Where is Hashem?

and its actually hilarious how you keep bringing up liberals, one of the key tenets of current left-wing craziness is that everyone has their own truth and it is oppressive to force your truth onto anyone else, which fits quite well into this discussion, just maybe not the way you would like it to

none2.0,

“if you have an actual comeback to refute what I said share it.”

Yeah I do. First of all, the Jewish community is brimming with generosity, and I have a lot of experience on the receiving end of that, and I try to be on the giving end of it too. So to second what HaLeiVi wrote, how can you besmirch our community in that way? Regarding not fitting into a box and feeling unaccepted – I’m sorry you feel that way; however, you are raging against Jews as a whole, been rude to other posters, including calling them “evil”, and claimed that posters who disagree with you truly agree deep in their hearts, which demonstrates an intolerance of disagreement despite your accusations that others can’t tolerate disagreement. And on top of all of that you don’t seem to accept Torah sheba’al peh as legitimate, which is going to be problematic in a forum designed for people who believe that as a given.

“Halacha requires you to live beyond your human nature which actually can be very hard to balance when faced with real life scenarios.”

Judaism wants us to grow, which yes means going beyond what our current nature is. Right now I am incapable of running two miles non-stop without walking some of the time. If someone were to demand that I do so, I’d fail, or become quite sick in the attempt and probably vomit or faint. But am I by nature a creature incapable of running two miles? Are the biology books that tell us that humans are built for long distance running incorrect? Of course not! I can indeed run two miles. I would need to train myself every day. Get up in the morning and jog. And jog again the next day a little longer. And a little longer the day after that. And perhaps eat better and sleep better, and stretch out my muscles. Then one day I would be able to run those two miles. That’s what halacha is. It’s a training program to get our body and neshama working together properly to allow us to do what we’ve been placed here to do, which is to be constantly aware of Hashem and to serve Him with a full heart, mind, and body. Is getting up early to jog (or daven shacharis with a minyan) sometimes really hard and not what I want to do? Sure thing! That comes from a lack of perspective. If I maintain awareness that I want to be able to run those two miles, or to come close to Hashem, I can overcome, and maybe even appreciate the opportunity I have.

“If people were to be truly honest with themselves I’m sure they will tell you how certain things they do is very difficult. Yes of course you will say difficult doesn’t mean it’s wrong but I believe, based off my experiences with real life.”

That’s a cop out. You surely can think of things that are difficult to do but are yet correct to do. If you dent somebody’s car in a parking lot and nobody saw, it might be very difficult for some people to leave a note. But it’s the right thing to do. This is not about difficulty, it’s more about the fact that you do not accept Judaism as valid. And that makes me wonder why you’re motivated to post here.

“That G-d who created us knows how much we can handle”

Yup, and when I ponder that deeply, it is very, very scary. Because in truth I can handle a lot more than I act like I can.

Ok I hear all of your points but, first of all not everyone wants to run that marathon and usually most people do not. A very controlled lifestyle is not really designed for the average joe. Yes we are very disciplined and very aligned with doing but love, kindness and heart comes with being and alot of the laws that are written into the book of life is written in such a way that alighs with the nature of being. We need roots to survive not just doing. Getting up for shachris is _very_ hard and you may do it every day but some people who simply can’t actually find a deeper connection to G-d let’s say by doing hisbodedus and praying to G-d by living _with_ G-d more like the biblical figures did. Imagine if David hamelech got up for shachris and was a conformist you think he would have had the connection he has to G-d to write tehilim. Tehilim is David hamelechs deep relationship with faith, understanding, sacrifice, suffering and understanding the deep eb and flow of how G-d works on earth you cannot learn that ebb and flow and have a true relationship with self. And your creator by being a confromist. I understand that everyone on here believes a certain way I also value this belief system but I want to bring a very realistic way of seeing the world because as much as orj lifestyle is beieifull it does not get to the heart of what mankind _can_ be and that’s having a deep grounded relationship with self and with our creator. Being a runner is exhausting requires discipline many people do not have and if you run too much you are definitely going to depelte yourself and in the long run overstress your system. Please listen to G-d He created us and knows how he designed his creation and how much you truly _can_ handle

I understand that my thoughts are not the norm doesn’t mean I cannot speak them it’s very very important that we don’t live in an echo chamber and we bring differant opinions and voices to the table because life is anot a bubble. Sorry. Different circumstances equal different perspectives and different perspectives are very important for real life. We do not live in a boxed in arena we live in real life where you will have to live with your choices. It’s better to discuss real topics like adults then to shut down all dissenting opinions. So I don’t care that much that everyone believes a certain way we were not born with these beliefs but handed them to us. Which is very nice but we still have a responsibility to ourselves to filter the truth. and if you can’t speak about certain topics then what is the truth? Conformity?

Oh and actually you cannot handle more then you can. You can only handle a certain amount and if you go beyond that you will overstress yourself leading to breakdown. People who get overstressed and push themselves beyond their capabilities actually hurt themselves in the long run. If don’t over a long period of time. We are only so much we can handle. Only so long we can stay awake. Only so long we can go without food. Imagine I tought you to go days without eating then told you how wanting food is your yetzer hara and even tho you did it you were stressed and you live with hardship internally for how much you judge yourself for being human. Alot of what G-d writes isn’t just do this or die it’s, it’s more like, if you did this, then, if you did that, then there are the consequences. Cuz we _are_ human. We _do_ er that’s what we are designed to do in some situations you will simply not be able to always choose the right thing cuz you had so much going on inside your head. Sometimes it’s your heart. Sometimes it’s your emotions. Sometimes it’s circumstances. We wouldn’t need karbonos if we were perfect

Also I want to mention one thing. You cannot connect to G-d if your not first connected to self and if your constantly running after some thing you need to do to conform your will using someone else’s rituals (they are not your own) you will not 100br connected to G-d and or to self. For example. Prayer. Is something very personal but we have made it into a ritual. I mean prayer is the thing you use when you need help. It’s not just some things you mumbled daily. Someone else’s words, someone else’s meaning. G-D Listens to everything you say and also, words have power. The earth was created through speech. You saying things you don’t mean or don’t wish into reality might actually be taking your life _out_ of your own alignment. (Just a hunch, thought, theory, don’t jump down my throught) the point is you will ask when you need it and speak when you want it. And connect when it works for you. I get and understand why we officially daven 3 times a day to mimic karbonos but again. Very nice still doesn’t resonate with _me_ and _i_ also matter in this equation. Since when do we have to take ourselves our needs our wants out of the equation. Does everyone like the same color or have the same color eyes? No

none2.0,

“Why did G-d give you your own mind.”

So I could recognize Him.

“Your own heart.”

So I could love Him, cleave to Him, and be grateful to Him.

“And your own life and corn circumstances”

So I could serve Him, have faith in Him, and cry out to Him.

“If G-d wanted you to think by a book and not by your own thoughts, why did he give you an independent free thinking brain “

I am a father and husband. That gives me some responsibilities and obligations, whether or not I feel like it in the moment. Didn’t sleep well last night? Too bad, I still have to get up, help with breakfast, and go to work, then help with dinner and bedtime, and be sweet to everyone. That’s not being a bee in a hive, that’s being a man. I am also a Jew. And that gives me responsibilities and obligations too. Mitzvos, learning, connecting to Hashem. That’s being a Jew, not a sheep.

none2.0,

“Imagine if David hamelech got up for shachris and was a conformist you think he would have had the connection he has to G-d to write tehilim.”

He certainly did get up for shacharis! Look what he wrote in his tehillim: לְהַגִּ֣יד בַּבֹּ֣קֶר חַסְדֶּ֑ךָ וֶֽ֜אֱמוּנָֽתְךָ֗ בַּלֵּילֽוֹת!

“Please listen to G-d He created us and knows how he designed his creation and how much you truly _can_ handle”

Yes, and he gave us a really handy Owner’s manual for how to operate and maintain humans, particularly Jewish humans. That’s called the Torah.

“Maybe avram maybe that’s not your tafkid maybe the reason you need to be bribed to to learn is the same way you need to be bribed to go to school everyone hates school. And learning maybe it’s not something you enjoy. Maybe find something more in line with _your_ truth to focus on.”

I’ll be blunt. This is just straight up hedonism cloaked in feely goody spiritual mumbo jumbo. What I want when my alarm clock goes off in the morning is to sleep in more, so that must be right. I’ll just tell my boss that my personal truth was I couldn’t handle getting up this morning. I love fried foods, cookies, and ice cream, so Hashem must want me to eat them. I want to hang around and rest and not be bothered, that’s my tafkid! My pajamas are way more comfortable than my clothes, so maybe G-d wants me to wear them all day. If I used what I “want” to do in the moment as my life guide, I’ll end up as a 700lb blob living alone with no purpose in life, no self respect, and no happiness. At least there’d be french fries and cookie dough! Well, until my money runs out. My neshama loves to learn Torah, it’s my body that sometimes has to be motivated. And sometimes it’s not my body, but a lack of perspective, or a lack of organization that holds me back.

You’re telling me to know myself and my needs and wants, yadda yadda. I want to be a good Jew. I want to be an eved Hashem. I want to be a ben Torah. That’s my true self. And I don’t intrinsically know how to do those things – I need help! And what I want in the moment is not any kind of guide. Not feeling like it in the morning? That’s not my true self, that’s me not getting enough sleep the night before. Getting angry at the guy who cut me off in traffic, and letting that negativity be an undercurrent for the rest of the morning? That’s not my true self, that’s a lack of perspective. Getting to shacharis when the tzibbur is in shemoneh esrei and grumbling about my kids losing their shoes, refusing to get dressed, etc? That’s a lack of organization. You need to ask yourself who’s driving the bus.

none: You have sadly been misinformed that Judaism is a box and that every Jew must fit in. You have been told that there is no individuality, and that those who differ from the norm are complete outcasts. Well I’d like to enlighten you with the truth.
The Torah IS non-negotiable, every Yid must adhere to its laws and commandments. There are positive commandments and negative commandments written explicitly in the Posuk, and additionally, there is Torah shebaal peh that interprets what’s written there. Torah Shebaal Peh was told to Klal Yisroel by Har Sinai, only not written down. Torah shebaal peh has the same significance as Torah Shebichsav (besides for very specific circumstances), and thus we must follow all that it says. We weren’t given Torah Shebaal Peh so that we can be “contricted” further, or so that we would be “limited” in more ways, but so that we can follow the Torah on a true and correct path, of which we wouldn’t be aware of without Torah Shebaal Peh.

A Yid is born with the tools and כוחות necessary to fulfill his תפקיד in this world; the ability and strength to follow the Torah. Some people don’t naturally seem to have the strength to fulfill certain mitzvos, but if only they would believe, understand, and recognize that Hashem created them with the strength, they would push themselves beyond the limits they seem confined by. Yes, many people have a hard time waking up for Shacharis, and no, it isn’t easy to part with a tenth of your salary, or refrain from talking about certain topics that are considered l”h… It isn’t easy to forgive someone who wronged you, it isn’t simple to adhere to all hilchos shabbos … the list is endless. We have a Yetzer Hara for every mitzva. Some people have a bigger Yetzer Hara for one mitzva, and a smaller one for another. Some people have an easy time with Kibud Av, but find it extremely difficult to be dan lkaf zechus or vice versa…

And thus we have individuality.

With these unique natural strengths and weaknesses we possess, we each serve Hashem in our own individual way, along our singular path of avodas Hashem. We can expand and go beyond in areas that we have a naturally easier time doing, and we additionally work on mitzvos that we struggle with and have difficulty keeping. Not one Yid should be feeling that Hashem wants him to be identical to his friend; not one Yid should think that the Torah is something he must conform to in the exact way as any other Yid. Every person has their own Yetzer Hara, their own life circumstances, their own family, friends, past experiences, and talents. And with all Hashem has given him, you, me, we adhere to the Torah and follow all it says – in our own individual way.

In Judaism, there are 2 different aspects: the יחיד, the individual, and the ציבור, the group, the entirety of our nation.
The יחיד – each and every one of us – has יחידות, individuality, a unique tafkid, purpose, in this world. We each serve Hashem privately and independently, refining our middos, controlling our desires, working on all different areas of Yiddishkeit in our own unparalleled manner.
The ציבור – all of us as a whole – has the strength and power and zechus of everyone in it, as well as a responsibility for those included in it, We each add to, and enrich the כלל with our individuality, our talents, and our abilities.

If one thinks that differing from the norm is unacceptable in Yiddishkeit, he is right and he is wrong.
– If one differs from Torah Shebichsav, Torah Shebaal Peh, from Halacha, from the guidance and instructions of Gedolei Hador, then that is completely and entirely – not only unacceptable, but – wrong.
– If one differs in how they fulfill Torah Shebichsav, Torah Shebaal Peh, or Halacha, in a manner that aligns with Ratzon Hashem, then not only is that NOT unacceptable, it is welcomed and admired and accepted in every way.

none – You seem to have experienced quite the opposite, which is extremely unfortunate. My wish is that you will one day recognize and understand how individuality is something cherished in Yiddishkeit, and that in no way does Hashem want us following Him in identical ways to those around us.

Hashem is Perfect. The Torah is Perfect. The Mitzvos are Perfect. For one to say that a certain aspect of the Torah doesn’t work for them, or is too hard for them to fulfill, is terribly mistaken, and should receive guidance as to how they can shift their current mindset. And again, Yiddishkeit is not “sit back and relax, you’re on vacation toward עוה”ב”. We’re here in this world to work hard, to go beyond what seems naturally possible for us to do, and to do Hashem’s Ratzon in any and every circumstance.

People tell themselves, “If I stretch myself too far, I’m gonna snap” – and while that is true, that doesn’t mean you can’t stretch at all.

I hear all your points actually and I think that all your points are very cool but I don’t agree though with alot of what your saying. להגיד בבוקר חסדך ואמונסך בלילות. To tell in the morning of your kindness and your safety/faith at night, does not translate into praying 3 times a day. That’s litterly to wake up and speak of G-ds kindness to appreciate the morning and be thankful and greatul at the rising sun something we all feel and can feel inherently in our being touching upon something that we are greatul for, rising to a new day and thanking G-d out of greatulness and thankfulness a a new day. And appreciating and Praising G-d for his safety at night. Lol avram it sounds more like you never let yourself rest that it bothers you so much that I tell people to live just a smidge in alightment. You are not wrong tho about what you say. And I hear your point. Maybe something in the middle of doing and being though is healthy. And also you don’t stay at a job you hate. You work at a job you can handle or you change your circumstances according to alignment cuz we may not like to work but if we _hate_ working and it’s a horrible job then that’s not healthy. The point is you do adjust your life according to how much you can handle and if you didn’t care at all about your own needs and sacrificed yourself completely for the whole youd have no self so I hear your point your not wrong at all actually makes a lot of sense but perhaps you need balance from doing and being. Wtsup in one word you said I’ve been informed that judism is a box and in the same breathe said every jew _must_ adhere to it. I know I’m nitpicking but your contradicting yourself a smidge. If it wasn’t a box it would have some ambiguity not extreme black and white thinking….But not to nitpick let me give your.

Prayer may be the most wonderful book on earth doesnt mean I can’t admire it for what it is and still choose my way. Everytime you see a painting do you force yourself to love it. You appreciate it for what it is and move on to do your own thing. This is real life.

You may show up for every yid as a whole to daven because that’s your responsibility but your a human being and I’m sure that’s not your intention Everytime you show up to daven and you think G-d can’t hold up the world without you doing exactly what you just said. alao responsibility like that can sometimes be heavy and you can’t expect yourself to always do everything for everyone else all of the time. Your an individual.

Adaptable. But not invincible. I may be able to go to sleep every night only for one hour, I can train myself and adapt myself to that but that will impact my entire life in a negative manner. We can adapt to a lot of things doesn’t mean we will be utilizing our energies properly and in a healthy fashion. If you don’t take proper care of your body if you push yourself further then your capabilities you will ultimately harm yourself . So yes know your limits honor your energies cuz G-d created you to handle only so much.

Wtsup you are wrong. You do not need to adhere to nothing we are born without rules. It is _we_ who make that decision if we want to adhere to something. I do something if I agree with it if I believe it and if I believe it’s true. we are born as free agents of real life you cannot force someone to do something. We need to do it out of our own free will. Because we agree with it. That’s why G-d made Himself invisible so we can be free to find him and learn right and wrong. So we have free playing field to figure out what we think about this world. You cannot force yourself or others to do something you can only show them why its beneficial to do and then they decide to do it lol.

That’s why it _is_ imperative to take your own energies and needs into account and not to sacrifice for an outside ideal all the time because _we_ are the block to how much we can handle only _we_ know how far we can stretch ourselves and what our true needs are and if we don’t use that filter even just a little bit we can cause ourselves so much internal suffering. That’s why we _were_ given a brain to filter out what is true and what it not so we can ground our belief system not only with reality but also with ourselves. I am not talking about moral relativism I

Regardless, that not the point a true biblical life is one filled with gratitude towards G-d not doctrine it’s about living _with_ G-d not rituals. It’s about true prayer and a real relationship one where _you_ matter as much as the whole one where self sacrifice is not really necessary. G-d already made enough work on earth to motivate us to get out of bed in the morning. One that is not driven by an ideology or _knowledge_ of the truth but filled with morality, love, wisdom. And truth. And real raw life. We are just adding more layers to his world. a person only has a limited amount of energy. Anyways I understand that everything I’m saying here is prob distressing for most people despite the fact that truth doesn’t care about feelings, it’s just that I don’t mean to break all the barriers and unspoken rules Im just tired of not speaking my mind. I apologize these are just my thoughts and opinions. Don’t do this at home

I’m very sorry ard but the Torah itself is a book that is written in the most simplistic English/Hebrew and can be understood by _everyone_ the commentary aspect you speak of is just that an opinion. Of very smart people I’m sure. But smart people also make mistakes. If you fallow someone blindly without discerning whether what they say _is_ the truth and just fallow them because they say you should you are still sadly responsible for the choices you make and the wrong ones are still your responsibility.

none2.0,

“That’s litterly to wake up and speak of G-ds kindness to appreciate the morning and be thankful and greatul at the rising sun something we all feel and can feel inherently in our being touching upon something that we are greatul for, rising to a new day and thanking G-d out of greatulness and thankfulness a a new day. And appreciating and Praising G-d for his safety at night.”

Pretty good description of pesukei d’zimra, shacharis, and maariv you give here! Where I disagree is the notion that we feel it inherently. Do you think if we wake up one morning and are just not feeling so grateful… do you think we’re therefore exempt from speaking of G-d’s kindness to appreciate the morning and be thankful and grateful at the rising sun? Or would it perhaps be a healthy thing for us to express our gratitude anyway and work on our perspective?

“And also you don’t stay at a job you hate. You work at a job you can handle or you change your circumstances according to alignment cuz we may not like to work but if we _hate_ working and it’s a horrible job then that’s not healthy. The point is you do adjust your life according to how much you can handle”

These are decisions that require a good perspective to make. Many people dump a job (or chas veshalom a spouse) because they think they’re not happy enough, but then find that things are even worse on the other side. If you hate your job, you owe it to yourself to really think things through before taking action. Why do you hate the job? Is the work itself odious? Personal problems with the boss or a co-worker? Maybe you don’t think the work you are doing contributes anything meaningful to the world? Sometimes these things can be ameliorated, sometimes not. Sometimes its your own perspective that’s a problem. I love the work I do, some tasks more than others, but we’re plagued with terrible IT support. Many of my colleagues get really bent out of shape that their work is made harder on some days, or that we lost time fixing things unnecessarily. But hey, so what if we had to spend the day reprocessing data because of a bad patch? I’m getting paid, and I can calmly explain the situation to management, and it’s their job, not mine, to ensure that IT meltdowns don’t impact our mission.

“doesnt mean I can’t admire it for what it is and still choose my way. Everytime you see a painting do you force yourself to love it. You appreciate it for what it is and move on to do your own thing. This is real life.”

The last pasuk in the book of Shoftim says, “In those days there was no king in Israel, every man did what was right in his own eyes.” Do you think that’s meant in a good way, or a bad way? Also, it’s very interesting to me how people who argue against observance tend to use the phrase “real life” or “real world”, as if frum Jews aren’t living a real life in the real world. It’s the olam hasheker that likes to call itself the real world.

“You may show up for every yid as a whole to daven because that’s your responsibility but your a human being and I’m sure that’s not your intention Everytime you show up to daven”

No, of course not. I wish it were, and it’s a worthy goal to work towards. But you can’t even begin to work towards that goal if you don’t show up at all.

“and you think G-d can’t hold up the world without you doing exactly what you just said.”

Umm what? That isn’t even remotely close to anything I think, or have ever written. G-d has absolutely no need for us whatsoever.

“alao responsibility like that can sometimes be heavy and you can’t expect yourself to always do everything for everyone else all of the time. Your an individual.”

Yeah, responsibility can be heavy. Whatever. Gotta grow up and put on your big boy pants sometimes. What’s tragic is that you seem to frame individuality as mainly limitations. I’m an individual so I can’t … Healthy individuality means bringing something uniquely you to the world. It’s bogus to say I’m advocating for doing everything for everyone else all of the time and losing myself in the process. It’s necessary take time to “be” as you say, or to get off my feet, read something, walk with my wife, get a babysitter, order pizza, or whatever. But “being” as you say cannot interfere with my obligations. I can’t say to my kids, “sorry little fellas, this is a ME day today, so you’re on your own for food and anything else you need.” That’s not being. It’s being bad.

“I may be able to go to sleep every night only for one hour, I can train myself and adapt myself to that but that will impact my entire life in a negative manner. We can adapt to a lot of things doesn’t mean we will be utilizing our energies properly and in a healthy fashion. If you don’t take proper care of your body if you push yourself further then your capabilities you will ultimately harm yourself .

“I may be able to go to sleep every night only for one hour, I can train myself and adapt myself to that but that will impact my entire life in a negative manner. We can adapt to a lot of things doesn’t mean we will be utilizing our energies properly and in a healthy fashion. If you don’t take proper care of your body if you push yourself further then your capabilities you will ultimately harm yourself .”

I never advocated anyone push themselves beyond endurance. In fact, most kiruv experts advocate for a gradual adoption of mitzvos, not an all or nothing approach. In drashos to ba’al habatim rebbeim say to increase our learning. Try to add in 10 minutes a day, or even just 5. Start going to a regular shiur. They don’t say, “quit your job and get thee into kollel now!” The key is consistency, avoiding complacency, and looking for ways to improve. I think you are using the beyond endurance argument as an excuse to avoid things you just don’t want to do.

none2.0,

“You know in the Torah shebichaav it says, choose _wise_ and _understanding_ men and _then_ it says don’t move from the right or to the left and deviate from what they say. It never said choose men learned in halacha it never said choose men who only speak of law.”

You accused me of inserting an agenda into the pesukum (!?) while you are just going by straight meaning, but this is not so. You’re mixing and matching the pesukim and leaving things out in order to distort the meaning. Choosing wise and understanding men comes from the first perek of sefer Devarim, where Moshe Rabbeinu is recounting for b’nei Yisroel the decision to appoint leaders of thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens to help him bear the burden of the people in the midbar. Not deviating to the right or left of the judgement comes from the 17th perek of sefer Devarim, and the men there are identified as, “the kohanim, the levi’im and the judge who will be in those days”, and furthermore it says, “according to the LAW they instruct you..” Oh yeah, and it also says, “the man who acts willfully, not obeying the kohen who stands there to serve Hashem your God, or to the judge, that man shall die, and you shall abolish evil from Israel. And all the people shall listen and fear, and they shall no longer act willfully.”

Sounds a bit more like wtsp’s “do or die”, and if the judgements are based on the law, you probably want those judges to be conversant in the law.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t run to the Torah and throw pesukim and fake pshat at me to support your position while accusing me of misinterpreting things, but then disparage it as just a “book” when it doesn’t suit your purposes. That’s not intellectually honest.

“Sorry what’s the point in writing a book at all if it needs to be interpreted by a thousand people for a thousand years and none is allowed to r read the actual book” wow she really took my tzeduki reference to heart, and i can finally say i am now 100% certain that shes a kofer

also the torah is not written in english and if not for those “very smart people who also make mistakes” you would not be able to read it, (unless you use the king james authorized version, and im not convinced youre not a missionary, though you would be a pretty stupid one), apparently if you were running society you would gouge out an eye for an eye