before.
For those who may not remember I was broudht up in a Lubavitcher family, went throught the system and eventually lef after Gimmel Tammuz when I woke up to what Lubavitch really is. I am one of the very few, oerhaps only two or three, who have remained Chassidic and joined other chassidishe groups.
I give myself credit for lasting so long without mixing in but the pressure has been building and I can’t hold back.
sam wrote “Why does Lubavitch force itself into frum neighborhoods who have their manhigim & minhogim?”
Part of what we were taught in Lubavitch was that we are the best by far, and that the other chassidim (aka Poilishe chassidim) have only a shadow of Toras haBaal Shem Tov. Of course, it goes without saying that even they are far better than snags!
Anyhow a major aim of our mashpiim was to get us to go bedarchei noam to other shtiblech and shuls and to make the others realize that our way was the only really good and proper way of serving Hashem. Getting them to accept that the Rebbe is the Nossi Hador and will soon be revealed as Moshiach would certainly hasten the geulah.
To show us how this was not a difficult taks we were told that all chassidim look up to our Rebbe and that all chassidim, even the big groups like Belz and Vihznitz (not Satmar because they aren’t really chassidim as their Rebbe said nistakcha Toras haBaal Shem Tov) refer to their rebbes by their title, e.g. Belzer Rebbe, Vizhnitzer Rebbe, but when they refer to our Rebbe they just say “the Rebbe” because they know that he is way above theirs.
I am embarrassed to admit that I actually believed it until a short while after I joined a different Chassidic group and asking them why it was true. They looked at me as if I was crazy.
So, sam, theres your answer. Its very important to bring the geulah by waking up others and getting them to see the light.November 13, 2018 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #1622426
CS in response to me questioning her as to why the Rashba was only “more likely” greater than her rebbe when she herself quoted “im rishonim kemalachim…”: “once in awhile the may be an individual who is unlike the rest of the generation although the general status of each generation and the standard required to be considered a Torah leader in general declines”
Is there the slightest possibility that you are of the opinion that the lubavicher rebbe might just be someone who is unlike the rest of the generation and that he could therefore, just possibly of course, be greater than anyone of earlier generations?
Seems to me, and I have a great tendency to see things stupidly, you believe the maamar Chazal epplies to everyone except to your rebbe.
Where’s your source for coming up with “exceptions” to this maamar Chazal? Please let me know because maybe I can then use your logic to come up with exceptions to other maamarei Chazal that I don’t feel so happy with.November 13, 2018 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #1622715
CS – why are you trying to bend over backwards to explain yourself to these people? Ah snag is ah snag! We just passed the Yom Tov of Rosh Chodesh Kislev which taught us az der Rebbe Shlita is gezunt, now and always, Melech Hamoshiach chai vekayam! Everybody had the chance to listen and be mekabel, and everyone still has that chance,but now after Gimmel Tammuz, in the helem vehester, the time for darchei noam is past! Those who will stubbornly refuse to accept the obvious reality of Who the Rebbe is, who allow the akrov of krirus to bite them, will remain with their gedaylim – oisoi hoish and the shoifech domim – lecherpos ulederoin oilom! If they truly want to learn they can open the hundreds of volumes of Toras Emes in the Rebbe’s Sichos and Maamorim. And leave behind the kindereshe naarishkeiten they learned in their places. But for a shlucha of the Rebbe to carpenter herself to them? Feh!November 13, 2018 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #1622813
TomimTihyeh, I couldn’t have said it better myself!November 13, 2018 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #1622877
Carpenter – should have said farentfer.November 13, 2018 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #1622889
TomimTihye, given that this is a public forum: translation please?November 13, 2018 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #1622888
Please do society a favor and crawl back into your cave in Tzfas. You’re an embarrassment to Lubavitch, and society at large. I don’t actually think you’re a Tomim, you’re probably a Tzugekumener trying to feel good about yourself.
Also, Carpenter??November 13, 2018 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #1622906
“oisoi hoish and the shoifech domim”
I think I know who you mean by the first one, and it’s not yoshke, but who is the second one? Even I, who pride myself on knowing so much about lubavich can’t figure it out.
Is it BG?November 13, 2018 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #1622915
Goes to show that you’re not actually so familiar with Lubavitch:)
I never heard this person being nicknamed “Shofech Domim” but I got the inference right away.November 13, 2018 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1622922
Lol rso I couldn’t figure out who oisoi hoish is myself till you put it that way.
Sechel good to see you here.
Tomimtihye assuming you’re for real, do you think the Rebbe would want you to speak that way?!? You think ahavas yisrael is only for not yet frum Yidden?!? Isn’t the whole point of Torah diracheha darchei noam?! To quote hayom yom whats the point of all of your chassidishkeit if the ikkar is missing, ahavas yisrael? I think you have allot to think about. To be dan lchaf zechus I’ll attribute your fiery post to the passion of youth. And I am not bending over backwards at all. Do you see me apologising for being a lubavitcher? Anyhow I should welcome burntface and say happy to see you although really I’m sad to see you if that makes sense. I really feel bad for what you must’ve for through and I’m happy you found your derech.
Anyhow this was just a short post but I know I am currently holding by nps post which I will get to tomorrow iyhNovember 13, 2018 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #1622914
RebYid- what do you need translated?
SechelHayashar vi a deifen akumah – ich hob gegessen di kasha fun Tomchei Tmimim und gelernt gruntig vi der Rebbe Rashab n”e hut geheist! And you were still in diapers, if you were even born yet. Ver meinst du az du bist?!November 13, 2018 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1622962
WHO is “shofech Domim”? I am NOT that well versed in innuendos.November 13, 2018 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1622963
Shlucha – with all our ahavas Yisroel we still proudly say the nineteenth brocho which was added in Yavneh! We dont have to hem and haw and be politically correct and say that other kreizen also had tzaddikim and try to imply that they were even close to the level of our Rebbe – we are proud that we have a Rebbe who is the nefesh hakoilel, the Nossi hader, Mepech Hamoshiach Leoilom Voed! The Nesiei Chabad were special neshomois mishichmom ulemaala gevoihim miko ho’om, and bifrat the tzaddik hashvii hu Dovid beatzmoi! All the Chachmomim who want to compare him to this one and to that one, and even to frierdiker doiros, do you not realize that Moshiach is different?! When the Melech Hamoshiach is misgaleh bimeheira beyomeinu, and is the Nossi and the Melech and the Novi, will you also tzi your beards and say but how can he be greater than the Rashbo who was none of those things? Leave aside your kleinkeppelkeit before it’s too late! Yes there were feineh Yidden in other kreizen, and even tzaddikim, but we do not need to be ashamed to say that none of them could rihr un unzer Rebbin Shlita!November 13, 2018 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #1622986
TomimTehuye- You are “off the cliff” nothing can catch you now!November 13, 2018 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #1622993Uncle BenParticipant
Mr. Tomim; I have yet to hear a mekor in the Torah for a designated live individual as Moshiach who thereafter died and is still designated as Moshiach min meisaya.November 13, 2018 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #1623007☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Probably a troll. I wouldn’t take this guy too seriously.
CS, I’m gratified to see your response. I’ll continue to question your hashkafos, but not your sincerity or motivations.November 13, 2018 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #1623010Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
I have to hand it to him. Someone had to kill this thread somehow. This is fine work.November 13, 2018 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1623013
Yes Neville, agreed. Because while it is clear to everyone that he doesn’t really represent Chabad, he does prove the point we’ve been making all along.November 13, 2018 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #1623020
I meant the whole post, except for carpenter, which I understood somehow.November 13, 2018 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #1623019
To Uncle Ben; There is no such mekor ANYWHERE in either Tora Shbiksav or Tora Sheba’al Peh. However, there is in big Kiddush levono oysios, in “Bris Chodosh”. I think they fell off THAT cliff – Ch”v!November 13, 2018 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #1623026
That was pretty much neo christianity.
Oh, and the 19th bracho was enacted against minim ie. the early christians
Maybe the shofech damim he was referring to is a reference is to Titus, who is mentioned in the same gemara as being judged in gehenom ldorei dorot along with oto haish (if you look at the uncensored version)
Guess every group has there “special cases”. I was a bit surprised by CS’s rather mild response, Ahavas Yisroel is the least of his problems.November 13, 2018 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #1623033Out of townerParticipant
Don’t know for sure, but I would assume the Shoifech domim is the one most responsible for Torah in America since WWII. One of the biggest and worst bilbullim that they say (although they try to hide it sometimes) is to blame him for discriminating against their anash during the war. The way they refer to him, even if there was noting else controversial about them, (and there is plenty, see 440 prior posts) would be enough to write their hashkafa right out of the Torah world.November 13, 2018 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #1623046
@ Out Of Towner
I was thinking of the Chazal he was referring to. Thank you for providing the nimshal.
“Goes to show that you’re not actually so familiar with Lubavitch:)
I never heard this person being nicknamed “Shofech Domim” but I got the inference right away”
The fact that you got the inference right away reflects very poorly on the company you keep, far worse than TTs post in fact.November 13, 2018 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #1623053Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
““Goes to show that you’re not actually so familiar with Lubavitch:)
I never heard this person being nicknamed “Shofech Domim” but I got the inference right away”
The fact that you got the inference right away reflects very poorly on the company you keep, far worse than TTs post in fact.”
My thoughts exactly. I still don’t really follow that part of the discussion (maybe it’s good that I don’t). But, from what I can pick up, TT is probably some non-Chabad, extremely well-thought out troll that I could just laugh off. The fact that real Lubavitchers seem to think he’s speaking their language makes me a little more uneasy, which I didn’t think was possible.November 14, 2018 12:03 am at 12:03 am #1623055
Could someone translate Tomim’s post please?November 14, 2018 1:30 am at 1:30 am #1623057
I never heard this person being nicknamed “Shofech Domim” but I got the inference right away
What kind of people are you that you have names like this for gedolim? Whether you yourself use it or not, if you know it, you have heard it or heard some sick rationalization for it. What kind of things do you teach your children and talk about amongst yourselves? I am truly sickened. Each new post has been another awful surprise of things I would never ever have thought about you until you have expressed it yourselves.November 14, 2018 2:01 am at 2:01 am #1623061
To clarify, this particular person whom TT named Shofech Domim isn’t called anything other than his name. The company I keep doesn’t refer to him as such, nor have I ever heard such a thing. But as Out of Towner I presume correctly assumed, if one were to have heard the story told about him that OOT alluded to, you would get the name “Shofech Domim” used by TT.
Again, I have never heard him called that in my life.
Many of you are seriously twisting my words. I understand the reference just like OOT understood it, because he and I have both heard the same story circulated.
Neville, I do think TT is a troll, perhaps an ex Lubavitcher, and a well versed one at the. And even if he did once eat “The Kasheh (buckwheat) of Tomchei Tmimim, doesn’t give him license to Bashmutz the Rebbe like he is doing, regardless of whether he means to or not.
If you really hold your Rebbe in high regard, he doesn’t need to be Moshiach to be your Rebbe. Moshel Lemo Hadovor domeh, a wife who holds her husband in high esteem doesn’t expect of him to be the Posek HaDor, or Warren Buffet. (Whatever her priorities are). A Rebbe doesn’t have to be Moshiach in order to be a true Tzaddik.
TT, apparently your Kasheh in Tomchei Tmimim was spiked:)November 14, 2018 7:55 am at 7:55 am #1623063
TomimTihyeh: ” vi der Rebbe Rashab n”e hut geheist”
I believe there’s a grammatical error in the Yiddish here. Anyone agree with me?
Btw, from one of the other posts I figured out who shofech domim is. But why doesn’t BG (and I don’t mean Ben Gurion) get a mention?November 14, 2018 8:00 am at 8:00 am #1623065
“Because while it is clear to everyone that he doesn’t really represent Chabad, he does prove the point we’ve been making all along.”
He is either a real lubavicher to the right of center who doesn’t believe in keeping what he believes quiet (there are lots of those) or he is someone who knows Lubavich very very well. All his comments and leshonos (aside from the Shofech Domim one) are stuff that I have heard from one person or another. It’s just that he put it all together and posted it.November 14, 2018 8:01 am at 8:01 am #1623089
Yes, my kashe was spiked – with Chassidus, with Emunas Cahchomim, with bittul!November 14, 2018 8:03 am at 8:03 am #1623091
Seichel and Shlucha – you think that if you present yourself as “normal”, and shy away from “uncomfortable” truths, everybody here will like you, and then you can bring them closer to the Rebbe’s truth. You are just forgetting one thing – the Rebbe Maharash – lechatchile aribber! Stand proud and sing chassidei Chabad onu talmidei hoRebbe ashreinu, and fun desvegen verou kol AMEI HOORETZ ki Sheim Haveyeh niekro olecho! Veyoru mimeko! Teikef uMiYa”D MaMo”SH!
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