July 18, 2012 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #604158RsozMember
My good friend discovered her beloved husband was doing very questionable things on the Internet late at night after she was asleep. She has kids and feels so torn about how to handle this. She thought her husband was this very religious and upstanding man who she respected and now all that is changed. Any good advice?July 18, 2012 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #888878
Restore Shalom Bayis by speaking to their Rov and perhaps a marriage counselor.July 18, 2012 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #888879🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
In addition to her speaking to the Rav, tell her to get onto guardyoureyes.com for support and advice from experts.July 18, 2012 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #888880
do not think that a person who unfortunately fell to his taavos is no longer frum. get him help, but hes not a different person.July 18, 2012 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #888881arutz sheva is betterParticipant
Everyone has problems. Edited. some it is speaking loshen hora and some others it is not going to shul on time. Whatever it is if you look for someone perfect you will not find anyoneJuly 18, 2012 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #888882
Since this post is unlikely to contain other than the obvious, I want to introduce an element of controversy.
It is all too often that people in the frum world suggest to turn to a Rov with marital problems such as this. I find that problematic. Most Rabbonim I know, albeit well meaning, have no idea when to guide such a couple toward reconciliation or divorce. Neither do they know when to have the wife confront the husband on his behavior, or allow her to continue to monitor it, whether by making observations or snooping. Many Rabbonim will listen to one side, get “hooked”, and become oblivious to even stark facts reported by the other. The average Rov of a shul gets shell shocked when he assumes the mantle, rises to the pulpit, and discovers there is more to rabbonus than saying divrei Torah a few times a week, perhaps a daf yomi shiur, and getting honors at simchos. It can easily become a 24/7 job (yes, Rabbonim work on Shabbos) when they have to be available to counsel and guide their congregants and mispallelim through their personal difficulties. There was zero training for this in kollel!
I have learned to avoid the well intended but useless advice to contact a Rov for psychological and family problems. Without a doubt, there are some rabbonim who are astute, wise, and learned, and they may be capable of serving as personal guides for families in trouble. I also am a firm believer in ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??. Torah has the answers. To date, we have not figured out how to use Torah to determine whether a sore throat is strep or not. The Torah itself offers the advice to turn to the doctor. Mental health is no different. Our community is gifted with many frum mental health professionals who are qualified as both expert in their fields as well as yirei Hashem and bnai Torah. It is as competent for a psychologist or social worker to pasken shailos as it is for a Rov to undertake to do therapy. I know this will ruffle some feathers, but I anticipate lively and meaningful discussion.July 18, 2012 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #888883oomisParticipant
The Little I Know, you made some good points. it is one thing to ask for Daas Torah in halachic issues, but the simple fact is that not every Rov, elarned though he may be, is qualified to give personal family advice. Just as every cardiologist is brilliant in his field, but may not be qualified to be an Orthodpedist, a rov may be a great Talmid Chochom, but not have wonderful insight on severly personal matters between a husband and wife. MANY DO, but just as many do not. That is why one must be careful in seeking out such advice from a Rov who IS competent in sucvh matters, ebcause the answers still have to come under an halachic aegis.July 18, 2012 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #888884
The Chazon Ish is said to have remarked, “If you tell me that a Talmid Chochom commited an Aveira of Arayos with an Eshes Ish, I would believe it. All people are subject to strong Yitzrei ha’Ra sometimes. But if you tell me that a Talmid Chochom has bad Midos, then I would not believe it; one who learns Torah properly must be affected such that he has good Midos.” Your friends husband may very well be a fine, upstanding, frum fellow – who did not manage to stand up to a Nisayon. This can be rectified for the future by using the proper filters and programs etc. (if removal of internet from the the house is not an option). As a Rebbi of mine said, “Yichud with the internet is Asur!” Certainly she can and should seek professional help for overcoming this Nisayon of her own with the right attitude. But she should first and foremost understand that her husband is not really some “monster” whom she never really knew. He is whom he always was, and he probably needs her support now more than ever.July 18, 2012 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #888885Bless YouParticipant
Firstly, tell your friend that it’s normal for men (even married) to have the desire to look at inappropriate materials. Even the most frum men can have such a desire, and she should not think that her husband is abnormal/ weird. The problem arises (besides basic halacha) if this desire is preventing him from being a good husband and father, which may be the case here.
Second, her husband probably knows that he’s doing the wrong thing by looking at inappropriate materials, it’s just that his temptations got the better of him.
Third, if your friend is worried about her husband, she should tell him what she found and talk to him in a non threatening way. She needs to understand and clearly tell her husband that this is “his” problem which he alone must deal with and figure out how to solve.
But, it’s not her job to be his policeman and snoop on him. She should continue to love her husband (hopefully she still does) and pray that he fixes himself up (and it would be good to get rid of the internet at home) before he destroys himself or his family.July 18, 2012 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #888886
I saw a quote recently, that applies here:
“If a guy is staring at “unfiltered internet access” and eating cheeseburgers, then he is normal. If he is eating “unfiltered internet access” and staring at cheeseburgers, then he needs help.”
That being said, it certainly is an issue in a Frum relationship. Certainly don’t get the children involved (a HUGE mistake). The couple should certainly go to a Rov who is an expert in these issues. However, greater people than her husband have been Nichshal. Didn’t we hear about the “Rosh Yeshiva” in the pre-Asifa ads that was Nichshal? It doesn’t make him not a Rosh Yeshiva, it makes him a Rosh Yeshiva with a Yezter Hara.
So basically, I agree with Choppy & Toi, but was somewhat more wordy.July 18, 2012 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #888887working harderMember
I really hate being the barer of bad news but i know for a fact, there are MANY MANY, frum, yeshivish, married, husbands and fathers, that look at inappropriate things. Its a struggle for so many. The WORST thing she can do is refer to her husband as outed and not frum ect. If she thinks to herself and then makes him think that their whole marriage was built on lies and EVERYTHING has changed, i guarantee they will end up getting divorced. The BEST thing she can do is realize she doesn’t even understand the TIP of the iceberg of what goes on in a mans head and his impulses and be understanding that just because he has struggles doesn’t mean hes not a great father husband or even less jewish.July 18, 2012 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #888888crisisoftheweekMember
She should leave him…the speakers at the next “Asifa” need material to help sell web filters.July 18, 2012 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #888889abcd2Participant
First talk honestly to the husband directly as to why the spouse might feel the need to do this,(i.e. is there a distress in the married life or is it simply a taiva or a simple slide in frumkeit)
Why jump to embarrass the husband in front of the family Rov? He will be embarrassed enough as it is.
After confronting the issue the husband and wife should set up a filter. If for some reason a filter cant be had on the computer, let the spouse know for the time being you will monitor computer usage.
An essential part of this is for the husband to learn a mussar sefer 15 minutes a day (plenty are available with a good English translation) and husband and wife together should read a book on Shalom Bayis.
If the husband says this has nothing to do with the wife and is simply a taiva and hard struggle that he cant defeat on his own have him promise to speak to a well known Rav or marriage counselor that you can mutually agree upon within a short set time frame. If he fails to follow through, then speak to a Rav/counselor and make the appt.for him. You are out to help the marriage and come out stronger not to embarrass the husband.
Unnecessarily, disclosing this info to your Rav can do irreparable harm. The relationship of a husband with a Rav is very important and might make him feel ill at ease when needing support and asking halachic shailos and might even force him to switch shules.
B)Keep in mind this can be attributed to a reaction to outside stress the husband is just keeping inside,and actually happy with his relationship with his wife,and might actually need help with that stressor and the improper internet usage is a symptom resulting from that .
c) As Rabbi Reisman said by the Flatbush internet asifa, that while it is an aveira, looking at improper things on line does not mean that you need a get from your husband or that he is a rasha.
D) I assume your friend made sure that there were not teenage boys that could have been on the internet at that time.
Wishing only simchasJuly 18, 2012 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #888890MDGParticipant
I really like what Bless You has said above.
It seems to me that one other thing that she can do is to show him more love and attention. My theory is like this: he feels neglected, so he turns to imaginary companionship to fill the void. She should not make him feel bad, as that will worsen things.July 19, 2012 12:57 am at 12:57 am #888891interjectionParticipant
She needs to know that although it’s extremely unpleasant, he’s not the first one in the world to fall prey to the taavah. Even if she may not be able to fully understand the taavah, she needs to know that it is a real and tremendously difficult nisayon. She also needs to know that he did not did not get involved because he does not love her nor because of anything to do with her. She should not judge herself thinking, ‘if only I had xyz, he wouldn’t have felt the need to…’. This is his nisayon, and being that she is his partner in kedusha, she needs to stand behind him by doing whatever she can to help him realize his potential and how wonderful he is, because he can overcome this. When she does talk to him she needs to go to him with encouragement and love, and absolutely not with accusation and disrespect.
But she should not talk to a Rav unless she has spoken first to a professional. Very little will make him feel as worthless as knowing that someone else has discussed his biggest struggles (especially something so private) with someone he respects.July 19, 2012 1:44 am at 1:44 am #888892snjnMember
Just wondering if the common reaction here of giving him support and love and understanding he’s human, would also be the common reaction if it was the wife who was human and doing the same things.July 19, 2012 1:52 am at 1:52 am #888893
snjn: It depends. If she was looking at inappropriate images or even imagining incorrect things, yes, it would be the same answer. That would be the same situation as the OP, just for the wife. But if it involved certain things more than just virtual, then there is a different set of halachos how its treated by a wife versus by a husband.July 19, 2012 1:53 am at 1:53 am #888894pcozMember
Mobico – do you have a source for that Chazon Ish?July 19, 2012 5:48 am at 5:48 am #888895interjectionParticipant
snjn: Women tend to blame themselves when others make mistakes, that they think somehow it’s their fault. Men, on the other hand, tend to see it more from a logical perspective (sometimes with less tolerance than the woman).
The ultimate decision a man or wife would have to make, would be same (if all else were equal). Only his approach would have to be different.July 19, 2012 7:26 am at 7:26 am #888896
Rsoz – One of the reasons the Maschiach of Lakewood was one of the organizers of the Asifa is because e/o who caught anyone (spouse, friend, etc.) looking at improper things went running to him screaming about it.
The point of my post is Not that these people shouldn’t seek help either by a Rov (if the Rov can handle psych issues) or by a therapist, but why has Shmiras Eneyim become the scorge of the Frum world? I don’t think this has anything to do with Frumkeit because when was the last time a spouse went running to a Maschiach screaming -“All my spouse does all day is speak LH”?
I never heard anyone do this yet and some people just speak LH all day and n/o cares.
I think that a spouse thinks some sort of ineptness as the reason behind this problem. They think somehow they are at fault. Whether this sometimes can be the case, it most definitely isn’t always the case. So in a way, making an Asifa and screaming about it – might stop some people, in others there is a psych issue going on by both spouses. In one spouse, there is the addiction. And in the other there is the inadequacy. So if people only get from the Asifa that this is a Frum issue – there might be an increase in marital discord and subsequently divorce.
I think by and far most cases of internet problems are rooted in psych problems and we need to address this. How about getting mental health prof. to see people in every Frum community with this problem for free (pro-bono)? I think putting Jewish money into this aspect is worth more than what they are doing with the money -Ichud Kehillos setting up filter/internet solutions in every community. This would do more to solve the problem than people getting up on their soap-box screaming -“Shaigetz!”July 19, 2012 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #888898
Another few lessons are in order.
For men, looking at inappropriate material is yetzer horah, following the lure of taavah. For the wife of this man, it is infidelity. We can debate the accuracy of her perception, but that’s how it is. Hubby needs help in restructuring his life to become one of kedusha, and wifey needs to recognize that her husband is not perfect. He’s human, not a malach.
Finding the Rov who is expert in these matters is actually a formidable task. Most rabbonim I know (quite a few from many different circles) know close to nothing about this. They can often cite the words of our great baalei mussar, but they have no clue about how to help an individual apply them to his life. Here is where the professionals come in. It is often that a team approach with the Rov and the therapist provides the benefit of both.
I have watched with horror how the average Rov will deal with breaches of “kedusha”. Most will become disciplinary and spout the admonitions to refrain from such illicit behaviors and thoughts. These approaches are totally ineffective, and are exactly what the Mesilas Yeshorim refers to when he notes that ineffective discipline does not fulfill the mitzvah of ???? ????? ?? ?????. If the individual who succumbed to this taavah is a yeshiva bochur who was “caught”, there are substantial chances that he will be expelled from yeshiva, citing the often fictitious excuse that he will destroy the rest of the yeshiva. This approach destroys, without leaving room for building anything. ??? ??? ???? ???? ????. Just a small amount of light will eliminate much darkness. The ????? of indulgence in these problems does not prevent ????? ??????. We are told that Hashem is ????? ??? ???? ???????, that He still dwells among us even in our state of ?????. Someone who can engage the ????? needs to be emraced and helped, not chased away. Our greatest gedolim were far more worried about a ??? ???? than the ??? ????. The latter does not prevent the presence of the ?????, the former does.
Men use imagery all the time, and struggle with it all the time. That is the nisayon granted to every Jewish male. Instead of using ineffective punishment and discipline, let’s work at making one’s life imbued with kedusha, such that there is no room available for the negative stuff. Picking up a mussar sefer is great, but only in a manner that the individual relates to it personally, not the academics.
It is important to note that men who look where they should not are not indicating that their marriages are lacking in intimacy or emotional closeness. They are just, er, men. The wives cannot “repair” this problem by being more attentive, etc. It is not their issue, nor is it an issue that reflects a deficiency on the part of the wives. The shalom bayis matter is a product of the problem, not a cause. This is one area where the average Rov will likely misjudge the situation, and address it from a wrong angle. Yes, each situation is different. But the general direction is easily bungled. Keep the professionals in the picture – they have much to contribute.July 19, 2012 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #888899MorahRachMember
It is not as simple as saying you need to try and show him more love. BH I have never been in this situation and clearly neither have any of you. If you ” caught” your husband doing inappropriate things on the Internet, it would not be that simple. Even if the root cause is not because he has lost his attraction to you, you are bound to feel that way. And to say it doesn’t make him “not frum” would you say the same about someone who occasionally eats at burger king but tries to stop. I just think it is more complicated than you are all making it seem.July 19, 2012 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #888900snjnMember
I know there are different halachos for men and women who commit adultery. This is different; it’s viewing inappropriate content online. For all the men who were so understanding that’s he’s human, deserves support, and probably was lonely to start with, would they feel the same way if it was their wife who did this. Me thinks not!July 19, 2012 1:38 pm at 1:38 pm #888901PosterMember
Does anyone have TAG hotline phone number?July 19, 2012 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #888902TheGoqParticipant
“there are MANY MANY, frum, yeshivish, married, husbands and fathers, that look at inappropriate things”
Wow even heilege married people have taivos? wow (insert sarcasm here).July 19, 2012 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #888903
I know there are different halachos for men and women who commit adultery. This is different; it’s viewing inappropriate content online. For all the men who were so understanding that’s he’s human, deserves support, and probably was lonely to start with, would they feel the same way if it was their wife who did this. Me thinks not!
I would not feel the same way about a woman.
I would not even suggest that they go to a Rov. There is (mostly) no problem with her viewing such images, and I would not consider it to be an issue with someone’s marriage. As everyone said, this is a Halacha issue, not an infidelity issue.July 19, 2012 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #888904
And to say it doesn’t make him “not frum” would you say the same about someone who occasionally eats at burger king but tries to stop.
How about someone who speaks Lashon Hara occasionally but tries to stop? Talks during Davening?
“If You Only Knew the Power of the Dark Side”.July 19, 2012 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #888905working harderMember
once again wonderful words of wisdom from “The Goq”July 19, 2012 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #888906
Neither a man or woman viewing these things means automatic divorce, and, although (sorry feminists in here. actually, no im not) its definitely worse from a halachic perspective for a man to be doing that, i think it signifies a much bigger and deeper problem in a lady. vidoik.July 19, 2012 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #888907repharimMember
*The solution is incredible simple.*
The wife simply needs to lay down the law. Install an internet filter, password it – do not give him the password. If a page he needs to go to doesn’t load – give him access to that page and only that page alone.
Sometimes you need to be clever against the Satan, an internet filter is your solution.
As a side note – tell him to stop looking at every woman he see’s on the street. It takes a lot of effort and time but this is how you help prevent one thing leading to another. As it says in mesilas yesharim, we cannot alone win against the satan. “Brute” strength against him is impossible, we need to be clever, *and* we need to constantly ask Hashem for help in fighting him, doing it together is the only way.July 19, 2012 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #888909TheGoqParticipant
Wow thank you working harder!July 19, 2012 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #888910
GAW -“How about someone who speaks Lashon Hara occasionally but tries to stop? Talks during Davening?”
Good point. Our generation has taken every Nisayon and put it in black and white terms. You eat Traif once in awhile -“You’re a Goy”! You look at inappropriate things – “You’re a Goy”!
You speak LH -“Ok, we’ll look the other way!” You smoke -“Ok, we’ll look the other way!” I could go on and on -there are many examples.
Now, I’m not going into why we do this here -this alone is an extremely big topic -perhaps rooted in Sinas Chinum.
My point here is that whether it’s smoking or whether it’s looking at inappropriate things, by and far most Frum people do this because of some underlying psych issue. The leaders have Not even begun to deal with this issue, let alone remove the Stigma that the Frum community has against people seeking Mental Health help!July 19, 2012 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #888911yichusdikParticipant
Though there are a number of people who have weighed in on this who I disagree with (often) on other threads, I have to say I am impressed with their rational and compassionate approach to this issue. Yasher Koach Toi, Health, Choppy, GAW and others.July 19, 2012 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #888912
Internet access can be controlled in three ways.
1. Total ban. Highly advised for all households, but not always possible or practical.
2. Filtered. There are many filters available. If parents have the passwords to suspend, they are themselves at risk. Not all filters are good for our purposes, as standards vary from one company to the next. Overly restrictive filters may actually prevent needed access to the web. There is a degree of individual decision to be made here, and having guidance from a posek is recommended (or required).
3. Monitored. There is software that keeps track of computer activity, particularly internet activity. Any sites that are considered questionable are flagged, and the report is sent, usually weekly, to a designated monitor. This creates the technological ??? ???? that is demanded in ???? ???? as part of our emunah in Hashem. Thus, even what passes a filter is flagged and exposed to an outsider. It is recommended by professionals everywhere that a wife not be her husband’s monitor (or vice versa). There is a Rov in New York that does not permit unmonitored internet access among his mispallelim. He receives a few hundred reports weekly.
The professionals I know all suggest monitors as stronger than filters, but also suggest filters anyway.
For those coping with someone who is surfing the wrong places on the web, recognize that these aveiros occur in a ?? ???? ?? ?????, in other words, in a mind empty of the proper things that should be occupying it. It is better to view the individual who has fallen prey to this problem as having a sickness, not an evil person. He is not cheating on his wife; he is cheating on his ????. He needs help, not ?????. Test this. It works.July 19, 2012 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #888913ohr chodeshMember
A wife is not, and should not attempt to become, her husband’s mashgiach. Leave it to the Rov or Rosh Yeshiva.July 19, 2012 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #888914
Interjection – sorry – it is only mi’Pi ha’Shemu’a (from a good source, but still).
IMHO, if a woman were looking at such things the reaction would certainly be different – because women are different than men. Most women would not have such a drive, and therefore if she shows one it would be a red flag of a different sort – one that is less common and more worrisome. I certainly would not advocate less support, however.July 20, 2012 12:35 am at 12:35 am #888915BustercrownParticipant
Hi all. I am the person this thread was started about. Thanks a lot for all the good advice and thoughts. It was all very helpful but the main problem is I was tolls by a very prominent gadol not to tell my husband what I found on his co outer because he will be so filled with feeling of shame that he will see now way out but leaving the marriage. I told him in a general way that he uses computer too much , mostly at night and for too long and that it seems to me it became an addiction. He will not get help. He refuses. I am feeling like I lost my best friend, the person who was my partner, the man I trusted. I am devastated. I cannot look at him in the same way anymore. He told me lies to continue his bad habit. I always looked at him as a very honest person. Now I don’t. I was told these addictions make them lie to cover itup but that isn’t helping me to feel better. Thank you everyone here for caring and supporting me with your words.July 20, 2012 1:25 am at 1:25 am #888916
Speak to your family Rov. Speaking to a Rov is most vital. And if, and only if, it is necessary to see a therapist, make sure you vet the therapist with the Rov. Too many therapists can do a lot more damage than good.July 20, 2012 1:42 am at 1:42 am #888917RSRHMember
Bustercrown: Sorry to say,but you got some really, really bad advice from whichever Rav you spoke to. Frankly, he seems to know very little about dealing with marital issues, addiction, pornography, or all three.
Of course you need to tell him you know. As it stands now, he is trying to avoid getting caught, so he lies. You become upset by his lying when you know the truth, and he is likely angry at himself for lying to you, but he can’t see another option. Continuing like this is a recipe for disaster and added tension and animosity.July 20, 2012 3:43 am at 3:43 am #888918jbaldy22Member
@repharim absolutely nothing that you suggested is actually helpful. a rav or psychologist’s guidance is required in such a case as many of the posters have already said. vihmayvin yavin. i agree very strongly with ohr chodosh laying down the law will do no good only harm and will not even solve the issue at hand.July 20, 2012 7:27 am at 7:27 am #888919
cant we address the issue here without any 9 year olds learning new words? come on people.July 20, 2012 8:25 am at 8:25 am #888920
Bustercrown – I agree that you can’t do nothing. I can’t see how this would make the situation anything but worse. Perhaps you should not be the one to confront him at first, but SOMEONE MUST. I will say that I am a husband whose wife a while back realized that I was looking at things that I shouldn’t. Without giving too much away, let me just say that due to who I am and who she knows me to be, she was shocked and very angry. She confronted me, and I was humiliated. However, it has changed my life for the better, and I am grateful to her. We have B”H had a strong marriage, and while this tested it, it is B”H stronger than ever. She didn’t attack me personally, but expressed her shock, disappointment, and anger quite clearly. I now know that I can enlist her help to do the things that I may be too weak to do on my own. I can’t promise that your husband will have the same reaction, but trying to hint around and leaving it unaddressed will simply make the situation fester and worsen – on both sides. Please ask another person with Da’as Torah, whom you trust, for a second opinion.July 20, 2012 8:29 am at 8:29 am #888921
choppy -“Speak to your family Rov. Speaking to a Rov is most vital. And if, and only if, it is necessary to see a therapist, make sure you vet the therapist with the Rov. Too many therapists can do a lot more damage than good.”
I disagree. Obvious from a lot of Rabbonim’s view from the Asifa -these guys are just Goyim. How would going to most Rabbonim do anything besides cause a divorce?
Therapy, except for possibly a tiny amt. of Rabbonim is the only solution.July 20, 2012 8:30 am at 8:30 am #888922
Again, if you have a good relationship, it’s hard to understand why your husband’s first reaction would be to bolt it. Here’s an idea – why not show him this thread?July 20, 2012 8:49 am at 8:49 am #888923
Buster -“It was all very helpful but the main problem is I was tolls by a very prominent gadol not to tell my husband what I found on his co outer because he will be so filled with feeling of shame that he will see now way out but leaving the marriage.”
I’m not going to argue with the Godol like some posters here did.
To me this isn’t your job (discussing where he is going on the Net with him). Quite frankly, you have to get him into therapy. Make an appt. for him and tell him simply -“I made an appt. for you with so and so because you are addicted to the Net and if you don’t go -I am leaving.”
But you must be prepared to act upon your threat. Empty threats do more harm than good. Personally, I think spouses should do this for other addictions too, like smoking – instead of making excuses for them.
Is the guy “Crazy” for going to these places on the Net? No. Does the spouse have to just “let it be” and ignore what’s happenning? No. G-luck.July 20, 2012 9:50 am at 9:50 am #888924wishihadmoretimeMember
Buster , i feel so sorry for you, most of the advice i can give you cannot be posted here, i have known many good people some of them in even in full time learning that fell to schmutz , its something that women cannot understand that once a man falls deep into it , its so hard to get out of it. Your Rav has a good point if you approach him directly he may get too embarresed and run away from marriage, but if you dont “force him out of it” you wont succeed in stoping him and you will get too angry at him to also continue your marriage. Its a sickness and it doesnt mean he doesnt like you by the fact he watches this. first stage is you have to somehow get the computer out of the house(blame the kids blame yourself ) it will be very hard because if he thinks you dont know what is going on he wont want to get rid of it or stop what he is doing -its an addiction, you have to keep him busy that he wont have extra time on computer. you have to mention it to him that you heard there is a problem with men even good frum ones that “fall” into looking at bad things on net(you can mention articles bina and mishpacha etc) but nothing directly like you are suspecting him. show him how upset you would be if he would do this(but say im sure you dont) it may shake him up a drop and with you trying to cut him down on compuiter it may make a change, and once again there are other things to do also but not for a public fourm . good luck.July 20, 2012 11:45 am at 11:45 am #888925tdsdartMember
The question to go to a Rav or not to go to a Rav needs to be looked at from another angle. You do not go to a Rav for counseling most of the time. While some are very good at it others are not. You go for 2 reasons. 1 is to get a recommendation for a good counselor. Finding the right therapist is a must because you need someone who will understand your hashafa and background and not do too much damage. Too many non frum or non Jewish therapists see this as a not issue and will not take it seriously.
My friend and her husband are still together. Most people who go through this do not make it. What healing will require is total honesty. No, the wife should not become the mashgiach and check up on him. What she has to do is make a culture of safety for him to come to her when he slips. And he does need to go to therapy to deal with these issues. Many times there are underlying issues like compulsive lying and a need to make yourself feel more powerful. It can work and they can have a happy marriage again. But only if the husband is totally honest and willing to work at itJuly 20, 2012 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #888926zahavasdadParticipant
I agree do NOT confront him, it might make matters worse.
It bothers you, so its an issue, Here is what I would do. You sort of need to figure out if he looks at it alot or stumbled upon it or looks occasionaly,
This is what I would do. Tell your whole family you are installing Guard your Eyes, Everyone will monitor everyones internet use. Say it applies to you, your husband and all the kids.. Do NOT say any more.
Either one of 2 things will happend, He will stop all by himself or you will figure out how often he looks at it. If he looks at it alot, I think you will need to see a therapist more, if He stops problem solved and no harm done.July 20, 2012 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #888927
You are so wrong it is pitiful. I do not fault rabbonim for their intentions. They mean well. But, as another commenter here noted, the average Rov is hopelessly uninformed about the entire subject. I cannot even describe the horrors I witnessed firsthand from well meaning rabbonim in cases involving addictions, marital problems, and exactly this question of husbands on the internet. It is frightening to place faith in the uninformed. I am a really nice guy, but do not ask me to repair your car, plumbing, or do electrical work. Nor do I pasken shailos. I am not qualified. The average Rov is not qualified to practice the counseling profession. That is a fact that is not debatable. Some accumulate some experience over time, and may be perhaps better than others. Still others undergo training. But the woeful situation of marital problems submitted to the average Rov is too painful to watch.
There are good therapists, and there are bad ones. Many are pushed to practice in areas outside of their specialty, and they can actually do damage. But the professions are generally safe in guiding their flocks to maintain ethical codes that require them to stick with their areas of expertise and refer those outside them to others.
Your broad brush about therapists is simply untrue. With the greatest of respect, I would say that most rabbonim are not qualified to counsel a marriage in trouble, nor addictions, nor other psychological problems. I know they wish to help, and I am a firm believer that the Torah has the answers. But we have not been zocheh to find specific directions in the heilige Torah. That is why we are told, ???? ???? ???? ????? ??????.July 20, 2012 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #888928
cant we address the issue here without any 9 year olds learning new words? come on people.
Agreed. I’m surprised that wasn’t edited, and ask that it should be. Use a euphemism.
Bustercrown: Use the recent Asifa as an excuse to get monitoring software on your computer. Set up two programs, one that sends to you and one to him (separately), so that each of you gets a full copy and neither of you can erase any activity.
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