In the Purim Spirit: Women are required to Ad dlo yada 😂🤣😂🤣

Women are prohibited from drinking and getting shikkur on Purim according to l’chol hadeios.

We have enough issues even without woman drinking ad dlo yada let’s not add on. We can start by working on summer modesty first and then advance to drinking.

This is actually a very valid question that the thread starter asked. I have searched for this answer for years and haven’t been pleased with the findings. There are poskim who require women to drink a cup/some wine but unfortunately all seforim that I’ve seen either don’t bring up the issue, or rarely just explain that it isnt tsnius for women to get drunk (based on a gemara but dont remember where off hand).

But an even better question was triggered by your second post on this thread, about scotch. its actually fascinating to read the arguments throughout various seforim about whether one is yotse the mitsva with non-wine alcohols. Some say the Nes happened with wine, so its davka wine, others say as long as your ad delo yada it doesnt matter which liquor got you there…

a question ive had is whether or not you can be yotse with Brandy according to all opinions since its made out of fermented grapes just like wine is.

The Biur Halachah (D”H Chayiv Inish) specifically mentions drinking wine,

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49628&st=&pgnum=320

You are not yotzei drinking w scotch, only wine.

On numerous threads in the CR, there is intense discussion and debate about the entire subject of ad delo yoda. From the appearance of it, there is far more noise about being “machmir” on this than on the true mitzvos of the day spelled out in the Megillah, which are reading the Megillah, mishloach manos, seuda, and matanos lo’evyonim. The ad delo yoda appears as a statement in the gemora, and is included in Shulchan Aruch. I am not minimizing its importance. But it is NOT one the main 4 mitzvos of the day. Rather, it is to be viewed as a subset of the existing mitzvos, not one of its own. So the concept of being “machmir” is misapplied.

The fact that something becomes commonplace is not grounds to call it a minhag nor a mitzvah. There is no halachic source (if you find one, please share it) for imbibing any other form of alcohol besides wine on Purim.

Observing the “chumros” about getting drunk paired with extreme “kulos” in many other areas of Yiddishkeit, the contrast is remarkable, and one must question whether the drinking is being made into a goal of its own.

The wild behavior observed in the streets on Purim night (after megillah) is completely antithetical to the true simcha of Purim. It seems that there is a controlled desire to reach intoxication, behave loudly and wildly, without regard to the chilul Hashem factor, nor the disturbance it creates for people who are forced to tolerate it, Purim simply lifts these rules of decency. Sorry, but I have yet to find a Torah source that makes such behavior virtuous. It defies the midos that a Yid is expected to follow.

Some say the Nes happened with wine, so its davka wine

Who says davka wine?

ad dlo yada should be achieved thru drinking wine.

Source?

You are not yotzei drinking w scotch, only wine.

Source?

There is no halachic source (if you find one, please share it) for imbibing any other form of alcohol besides wine on Purim.

Aruch Hashulchan 695:5 (doesn’t recommend it because it leads to vomiting, but holds you’re yotzei), Nemukei Orach Chaim 695:3 page 265, Orchos Rabbeinu 3 page 56:92, Mekadesh Yisroel Purim 328, Lehoros Nosson 9:21-22, Mekroei Kodesh 44, Rivevos Ephraim 7:360:1:1

The OPs question is very valid, but it hinges on an assumption. The reason why women are obligated in daled Koisos is because they were also included in the miracle of Mitzrayim. This is also the reason given for women being obligated to hear the Megillah, even though its a time bound Mitzvah.

The question now becomes- is the obligation to drink ad d’lo yoda as a remembrance to the Neis Purim? Or perhaps, even though it was triggered by the Neis Purim, the Mitzvah itself isn’t merely one of remembrance rather it’s a “different beast” so to speak?

I think it could be argued that the actual obligation of Ad d’lo yoda doesn’t really have anything to do with the actual Neis itself. It isn’t a zechira in the classic sense, which would carry the dictum of “af heim hayu b’oiso haneis”. Rather it’s merely a Mitzvah to attempt to see the unseeable, in a day where we’re pressured to peer beyond the veil of physicality to perceive a deeper reality.

If that’s true, then the Mitzvah would carry the same laws of “zman grama” and women wouldn’t be obligated.

DY:

Thanks for the citations. Some are accurate, others not quite.

Aruch Hashulchan when addressing yy”sh seems to be referring to drunkenness in a very general sense, and is not talking about Purim. He is not very supportive of the “chumroh” of getting drunk.

Mikdash Yisroel is quite clear that use of other intoxicating beverages is not part of L’ivsumai bePuriah. Read it again. He notes that some people do it, but does not agree with it.

Rivevos Efraim states that other intoxicating drinks are not part of the Purim drinking.

The source for L’ivsumai referring to wine is Rashi in Gemora Megillah.

Many poskim translate ad delo yoda as “ad velo ad bichlal”, meaning that the drinking should not reach that level but just before it. If you read them carefully, they are not being meikil. They are claiming that the drunkeness is a detraction from the fulfillment of mitzvos, and is a state that we should not reach.

I haven’t seen it in a couple of years, but unless I am mistaken in Kovetz Halachos from Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky he actually says that women are obligated, yet it is not proper for them to get drunk, therefore they should do the Rama, drink a little wine and go to sleep.

Thanks for the citations. Some are accurate, others not quite.

Very possible. I didn’t see them inside, I found them online somewhere.

I disagree with you about the Aruch Hashulchan. He is indeed in favor of following the R”ma, but he’s talking about Purim, and had whisky not been valid for the mitzvah, he would have said so.

Nitei Gavriel Hilchos Purim Perek Ayin Gimmel Siman beis

He does, but I don’t think a single source he brings backs up what he says.

OTOH, he brings the נר למאה who clearly holds whisky is okay.

Wine is too chashuv to drink too much of at once.

The 4 kosos are different than the wine drunk for add’loh yadah;
The 4 kosos are consumed around the seder table, at home, without exposing herself to the (ugly) events/non-tzniyus of the outer world.
Whereas on Purim drinking and going out can, Chas v’sholom, lead to issur.
So no comparison to 4 kosos should be made.

Rofehardamah, in that case, it is assur for a woman to go out on Purim, but she must drink.

BTW, it’s Mikadesh Yisroel, not Mikdash Yisroel.

It is absolutely ossur and completely antithetical to frum values for a woman to drink to intoxication, certainly intentionally. Any man who advocates for such things should be questioned for his learning and values, any rov who publicly considers this with legitimacy should be shunned and rabbinically defrocked. Shame, shame. Go learn the absolute basics of tzniyus, kavod habriyos, and respect for protection of women. Shame, shame.

@RebYidd23 How

The babies will drink too.

ghjkl;’