April 16, 2013 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #946693Torah613TorahParticipant
Got it now 🙂April 17, 2013 1:55 am at 1:55 am #946694
Oom: your statement of equality bothers me.
Does everyone need to be treated equally if it causes an infringement on others rights? Where is the equality on that?
Accepting women into the tzhal is destructive to men? Where are their rights? They dont have an option to get out.April 17, 2013 2:18 am at 2:18 am #946695
gonna quote myself for a minute here:
Hm, I was actually trying to talk about equality in general, using the army only as an example.
We were talking about the concept of equality. The practicality of incorporation does not factor into the concept. And while the religious implications are definitely a sticky wicket in and of themselves, they are still irrelevant to what we were discussing.April 17, 2013 2:24 am at 2:24 am #946696
You make no sense. The question is if equality has a stand if uphoding it infringes on peoples rights. This is a genreal question.April 17, 2013 3:11 am at 3:11 am #946697
(a) Your question was not general. You qualified it in your second sentence in a way that makes your question specific to this case (i.e. women in Tzahal). I can answer your question in a general fashion (see ), but you will find it will not address the question you have in your mind.
(b) Equality does not infringe on anyone’s rights. The expression of the equality (reverse affirmative action, etc.) may infringe. That does not, however, mean that equality does not “have a stand.”April 17, 2013 3:35 am at 3:35 am #946698
A) my question was general. I was just pointing out how it relates here.
B) very clever. Simply put equality that infringes is not equality.April 17, 2013 3:52 am at 3:52 am #946699
No. Simply put, equality that infringes must be rectified to a state where it can be maintained without infringement.April 17, 2013 4:11 am at 4:11 am #946700
Ok. So when you say equality, what exactly are u equalling?April 17, 2013 4:21 am at 4:21 am #946701
Nothing. I am speaking in general terms.April 17, 2013 4:25 am at 4:25 am #946702
Generally if one has less rights than the other there is no equalityApril 17, 2013 4:56 am at 4:56 am #946704
Yes.April 17, 2013 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #946705
Freedom would dictate that part of a persons right of equality and pursuing ones opportunities should be the right to not pursue. In israel where military service is mandatory there is no way to grant “equal rights” as you put it for many reasons other than religion that you refuse to discuss. The whole thing is propaganda.
The proper term to use would be “acceptance” of all genders.
If you want to discuss equal rights in a fair manneryou would need a new threadfor that. It doesnt belong under a thread titled tzhal.April 17, 2013 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #946706
Sorry for typos im typing from mobile device.
Also, hope u enjoy ur sweatshirt i did not mean to ruin it for u. :))April 17, 2013 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #946707swietMember
OneOfMany: Is it your contention that affirmative action (a/k/a reverse discrimination) is a form or iteration of equality? If not, how would you characterize it?April 17, 2013 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #946708writersoulParticipant
I have a Tzahal sweatshirt. I also have a Coca Cola (or rather ???? ????) sweatshirt. Tzahal is a symbol of the State of Israel. Whether it is THE most moral and ethical organization in the world I will never know. (And for those who talked about the army and women, just read even a shtickel about harassment claims and more made against women in the American armed forces and training academies.) But Tzahal is also an organization that has defended the Jewish people (even if you forget for a moment about the Jewish State) for 65 years (yesterday). Its soldiers have, with the help of Hashem, been largely successful up til now, and there are so many soldiers who are moser nefesh every day to keep Jewish people safe.
I’d say that’s why I wear a Tzahal sweatshirt, but it’s really ‘cuz my parents brought it back from Israel for me when I was in ninth grade and it’s my comfiest sweatshirt. But that is how I justify it.April 18, 2013 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #946709
There is no comparison between Tzahal and Coca Cola. While coke is an advertisement looking to sell a product, Tzahal is an organization looking to buy souls.
The existence of Tzahal is best described as a paradox. Yes, they are protecting the Jewish state yet as time goes on they expend much energy on making it less Jewish.
Tzahal has been very successful both in defending Israel and in spreading their zionist propaganda among us.
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