Home › Forums › Yeshiva / School / College / Education Issues › Why do Yeshiva not pay their Rabbes and Teachers on time?
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February 28, 2019 12:15 am at 12:15 am #1687325zahavasdadParticipant
People think there is an easy solution to the problem, there isnt an easy solution and probably no solution
And the problem will only get worse as rents go up and there are more kollel familes than there were in previous generations, whereas before maybe a grandparent could help because they were professionals, today the grandparents are also kollel family with alot of grandchildren and they cannot afford to help the tutiotn
February 28, 2019 8:39 am at 8:39 am #1687468JosephParticipant“4. Administrators should charge their tuitions and someone who cant pay should go to a community based tuition organization. As communities we cannot impose the communal charity responsibility on the yeshivas.”
Rafe: And what if the parent who cannot afford cannot find a “community based tuition organization” to partially fund their children’s tuition?
February 28, 2019 8:41 am at 8:41 am #1687473shualiParticipant1) First of all this is, for the most part – for the vast majority of the Yeshivos, Beis Yaakovs, Chedarim, and Day Schools throughout the United States – a thing of the past.
2) Approximately 25 percent of New York City families pay full tuition. About half of those have done so by January – February. That, understandably, places a burden on the administrators in first half of any school year.
3) Average annual cost per class is minimum $200, 000,likely closer to $300,000 when you include each salary, maintenance, utilities, food, etc.
Therefore, I think we have much to be thankful for; supportive askanim, sacrificing parents, and hardworking administrations and staff.February 28, 2019 8:58 am at 8:58 am #1687479Some Common SenseParticipantThe little I know,
you said “You wrote: “P.S. I always met my commitments for tuition bills even when my wife lost her job. Other parents can do it.” Are you for real? You have no idea who I am, what my employment status is, no clue about my expenses, other earners in my home, but your ability to meet your commitments means that I can do the same? Sorry, but that comment is pure silliness. I do hope your wife found another job, and even that you got a raise in your salary. But your financial status will never translate into that of anyone else. Do you really believe what you said?”Do you know who I said and what I financial situation is? I don’t think so. I had to have a very strong backbone when arguing with the tuition committee to only accept a tuition agreement I had any hope of paying for and I still went thousands of dollars into debt to meet that commitment.
Not so commons sense, you stated “if you actualy learnt the gemara in bava metzia you would know its only assur if the person who hires pays the worker himself and most yeshivahs have someone seperate for that ”
You assume that I don’t the halacha; I was just asking politely. I discussed this with an Adam Godal that this argument doesn’t help; he actually stated that the employees MUST be paid before the power bill.
Rafe,
you are, of course, correct if that was the terms of employment but that is not always the case and that only works for non written contracts that include payment schedule clauses. I do not hate owner and administrators but I see a problem that they get paid while the teachers do not sometimes for years at a time if ever. For example, I have been told of a school that bought a building but their teachers were not paid for a very long time. On the other hand, I have heard of an institution that the Rebbe refused to hold an event in a very large venue because he directed the monies be used to be pay the teachers.February 28, 2019 9:00 am at 9:00 am #1687483RafeParticipantI agree with shuali, it’s more of a problem in new and developing schools,younger than 15 years old or older schools that have lost portions of their enrollment.
The problem is that the teachers are not paid enough and so we are not getting and retaining the best or we are and we are just making them suffer.February 28, 2019 9:00 am at 9:00 am #1687487RafeParticipantJoseph, I am saying that there needs to be a shift in the communal mindset away from yeshivas providing aid, to independent organizations or individuals providing aid. This is for a very simple reason…yeshivas are quasi businesses and apparently no one trusts owner and administrators to manage their budgets and effectively pay staff. We need to take that burden off of our yeshivas. We dont enforce the grocery stores to provide free food we should not do it to schools.
As a side note ask yourself when you are more likely to help out? When it’s a yeshiva asking for its overall messy budget or when your neighbors kid is sitting home?February 28, 2019 9:21 am at 9:21 am #1687493apushatayidParticipant“Rebbes and Morah’s are more forgiving than the Banks or Power Companies.”
You wouldnt know it from threads such as this. Right from the opening message in this thread, yeshiva administrators are labeled as flaunting a sugya in shas and a whole siman in shulchan aruch. Since we are ok with using such broad brushes, lets label all parents who do not pay tuition deadbeats.
February 28, 2019 9:22 am at 9:22 am #1687494Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant“I agree with shuali, it’s more of a problem in new and developing schools”
I agree also. It’s not like this is a problem in 100% of yeshivas. It is not, as some have asserted, that all yeshivas are financially insolvent by definition. People should not be opening new ones without enough cash flow and savings to be able to pay their teachers. It defies common sense.
In any other industry everyone would agree. When you talk about yeshivas, suddenly nobody cares about the teachers. The way the Litvish world views “the yeshivas” as a collective is relatively in-tune with how Lubavitchers view “the Rebbe.” If an unethical action is committed, rather than own up to it, they redefine their entire ethical code such that the action is now considered acceptable.
February 28, 2019 9:27 am at 9:27 am #1687511☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantPeople should not be opening new ones without enough cash flow and savings to be able to pay their teachers. It defies common sense.
Do you know whynew yeshivos open? Usually because there isn’t enough space in the existing ones.
Saying not to open new ones when there aren’t enough slots for everyone isn’t a solution.
February 28, 2019 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1687737Neville ChaimBerlinParticipantapush:
I have no problem owning up to the viewpoint that you seem to think is hypocritical. If a parent has 5+ kids and is expected to pay 10K+ in tuition for them, that’s a crisis. When a yeshiva asks for 10K+ in tuition per student, pays its staff minimally, and can’t be bothered to pay them on time, it’s not a crisis; it’s just mismanagement. And yes, I would say teachers should take one out of the power companies’ books and be less forgiving. They shouldn’t be taken advantage of.“Saying not to open new ones when there aren’t enough slots for everyone isn’t a solution.”
But having teachers as slaves is? If there aren’t enough slots then expand the existing yeshivas.February 28, 2019 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #1687767apushatayidParticipant“When you talk about yeshivas, suddenly nobody cares about the teachers. ”
Thats absurd.
February 28, 2019 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1687773apushatayidParticipant“But having teachers as slaves is?”
Anyone can walk away at any time. In fact, they likely knew going in that they would end up in the predicament being discussed.“If a parent has 5+ kids and is expected to pay 10K+ in tuition for them, that’s a crisis.”
Please name one Yeshiva that demands this from every family.“When a yeshiva asks for 10K+ in tuition per student, pays its staff minimally, and can’t be bothered to pay them on time, it’s not a crisis; it’s just mismanagement.”
I will agree with this statement if the word “asks” is replaced with “gets”. You show me a Yeshiva that gets that tuition from every student, and I will show you a school with a highly qualified, professional staff that is well paid, on time. Every other Yeshiva does not get anywhere near that kind of tuition per student and as a result their highly qualified staff is underpaid, and is often behind on payroll and other bills.
” And yes, I would say teachers should take one out of the power companies’ books and be less forgiving. They shouldn’t be taken advantage of.”
If halacha allows it, I’m all for it. I’ll stand with them in the picket line if they felt it would be beneficial.
March 2, 2019 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #1688289MistykinsParticipantEach high school needs to hire a qualified teacher of a financial literacy class. Teach balancing budgets, living within means, etc.
Too many kids growing up nowadays have NO idea how to balance a budget. Many who have grown up with discounted tuitions don’t understand the true cost of running a school and how important the tuition is to continuing the long term goals of the school.
March 3, 2019 7:48 am at 7:48 am #1688317👑RebYidd23ParticipantFinancial literacy should be taught in elementary school because high school is actually supposed to be optional.
January 26, 2024 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #2256464BerishParticipantJobs don’t grow on trees. So when somebody doesn’t gets paid on time and without notice it wreaks havoc on families that rely on the checks to feed their families, put gas in their cars to get to the job and pay their rents. If the electricity isn’t paid in the yeshiva won’t get off and nor will the yeshiva be repossessed at the drop of a hat. To suggest this is very dishonest. Also are the administrators paying themselves on time? Who knows? When people go into chinuch they know it will be tough. In the end the moral of the mechanchim is destroyed. But the disgusting behavior of delaying checks will not be overlooked as we are all being watched.
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