What incitement??

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  • #1937487
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I just want to seperate the officers death from the others. Tho I did find it odd that they did not mention the serious injury of the police officer who died a horrible and inexcusable death. Since the details of the cause did come out in the end, i can only speculate why the attack itself was not publicized earlier or more thoroughly. Having said that, I hope they find whoever did it and show no mercy, but the coverage of the missing lectern seems to be more of a priority right now if the amount of coverage is an indicator.

    #1937496
    ujm
    Participant

    Don’t forget the crime of the century, the guy who put his feet on Pelosi’s desk.

    He truly deserves life imprisonment.

    #1937354
    ywnjudy
    Participant

    Shady Charedi, it may interest you to hear Rabbi Isser Weisberg’s video titled “Mr.President the ball is in your court”. You’re the rational one here, among many (not all) Mad Hatters, however well-versed they are at political, tech, and halachic jargon.

    The reason truthful timelines would be hard to find may be due to, as you said, lib censorship. Such as for example, the squelching of that HCQ video by truth-speaking doctors.

    A good number of the posters here have mindsets so similar to antifa, that i’d not be surprised if some of them are antifa or J.Street. Could be that something went awry in their past, such as trauma, certain influences, or whatever… I even sometimes wonder, however farfetched, if George Soros might not be a decades-long puppet of hypnotizers since WW2, chosen to be a fall-guy. As in novels by Nachman Seltzer. Fiction sometimes reflects reality.

    I mean, if posters here had religious mindsets, wouldn’t they think more along the lines of “hevei mispallel b’shleimus shel malchus”? rather than openly speaking against Trump?? And i don’t mean just w/respect to the latest scenario, but even longer ago, when there was the ongoing war against Trump.

    Truth tell, if anyone should be hate-filled, it’s me, and i am! I’ve many many reasons for that, most of which i won’t delve into. The most i’ll say for now, is that schools and the phony unhealthcare system are killers. And i hate them the way holocaust survivors hated nazi’s – the difference being that i’m getting zero reparations from the iconic Schenirer despite the irreversible health damage i incurred. Someone with my chronic unhealth should have never had to attend school, and which is why Rechnitz’ impassioned speech leaves me cold. (Trust me, his bleedin’ heart ain’t seen or felt nothin’ yet.)

    But that doesn’t mean i can’t be objective about hotheads such as Trump, as the “least-worst” of the lot. With him “cancelled”, prepare for the rush to the abyss, it won’t be pretty.

    #1937548
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    BTW Shady

    When a mob boss tells his underlings “Take care of that guy”

    Do you not think he bears, at least some, responsibility for their actions.

    Granted legally he may have plausible deniability (“I meant buy him a birthday cake! not kill him!”) which was DY’s question. But obviously he bears some guily

    YWNjudy

    Sounds like youv’e been through rough stuff wishing you refuas hanefesh and refuas haguf

    #1937559
    Health
    Participant

    Ubiq -“Do you not think he bears, at least some, responsibility for their actions”

    Do you think that the Lib Politicians bear some responsibility for the Presidential Election to be Stolen?!?

    #1937567
    ywnjudy
    Participant

    I challenge y’all to debate Shapiro, Limbaugh, Levin and other conservatives on air. OK, so you’ll say you don’t get through, right?

    Be that as it may, they’re intellectually analytical, and they dispute the claims of incitement.

    Since libs are so fond of labelling people “conspiratist” perhaps its time the tables are turned, and =libs= are labelled conspiratists, for the so-called-incitement-to-violence claims against Trump. Limbaugh pointed out that [the lib media hardly ever, if at all, air the actual speech Trump made at the protest, and that’s because accusations in their own wording have more propagandist impact].
    …not his precise wording, but the gist of it.

    #1937584
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Do you think that the Lib Politicians bear some responsibility for the Presidential Election to be Stolen?!?”

    Can you provide a politician who told thousands of supporters to go out and steal the election?

    Otherwise I don’t understand the connection

    #1937573
    The Shady Charedi
    Participant

    @ubiquitin
    Show me one place Trump said anything remotely similar to “Take care of that guy”.
    Your quotes from before, even as out-of-context as they are, don’t come close.

    #1937591
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    The shady

    “Your quotes from before, even as out-of-context as they are, don’t come close.”

    I agree, they do not come close. “Go fight” is faaaar more direct than “take care of that guy”
    Take care of that guy, someone who didndt know the context could make a mistake and not recognize the incitement. With Trump it is much easier, he was far more direct.

    Obviously context matters too, if a deli owner tells guy at counter “take care of that customer” and the guy kils him, obviously the deli owner isn’t guilty though he used the same expression as the mafia boss
    SO you can yell up and down that the mob boss who said “take care of him” said nothing wrong. Without knowing the full context though, you’d be wrong.

    Now while You dismissed my explanation, but you didn’t explain what he meant. When he told the crowd that had been manipulated into thinking there was still something that can be done to change the election, that they should go to the Capitol “be strong” “fight like he[ck]”

    Can you explain what he meant (that was nebach so misunderstood by many of the rally attendees, several of his supporters, cabinet members, and GOP senators) what DID he mean?

    #1937593
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Ywn judy

    “Be that as it may, they’re intellectually analytical, and they dispute the claims of incitement.”

    Lol. Limbaugh and Levin are the opposite of intellectually analytical.

    For example while I didnt listen to Limbaugh on THIS topic I have it on good authority that he “pointed out that [the lib media hardly ever, if at all, air the actual speech Trump made at the protest, and that’s because accusations in their own wording have more propagandist impact].”

    I know crazy to think that a human would complain that a speech that incited violence wasn’t broadcast more ! But thats how unintellectual Limbaugh is. He totally would say something that silly.

    Seriously though they aren’t interested in debate. and we dont need them:
    I provided quotes and context.
    If you think when Trump said “Go fight” he meant a friendly pillow fight say so. IF you think he meant “Go right ” (ie towards the lincoln memorial) but his word slurring tendency make it sound like “Go fight” say so. I’m trying to understand what you think he meant

    #1937645
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “But thats how unintellectual Limbaugh is. He totally would say something that silly.”

    That is not even close to what you quoted. Try again

    #1937647
    DovidBT
    Participant

    Don’t forget the crime of the century, the guy who put his feet on Pelosi’s desk.
    He truly deserves life imprisonment.

    The worst punishment possible would be to lock him in a room for a month and make him watch Pelosi’s speeches 24 hours a day.

    #1937703
    Health
    Participant

    Ubiq -“Can you provide a politician who told thousands of supporters to go out and steal the election?”

    “Brad Raffensperger, whose office oversees Georgia’s election, said: “Was there illegal voting? I am sure there was. And my office is investigating all of it.”

    Who told them there was? Obviously another Politician!
    Unless he believes any Drunk in the street.

    “Does it rise to the numbers or margin necessary to change the outcome to where President Trump is, given Georgia’s electoral votes? That is unlikely.”

    What a joke – he said “my office is investigating all of it”, who is he?
    If there was illegal voting – it should be given to prosecutors and Judges!
    It’s like the Fable with Fox and chicken house.
    They were looking for someone to guard the house and the Fox volunteered to do it!

    #1937837
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Health, Georgia alone does not make the difference and non have proof that fraud occured. Put up or shut up.

    #1937851
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty, so fraud must be proven.

    #1937958
    Health
    Participant

    RE -“Put up or shut up.”

    I did already.
    How come you use the CR to Promote the Lib Lies, but you don’t read any other people’s posts?!?

    From the topic called “Stop the Steal Anarchists”:
    From the “Citizen”:
    “In the early hours of Nov. 5, a surge of some 20,000 mail-in votes suddenly appeared for Joe Biden, while approximately 1,000 votes for President Trump mysteriously disappeared from his own totals in the critical swing state, where Biden holds a razor-thin lead.
    A poll watcher noticed the suspicious shift in votes while monitoring the interim election results on the Georgia secretary of state website.
    “I concluded from looking at these results that this was an irregularity, since there was no obvious reason for President Trump’s totals to have decreased while former Vice President Biden’s totals increased dramatically,” Voter GA co-founder Garland Favorito swore in an affidavit he filed [last] week with the secretary of state’s office.
    Favorito suspects a variety of factors, including that votes were “artificially inflated” for Biden while using the same Dominion Voting system used by Antrim County, Mich., which erroneously transferred 6,000 votes from Trump to Biden. Last year, Georgia contracted with Dominion to automate vote tabulations in all 159 of its counties.
    “The software appears to have thrown votes from Trump to Biden here too,” he said in a RealClearInvestigations interview. “Or Biden ballots were manufactured.”
    The large disparity of gains between the two candidates “was something I had never witnessed before in my years of election monitoring,” said Favorito, a career IT professional who has been a leading advocate for election integrity in the state over the past two decades. He says he is not a Republican or Trump supporter!”

    #1938000
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Health Retrumpican, if it is such great proof why did all the courts not accept it like your HCL for COVID?

    #1938013
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Reb E, are you kidding? Do you look into this stuff before you post?

    #1938040
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Charlie
    Considering that you claim Trump responsible for violence in a speech where he explictly called for “peaceful” demonstrations do you then feel

    a) Joe Biden is responsible for violence by telling a crowd of black people Mitt Romney “would put y’all back in chains

    b) Maxine Waters is responsible for violence by telling people to ensure any member of Trumps Cabinet is not welcome in any publiplace

    c) Nancy Pelosi is responsible for violence by stating there should be “uprisings” all over the country

    d) Chris Cuomo is responsible for violence for stating in the midst of violent protests that “Where does it say protests must be peaceful”?

    e) Why wat the takeover of the Capitol building by a leftwing mob during the Kavanaugh hearing not condemned?

    #1938041
    emes nisht sheker
    Participant

    Do you only try to antagonize those you don’t agree with? Never an actual substantive comment. Health spouted nonsense as usual and Reb E responded perfectly. Yet, apparently no issues with Health’s nonsense. Sure says a lot about you.

    #1938045
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Ah, it’s my favorite stalker troll. Missed you! So to respond to you even though you’re just an obnoxious stalker who follows me around waiting for something to comment on, no, Reb E did not answer perfectly. Even if he did, it’s my decision to comment. Or was there a request form I was supposed to send to you first?. And what shaichus Health? There are plenty of posters I don’t bother responding to (or reading), you are usually one of them.

    Move along.

    #1938512
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I didn’t read most of the comments but I figured this thread would be the best place for my post (besides starting a new thread)

    Remember 4 years ago when trump was inaugurated Chelsea Handler had a picture with herself and trump’s head and Madonna said she has thought of blowing up the White House and that wasn’t considered “high crime and misdemeanor” because they weren’t charged

    #1938523
    Amil Zola
    Participant

    It was Kathy Griffin.

    #1938532
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Amil,

    🤷‍♂️

    I don’t remember it clearly but either way it doesn’t make a difference

    #1938660
    smerel
    Participant

    When you see the events of last week you see another reason why the Torah only allows Beis Din to punish for garmey- borey hezeka and not groma

    Once you can claim “you are guilty because you “caused” something” there is no end to what you can charge your enemies with Therefore if it isn’t clear garmey you can’t be punished for “causing” in this world. Plus there is no way to know what is someone else’s heart so “he meant to incite a crowd ” can not be decided by a human court.

    (If some liberal politician said right before a BLM riot “We have to FIGHT police brutality. We have to FIGHT to make sure black lives aren’t lost at the hands of the police no-one would try him for incitement. The incitement charges are clearly being abused )

    I don’t only mean Trump. The prosecutor said that he may charge people who were nowhere near police office Siticik at the time of his murder with murder-felony. That is so sedom like you see why the Torah does not allow human courts to punish for groma.

    In general the abuse of “he caused” is an endemic in the American court system.

    #1938721
    jackk
    Participant

    According to the constitution, there is no need to have a legal and criminal definition of incitement for the president to be impeached. There is no leniency due to legal definitions of causation..

    Furthermore, the text of the impeachment is clear on what ideas and words he used to incite people.

    The text of the impeachment is:

    “On January 6, 2021, pursuant to the 12th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, the House of Representatives, and the Senate met at the United States Capitol for a Joint Session of Congress to count the votes of the Electoral College. In the months preceding the Joint Session, President Trump repeatedly issued false statements asserting that the Presidential election results were the product of widespread fraud and should not be accepted by the American people or certified by State or Federal officials. Shortly before the Joint Session commenced, President Trump, addressed a crowd at the Ellipse in Washington, D.C. There, he reiterated false claims that “we won this election, and we won it by a landslide.”

    “He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged – and FORSEEABLY (my emphasis) resulted in – LAWLESS (my emphasis) action at the Capitol, such as: “if you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country any more.” Thus INCITED (my emphasis) by President Trump, members of the crowd he had addressed, in an attempt to, among other objectives, interfere with the Joint Session’s solemn constitutional duty to certify the results of the 2020 Presidential election, unlawfully breached and vandalized the Capitol, injured and killed law enforcement personnel, menaced Members of Congress, the Vice President, and Congressional personnel, and engaged in other violent, deadly, destructive and seditious acts. ”

    #1938766
    Health
    Participant

    Smerel -“The incitement charges are clearly being abused )”

    No, it’s much worse than that!
    Let me explain the American Law – to charge anybody with incitement – the words have to come before the action.
    Eg, you say something that causes a crime.
    In this case, they claim his words of -“Go to the Capitol and fight”, caused the Riot there.
    Unfortunately even Republicans and of the Libs that post here, bought into this Lie!

    The Truth is DemonCrats pushed e/o this Lie to Cause the Insurection against Trump!
    Again – the Facts are – the Breaking in/Riot at Capitol – Started before those words!

    #1938797
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    ActuallyI looked up certain facts,

    1) Jonny Depp Publicly asked “when was the last time an actor assaniated a President”

    2) Madonna stated publicle shed thought about blowing up the White House

    3) Kathy Griffen held up a picture of Donald Trump’s severed and bloodied head,

    None of them were arrested, none of them were banned on social media, none of them were ostracized.

    And yes the incitement has led to numerous deaths and injuries.

    Including the attack on the Republican softball practice were an avowed Bernie Sanders supporter and former staffer opened fire on Republican comgressman.

    #1938800
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Torah punishes a maisis umaduach to death.

    #1938802
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Wbat about the Pittsburg synagouge massacre encouraged by Trump?

    #1938804
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Reports have come out about how Kushner & Scavino are keeping Trump off alternitve Social Media platforms.

    There has been much speculation as to why.

    I think it’s obvious.

    The Dems have used Trumps tweets as a cover for the horrible and dangerous things they have done for over 4 years.

    Without Trumps tweets more and more focus is being placed on the fact that Democrat Politicians have openly incited violence (Nancy Pelosi calling for uprisings) Excused violence (Chris Cuomo asking “where does it say protests must be peaceful) threatened the lives of politicians (Kathy Griffin holding up Trumps severed head) Manipulated elections (Twitter banning the NY Post story that has now been acknowledged to have been 100% accurate).

    Without Trumps tweets to serve as a distraction more and more focus is being put that on the fact that the Democrats craven lust for power has allowed them to tear this country apart and attempt to ruin anyone who stands in their way.

    #1938815
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Oh right, reb e. I remember him sending out an email looking for volunteers.

    #1938823
    jackk
    Participant

    Kathy Griffin had tremendous repercussions for her actions.
    She was fired from CNN, Federal officials threatened to charge her with conspiracy to assassinate the president, and she was put on the no fly list and couldn’t fly for two months.

    Madonna’s full statement was, ““Yes, I’m angry. Yes, I am outraged. Yes, I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House,” Madonna said. “But I know that this won’t change anything. We cannot fall into despair.”

    Johnny Depp got into trouble right away and apologized the very next day.

    The defense that Trump uses is always blame someone else. Blame antifa, BLM, the media … Kids learn very early in life that what someone else does is no excuse for you.
    This time a few of his supporters took his words to what they perceived as the natural conclusion.

    If you can see incitement in the 3 actors words then it’s a slam dunk for you to see that Trump is guilty of incitement. He is not a famous actor. He is the President of the WHOLE United Stated and his followers treat him like an Idol.

    #1938834
    emes nisht sheker
    Participant

    Reb e, spot on! Of course the self-proclaimed thought police here has to criticize your statement, which to anyone with any saychel it was obvious the point you are making. Not going to explain it as if they can’t figure out how ridiculous the statements they are making that prompted your spot on response, there is really no helping them understand.

    #1938841
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Oh you are such a riot!! If i post that my nose is running are you going to rush over to that thread to let everyone know it’s just insane speculation? Do you ever let go of obsessions or should i worry about you showing up in real life sonewhere too?

    #1938842
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Better idea! I’m gonna go open a thread about how much i can’t stand having rats burrowing in my garbage cans just to see how you will manage to come out in support of it!!!! This could be fun.

    #1938840
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The problem is that Trump is not smart enough to realize the effect of his speech but that is no excuse.
    Not knowing is no defense.

    #1938846
    Health
    Participant

    Oh Jackk -“If you can see incitement in the 3 actors words then it’s a slam dunk for you to see that Trump is guilty of incitement”

    Pray tell – where was this incitement?
    Biden was right – he quoted Gobbels – if you repeat a lie, over and over, people will believe it.
    One thing he doesn’t know – what the Torah says – Kol Haposel B’Momo Poisel!

    #1938852
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Health, what you quoted applies to Trump and you.

    #1938860
    jackk
    Participant

    Health,

    Did you read the impeachment charge ? I quoted it verbatim.

    Please take the text of the charge and show exactly why it is not incitement for insurrection.

    And since you will never be able to do that because you made up your own definition of incitement , but the people in congress know much better what incitement for insurrection is , the facts remain that Trump was impeached for incitement of an insurrection and will hopefully be convicted by the senate this time.

    #1938874
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    By Trump not calling out white supremacists but encouraging them this is what we get:
    See https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1938618/anti-semitism-seen-in-capitol-insurrection-raises-alarms.html

    #1938876
    smerel
    Participant

    <i>The Torah punishes a maisis umaduach to death.</i>

    That would only be true what he said was explicit and unequivocal . Among other limitations.

    #1938881
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    It is not once that this incitement was flamed that their would be a question in Trump’s intentions.

    #1938883
    smerel
    Participant

    <i>“He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged – and FORSEEABLY (my emphasis) resulted in – LAWLESS (my emphasis) action at the Capitol, such as: “if you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country any more.” Thus INCITED (my emphasis) by President Trump,…</i>

    When I first read this post I though it was written by an OPPONENT of impeachment trying to highlight how far fetched and weak of a case the Democrats have that Trump is guilty of anything.

    #1938914
    Health
    Participant

    RE -“Health, what you quoted applies to Trump and you.”

    It shows how desperate you are, because you are on the Wrong of the Truth!

    #1938938
    Health
    Participant

    Oh Jackk, – “And since you will never be able to do that because you made up your own definition of incitement , but the people in congress know much better what incitement for insurrection is , the facts remain that Trump was impeached for incitement of an insurrection and will hopefully be convicted by the senate this time”

    And I thought that you can at least understand a Simple post?!?
    I’ll try again:
    You can’t charge or convict someone on Incitement, if the Crime already started.
    Check out the Time when they broke into the Capitol!

    #1939725
    ywnjudy
    Participant

    Syag, thanks for taking on ubiquitin’s response, as i couldn’t tackle it!

    Smerel & Health, i seriously annoint both of you to preside over the Supreme Court. That would endow it with a burst of fresh air. When people have their minds set, they’re often set in stone. Never mind the timing of the crime, and never mind the gross election fraud. Never mind that the so-called facts of the “crime”, and the so-called “non-proof” of fraud wouldn’t hold up in a real court. They prefer that 2+2=5 be set in stone too, Orwellian-style.

    As for “Everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty”, Eliezer, then why have you condemned Trump as a so-called Narc? If he were a true NPD, i seriously doubt his children would have turned out to be so full of zest, and such advocates of his. More likely, they’d have turned out resentful, submissive, or maladjusted in one way or another. You said your son has ADHD, so have you given thought to how he might have turned out, had he had Trump’s background?

    #1939800
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    ywnjudy

    “Syag, thanks for taking on ubiquitin’s response, as i couldn’t tackle it!”

    she didnt sorry to let you down
    Here is my response again

    “Seriously though they aren’t interested in debate. and we dont need them:
    I provided quotes and context.
    If you think when Trump said “Go fight” he meant a friendly pillow fight say so. IF you think he meant “Go right ” (ie towards the lincoln memorial) but his word slurring tendency make it sound like “Go fight” say so. I’m trying to understand what you think he meant:”

    (note “seriously though”, the pervious part wasn’t serious)

    #1939801
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “…, and never mind the gross election fraud. … the so-called “non-proof” of fraud wouldn’t hold up in a real court”

    Lol, Trump (and his goons) tried in court! and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and a few more times

    “When people have their minds set, they’re often set in stone.”

    Truer words have ever been spoken

    #1939804
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    ywnjudy, the Tzetil Katan from the Noam Elimelech says that our assignment in this world is to change our nature which my son is doing. He has ka’h three children who will be very proud of him.

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