December 10, 2009 1:25 am at 1:25 am #590940
If you are looking for a shidduch everyone always says call the shadchan. That does seem work in the more “yeshivish” crowd (aka…..learning boys). However, the more “modern” boys (aka…the ones with a college degree)don’t go to shadchanim in their 20’s. I spoke to many people who are very involved with shidduchim and they all say that the working guys in their 20’s just don’t come to them. They have many girls in their 20’s and no one to match them with. the guys only go to shadchanim in the 30’s.December 10, 2009 2:45 am at 2:45 am #669989
If someone wants to go out with one of these guys, maybe they can ask a cousin or an older brother if they know a good working guy for them?December 10, 2009 2:58 am at 2:58 am #669990
To happy girl
Feel free to browse our website http://www.shidduchworld.org we have many working boys on our site.
The site is free of charge however you have to be a member in order to get the full profile of other singles.
ThanksDecember 10, 2009 4:24 am at 4:24 am #669991baltashchisParticipant
Shidduchworld is a great site. I would reccomend you look at it. You never know what you’ll find there. They are constantly updating. Good luck!!December 10, 2009 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #669992
As a working guy in my 20’s who is not quite yeshivish or modern I can tell you that although I have gone to a shadchan before (and probably will again) I prefer not to. In my case it seemed like the shadchan was basing who he set up by his opinions of them based on a five minute meeting and with no real knowledge of them. I’m not saying he was a bad guy but I think the system is inefficient and I’d rather be set up by someone who really knows me and the girl. Just b/c I’m working and a girl is looking for a working guy doesn’t mean were perfect for each other. I think the idea behind Shidduchworld is a good one that should be expanded to include more detailed information and there needs to be a way for it to work with all willing shadchanim so there will be more singles listed.December 10, 2009 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #669993justin2Member
I agree for the most part with youdontknowme. Personally, I’ve never met with a shadchun, and usually disregard the ideas I do get from them. That said, I prefer to be set up by my friends/their wives, who know the girl and myself better than a random stranger.December 10, 2009 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #669994
I agree…technically, it does makes more sense to be set up by someone you know but that leaves out a lot of girls who just don’t happen to know the “right” people and get left behind. That also limits both parties in way. The other option is a singles event but how many guys out there take them seriously? I dated a few guys who said they use singles events as “comedy clubs” to see all the “poor” girls out there and then they talk about it with their friends and have a good laugh. (btw, those guys did not get a second date from me!!)I know there are great guys out there but why are they so hard to find?????December 10, 2009 10:08 pm at 10:08 pm #669995shaindelMember
It makes sense that the best shidduchim are from people you know. There’s a great way to make shidduchim through shidduch meetings it gives people an opportunity to present different singles and come up with good shidduchim! The whole idea is you join a meeting of 20-40 ladies all devoted to spend time for making shidduchim. You describe a single you know and someone there is bound to know of someone or someone’s relative that could be suitable. It really works!!!!December 10, 2009 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #669996
Happy girl: I agree with you which is why I’m willing to deal with a shadchan on occasion. I just think that there needs to be a better way for a shadchan to match people up. It would be cool to have a database system (kind of like shidduch world) that had a questionnaire singles would fill out and it would automatically find potential matches for them on a continuing basis until they mark themselves as unavailable. The hard part is deciding what questions to put on it b/c everyone has different opinions of what’s important. Maybe you could have a basic section and the questions you’ll be asked next will depend on your answers, so a working boy may get one set of questions and a learning boy another.
“I dated a few guys who said they use singles events as “comedy clubs” to see all the “poor” girls out there and then they talk about it with their friends and have a good laugh.”
Wow, so not only were they total jerks but they didn’t even try to hide it, you were right to get rid of them. It is true that there are some great guys out there but honestly IMO not that many, I consider myself to be the best guy I know and I’m not that great, JK (sort of). So if you do meet one you like do yourself a favor and don’t stop going out with him over something stupid.December 10, 2009 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #669997shaindelMember
Ideally a shidduch database could work but I wonder how many people put themselves on it?December 11, 2009 12:55 am at 12:55 am #669998
Ideally a shidduch database could work but I wonder how many people put themselves on it?
That’s my problem with Shidduch World, it’s a great concept and hopefully it will help people but I think it needs to be on a much larger scale. For it to be really useful it would have to become the new “normal” thing to do when looking for a shidduch. I think it could be done in a short amount of time by making the website more shadchan friendly so they will ask everyone who comes to them for a shidduch to register on the database. I think the major obstacle an idea like this faces is who gets paid when a shidduuch is made this way but it can be worked out if someone is willing to put the time in.December 11, 2009 1:22 am at 1:22 am #669999
what is shidduch world adding that SYAS does not already have to offer? will this just cause singles to split into 2 sites? I’m not saying that shidduch world is not a great site with a great idea but since we already have a site like SYAS with so many people on it why not brainstorm together and incorporate the great ideas from each site to one great site. this way all singles will be on one site and the database will we huge. work with what we already have and maybe we can make a great site even better!!!December 11, 2009 1:36 am at 1:36 am #670000
Maybe people should recommend shidduch world to friends or family who are looking for shidduchim. That way they could grow by word of mouth.December 11, 2009 2:48 am at 2:48 am #670001baltashchisParticipant
Shidduch World is different than SYAS because they check into every person before allowing a profile to become visible. Everyone working in Shidduch World or on it is on volunteer basis. There is no charge to post your name or register. There are no Shaddchan fees. Their only charge is if you get engaged through one of their Shaddchonim. You will be asked to pay the going Shaddchunus rate. You have nothing to lose. By the way you can’t be on their site if you are not Shomer Nigiah or Shabbos.December 11, 2009 4:57 am at 4:57 am #670002
To all those that inquired about Shidduch World
We do have Shaddchanim that work on our data base. However, in order to become a Shaddchan for our site, Shidduch World, you must submit to us the names of at leat two or three Shidduchim you have completed. We also require references that know the Shaddchan applying, (such as a Rov) that can testify for them that they will keep everthing confidential. The shaddchan also has to commit to work a minimum amount of hours a week, even though they are just volunteers. After Shidduch World’s staff has approved the shaddchan he/she must sign a confidentiality agreement and submit a log of Shidduchim that they worked with or tried on a monthly basis. This is to ensure that the site is not being used for ones curiosity.
We are working on getting more Shaddchanim to work with our site, however many do not qulify for various reasons.
In regard to happy girls question as to what makes Shidduch World different then SYAS: No single on Shidduch Worlds site can contact another single without going through a Shaddchan ( at least before the first date or two) unlike other websites that singles can meet, chat, and or date without going through a Shaddchan. We go through each persons profile individually, at Shidduch World, in order to assure that our site is appropriate and fit to be called a “FRUM ONLY WEBSITE”.
Thanks for asking,December 11, 2009 9:37 am at 9:37 am #670003
Shidduch Solution: It’s good that you are willing to work with Shaddchanim, that was not clear to me from looking through your website. The other suggestion I have is to add some more detailed questions so you can get a better idea of what someone is really like. As far as the difference between SYAS and Shidduch World goes, from browsing the two websites it seems that neither of them allow singles to connect without a Shaddchan. I’m sure there are other differences but they seem like fairly similar sites.December 13, 2009 5:14 am at 5:14 am #670004
The reason we don’t post about the option of becoming a Shaddchan is so that we don’t have people applying just for their curiosity. We are careful to respect our profiles confidentiality. We do have legitimate Shaddchanim working with the profiles on our site.
In regard to other websites if you look better into the questions we ask you will see that we are targeting a very frum crowd. We don’t have questions such as if you plan to cover your hair or if the boys Daven 3 times a day. All websites that help Shidduchim are great and they should all be looked at in a positive way. We all have one goal in common, to help out all those seeking to find their zivug.
Shidduch World StaffDecember 13, 2009 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #670006bombmaniacParticipant
that is such a disgusting thing to say! please keep your immaturity at bay…a shadchan fee is standard and quite mandatory! who cares if its from a web site or a person? it is still owed!December 13, 2009 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #670007
ok, this shidduch world debate should really be on the topic (already created on YW) called “shidduch world” This thread was not created in support of or against shidduch world….Lets not go off topic, it was created with one question:
Why do guys only go to shaddchanim in their 30’s and 40’s and not their 20’s? Girls in their 20’s go to shaddchanim the shadchanim only have a one or two guys to give them. These shadchanim recycle those one or two poor guys to all the girls on their list whether or not it seems like a good match (no wonder the guys can’t stand shadchanim!)If more guys would go to shaddchanim this problem would be solved. I know shidduch world and other internet dating sites might be one solution but I have a feeling that the same guys who don’t go to shaddchanim will not go online either.December 14, 2009 1:47 am at 1:47 am #670008
So long as the numbers are skewed strongly in favor of the boys why in the world should they go to shadchanim. They have plenty of names to chose from without going to shadchanim. The girls have no choice – so they do whatever the can get a date.
Even out the numbers = Even out the playing field = boys will start going to shadchanim just like the girls and solve a host of other problems at the same time.
Progress is being made B”H but their remains a long way to go.December 14, 2009 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #670010tzippiMember
AZ, boys ARE going to some shadchanim. The shadchanim have lists of boys – where are they getting them from? And I’ve heard that part of the entrance procedure for BMG is meeting a shadchan.December 14, 2009 3:37 pm at 3:37 pm #670011
Happy Girl & AZ:
A lot of boys do not go to shadchanim because most come away with a disgusting feeling. I personally do not go to shadchanim. However, every time one of my friends goes to one they call me up and complain that it was the most demeaning encounter they ever have had. They come back feeling like they were stripped down, examined, and then thrown in to a dark place somewhere. The swear that they lost 15 minutes or half an hour of their life which they will never get back. This gets around to all the other boys and we avoid that shadchan (and this happens almost to every single one).
Perhaps if shadchanim do not turn the meeting into a butcher sale where they poke and proud the meat then maybe more boys would come to meet them.December 14, 2009 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #670012anon for thisParticipant
JAW22, I’m married and didn’t deal with a “shadchan meeting” (my employer arranged my shidduch with someone he knew), but from what I’ve read and heard many young women report similar experiences with shadchan meetings. Because the young women feel this is the only way to find a shidduch, they allow themselves to be subjected to this anyways.December 14, 2009 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #670013
I guess us boys show some backbone in something. Maybe if we can get the girls to stop going to shadchanim maybe we can end this “crisis” and truly get people married.December 14, 2009 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #670014bombmaniacParticipant
i agree…my grandparents for example didnt have a shadchan…my grandmother was my grandfather’s secretary, and he just walked in one day holding a ring and said “what would you say if i asked you to marry me ?” and (after consulting with her mother of course…) she agreed, and they were married for 47 years…imagine if she had said “no there was no shadchan present…” what then?December 14, 2009 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #670015
so, in general, do you think that the same guys who would not go to a shadchan would not go online either?December 14, 2009 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #670016
The overwhelmings number of shidduchim are not made by shadchanim. They are made by friends neighbors etc. Due to the inexquity of numbers the boys by and large have many shidduch opportunities (obviously there are exceptions but by and large) and therefore have no major need to go to shsadchanim they do not know.
The girls and their their parents are pulling their hair out and they will go to anyone and everyone in the hopes that it will result in a solid suggestion + a yes from a boy and hopefully a mazal tov.
JW22: I’m not sure what circles you are in but the boys by and large are getting married and they are getting married quickly. A study of Boys HS makes this point clearly. It is not yet complete but unless something changes drastically in the few schools that have not yet been vetted it will clear for all to see. The comparison of Boys alumni dating 5-10 years and still single vs. Girls alumni dating 5=10 years and still single is staggering. Stay tuned…..December 15, 2009 12:08 am at 12:08 am #670017
Yes, the good guys get married right away. Someone once told me that their are more good girls out there than there are good boys (a ratio of 10:1). Therefore, there are not enough good guys to match the good girls. So yes, there are the same “number” of girls and boys out there. So what happens to the guys once they get older and are not married? well, they become less frum, drink alcohol, do drugs, become lax in halacha with girls, become lax in kosher…they move out of their parents home and blend into the western world. And there you go, one more jewish male neshama lost and one more jewish female neshama who will not get married because her bashert decided to go off the derech….December 15, 2009 1:04 am at 1:04 am #670018justin2Member
The guys who won’t go to a shadchun probably/pos forsure would not go “online” either. In my experience guys are more willing to go to a shadchun then to go “online.”
AZ: it seems like “age gap” is the answer to all the world’s problems.December 15, 2009 2:18 am at 2:18 am #670019
Okay, so if I would have a daughter that is in high school I would make sure that she starts going out as soon as she is 17 with guys that are between the ages of 20-25. That way she’ll actually have a shot at getting married since she will have a head start.December 15, 2009 8:02 am at 8:02 am #670020rebetzinParticipant
happy girl, I don’t know the numbers, but the same thing happens to some girls too. In fact I would think it’s more likely to happen to a girl who is working out there in the non-Jewish world than her counterpart living in the yeshiva dorm.December 15, 2009 12:31 pm at 12:31 pm #670021
justin2: If you meant to say
“it seems like age gap IS the BEST and MOST EFFECTIVE answer to the Jewish Orthodox worlds Shidduch problems”,
then you would be correct.December 15, 2009 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #670022AZOI.ISParticipant
So long as the numbers are skewed strongly in favor of the boys why in the world should they go to shadchanim. They have plenty of names to chose from without going to shadchanim. The girls have no choice – so they do whatever the can get a date.
Yes, true, whether fellow CR mates agree or not.
So what happens to the guys once they get older and are not married? well, they become less frum, drink alcohol, do drugs, become lax in halacha with girls, become lax in kosher…they move out of their parents home …..
Not neccesarily, the unmarried guys, as they age, often just want a more modern lifestyle including TV and Movies and a more cool, possibly less Tzniusdik girl. Few go to the lengths you describe.
Okay, so if I would have a daughter that is in high school I would make sure that she starts going out as soon as she is 17 with guys that are between the ages of 20-25. That way she’ll actually have a shot at getting married since she will have a head start.
No way. Maybe in Sephardic or Chassidic circles, a 17 year old is desirable, but in the Yeshivish world, a girl has to provide means of support, meaning either a rich Dad or an education. In the college world, few if any guys will go out with an not-yet educated girl.December 15, 2009 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #670023
So I guess its a good thing that I’m sephardic. Besides in mexico the girls do begin to date at 16-17 even the Ashkenaz. If the parents see a guy they like for their daughter (kollel or working , FFB or BT .they don’t care because since the community is so small they know the family) they make the shidduch.December 15, 2009 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #670024gavra_at_workParticipant
“Not neccesarily, the unmarried guys, as they age, often just want a more modern lifestyle including TV and Movies and a more cool, possibly less Tzniusdik girl. Few go to the lengths you describe.”
And the girls are not willing to go out with such a boy, it seems. The girls stick to their ideals, and because of it, can’t find a boy?
Is this a crisis or a matter of choice?December 15, 2009 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #670025samzyrMember
the problem with guys till the age of thirty dont take shidduchim into their own hands so they dont go to a shaddchan. girls parents are the one that set them up on dates and set up meetings by a shaddchan.
and for boys not foing on the internet so there parents can fill out there info on shidduch world for them. or a friend a sister or someone that cares for them.December 15, 2009 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #670026
Most of the working guys when they get older, tend not to want to sit around after work. We tend to go out and relax after a long day of work. If this means that we watch a movie or TV or go someplace with friends then so be it. This does not make us less frum.
It seems to me what you are describing “they become less frum, drink alcohol, do drugs, become lax in halacha with girls, become lax in kosher” are high school kids that are rebelling.
Furthermore, most men who are older and are working usually DO move out of their parents house, not because of rebelling or as such but because they want to live on their own and have their own life. Most working boys are mature, logical, and have long term goals set, not like “just married” couples at the age of 21 or younger, or boys still learning in kollel, who are still relying on their parents.December 15, 2009 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #670027
three words: UPPER WEST SIDE
yes, thats what happens to the good girls and good boys who get older…unfortuatelyDecember 15, 2009 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #670028
You call it “unfortunate”. I call it fortunate. This allows the men and women to interact with their contemporaries and meet people without having any stigma attached to them. In the UWS there is a diverse number of people. You have from “blackhatters” straight through the MO crowed. And no one judges anyone based on where they stand in regards to religion or views of the world.
Again, most do not “become less frum, drink alcohol, do drugs, become lax in halacha with girls, become lax in kosher”. This generalization of the UWS is similar to saying that all Jews cheat (which I hope is erroneous even in light of the current events of the past year).December 15, 2009 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #670029ronrsrMember
<<<So I guess its a good thing that I’m sephardic. Besides in mexico the girls do begin to date at 16-17 even the Ashkenaz. If the parents see a guy they like for their daughter (kollel or working , FFB or BT .they don’t care because since the community is so small they know the family) they make the shidduch.<<<
and do you have a shidduch crisis there?December 15, 2009 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #670030
I don’t know if there is a crisis. There are some people who are not married yet for various reasons, maybe they lack looks, family, money, or a prestigious name. Sometimes they are really too picky and once they realize that and lower their expectations and are open to more options its easier for them to find someone. But I cannot say all cases are the same because it wouldn’t be fair.December 15, 2009 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #670031oomisParticipant
happygirl, with all due respect, do you really believe what you wrote? Doesn’t that sound a bit like L”H to you, or motzi shem ra on the older singles? Not being married does not equal being less frum. And it certainly does not automatically lead to the “dire” consequences you mention. There are many VERY frum older singles who are just as frum as they were in their very early twenties. They may be disappointed, but they do not throw off the Torah because of that disappointment. SOME might, but wouldn’t you agree it is a little unfair to make a blanket statement like that about older singles in general?December 16, 2009 1:33 am at 1:33 am #670032
ok, your right. sorry. no loshon lorah intended and I never said those bad things happens to ALL the people on the UWS or ALL older singles in general. There must be some serious people on the UWS but the truth is that it’s NOT the overwelming majority. It’s just the way it is. Someone who lives on the UWS told me that statement….and he lives there claiming he is the ONE exception to that statement.
As far as getting more modern as you get older: Again, it does not and should not happen to everyone but it does happens to enough people to be an eye opener and become something to ponder about. As far as moving out of your parents house when you get older….sometimes the circumstances call for it but due to the freadom and independence people become more “carefree.” Some…NOT all. but it happens to enough people to ponder about…December 16, 2009 4:13 am at 4:13 am #670033
“As far as getting more modern as you get older: Again, it does not and should not happen to everyone but it does happens to enough people to be an eye opener and become something to ponder about.”
Sure some singles get more modern as they get older, in my case people observing me (without really knowing me) might think I’ve gotten more modern. I watch more movies and TV than I did when I was younger and other things like that but as a whole as I’ve gotten older and more mature I would say I’ve become a better person and Jew than I used to be. I also have a lot of friends who were more modern when we were younger and became more frum as they grew up. It goes both ways.December 16, 2009 4:39 am at 4:39 am #670034mazal77Participant
I just want to know why there are always more girls to boys at the singles events. My realitive who went to a recent singles event told me there where about 60 boys and over a hundred girls. Also, she said there were still many girls who wanted to attend and were placed on waiting lists and still could not go.
My husband’s good friend, a single man, also told us, at the single events he goes to, there are always more girls then boys. The events are always trying to find boys to attend these events, yet they have no problem finding girls to come and even have to turn the girls away, from these events.
So, where are the boys??December 16, 2009 5:52 am at 5:52 am #670035potsandpansMember
…probably off somewhere wondering where the girls are??
I think i have another possible solution to help match up boys with girls…I don’t know about you, but when I was in the parsha, as an out of town girl, I was always redt to a NY boy! from boro park, flatbush, far rockway ect…and mabye sometimes even Lakewood! i don’t think I was ever redt or ever heard a suggestion of a boy who did not live in tri-state area! I remember wondering where all the out of town boys were…the ones from Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Miami ect…I remember even asking my friends once if any boys from those areas were ever redt to them and they agreed that every boy that was redt to them was from NY and NJ! I even asked some seminary friends who lived in Chicago and similar areas the same question, only to get the same answer! very few shidduchim from my home town were out of town-out of town shidduch…most were with NY boys.
So my question: Where are the boys from areas other than NY and NJ?? I think that many out of town shadchanim need to get together and creatively match up names…coming from an out of town area I know that some pp are reluctant to make shidduchim with pp in their town, because its “too close for comfort”. However they wouldnt’ mind making a shidduch with another out of town boy/girl.
I dont think I know one shadchan in my home town whose in touch with shadchanim in other out of town areas…everyone is sort of hooked onto NY shadchanim, sort of hogging the same pool of names.
Mayb this way, out of town girls wouldn’t constantly get the “I only want someone from NY area for my son” as an answer, maybe this way more girls will get a chance to go out with a boy with same out of town personality.
Just a suggestion…December 16, 2009 6:07 am at 6:07 am #670036ronrsrMember
in the old days, if there were too many girls, they’d just ship more boys in from Poland.December 16, 2009 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #670037
Mazal 77 & potsandpans:
Where are the boys???
There are simply far far more girls in the dating pool than boys…..
(primarily) AGE GAP
That’s why at events girls are on a waitng list and they have to beg the boys to show….December 16, 2009 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #670038oomisParticipant
“That’s why at events girls are on a waitng list and they have to beg the boys to show…. “
They actually often give the boys FREEBIES to attend. My daughter went to several such events and found out from the guys there, that they paid NOTHING to be there (including Shabbos hotel stays).December 16, 2009 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #670039mazcaMember
in the event when there where too many girls they just shipped the boys from ISRAEL
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