- This topic has 76 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 4 months ago by QuestionForYou.
November 11, 2010 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #592999November 11, 2010 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #709429
You’ve just “judged” the posters of this forum, in violation of your own words.November 11, 2010 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #709431
it’s judgmental not judgemental
and mold not mould
but i’m not judging you, just saying
i mean IF you want my opinion, well there it is
but you certainly don’t have to listen to me
whatever you feel is right is right with meNovember 11, 2010 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #709432
blah blah blahNovember 11, 2010 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #709433WolfishMusingsParticipant
I am very judgmental. But I reserve my judgments for one person.
The WolfNovember 11, 2010 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #709434not IMember
If people on YW weren’t judgmental it wouldn’t be interesting. besides people enjoy saying firy comments just to hear the response! They may not even believe or feel what they write here!November 11, 2010 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #709435
I am very judgmental and this post is ridiculous.November 11, 2010 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #709436
Stating a Torah position that prohibits certain activities is not a judgement of those engaging in those prohibited activities.
It is is enumerating the Torah’s position on those prohibited activities.November 12, 2010 3:24 am at 3:24 am #709437
mike, you are fighting a losing battle, I’ve tried and got the same answers. Before I joined here, I thought this was really a Yeshivish type of blog, better than VIN. But I quickly learned differently. You can’t bash Rabbonim here, but you can judge everyone else and put everyone else down. It is a huge double standard.November 12, 2010 5:31 am at 5:31 am #709438
Ridiculous. This thread is a flame.
There is no double standard.November 12, 2010 12:10 pm at 12:10 pm #709439MoqMember
Aries, let’s be honest. You are very capable of passion and anger when we talk about issue that are close to your heart – because YOU CARE. We care too – not only about child molestation, but about tzinius, the role of women in the workplace, and the frumkeit of our children. WE CARE. This “let’s all sing kumbaya” attitude is based on “none of this matters anyway”.
True, we should not judge people individually – because, maybe they are doing THE WRONG THING because of life circumstance or because of a lack of education or because they genuinely have a different opinion – unless, of course, they are in Kollel – but yes, we have opinions, because these are things that matter.
Things are right and wrong, and we need to say that, and no, Kumbaya is not more important. And, sometimes we say will that strongly.
This place is about opinion and discussion. You have the opposite opinions of some the opinions here, so you would prefer if we didn’t care, and instead sang Kumbaya. Would you say this about mathematics? Medicine? Proper health? Financial planning? Kumbayah! WAIT – no, that matters…
You wouldn’t sing kumbayah about anything you cared about. Guess what. We care.
Don’t hide your disdain for the way we care about Torah & Frumkiet issues behind achdus. If this were an issue you cared about, you’d express it loudly and clearly, as you just did.
Achdus means – EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE WRONG – I can still treat you like a human being, still respect you, – but you are wrong. And I will be clear about that. Don’t tell me to sing Kumabayah. Sing Kumbayah about something you care about.November 12, 2010 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #709440
Mike, take it for what it is – satire.November 12, 2010 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #709441HelpfulMember
SJS – I will now view all your posts in your role as a satirist.November 12, 2010 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #709442gavra_at_workParticipant
Just like racists, you find those who think their way is superior and need to puch others down to reinforce that superiority.
We are capable of having a disagreement without making it personal (which is the main reason why I miss Joseph, Feivel and Rabbi of Berlin). I am in the middle of one in the “overeducated girls” thread.
But when someone assumes their way of Avodas Hashem (or they themselves) are inherently superior over other equally Halachic ways of Avoda (such as the Kollel Vs. Working discussions, or EY vs. America), then that makes for the end of the discussion. You can’t debate someone who thinks you are a worm.November 12, 2010 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #709443Josh31Participant
“the role of women in the workplace”
Women are forced into the workplace because men do not take seriously the obligation of supporting their families.
In this regard I will be judgmental.November 12, 2010 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #709444feivelParticipant
I’m still here gavra. I believe Joseph is alsoNovember 12, 2010 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #709445gavra_at_workParticipant
Good to see you. You haven’t been posting and interjecting sanity in your poetic fashon.
I hope to see you more often.November 12, 2010 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #709446
Women are forced into the workplace because men do not take seriously the obligation of supporting their families.
Tell that to a working boy who can’t get dates because girls don’t want him to work. It’s the women who are more behind this than the men.
Seriously, where do you people dream this stuff up?
The anti-learning camp is so wrong in all their assumptions it makes me wonder if it is on purpose.
(Josh: Sorry about the tone. I reserve the right to be judgmental on this thread.)November 12, 2010 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #709447squeakParticipant
So the boys are blaming the girls…
And the girls are blaming the boys….
Sounds like both are being manipulated by a third party.
It’s probably their parents’ generation, whose focus in life is to pass on suffering to the next generation, just as their parents did to them. Ah, if only all the world were orphans- but then shrinks would have no business. What a world 😉November 12, 2010 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #709449
Seriously, where do you people dream this stuff up?
Good question. The answer is these people don’t like Kollel, so they attack Kollel yungerleit as the easiest scapegoat.November 12, 2010 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #709450
What happened to the shmelfsNovember 12, 2010 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #709451
Helpful, feel free. But I think I’m one of the least satirical posters here.November 12, 2010 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #709452November 12, 2010 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #709453squeakParticipant
I’m going to return to serious mode for a moment to answer you properly.
Shmelf is always ultimately responsible (whether we’re talking about OTD or lifestyle choices in shidduchim). But that doesn’t mean that the shmelfs aren’t being manipulated (as in the case of shidduchim, certainly) or influenced in some way (as in most OTD cases). Some people are more susceptible to manipulation and outside influence, others less so. To the degree that you are conscious of it, you are making a decision to go along with it or not.
I suppose a complete imbecile would be a completely blameless shmelf.
</seriousness>November 12, 2010 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #709454
So why are you complaining on this forum?
Go on with your life.November 12, 2010 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #709455
Who says anything about complaining?November 12, 2010 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #709456
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means.”November 12, 2010 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #709457
Who says anything about complaining?
Any of that sound familiar?November 12, 2010 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #709458
He’s asking a question. Seems like no one answered him.
Yes Mike, chances are most people here are nuts. Feel free to wade through and make your own decisions. We are all biased.November 12, 2010 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #709459
SJS: What are you doing in the asylum?November 12, 2010 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #709460
myfriend, thanks for quoting me, but that is no complaint. It’s a my opinion.November 12, 2010 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #709461
How is commenting that it is wrong for a brother to dance with a bride in middle of the women’s section “judging”?
It is not. Nor is it referring to anyone specifically, hence no “judgement” involved. It is relating aspects of Jewish law.November 12, 2010 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #709462
myfriend, I’m doing research.November 12, 2010 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #709463
That’s what all the patients are claiming.November 12, 2010 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #709464
well in spite of the fact that your intention in posting this was (quite transparently to everyone here)to uffle some feathers. and since we all saw through your real intentions, actually no ones feathers were uffled at all. as a matter of fact some very humorous stuff was generated by our efforts to not get our feathers uffledNovember 12, 2010 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #709466
myfriend, but I’m not a card carrying member of the asylum.November 12, 2010 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #709467
You are a longtime member in good standing.November 12, 2010 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #709468
thank you 80. proper answerNovember 14, 2010 12:46 am at 12:46 am #709469oomisParticipant
It’s the women who are more behind this than the men”
No, Poppa, it is the yeshivos and SEMINARIES who fill girls’ heads full of opposing hashkofos, that are the real problem. On the one hand, they teach girls all their lives that it is their bautiful and most choshuv role to be the akeres habayis and raise the children. That they should not aspire to be like men, but rather to serve Hashem in the role which He assigned to them.
Then, all of a sudden when it is inconvenient for their husbands for them to do exactly that, they are suddenly brainwashed into believing they MUST marry a boy who does NOT earn a parnassah, but rather sits and learns while they a) run the household, b) have baby after baby, and c) DO HIS JOB THAT HASHEM DESIGNATED FOR HIM. And if they do not so choose, they are castigated for not being proper n’shei chayil. So what do you think they are going to think is what they must look for?November 14, 2010 1:35 am at 1:35 am #709470
I don’t think we disagree. Somebody had accused the men of not taking seriously the obligation to provide for their families. All I did was point out that the girls are refusing to marry them unless they will learn and allow the woman to work and provide for the family. Accordingly, it is hard to see how the men are not taking their obligation seriously.
Then, because this is the judgmental thread, I accused him of being willfully blind to this.
Now, as to the issue you raise that the seminaries are brainwashing the girls; I agree. I don’t think there is one hour of sincere thought in the whole year they spend there. (Being judgmental again)
I love this thread. We should talk about everything here.November 14, 2010 2:04 am at 2:04 am #709471GuardmytongueMember
Why do you assume his intent was to ruffle feathers? His comments are what I usually think five minutes after I sign in and two minutes before I sign out. Nothing personal, I think everyone is just having fun, but it’s not for everyone. Instead of trying to change everyone else, I just leave and (as someone just put it) go on with my life.November 14, 2010 2:06 am at 2:06 am #709472GuardmytongueMember
and btw – Mod 80 – that was my favorite book. I didn’t even know anyone else had heard of it.November 14, 2010 2:47 am at 2:47 am #709473mw13Participant
Moq – Excellent post, as usual.
“You can’t bash Rabbonim here, but you can judge everyone else and put everyone else down. It is a huge double standard.”
Aha. So you see absolutely no difference in the attitudes that one should have to a Rav or anybody else. Well you’ll have to forgive those of us who might want to actually respect our Rabbonim… hope you’ll find it in your heart to forgive our extremism.
And btw, I can’t help but point out that your comments tend to “judge everyone else and put everyone else down” at least as much as the next CR member.November 14, 2010 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #709474shlomozalmanMember
Judgemental or judgmental, both are valid.November 14, 2010 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #709475
Moq, here is the difference. When someone posts a question because they want help with an issue such as “I am having a problem with, can anyone advise me about, or help me with this problem I am having…..” then everyone should be able to say whatever their opinions are and bring down whatever mekoros they find.
My objections is when someone says “I have a problem with or when SOMEONE ELSE DOES…..” because that breeds loshon horah and is very judgmental of other JEWS.
That’s the difference, asking for help or bashing other people because they don’t live up to YOUR own expectations. So yes I get tzehitzed when people judge other people and start a thread about it. That’s me, so I tend to defend and protect because I don’t like this judgmental attitude. However if someone said, for instance in regard to the father/daughter dance thread…”My wedding is coming up and we are not having a mitzvah tanz, but I would really love to dance with my father, it is my dream. Any thoughts on the subject” well in that case, everyone is invited to give their opinion, and I think they would speak in a little different tone because they would be answering a Kallah. So no I don’t only advocate for children, I try to stay away from loshon horah and from areas that breed it. Can you understand the difference. And when I do so, just like Mike did, I get the same response “Well YOU are being judgmental by judging he poster.November 14, 2010 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #709476oomisParticipant
” Accordingly, it is hard to see how the men are not taking their obligation seriously.”
Not really, IMO. If they actually took their obligation seriously, they would say to their Roshei Yeshivah, their parents, and their future kallahs, that they feel uncomfortable with the idea of taking their wives away from THEIR OWN obligations, and that they believe that Hashem really wants married men to learn AND earn, so that their wives can do what they were created to do, if they sincerely desire to do so, and their parents can finally have a little menucha in life and not work themselves into an earlier grave, supporting married children who should be supporting themselves. WHEW! Longest run-on sentence, EVER!!!!!!November 15, 2010 3:23 am at 3:23 am #709477
mw13, you are very cruel and cutting. Just because I told you I have lost faith and trust in Rabbonim because they haven’t stepped up to the plate where children are concerned especially in the case of molestation, you choose to rub my face in it saying that i should ” forgive those of us who might want to actually respect our Rabbonim..” And because they forced my neighbors to sell their business. Have you ever experienced something like that in your life?
If that is not the most disgusting chutzpah I don’t know what is. Have you ever felt that you were left without a safety net? Like you were a yosem all over again because you didn’t have a Rav to turn to? Do you even know what that feels like? Do you know what kind of plunge into depression a person goes through when they feel that? When their rug of emunah and belief in the people they have always trusted has been pulled out from under them? Do you have any sense of understanding the situation at all? Don’t be so snide you are only showing your complete lack of understanding and comprehension of the entire subject and situation. Not to mention the normal sense of compassion on Yid shows another.November 15, 2010 3:30 am at 3:30 am #709478
This is an *Torah* Judaism site. You would be more comfortable bashing Rabbonim on a Reconstructionist Judaism site.November 15, 2010 4:00 am at 4:00 am #709479HaLeiViParticipant
Not every problem is a global one. If something happened, well we can feel for the ones involved. That, however, does not automatically negate the whole world. If someone slips on something. Does he stop walking? Nor can you expect people here to know what goes on in your neighbor’s house.November 15, 2010 6:31 am at 6:31 am #709480
Kapusta – aries said as much that halacha is of little value compared to her feelings. And her open disdain for rabbonim shlit”a, which she doesn’t as much as even deny!
Here is one (out of many) example quote of her attacks on our holy Torah:
“Go pull out your seforim and look it up. It doesn’t hold a candle to the worst offenses like child molestation and abuse. So until you frumer than frum name names and lock them up those Rebbeshe culprits…” She is angrily yelling at a poster for having dared quoted our Seforim HaKedoshim saying that something shouldn’t be done.
In another post she wrote (in response to someone citing Shulchan Aruch saying people shouldn’t do something): “This is not a halachik blog.” !! As in, don’t tell me halachas when it doesn’t comport with how I feel.
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