What I believe is the truth about the Iran war

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  • #2519979
    philosopher
    Participant

    This war reminds me of the Iraq war where there were claims by intelligence organizations that Sadaam Hussein had massive piles of WMD, but of course, that “info” was false.

    What proof is there that Iran had the capabilities to produce nuclear weapons and that they were on the verge of finishing production of nuclear weapons? This claim has been going on for literally decades and yet there never were any nuclear weapons produced by Iran.

    As with the Iraq war, it was Israel that provided Intel that Sadaam Hussein had stockpiles of WMD and now they “provided Intel” that Iran is on the verge of producing nuclear bombs. And although Sharon claimed to neutral about the Iraq war, neither pushing for the war nor against, if you read articles about that war and Israel’s involvement, you do see a sort of underhanded pressure that Sharon put on Bush, same as this scenario now with Netanyahu and Trump.

    I do not believe the Israelis for one minute. And as many lies as Tucker Carlson says about Israel, i believe that he is right in blaming Israel that Americans (soldiers) are dying because of Israel.

    As with Oct 7, I don’t believe that Netanyahu didn’t know there will be attacks by the Fakestinian terrorists and now I believe that he’s lying about Iran being on verge of producing nuclear weapons. This is all politics, and his lies are the reason he is still in power.

    I went to Satmer school, even though my family wasn’t Satmer. Reading the Jewish Press, I was convinced that Zionism is the right way, regardless of the Satmer shittah. I believed that Jews should defend ourselves and that is why Zionism resonated with me. But the older I get the more I realize what fakers and brutal people secular Zionists are, particularly the secular in the Israeli gov. They are willing to put their own people and their own soldiers in harms way, and though I still believe Jews have an obligation to defend ourselves against our enemies, I am coming to an understanding that the Satmer rebbe was right regarding Zionism and the Israeli gov.

    I predict that this war will give more validation for the anti-Semites saying Americans are fighting Israel’s wars and dying for Israel. I predict so because I also believe that that is the truth.

    #2520055
    therealcharidy
    Participant

    Thanks for your opinion Neturei Karta. Are you also sitting shiva for Khamenei like your leader

    #2520056
    Participant
    Participant

    1) the ayatollah bragged multiple times about their nuclear capabilities. Not that his word could be believed for anything, but it wasn’t Israel who started this narrative. There were known nuclear facilities and scientists in Iran. Obama and the UN both recognized the threat that was posed by Iran.

    2) Nuclear concerns aside, Iran was the sponsor behind multiple terrorist entities, including Hamas and Hezbollah.
    But–this is an important but–it’s not just an “Israeli war”. Iran supplied weapons to Russia and is believed to have proxies in Europe and America. Trump isn’t sending troops to help Netanyahu. He’s doing this because it’s in the general Western world’s best interest to down Iran.

    3) In general, I would find it hard to believe that Netanyahu’s opinion influenced Trump that much, one way or the other. The hamas deal should poeve that

    #2520064
    pekak
    Participant

    It was the UK that provided the WMD intel on Iraq. You never learned in Satmar.

    #2520078
    ujm
    Participant

    Would you rather roll the dice to see if you’re right or wrong until Iran drops a nuke on Tel Aviv?

    #2520395

    phil, everyone agrees that Iran wanted to make nuclear weapons, and they openly say who their enemy is. The machlokes is only about how successful they are. Clearly, someone who wants to kill others deserves the punishment. They already killed tens of thousands of their own citizens.

    The public arguments is about politics – convince enough people, make sure another party is blamed, etc. It is not relevant to the simple fact that they deserve the punishment.

    #2520414
    Koifer BIkur
    Participant

    Prepare yourself for the onslaught of name-calling and vituperation that will be coming in your direction.

    #2520432
    philosopher
    Participant

    Koifer Bikur, what you predicted is exactly what happened…

    #2520433
    philosopher
    Participant

    therealcharidy, you should work on your comprehension skills. I don’t like secular Zionists, I hate Netanyahu, they are liars and don’t care about their citizens and the soldiers in the IDF who are their pawns in their political games. That is my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me, but to call me NK is so absolutely ridiculous. As I said, I always believed, and still do, that Jews must defend themselves against their enemies. That is not the position of NK and neither of Satmer. What I said about agreeing with the Satmer is their stance against the Zionist government. I am particularly anti the secular Zionist government who makes their decisions based on political gain and approval from US presidents. But go ahead, call me an NK even if it doesn’t have any shaichos to what I said.

    #2520436
    philosopher
    Participant

    Participant, Sadaam Hussein bragged about his weapons too. That is the culture in the region, they cannot be seen as weak. The claim that they are close to producing nuclear weapons is one that is going on for decades.

    I absolutely agree that Iran sponsors terrorism globally. However, I highly doubt that bombing them for a few weeks will change anything. Unless Trump will put troops on the ground and fight in Iran for years like Bush did in Iraq, nothing will change even after weeks of bombing. But I know Trump won’t do that, not saying he should, and certainly those in Trump’s administration are against a long, drawn out war, so essentially, my opinion at this time, is that nothing will change.

    This situation is more or less like in Gaza. Even after over 1,000 IDF soldiers died and hundreds became crippled, Hamas has not been eradicated nor the Fakestinians’ ideology changed. And worse, now there will be a “peace government” or whatever they call it, made up of governments who hate Israel.

    I don’t believe Netanyahu actually made Trump go to war with Iraq, Trump wouldn’t fight a war he is not interested in fighting, but I do believe Netanyahu goaded him to go to war with Iran for all the reasons he claimed are factual. But I believe that Netanyahu is a liar and everything he does is for his own political gain.

    #2520443
    yankel berel
    Participant

    philosopher thinks he lives in an alternate universe

    no wonder — he grew up in ….

    his comments are fitting for real antisemites

    he apparently feels no achrayut whatsoever towards his brothers

    there were people in WW2 who sold their own father and mother for a nezid adashim

    wonder what philosopher would have done in those circumstances ….

    hahamim hizahru bedivreichem ….
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    #2520444
    yankel berel
    Participant

    philosopher and carlsson … a good pair ….
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    #2520501
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @op
    So there has been a thread opened recently about psychotic medication. I responded to that thread. Only one comment that I wrote has been published and then the thread was taken down. This is remncisnet to how so many were silenced in the media and in the medical industry about the covid-19 vaccine. Why can’t we let people argue and debate? People should be able to decided for themselves which side of the fence they are on and what they want for themselves regarding their health.

    If there is silencing of this topic or other topics then it is because there are some who are afraid of a debate for good reason. Perhaps there is some truth they don’t want to hear.

    #2520561
    philosopher
    Participant

    After Oct 7 I realized the extent of the viciousness of many people in the Israeli government, particularly Netanyahu, and many generals in the army. You can be as naive you want, but in no way did the Israeli intelligence not know about impending invasion. There is a reason they let it happen. I will not post the the reason I believe they ignored the invasion as I am not interested in arguing about it.

    Gaza was a real threat that was ignored for decades. And now, after 924 soldiers have died and 500 crippled for life, instead of Netanyahu annexing Gaza and creating some sort of program to ship the Fakestinians out to other countries (there are other countries who would take them in for monetary gains and there are hundreds of thousands of Fakestinians who want to leave Gaza and would take the offer of money to leave )because they are all Hamas, they all support terrorism and/or are engaged in it. Netanyahu ignored the sacrifices of his soldiers and the threat to security that will rise again, and he let there be created a “board of peace” made up of international governments who hate israel. Even Trump with his grand ideas was waiting Netanyahu should annex Gaza before anouncing this “board of peace” initiative after Netanyahu failed to act. So now we have the same terrorists rebuilding their terrorist infrastructure again. What a farce. Every single decision by Netanyahu and others in leadership position in Israel in the army or government, is made with political intent and geopolitical intentions of groveling to nations and governments who hate Israel/Jews regardless.

    #2520564
    philosopher
    Participant

    Yankel Berel because I dont agree with Netanyahu and ilk and the intentions and truth behind his actions makes me apparently have no achrayos towards other Jews according to you…

    But actually, the opposite is true. I care about Jews in the US who may likely suffer as a result of this needless war, and I care about Jews in Israel who are continously being taken for rides by the Israeli government.

    I dont have to naively believe in the Israeli government to care about klal Yisroel. In fact, I care more about klal Yisroel than you who blindly believes and trusts in the Israeli governments actions.

    #2520580
    philosopher
    Participant

    In 2002, Netanyahu, with his gift of gab, spoke to Congress about the “dangers of Saddaam Hussein’s regime and his program of WMD”, convincing Congress to agree to the Iraq war… you can find the video online.

    I see Netanyahu’s pattern of deception; he creates scenarios where there is supposed danger to Israel and world peace to scare Israelis and Israel’s greatest support, the US, and lure them into thinking that he has the answer to their problems. That is why he is in power this long. Meanwhile, he ignores real threats to Israel’s security which are the Fakestinian terrorists because he doesnt want to rile up the left who can topple him from his position in power. The Fakestinians could perpetuate a culture of violence and build their terrorist infrastructure because Netanyahu, and the Israeli left, chose to ignore it. And even after the cost of so many lives lost, they STILL choose to ignore the threat of Fakestinians in and near their territory.

    Decisions made by Netanyahu and the leftists in the government and army is about politics, not security.

    #2520671
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To yankel berel

    Comparing Carlson and Philosopher is inappropriate.

    #2520675
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Philosopher,

    I will not reduce myself to name calling and am just here to give my opinion

    I firmly believe that Trump did what he did because

    1) he thinks that Iran was behind the assassination attempts on his life (hey maybe they were mossad to pretend it was Iran) and wanted to “settle the score”

    2) he told the Iranian people “help is on the way” regarding overthrowing the government (which maybe was also started by the mossad, hey you never know)

    Nuclear ambitions is only an “excuse” on trumps part

    #2520697
    rescue
    Participant

    Yankel berel that’s a little bit of a stretch to say that. Calm. Down

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