Yom haatzmaut and sefira

To user176 and simcha613

Logical arguments don’t work on brainwashed and braindead cult followers. When I arrived at YWN in 2023 Lubavichers were spouting their Rebbe garbage. One of them “proved” that the Rebbe was Moshiach, and a Novi by citing a Psak signed by over a 100 Chabad Rabbis who added that Schneersohn is still alive. You’re both good guys, what do you hope to accomplish? Those NK supporters are way past the 50th level of Tumah.

@simcha613

I don’t care about opinions. There is a Torah that defines what is kosher.

Regardless, what I wrote was intentional: “anyone who identifies as a kosher jew”.

I am not sure what type of “dati leumi” you are, the one who knows he’s a kofer and the one who doesn’t.

The Torah is not a secret, it’s content is widely accessible and taught around the world.

@simcah613, you asked a reasonable question. If you meant it sincerely, I don’t believe I can do it justice within the confines of CR (as mentioned above) and you should please reach out to me directly.

shkoiach. beautifully written

@user176

Previously you asked me and ignored my answer to the question of what is “zionism”:
here https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/the-antizionism-amongst-religious-jews-has-no-legitimate-detractors/page/6#post-2529457

To repeat the answer for readers hear about what is Zionism. one i’ve copied from another resource:

What is Zionism

Zionism is a secular anti-Judaism movement started in the 19th century to disconnect the Jewish community from religious Judaism and replace it with a secular new identity, called the “Hebrew” or ”Israeli”. Core to Zionism is the belief in ”self-determination” vs the Jewish belief in ”divine determination” where the success and safety of Jews is directly linked to our adherence to the Torah and keeping the mitzvos.

Practically, zionism today means the state of Israel has a right to exist, which is counter to the Torah which says that Jews do not have the right to have their own state (in any form) as there is a divine decree that we live as citizens amongst the non-Jewish nations.

tldr

Zionism means the State of Israel has a right to exist and that Jews have a right to self determination.

There are simpler, and even more to the point definitions, but they are only accessible if you have already accepted and learnt only Torah sources and rejected zionism.

Now to answer the current question of “what is a zionist?” it would be who believes that the State of Israel has a right to exist and that Jews have a right to self determination.

> a secular anti-Judaism movement started in the 19th century to disconnect the Jewish community from religious Judaism and replace it with a secular new identity, called the “Hebrew” or ”Israeli”.

putting aside weird views of the posters, this sounds like a genuinely held belief. Of course, it does not cover “dati leumi” except thru “guilt by association” but it also projects it’s own fears (of 100+ years ago) on the reality. Early Zs, especially Herzl were not in the position to disconnect Jews from Judaism, he lived in the already totally assimilated society in Vienna, not in Lita. He tried to disassociated Jews from their non-Jewish neighbors whom he found to be dangerous, using the tools he had.

The view above is like blaming a person who jumped into the water to save someone (to borrow on Chofetz Chaim’s metaphor about need to save so many Yidde) that he did not feed them and taught them Torah. He saved their lives so they can do the rest.

simcha613 said:

“Yes, many secular Zionists wanted
Jewish nationalism to replace Torah.
That ideology is anti-Torah.

But Religious Zionism explicitly rejects that.

Religious Zionists believe Eretz Yisrael,
Jewish sovereignty, mitzvos hateluyos ba’aretz,
the army, and national life must be
connected to Torah and halacha — NOT replace them.

So why should the kefirah of secular Zionists
be projected onto Religious Zionists who reject that kefirah?”
__________________________________________
MY RESPONSE:

Thank you very much for your correct logic.

I had similar thoughts for a long time,
but I did not know how to express them in words.

May G*D reward you for speaking the truth.

Tragically, UJM & HaKatan DO NOT CARE
about your logic, no matter how true it is,
and no matter how correct it is.

They care ONLY about what their favorite Rabbis said,
and they intentionally ignore everything else,
which they mistakenly believe to be a great act of righteousness.

One day, the misguided piety (and stubbornness)
of UJM & HaKatan & those like them will cause
a Jewish Civil War, or another Holocaust, or both.

Millions of Jewish lives will be lost.
Countless Jews will be taken hostage and tortured and raped.
Countless Jews will be captured and forced to convert to Islam.
Countless Jews will be stateless & homeless refugees.
Billions of dollars worth of Jewish property will be lost.
Countless synagogues & yeshivahs will be destroyed.

That is the endgame of the policies endorsed by UJM & HaKatan.

user > your problem really has nothing to do with early Zionism it has to do with supporting Israels right to exist because you believe it is against the Torah

but his argument is not genuine – as you are saying, there was initial opposition to the anti-religious groups, and Zionists were “closest to home” comparing to communists and bundists, so that opposition created the arguments, and now several generation later these arguments are being taught to children who then post it here.