October 12, 2010 2:25 am at 2:25 am #592601myfriendMember
New York has more Yeshivos, Botei Medroshim, Botei Knessiyos, Chesed organizations (Hatzolah, Shomrim, Chaveirim, countless Bikur Cholim, Tzedakah organizations, Gemachim, health services, etc.), Roshei Yeshivos, Rebbe’s, Gedolim, holocaust survivors, and so many Shomrei Torah U’Mitzvos all over the place, than anywhere else in all of Chutz L’aretz.
(The secular amenities New York is famous for [restaurants, parks, entertainment, easy walking distance to almost anything you need, mass transportation, high paying jobs, etc.] is well renowned and needn’t even be mentioned here.)
So many former out of towner have, and continually are, making New York there home. And the many various reasons that draw them here is obvious.
I think the reason New York is the biggest Makom Torah in chutz l’aretz, is because the Yidden of York (England) were moser nefesh their lives al pi Kiddush Hashem, when the goyim wanted to force them to convert.
Share your reasons why you feel New York is the best makom for a Yid in chutz l’aretz!October 12, 2010 3:19 am at 3:19 am #1133299so rightMember
Don’t forget almost 24/7 Minyanim!October 12, 2010 3:35 am at 3:35 am #1133300WIYMember
Because I live there. Duh!October 12, 2010 5:03 am at 5:03 am #1133301mischiefmakerMember
Hey boring nyers! c’mon-nothing’s like sunny gorgeous california.
Sit at the beach and take in the breeze and the crystal clear beige sand and the blue crashing waves……yyyuuuummmm!
Ya and we have a nice jewish community here too! Take a look at the la thread. U nyers r just jealous lolOctober 12, 2010 5:49 am at 5:49 am #1133302mamashtakahMember
But it’s still NOT Eretz Yisrael, no matter how many ” Yeshivos, Botei Medroshim, Botei Knessiyos, Chesed organizations (Hatzolah, Shomrim, Chaveirim, countless Bikur Cholim, Tzedakah organizations, Gemachim, health services, etc.), Roshei Yeshivos, Rebbe’s, Gedolim, holocaust survivors, and so many Shomrei Torah U’Mitzvos all over the place” it has.October 12, 2010 11:12 am at 11:12 am #1133304minyan galMember
Knock, knock. Am I welcome in this thread?? I have a confession to make – I HAVE NEVER VISITED NEW YORK. It isn’t that I wouldn’t like to, but the opportunity has never presented itself. Nowadays when I read travel columns about the expense involved in such a visit, I shudder and wonder if I will ever get there. When I have been able to save some money I may consider a visit, however the number one destination for me is Eretz as I have also never been there.October 12, 2010 11:33 am at 11:33 am #1133305
I agree with mischeifmaker (dont call us boring!), I think that makes me a hypocrite 🙂
Don’t get me wrong New York is wonderful (especially if we were including the secular angle), OOT is AWESOME…. especially if its someplace warm, with palm trees.October 12, 2010 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1133306☕️coffee addictParticipant
what about the Eruv (oh yeah brooklyn doesn’t have 1) (i know it does just no-one holds of it)
what about filtering tap water (Yaay! fun! can never drink from a public water fountain)
now on a secular level
How much do you pay in tolls?
How’s your traffic?
still think NY is the best?October 12, 2010 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #1133307HelpfulMember
(And LA isn’t even close in either kadosh or secular.)October 12, 2010 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #1133308NoNonsenseParticipant
If you want gashmiyus (yes, a minyan and kosher restaurant on every conrner IS gashmiyus), then, yes, live in NY, if you want ruchniyus, move to out of town, where yiddishkeit is not taken for granted!
(By the way, I grew up out of town but have been living in NY for the past decade, because of circumstance, not choice)
I remember, when I was growing up, a visiting bachur commented that he sees and has access to more gedolim (visiting this out of town community) then he does in their hometown of NY!October 12, 2010 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #1133309HelpfulMember
There is definitly a lot more ruchniyos in NY than anywhere else outside EY. Including more gedolim, in addition to the other ruchniyos there.
BTW, minyanim all the time IS a ruchniyos zach.October 12, 2010 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #1133310Pashuteh YidMember
In NY unfortunately one can live his life totally anonymously by floating from shul to shul each day and each Shabbos. One never has attachment to a Rav, and often not even to a kehilla and steady group of friends.
Out of town, one goes to the same shul every day, and gets to know each person in the shul. These become his friends and everybody shares in everybody’s simchas.
Out of town is usually much prettier than the frum neighborhoods of NY where you are usually so boxed in among tall buildings that you rarely see the sun or trees and grass. Parking is a nightmare, especially with alternate side of the street. Getting from one end of Boro Park to the other can be 45 minutes for about one mile, total. A person I know once used his GPS to plot a route, and it told him to go through BP, as it was a bit shorter. The delay was unbearable. (He should have gone on Ocean Pkwy to the Belt.)
The quality of life for a secular person is far better out of town than in most frum NY neighborhoods. We only put up with all this because of the shuls, yeshivas and restaurants.
One other thing is that OOT often there is only one school, and kids from all backgrounds learn achdus and become friends without labeling each group. They don’t even know the difference. The warmth is unbelievable.October 12, 2010 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #1133311OfcourseMember
New York has its advantages, but how can the young buy houses there? There’s a reason enrollment in elementary schools is dwindling all over New York, except for Chassidishe Mosdos. The young working (those not on programs) families cant afford housing.
Also, it works if you dont care about being a speck of sand on the beach.October 12, 2010 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #1133312AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
New York is horrible!
-Most of the year is uncomfortably hot or uncomfortably cold.
-The taxes (sales, income, real estate, etc. etc.) are CRAZY!
-Despite the bogus statistics, way too dangerous!
Yes, there ARE lots of yeshivas, shuls, and kosher food places in New York, but how many do you really need?
Why doesn’t the frum community get up in mass and move to a better location?!? Ideally, of course to Eretz Yisrael, but if not there, to a place like New Hampshire or another beautiful state with less taxes, less crime, and a better climate!
I really can NOT figure out why any non-Jew (who obviously does not need the shuls, yeshivos, etc.) would live here if he can find a job elsewhere. Home-wise you can get so much more for so much less in so many other states.October 12, 2010 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #1133313Ben TorahParticipant
New York has amongst the highest salaries in the nation. Hence the higher costs.October 12, 2010 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #1133314
I live in NY, i guess im not as patriotic as the other posters here…Sometimes its easy to kvetch and complain about certain things, and a great friend of mine (from out of town) moved to NY a couple years ago and said that she loves NY. Where she is coming from, where else is there a grocery on every corner, so many shuls, yeshivohs….It really put me in my place. She is so right, and since then i think before complaining.October 12, 2010 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #1133315apushatayidParticipant
“Why New York is the best!” I don’t know about the best, but it sure beats Idaho and Wyoming.October 12, 2010 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #1133316NoNonsenseParticipant
I think you missed my point. Ofcourse their are more Gedolim living in NY, but how often do you take advantage of that zechus? When these Gedolim go to out of town communities. the yeshivos and shuls make sure to chap arein and have them speak, take questions, and in general, take advantage of the situation. when you know they live around the corner, all too often, you never even get the chance to benefit from the closeness, because you “know” the opportunity is “always” there.
And I stand by my original assertion, that having a minyan on every corner, at every possible time, is a convenience, and thus a gashmiyus benefit of performing a mitzvah. i think it requires more thought and a bigger committment when you have to plan your schedule around the zemanei tefillah instead of simply running out to catch the next minyan out there!
We recently hosted bachurim (21-22ish) from Brooklyn for Shabbos.When the topic came up about shidduchim, most of them were hesitant to even consider moving out of town (or dating someone who wants to live out of town). When I asked them why, The only reasons they could come up with were all the minyanim and restaurants at their fingertips. The thought of possibly having to walk 10 minutes to shul on shabbos made them shudder!October 12, 2010 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1133317WIYMember
NY is a big place. Some places are nicer and better than others. I live in Brooklyn and like it very much but I think its a bit too crowded there are just too many people here. There’s no denying that as far as Jewish infrastructure NY has anything you can imagine for a Jew who is from any part of the spectrum. Chassid Ger and Litvak can all find their place. Out of town there are far less options and everyone knows everyone. If you aren’t happy OOT its not as simple as just changing shuls and meeting different types of people!
Now as far as bringing up children, I still think NY has the most options as far as Yeshivos and all that and makes it much easier to find the right niche for your kids.
In my mind, the only Maaleh of OOT is that things are more spread out and certain locations have better climate. As far as Yiddishkiet goes, NY is the place to be.October 12, 2010 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #1133318tomim tihyeMember
Those who don’t like NY are either perpetual vacationer wannabes or are just afraid of farming:*)
I constantly point out to my kids how lucky we are to live among so many Jews.October 12, 2010 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #1133319
AinOhd – Brooklyn has low Real Estate Taxes compared to many other places (including OOT)October 12, 2010 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #1133320SJSinNYCMember
I’ve been to all 50 states, Puerto Rico, and 10 countries.
New York certainly isn’t “the best.”October 12, 2010 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #1133321
I wouldnt live in NY if you paid me.(No offence to all NYers here)
The only place that i would ever consider would either be LA or Miami.
Why do you think that no Mexican Jews go to NY? The life anywhere just doesn’t compare to the quality of life of Mexico. (Maids, weather, etc)October 12, 2010 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #1133322
mybat – Fear of kidnappings…October 12, 2010 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #1133323
After reading the YWN headlines for a few days….. Mexico sounds very safe!
But we do have too much traffic and pollution. I guess thats why everyone goes to Cuernavaca on holidays and weekends.October 12, 2010 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #1133324
I guess that just goes to show everyone has their own sense of security. People in E”Y will tell you they feel they are in the safest place in the world….
Where is the Jewish community in Mexico, Mexico City?
Always wanted to go to the La Merced Market…October 12, 2010 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #1133325bein_hasdorimParticipant
New York is great cuz I live here.
But please there’s no place like home, Yerushalayim Iyr Hakodesh!
Yidden! Never forget that!
With all the mansions, lexus, decent tap water, pizza, & nyc shopping designer clothes, borsalinos w/o gold & gems
all over, ;-)(tacky much) white shirts that stay white.
I’m still not here for the long haul, just camping out.
I wanna go home!October 12, 2010 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #1133326
Yes, Mexico city. But I’ve never heard of La Merced marketOctober 12, 2010 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #1133327mghanooniMember
As far as raising kids (or adults), NYC can be an unhelpful place for development of middot. Your frumkeit comes with little effort and many of those services, like restuarants, are there to serve and develop your gashmiut. One can be a naval birshut haTorah while being heimish.October 12, 2010 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #1133328
mybat – :O only the biggest market in probably the world!October 12, 2010 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1133329yeshivaguy1Participant
I’m a fan of the in between places like lakewood and monsey where you aren’t crammed into a tiny area but they still have enough in town amenities to be enjoyable. You can get a minyan in lakewood almost 24 hours, there are shuls all over the place, and there is a decent selection of restaurants ( at least with the not as fancy places if you want fancy you can go to deal).October 12, 2010 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #1133330mghanooniMember
Thank you for moderating my post to a cleaner lashon without changing the ideas expressed.
MDGOctober 12, 2010 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #1133331
Sacrilege, sorry never heard of it. But believe it or not I do go shopping for my fruits and veggies to a real market.
Yeshiva guy I agree about Lakewood. Probably my 2nd choice, before Miami.October 12, 2010 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1133332
For all the complaints about NYC, I should point out that with regards to the tolls, leaving town is free, and people PAY to get in, so there must be something worth coming (and staying) for.October 12, 2010 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #1133333
Lakewood isnt crammed?!
Last choice place.October 12, 2010 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #1133334yeshivaguy1Participant
depends what neighborhoods. If you want you can live pretty spread apartOctober 12, 2010 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1133335justsmile613Participant
I grew up in ny and love to visit, but realistically buddy, OOT is cheaper, way better quality of life for kids and if you choose an oot city like Passaic, Baltimore Lakewood than you do have everything you need. Im not saying there isnt an amazing abundance of Torah in NY but many oot communities rival it….October 12, 2010 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #1133336
mybat – “But believe it or not I do go shopping for my fruits and veggies to a real market.”
They have amazing Farmers Markets in NYC as well. Union Square, City Hall, Bowling Green…October 12, 2010 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #1133337justsmile613Participant
yeshivaguy1 -“I’m a fan of the in between places like lakewood and monsey where you aren’t crammed into a tiny area but they still have enough in town amenities to be enjoyable.” …….i geg to differ about monsey, it is nice but the traffic is rediculous, its like brooklyn.October 12, 2010 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #1133338SJSinNYCMember
Passaic and Lakewood are OOT? Next thing you know, Marine Park will be OOT>October 12, 2010 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #1133339
Monsey has ridiculous property taxes.October 12, 2010 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1133340squeakParticipant
BP Totty- By your argument I would have to declare Staten Island to be the shpitz New York because people pay $11 to go in and nothing at all to go from SI to Brooklyn.October 12, 2010 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #1133341says whoMember
Some would agree that it’s the Shpitz bacause it takes you to Lakewood.October 12, 2010 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #1133342squeakParticipant
Some would, yes. Perhaps SItotty would. But would BPtotty?October 12, 2010 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #1133343
SI as shpitz NY? Ok, you got me there. All I can counter with (and its pretty lame, I’ll admit) is the SI Ferry is free, so in theory, you could still leave at will, should you choose to do so.
(see, I told you it was lame.)
And I for one should not be poking fun at ex-NYers, as with almost 99% sureity, my boys will be headed to Lakewood, with me not far behind, once all of them are there. What’s that they say about living in a glass house….?October 12, 2010 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #1133344
So I guess it’ll be lakewoodtotty?October 12, 2010 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #1133345
No- LKWD Zaidy I”HOctober 12, 2010 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1133346
I was thinking, at that point, something like NJ Zeidy would sum it up pretty well 🙂October 12, 2010 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #1133347
Thanks – Blinky! I just clicked send, when yours appearded.
I think your suggestion had a better ring to it!October 12, 2010 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1133348
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