When should bochurim start dating?
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- This topic has 77 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 4 months, 1 week ago by n0mesorah.
January 2, 2023 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #2153233MenachemFivenbirmbaumParticipant
What age is the right age for a bochur to start dating?January 2, 2023 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #2153329commonsaychelParticipant
14 or 46January 2, 2023 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #2153331
Variations of this question have been debated ad nauseam on multiple prior threads. The consensus among the CR talemedi chachamim is at puberty, unless the parents are domiciled in Kentucky in which case a year or two earlier is OK in accordacne with minhag hamokom.January 2, 2023 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #2153333
There was a poll on the main site
When it’s over you’ll have your answerJanuary 2, 2023 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #2153335RockyParticipant
It really depends on many factors.
B. ability to bring in an income
C. Is he learning in yeshiva and being productive? Is he working?
D. societal norms (chasidishe, litvishe, amish etc.)
E. How meddling will his parents be in the process and drag it out
It is almost like asking at what age a person should retire.January 2, 2023 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #2153357Y.W. EditorKeymasterJanuary 2, 2023 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #2153364
I don’t think the editor ever commented on one of my threads!January 2, 2023 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #2153367
Shemona Esre L’Chupa. That’s what Chazal say. It’s always smart to follow Chazal.
Shemona Esre means married by that age. Not starting to date. So I’d say start dating no later than age 17.January 2, 2023 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #2153371BaltimoreMavenParticipant
Why are we having polls and voting if the Gedolim have already spoken om this numerous times???January 2, 2023 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #2153388LakewoodscoopParticipant
Yes we got the editor to comment! Any more questions to get them to comment on?
Maybe a poll that asks. Do you believe that Yeshiva World reports accurately?January 2, 2023 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #2153395DaMosheParticipant
I don’t think there’s one age that fits everyone.
There should be more education on what having your own home is like. How to be financially responsible, how to maintain a home, etc. That’s something which isn’t really taught in yeshivos, and I personally know many individuals who struggled with it right after getting married.
Start teaching those items, and then maybe boys will be ready for marriage earlier.January 2, 2023 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #2153409
There is a sugya in Kidduhin with a bunch of opinions and statements. You seem so sure……January 2, 2023 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #2153408
Perhaps the most significant acknowledgment in the survey question on the news site is the following:
“…. Specifically, bitter battles are raging – and have raged for years – over what, if anything, should be done to solve the shidduch crisis – IF ONE ACTUALLY EXISTS (that’s a disagreement in and of itself).
Kol hakovod to the editors for acknowledging reality even though it may not enhance the metrics for “engagement time” in the CR.January 2, 2023 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #2153406yungermanSParticipant
There’s no set official age.
The correct age is when each bochur feels mature and responsible for marriage and everything it involves then he should start dating. Cause in truth Hashem already has his zivvug waiting for him from 40 days before he was even born.January 2, 2023 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #2153424
You are halachicly obligated to get married by age 20 according to the Shulchan Aruch. Or, according to some shittos, by 24 if (AND ONLY IF) you are learning Torah full time.January 2, 2023 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #2153422commonsaychelParticipant
It depends on if he drives a Tesla on Shabbos, watches torah on YouTube, is a safek mamzer.January 2, 2023 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #2153421MarxistParticipant
For Litvishe bochurim 23 is typically the best age.January 2, 2023 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #2153482
That’s a lot better. Thank you! Just a little pointer. Learning full time is a more modern term. Some full time learners will be included and some part time learners may be excluded from this ruling. It’s questionable how weighty this ruling is, but it is black-on-white Shulchan Aruch.January 2, 2023 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #2153487yungermanSParticipant
Pirkei avos says the correct proper age to get married is 18
What makes 23 the best age for litvishe bochrim to get married?January 2, 2023 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #2153484get it straightParticipant
if you want to end the crisis let people get married to more than 1 wife.January 3, 2023 8:19 am at 8:19 am #2153499Zaphod BeeblebroxParticipant
If there is a heter to wait until 24 (I heard 25) if one is learning, then what is there to really argue about in regard to bochurim being required to get married earlier? A brochure is someone who by definition is learning. Unless it just means any young man, but here on yeshiva world I don’t think we classify such shkutzim as Jewish, let alone bochurim. Just to clarify, by we, I mean you.January 3, 2023 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #2153693
Rambam suggests job -> house -> marriage unless you are a fool. I am sure someone will point out that this Rambam is also outdated.January 3, 2023 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #2153698BMGParticipant
When they’re mature enough to realize that this question shouldn’t be decided by annonomous rando’s on the internetJanuary 3, 2023 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #2153734
Didn’t we do that one already? It’s fuzzy to me. I’ll bump it.January 4, 2023 1:46 am at 1:46 am #2153760RBZSParticipant
They tell a story that the Rebbe of Satmar Rav Yoel ztvk”l attended a wedding and the chosson appeared to be very young (and, I suppose, immature).
The Rebbe questioned the matter and they replied that when one is shiminesreh he should go to the chuppah.
The Rebbe, who was known for his quick, sharp, wit, said: True. But if someone davens a shiminesreh too fast, he has to repeat it chas veshalom!January 4, 2023 10:34 am at 10:34 am #2153835Reb EliezerParticipant
There was a question of the Satmar Rebbe above ztz’l, who should get maftir, the bar mitzva boy or the chasan? He said whoever is older.January 4, 2023 10:34 am at 10:34 am #2153834
So far the results are over 20% of the Yidden hold a bochor should be married before he’s 20 years old. And a majority hold that they should be married no later than 21 years old.January 4, 2023 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #2153909
Where are you getting your fake numbers from?
This poll shows that over two-thirds of respondents feel that bachurim should not start dating before age 21. It doesn’t reveal anything about when people feel they should be married. Unlike your multiple wives, most people don’t marry the first desperate person they meet after a five minute zoom date.
Are you still claiming to be a self-taught nuclear engineer and chip designer who gives shiurim and answers halachic queries over the phone, when basic reading comprehension and veracity is obviously beyond you?January 4, 2023 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #2153907
Lol @ joe
66% of respondents said 21+
You can look at a poll and make up whatever you wantJanuary 4, 2023 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #2153943
Also, it is very important to remember that Chazal say to be married by (not to just start dating by) age 18. And actual obligatory Halacha is that you are required to be married by age 20. The only possible exception, and only if you’re learning Torah full time, some shittos will allow you to wait up to a mandatory maximum age of 24 to be married by.January 4, 2023 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #2153940
Apologies. The poll is regarding the age to start dating, not necessarily being married by. So the comment should be that the results are over 20% of the Yidden hold a bochor should start dating by time he’s 19 years old. And a majority hold that they should start dating no later than by 21 years old.January 4, 2023 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #2153953
So despite your ceaseless harping that bachurim must be married by no later than 18, actual parents and their Poskim don’t agree with you. It’s time to stop your immature trolling.January 4, 2023 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #2153958
Name any real posek who ever said it’s okay to choose to not be married by age 24 for a Torah learner, or that it’s okay to choose to not be married by age 20 for a non-learner. Or that you don’t have to make every possible effort to be married before those ages.January 4, 2023 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #2153995
So now you’re running away from your childish trolling of age 18?
Please name the widely-followed contemporary Litvish Poskim who say that a bachur must married by 18 and include attributed quotes.January 4, 2023 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #2154011
The poll is not fully reflecting the options. I simply picked up the highest age because nothing higher was available.
The available choices may subtly influence the answers. For example, bike stores put a $1000 bike and others for $300. They really sell the $300 ones, but the buyers feel that they made a rational choice by avoiding the most expensive one.January 4, 2023 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #2154029
Dofi: Do you consider Chazal and Pirkei Avos to be childish trolls? Or do you consider them to be a bunch of grumpy old men whose ideas are outdated?January 4, 2023 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #2154068
Nope, just you. Do we wait until 15 to start learning Gemara nowadays?
After years of trolling you can’t answer the question so now you’re running scared from your own silly “psak”?January 4, 2023 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #2154098
The only correct answer is after second seder.January 5, 2023 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #2154290
The Rambam does not mention any age for one who is going to have to interrupt his learning.January 5, 2023 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #2154314
Does the Rambam mention any age for one who is going to have to interrupt a lucrative education or interrupt competing a world tour?January 8, 2023 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #2154855
The Rambam says someone who will have to interrupt his learning may delay marriage. Presumably, that means indefinitely.January 8, 2023 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #2154856
What’s a lucrative education?January 8, 2023 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #2154857
Of course we assume that the world tour isn’t bittul torah. So then marriage would be permitted if he has enough to provide for his wife until he returns. If he doesn’t he’ll marry upon his return. Whatever age that may be.January 8, 2023 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #2154858
When does the Rambam say a woman should</marry>?January 8, 2023 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #2154901
n0, I don’t know whether Gemora mentions the age, maybe it does not bother as it is understood that the girls are interested in marriage and not distracted by books or jobs. But, the impression from various halochos related to marriage creates an impression that if by the bas mitzva the girl is still in the father’s house, it is time to say tehilim. This explains why nobody was clamoring for BY high schools at that time.January 9, 2023 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #2155053
Your impression is slightly off. And then your assumption is way off as girls stayed with their families until actual marriage that took place way after kiddushin.January 9, 2023 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #2155156
there are also halochos when a girl can/needs to use birth control not to endanger her health when she is not yet ready for pregnancy. This is not an impression, pretty definite.January 9, 2023 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #2155155
“way after” – up to a year. If the chassan is not ready by the day he committed, he is paying for her mezonos, so it is pretty sure that a pre-bas-mitzva girl will be in the shver’s house within a year.
Btw, you know it is not recommended to live with your wife’s parents – as her mother may be about your age … (Rav’s words, not mine)January 11, 2023 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #2155698AvimiParticipant
Depends if dating a boy or agirl.January 12, 2023 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #2155860
“Depends if dating a boy or a girl”
Avimi: I don’t think the survey was meant to include “toevah marriage” nor are most really interested in their marital demographcis. The historical perspective in all cultures has always been a union of man and a woman. Data show much wider age variations in same-gender unions but reminder that historically, one of the original drivers was for simple legal rights for access to a partner’s hospital room and medical care and estate planning.
In the context of this thread, also recall that beginning with Covid in 2020, many chassanahs were deferred, many who did mary lived at home with one set of parents and only in the past 6-9 months began looking for housing while rental prices have soared . All factors that likely skewed the data upwards.
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