Very Judgemental

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  • #592999
    #709429

    myfriend
    Member

    mikehall12382 –

    You’ve just “judged” the posters of this forum, in violation of your own words.

    #709431

    it’s judgmental not judgemental

    and mold not mould

    just saying

    but i’m not judging you, just saying

    i mean IF you want my opinion, well there it is

    but you certainly don’t have to listen to me

    whatever you feel is right is right with me

    #709432

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    hey!

    re-post:

    blah blah blah

    #709433

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I am very judgmental. But I reserve my judgments for one person.

    The Wolf

    #709434

    not I
    Member

    If people on YW weren’t judgmental it wouldn’t be interesting. besides people enjoy saying firy comments just to hear the response! They may not even believe or feel what they write here!

    #709435

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I am very judgmental and this post is ridiculous.

    #709436

    myfriend
    Member

    Stating a Torah position that prohibits certain activities is not a judgement of those engaging in those prohibited activities.

    It is is enumerating the Torah’s position on those prohibited activities.

    #709437

    aries2756
    Participant

    mike, you are fighting a losing battle, I’ve tried and got the same answers. Before I joined here, I thought this was really a Yeshivish type of blog, better than VIN. But I quickly learned differently. You can’t bash Rabbonim here, but you can judge everyone else and put everyone else down. It is a huge double standard.

    #709438

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Ridiculous. This thread is a flame.

    There is no double standard.

    #709439

    Moq
    Member

    Aries, let’s be honest. You are very capable of passion and anger when we talk about issue that are close to your heart – because YOU CARE. We care too – not only about child molestation, but about tzinius, the role of women in the workplace, and the frumkeit of our children. WE CARE. This “let’s all sing kumbaya” attitude is based on “none of this matters anyway”.

    True, we should not judge people individually – because, maybe they are doing THE WRONG THING because of life circumstance or because of a lack of education or because they genuinely have a different opinion – unless, of course, they are in Kollel – but yes, we have opinions, because these are things that matter.

    Things are right and wrong, and we need to say that, and no, Kumbaya is not more important. And, sometimes we say will that strongly.

    This place is about opinion and discussion. You have the opposite opinions of some the opinions here, so you would prefer if we didn’t care, and instead sang Kumbaya. Would you say this about mathematics? Medicine? Proper health? Financial planning? Kumbayah! WAIT – no, that matters…

    You wouldn’t sing kumbayah about anything you cared about. Guess what. We care.

    Don’t hide your disdain for the way we care about Torah & Frumkiet issues behind achdus. If this were an issue you cared about, you’d express it loudly and clearly, as you just did.

    Achdus means – EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE WRONG – I can still treat you like a human being, still respect you, – but you are wrong. And I will be clear about that. Don’t tell me to sing Kumabayah. Sing Kumbayah about something you care about.

    #709440

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Mike, take it for what it is – satire.

    #709441

    Helpful
    Member

    SJS – I will now view all your posts in your role as a satirist.

    #709442

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    mike:

    Just like racists, you find those who think their way is superior and need to puch others down to reinforce that superiority.

    We are capable of having a disagreement without making it personal (which is the main reason why I miss Joseph, Feivel and Rabbi of Berlin). I am in the middle of one in the “overeducated girls” thread.

    But when someone assumes their way of Avodas Hashem (or they themselves) are inherently superior over other equally Halachic ways of Avoda (such as the Kollel Vs. Working discussions, or EY vs. America), then that makes for the end of the discussion. You can’t debate someone who thinks you are a worm.

    #709443

    Josh31
    Participant

    “the role of women in the workplace”

    Women are forced into the workplace because men do not take seriously the obligation of supporting their families.

    In this regard I will be judgmental.

    #709444

    feivel
    Participant

    I’m still here gavra. I believe Joseph is also

    #709445

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    feivel:

    Good to see you. You haven’t been posting and interjecting sanity in your poetic fashon.

    I hope to see you more often.

    #709446

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Women are forced into the workplace because men do not take seriously the obligation of supporting their families.

    Tell that to a working boy who can’t get dates because girls don’t want him to work. It’s the women who are more behind this than the men.

    Seriously, where do you people dream this stuff up?

    The anti-learning camp is so wrong in all their assumptions it makes me wonder if it is on purpose.

    (Josh: Sorry about the tone. I reserve the right to be judgmental on this thread.)

    #709447

    squeak
    Participant

    So the boys are blaming the girls…

    And the girls are blaming the boys….

    Sounds like both are being manipulated by a third party.

    It’s probably their parents’ generation, whose focus in life is to pass on suffering to the next generation, just as their parents did to them. Ah, if only all the world were orphans- but then shrinks would have no business. What a world 😉

    #709449

    myfriend
    Member

    Seriously, where do you people dream this stuff up?

    Good question. The answer is these people don’t like Kollel, so they attack Kollel yungerleit as the easiest scapegoat.

    #709450

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    squeak:

    What happened to the shmelfs

    #709451

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Helpful, feel free. But I think I’m one of the least satirical posters here.

    #709452
    #709453

    squeak
    Participant

    popa:

    I’m going to return to serious mode for a moment to answer you properly.

    Shmelf is always ultimately responsible (whether we’re talking about OTD or lifestyle choices in shidduchim). But that doesn’t mean that the shmelfs aren’t being manipulated (as in the case of shidduchim, certainly) or influenced in some way (as in most OTD cases). Some people are more susceptible to manipulation and outside influence, others less so. To the degree that you are conscious of it, you are making a decision to go along with it or not.

    I suppose a complete imbecile would be a completely blameless shmelf.

    </seriousness>

    #709454

    myfriend
    Member

    Mike –

    So why are you complaining on this forum?

    Go on with your life.

    #709455

    Who says anything about complaining?

    #709456

    mike: “complaining?”

    Inigo Montoya:

    “You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means.”

    #709457

    myfriend
    Member

    Who says anything about complaining?

    Let’s see…

    Any of that sound familiar?

    #709458

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    He’s asking a question. Seems like no one answered him.

    Yes Mike, chances are most people here are nuts. Feel free to wade through and make your own decisions. We are all biased.

    #709459

    myfriend
    Member

    SJS: What are you doing in the asylum?

    #709460

    myfriend, thanks for quoting me, but that is no complaint. It’s a my opinion.

    #709461

    myfriend
    Member

    Mike:

    How is commenting that it is wrong for a brother to dance with a bride in middle of the women’s section “judging”?

    It is not. Nor is it referring to anyone specifically, hence no “judgement” involved. It is relating aspects of Jewish law.

    #709462

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    myfriend, I’m doing research.

    #709463

    myfriend
    Member

    That’s what all the patients are claiming.

    #709464

    well in spite of the fact that your intention in posting this was (quite transparently to everyone here)to uffle some feathers. and since we all saw through your real intentions, actually no ones feathers were uffled at all. as a matter of fact some very humorous stuff was generated by our efforts to not get our feathers uffled

    #709466

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    myfriend, but I’m not a card carrying member of the asylum.

    #709467

    myfriend
    Member

    You are a longtime member in good standing.

    #709468

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    thank you 80. proper answer

    #709469

    oomis
    Participant

    It’s the women who are more behind this than the men”

    No, Poppa, it is the yeshivos and SEMINARIES who fill girls’ heads full of opposing hashkofos, that are the real problem. On the one hand, they teach girls all their lives that it is their bautiful and most choshuv role to be the akeres habayis and raise the children. That they should not aspire to be like men, but rather to serve Hashem in the role which He assigned to them.

    Then, all of a sudden when it is inconvenient for their husbands for them to do exactly that, they are suddenly brainwashed into believing they MUST marry a boy who does NOT earn a parnassah, but rather sits and learns while they a) run the household, b) have baby after baby, and c) DO HIS JOB THAT HASHEM DESIGNATED FOR HIM. And if they do not so choose, they are castigated for not being proper n’shei chayil. So what do you think they are going to think is what they must look for?

    #709470

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    oomis:

    I don’t think we disagree. Somebody had accused the men of not taking seriously the obligation to provide for their families. All I did was point out that the girls are refusing to marry them unless they will learn and allow the woman to work and provide for the family. Accordingly, it is hard to see how the men are not taking their obligation seriously.

    Then, because this is the judgmental thread, I accused him of being willfully blind to this.

    Now, as to the issue you raise that the seminaries are brainwashing the girls; I agree. I don’t think there is one hour of sincere thought in the whole year they spend there. (Being judgmental again)

    I love this thread. We should talk about everything here.

    #709471

    Why do you assume his intent was to ruffle feathers? His comments are what I usually think five minutes after I sign in and two minutes before I sign out. Nothing personal, I think everyone is just having fun, but it’s not for everyone. Instead of trying to change everyone else, I just leave and (as someone just put it) go on with my life.

    #709472

    and btw – Mod 80 – that was my favorite book. I didn’t even know anyone else had heard of it.

    #709473

    mw13
    Participant

    Moq – Excellent post, as usual.

    aries:

    “You can’t bash Rabbonim here, but you can judge everyone else and put everyone else down. It is a huge double standard.”

    Aha. So you see absolutely no difference in the attitudes that one should have to a Rav or anybody else. Well you’ll have to forgive those of us who might want to actually respect our Rabbonim… hope you’ll find it in your heart to forgive our extremism.

    And btw, I can’t help but point out that your comments tend to “judge everyone else and put everyone else down” at least as much as the next CR member.

    #709474

    shlomozalman
    Member

    Judgemental or judgmental, both are valid.

    #709475

    aries2756
    Participant

    Moq, here is the difference. When someone posts a question because they want help with an issue such as “I am having a problem with, can anyone advise me about, or help me with this problem I am having…..” then everyone should be able to say whatever their opinions are and bring down whatever mekoros they find.

    My objections is when someone says “I have a problem with or when SOMEONE ELSE DOES…..” because that breeds loshon horah and is very judgmental of other JEWS.

    That’s the difference, asking for help or bashing other people because they don’t live up to YOUR own expectations. So yes I get tzehitzed when people judge other people and start a thread about it. That’s me, so I tend to defend and protect because I don’t like this judgmental attitude. However if someone said, for instance in regard to the father/daughter dance thread…”My wedding is coming up and we are not having a mitzvah tanz, but I would really love to dance with my father, it is my dream. Any thoughts on the subject” well in that case, everyone is invited to give their opinion, and I think they would speak in a little different tone because they would be answering a Kallah. So no I don’t only advocate for children, I try to stay away from loshon horah and from areas that breed it. Can you understand the difference. And when I do so, just like Mike did, I get the same response “Well YOU are being judgmental by judging he poster.

    #709476

    oomis
    Participant

    ” Accordingly, it is hard to see how the men are not taking their obligation seriously.”

    Not really, IMO. If they actually took their obligation seriously, they would say to their Roshei Yeshivah, their parents, and their future kallahs, that they feel uncomfortable with the idea of taking their wives away from THEIR OWN obligations, and that they believe that Hashem really wants married men to learn AND earn, so that their wives can do what they were created to do, if they sincerely desire to do so, and their parents can finally have a little menucha in life and not work themselves into an earlier grave, supporting married children who should be supporting themselves. WHEW! Longest run-on sentence, EVER!!!!!!

    #709477

    aries2756
    Participant

    mw13, you are very cruel and cutting. Just because I told you I have lost faith and trust in Rabbonim because they haven’t stepped up to the plate where children are concerned especially in the case of molestation, you choose to rub my face in it saying that i should ” forgive those of us who might want to actually respect our Rabbonim..” And because they forced my neighbors to sell their business. Have you ever experienced something like that in your life?

    If that is not the most disgusting chutzpah I don’t know what is. Have you ever felt that you were left without a safety net? Like you were a yosem all over again because you didn’t have a Rav to turn to? Do you even know what that feels like? Do you know what kind of plunge into depression a person goes through when they feel that? When their rug of emunah and belief in the people they have always trusted has been pulled out from under them? Do you have any sense of understanding the situation at all? Don’t be so snide you are only showing your complete lack of understanding and comprehension of the entire subject and situation. Not to mention the normal sense of compassion on Yid shows another.

    #709478

    myfriend
    Member

    aries2756:

    This is an *Torah* Judaism site. You would be more comfortable bashing Rabbonim on a Reconstructionist Judaism site.

    #709479

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Not every problem is a global one. If something happened, well we can feel for the ones involved. That, however, does not automatically negate the whole world. If someone slips on something. Does he stop walking? Nor can you expect people here to know what goes on in your neighbor’s house.

    #709480

    myfriend
    Member

    Kapusta – aries said as much that halacha is of little value compared to her feelings. And her open disdain for rabbonim shlit”a, which she doesn’t as much as even deny!

    Here is one (out of many) example quote of her attacks on our holy Torah:

    “Go pull out your seforim and look it up. It doesn’t hold a candle to the worst offenses like child molestation and abuse. So until you frumer than frum name names and lock them up those Rebbeshe culprits…” She is angrily yelling at a poster for having dared quoted our Seforim HaKedoshim saying that something shouldn’t be done.

    In another post she wrote (in response to someone citing Shulchan Aruch saying people shouldn’t do something): “This is not a halachik blog.” !! As in, don’t tell me halachas when it doesn’t comport with how I feel.

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